Talk:List of Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign primary endorsements

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Separate article for state legislators[edit]

Almost all of the state legislators listed are from New Hampshire, but I know that there are more that haven't been added. As the list continues to grow, it seems distracting from the point of the article and warrants its own page in accordance with Wikipedia's guidelines for splitting.

This was done for Biden's 2020 endorsements (see: the main article and the state legislators in their own article). I wanted to hear other thoughts before separating the section into its own article. Maybe it is too early to make this change. Opinions? Biznaga22 (talk) 23:24, 11 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, especially if we can find a source that directly sources more state legislative endorsements, but I would wait until he is officially the nominee - this article is only for primary endorsements and I don't think we need to split it here. ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 00:13, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Undid removal of Putin from list[edit]

If absence of the exact word "endorsement" in the source is to disqualify it from this list, then half of the items would need to be taken off. When asked directly, he unambiguously said he prefers Biden and it has been covered as such by multiple high quality sources. Give a high quality source published after these comments were made that explicitly refutes them as a political endorsement- debate regarding the motives of the endorsement is not relevant to this list. Shitbag5576 (talk) 04:33, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

However given Biden kept having anti-Putin statements, almost certain he would reject the ensorsement, So it could later become like this
Mhaot (talk) 07:57, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Afterall pretty similar to why Trump rejected Taliban's Endorsement in the List of Donald Trump 2020 presidential campaign political endorsements
Mhaot (talk) 08:00, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The Taliban endorsement of Trump was much more overt and direct then Putin's comments about Biden (Believe they even had a vote on it). Tipsyfishing (talk) 17:58, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Trump's Taliban endorsement was rejected by Trump campaign communications director Tim Murtaugh, and that's who one would think to be the right person for doing so. Putin's Biden endorsement was "rejected" by US national security spokesman John Kirby, but there is no legal way for John Kirby to make official statements on behalf of the Biden campaign. It is of course within his discretion to strongly reject the interference in US elections by Olaf Scholz and Vladimir Putin, but this cannot in any way be understood as a statement from the Biden campaign. Biden isn't even allowed to coordinate his campaign with his super pacs, let alone state officials like John Kirby. 41.66.96.9 (talk) 03:27, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I am not sure. But I suggest Putin endorsement should be kept in his endorsement until Joe officially rejects it. NBS13QRS (talk) 22:53, 15 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The New York Times, BBC, and Politico EU have all indicated skepticism about the endorsement of Biden. And given his previous statements that appeared to indicate an endorsement of Trump, and the fact that those statements were not walked back, it’s still unclear who he’s endorsing. And as Mhaot said above, it’s extremely unlikely Biden accepts the endorsement. Given the plausible uncertainty, I think it’s best that we disregard Putin endorsements for now. ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 15:49, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
New York Times, BBC, and Politico can neither speak for Biden, nor for Putin. But the interview with Putin, published (among others) on kremlin.ru, is clear: Putin wants Biden to stay in the oval office. That's it. And that's what we call an endorsement. We can of course speculate about his motives, we can speculate if he likes Biden more than Trump, but that doesn't change anything. After all Putin says he want's an experienced Person like Biden to be President. 41.66.96.9 (talk) 03:40, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
No one is disputing what Putin said. While primary sources are great, Wikipedia likes secondary sources, and if secondary sources say it is not an endorsement, it won't be listed here as an endorsement. However, not all secondary sources say that, hence the uncertainty. ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 05:16, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is absolutely not an endorsement. Elsewise, would Trump have been listed as endorsing Bernie in the '20 primary? He told people to vote for him in the primary after all, and openly stated that he wanted him to win the nom.
Considering that Putin has said similar things to Trump, the way that it was said etc. We should take the approach of it not being an endorsement. It's too uncertain, and we had this similar discussion on the Trump endorsement page. Tipsyfishing (talk) 16:30, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
However, this article is about primary endorsements. Reading the source, Putin made his comment in response to a direct question of "Would you prefer Trump or Biden?". That statement had nothing to do with the democratic primary. Zsrocks04 (talk) 19:08, 15 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Biden officials have stated they had rejected Putin's Endorsement similar to how Trump rejected the endorsement from Taliban in 2020
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/video/2024/feb/15/putin-should-stay-out-of-our-elections-us-reacts-to-putin-preference-for-biden-video Mhaot (talk) 02:11, 16 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
This isn't a primary endorsement and does not really meet the criteria of WP:ENDORSE: Lists of endorsements should only include endorsements which are specifically articulated as "endorsements". This sort of comment falls far short of that standard. Removing this as there is not a consensus for inclusion from this discussion. Elli (talk | contribs) 00:02, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Full support. Tipsyfishing (talk) 05:58, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
After all Biden said "Putin and his thugs" in response from Navalny's death indicating Putin's so called "endorsement" might just be invalidated
https://www.deccanherald.com/world/joe-biden-says-putin-and-his-thugs-caused-navalnys-death-2898740 Mhaot (talk) 10:12, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
So it should not be included or at least crossed off like the one listed below
Vladimir Putin, President of Russia (1999–2008, 2012–present), Prime Minister of Russia (2008-2012) (United Russia)  (endorsement rejected by Biden) Mhaot (talk) 10:14, 18 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It is correct that Putin might revert his endorsement after listening to Biden talking like a thug. But that's Putin's decision, not yours. 41.66.96.9 (talk) 21:17, 19 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But in 2020, Taliban endorsed Trump but Trump rejected that endorsement which means the endorsement is invalidated 2406:3400:31F:AFD0:4C96:CBF2:2780:2BF (talk) 00:07, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But in 2024 Putin endorsed Biden, and Biden did NOT reject it, which means the endorsement is NOT invalidated (even if we play the silly game of rejection and invalidation). What's your point? 41.66.96.9 (talk) 03:12, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

