Talk:Lisa (Japanese musician, born 1987)

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Requested move[edit]

The following discussion is an archived discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the move request was: not moved. RM was raised to test consensus on new name, and we now have a strong policy-based consensus supporting it (nice to have such a clear result on a tricky issue for a change, well done team). Andrewa (talk) 16:06, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

LiSA (Japanese musician, born 1987) →? – (target page will depend upon consensus: possibilities are LiSA or Risa Oribe) First, the new title is rather long to type. Second, the article was moved without consensus. I know it's good to be bold, but I think it would have been better if there was some sort of discussion first before moving. Not moving it back because I want to see if there's consensus to keep this at the new title, or revert to the old one. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 22:52, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Per the discussion below, I've added her real name as one of the possible target titles. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:41, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose move to LiSA. When I was fixing disambiguation links for Lisa after finding a disambiguation issue with Lisa (film), I found that there are several singers/musicians who are from Japan that go by the pseudonym "Lisa" in all forms and styles. Due to the fact that there are several stylizations of the word "Lisa" that these singers use, it would be very easy to perform a typo and go to the wrong "Lisa", including this one. Also, the other "Lisa singers" don't seem to hold enough notoriety to be the WP:PRIMARYTOPIC over the others. So, I renamed the titles per WP:NCPDAB, and this move was one of them. So, without further ado, that's why I "oppose". Steel1943 (talk) 23:02, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Note: however, if anyone has any alternate ideas for a disambiguator for this title that would distinguish it from all of the other "Lisa singer/musician" titles besides the capitalization stylization of the word "Lisa", I'm open to ideas. Steel1943 (talk) 23:13, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
For example, maybe Risa Oribe or Love is Same All (both redirects to this title)? Steel1943 (talk) 23:16, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose just simply Lisa (Japanese musician) or Lisa (Japanese singer) are possible alternate titles than the current long one (of the two options I gave, I prefer Lisa (Japanese singer) for consistency with many similar anime music singers who go by one name, such as Lia (singer)). However, LiSA is mainly known only to otaku (Japanese anime fans), so most of those who do know her know only her and not any of the other singers that go by the name Lisa and thus are rather unlikely to make a mistake. Another thing is that the other language Wikipedia articles that have an article on her use just "LiSA" without any disambiguation (except for the French Wikipedia, which instead uses her real name, Risa Oribe). And speaking of her real name, the final option, as you mentioned earlier, is to simply move the article to her real name, Risa Oribe (which is already a redirect to here), not to Love is Same All which is rarely used, even by her. Honestly, I would prefer the last option if the article can't say at just simply LiSA. Whatever the outcome, of course, will depend upon consensus. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:24, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
From the above mentioned options, I cannot agree with Lisa (Japanese singer) or Lisa (Japanese musician); as stated above, there is more than one article that could describe listed on the disambiguation page (including Lisa Komine, who has went by the pseudonym "lisa" in the past), so thus, I had made both of those titles redirect towards the disambiguation page Lisa. I guess Risa Oribe may be a viable option, since it seems to be the WP:COMMONNAME for this subject on at least one other Wikipedia. Steel1943 (talk) 23:35, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The article title should have "LiSA" in it regardless, IMO. Using her real name in place of her more-widely known stage name would go against WP:UCN and using "LiSA" would be in line with WP:NCA. Most people (at least prior to coming to this article) don't even know LiSA's real name, anyway. As for the move discussion, since there is another Japanese singer named Lisa already, Lisa (Japanese musician, born 1974), I guess the current name of this article is adequate, albeit long. However, since LiSA is an acronym, was there a need to move the article at all? No one else is known by the acronym LiSA except for the subject of this article. And I really have never seen anyone refer to the singer as "Love is Same All", so I would not agree with using that as the article's title, either.--十八 23:45, 22 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Juhachi: I get your point about wanting to keep the "LiSA" part of the title intact; I'm under the same belief for the most part. However, "LiSA" for encyclopedic purposes isn't really an "acronym" for pronunciation purposes, but rather a "capitalization stylization" of the pseudonym, considering (and correct me if I'm wrong, please) that the singer most likely pronounces "LiSA" as the name "Lisa" and not spelled out like "El-eye-ess-ae". If that were the case, I could see potential to keep "LiSA" as a distinct case from the rest of the "Lisa Japanese singer"s, but as it stands, it really just looks like an alternate capitalization of the word "Lisa", and that could refer to anyone on the list. In fact, the "Lisa" that you referenced in your comment above, Lisa (Japanese musician, born 1974), I believe per the article, the stylization of "Lisa" for her pseudonym is "LISA" (all caps). Steel1943 (talk) 00:08, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Steel1943: Well, I don't think it matters how LiSA is pronounced as long as it's an acronym. NASA is not at National Aeronautics and Space Administration; NATO is not at North Atlantic Treaty Organization; and yet similarly, both of those acronyms are pronounced as words (not "N.A.S.A" or "N.A.T.O". The same thing applies to LiSA.--十八 00:31, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Juhachi: Agreed, but the examples you have presented are the primary topics for organizations, not a person's name. In fact, I saw that Nasa is also a redirect to NASA, which makes sense. However, I don't see how the analogy applies to this case, considering that the "LiSA" acronym is stylized in a fashion that makes it a standard English-sounding name that can be used by other people. For that reason, the answer for the regarding the capitalization stylization of "LiSA" seems to be a grey area, and probably best to let the readers decide what topic they are looking for if they are spelling a human name with the intention of finding a person who has that name, regardless of the capitalization they type. Steel1943 (talk) 00:45, 23 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