As things stand I can't find any reference to Biden or his campaign rejecting it. While it's likely he would reject it as things stand we must adhere to Wikipedia:CRYSTALBALL so as things stand in my opinion the fact that Putin has endorsed Biden should be mentioned in the same way any other endorsement is listed. We also need consistency as until Putin endorsed Biden there was a mention that Putin had endorsed Trump on List of Donald Trump 2024 presidential campaign primary endorsements and there is still a mention of Medvedev endorsing Trump both of which the references were very sketchy and didn't mention explicit endorsements. C. 22468 Talk to me 00:34, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

There’s this, but it’s murky whether or not Kirby counts as the Biden campaign. I think the entire thing is really sketchy and complicated, and it would be better to devote a small paragraph to it in Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign as opposed to try to cover all of its intricacies on this page. ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 03:31, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]
There is no legal way for US national security spokesman John Kirby to make official statements on behalf of the Biden campaign. It is of course within his discretion to strongly reject the interference in US elections by Olaf Scholz and Vladimir Putin, but this cannot in any way be understood as a statement from the Biden campaign. Biden isn't even allowed to coordinate his campaign with his super pacs, let alone state officials like John Kirby. 41.66.96.33 (talk) 04:27, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ Yousafzai, Sami (October 11, 2020). "The Taliban on Trump: "We hope he will win the election" and withdraw U.S. troops". CBS News. Archived from the original on November 18, 2020. Retrieved November 21, 2020.

Hatch Act[edit]

I think it'd be beneficial to come to an agreement in regards to the Hatch Act. While I could be wrong, it seems like we could count current appointed federal officials as having endorsed candidates due to this allowance within the Hatch Act:

"What is permitted outside the workplace and off duty? Employees may: Express opinions about candidates and issues. If the expression is political activity, however – i.e., activity directed at the success or failure of a political party, candidate for partisan political office, or partisan political group – then the expression is not permitted while the employee is on duty, in any federal room or building, while wearing a uniform or official insignia, or using any federally owned or leased vehicle."

So, them saying they'd endorse while in the white house or federal building would be in violation, however, at their own home or separate from their work, It should not be a violation+allowed.

We had plenty of current (at the time) federal officials in the 2020 Trump endorsement list using this understanding.

Unless I'm missing something, this is how we apply appointed federal officials. Tipsyfishing (talk) 16:02, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Per the Office of Special Counsel, most federal executive branch officials may:
  • “Campaign for or against candidates in partisan elections
  • Make campaign speeches for candidates in partisan elections
  • Distribute campaign literature in partisan elections
  • Volunteer to work on a partisan political campaign
  • Express opinions about candidates and issues” while not on the job. [1]
I think it’s clear we can include current executive branch employees’ endorsements if they make their endorsements while off the job. ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 16:38, 20 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Edit warring[edit]

There is an edit war, or at least a substantial disagreement on content, that is currently brewing on this page. In order to avoid escalating this to ANI, I would like to attempt to negotiate a truce.

Hatch Act

As per the conversation above, it's pretty clear that the Hatch Act does not fully ban sitting cabinet members from making endorsements. Therefore, endorsements like Buttigeg, Victoria Reggie Kennedy, etc. can be listed.

Fox News

I added additional sources to several endorsements where the only citation was a Fox News article, since Wikipedia does not generally accept Fox News as a reliable source on politics. However, I could not find another source for Tim Kaine or Jack Reed's endorsements. We could either keep those endorsements with the current [better source needed] tag, or remove them entirely.

Bill Clinton

The only sources I can find with relation to Clinton endorsing Biden are the fact that he is doing a fundraiser with him. While this likely means he endorses him, that's not enough to include him on this page.

Vladimir Putin

Putin stated a preference for Biden over Trump, which is not a primary endorsement. We could include him in a general election article, subject to further discussion. I created a draft at Draft:List of Joe Biden 2024 presidential campaign endorsements. However, I think we should not include him on this page.

Olaf Scholz

The cited source differs between saying that Scholz a preference for Biden over Trump and saying Scholz endorses Biden for re-election. It's a little less clear than Putin. I don't really have an opinion on this, but I would strongly advise the IP to read WP:POINT.

Hope this helps!

Pinging @Tipsyfishing and @41.66.96.50 @41.66.96.9 @41.66.98.46 @41.66.96.54 @199.8.13.120 ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 05:14, 21 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Agree to all the above.
With the Tim Kaine and Jack Reed endorsement, the fox news page cites a daily caller article, which in of itself is not accepted as a reliable source, all others are tangential. Leave it with the tag instead full removal IMO. Tipsyfishing (talk) 01:16, 22 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Dean Phillips drops out of Democratic primary - Endorses Pres. Biden[edit]

Title.

Article: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2024-election/dean-phillips-ends-presidential-campaign-rcna142091

Thanks for reading, and thank you in advance for editing this in. 2601:601:A400:D4A0:543A:B2C1:C8B3:61B8 (talk) 18:39, 6 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]

 Already done ~Politicdude (About me, talk, contribs) 00:11, 12 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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