The above was so well argued that I thought of adding it as an example at WP:NCPDAB, but the situation is already well covered there. Andrewa (talk) 16:14, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]

Andrewa, I actually agree that an example such as this should be added there, considering that WP:NCPDAB seems to not include information about capitalization stylization of names as disambiguators. Granted, though, it may need consensus formed on the Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (people) page, but it seems rather cut and dry to me. Steel1943 (talk) 16:23, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
Unconvinced... WP:NCPDAB seems clear to me as is, and I'm wary of instruction creep, there's so much out there already to read (see WP:creed#bold). But raise it by all means on WT:Naming conventions (people), that's the place for it. Andrewa (talk) 17:15, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
@Andrewa: Fair enough. As the saying goes: If it ain't broke, don't fix it! Steel1943 (talk) 17:22, 30 April 2014 (UTC)[reply]
The "Lisa" listing is only going to get more crowded in the future. As long as the sub-description lists her as as Japanese singer, readers will be able to find her. The birth year specification has the potential to get tricky, too. LiSA (Risa Oribe) will future-proof her page against confusion, or any future name shift like (example) T.M.Revolution going back to his original name. So I'm in support of this, too.--GimmeChoco44 (talk) 13:55, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]
It's already crowded, but Lisa is the common name for the performer for most of her career. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:23, 7 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewing
This review is transcluded from Talk:LiSA (Japanese musician, born 1987)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Tintor2 (talk · contribs) 00:42, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]


Hello, I Tintor2 (talk) 00:42, 20 November 2015 (UTC), will be reviewing this article. It is looking pretty good but there are some issues I would like to see fixed.[reply]

  • The lead is composed entirely of one paragraph. It could be expanded with some of her influences.
  • Another about the lead is that it mentions too many animes. Just mentioning the first or another which is very notable could be good.
  • The Discography section is almost empty.
  • It is also a bit unsourced. I would recommend expanding it or leaving the link in another section.

Anyways, good work.

@Tintor2: The Discography section is empty because it was split off. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 01:59, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I think Tintor2 means that Letters to U, Lover"s"mile, Landspace, Launcher, etc don't have articles at all. Technically a good article review should focus on the page itself and not on additional pages, but having a pop musician GA article without album/song pages feels very odd to me. --Prosperosity (talk) 02:28, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Prosperosity: Someone could make them though. Not me as I'm not exactly experienced when it comes to writing articles on music releases. Arguably the only red link above that could have an article is Launcher since it has a review (which I also used in LiSA's page). As for the lede, I'll be working on it in a bit. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:59, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Since they're all charted releases that were mentioned in major music press, they pass WP:MUS very easily. The only releases by her which would be contested on notability grounds are....."ID" as it hasn't charted/been reviewed yet, and maybe "Orpheus (Kimi to Kanaderu Ashita e no Uta)" if the article wasn't that great. --Prosperosity (talk) 03:09, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
@Prosperosity: Well, it would be cool if you could create articles for each of her albums and singles. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:24, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
I already have a huge backlog, sorry! --Prosperosity (talk) 04:07, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Prosperosity: @Tintor2: The lede has been revised somewhat, being given more meat and being split into two paragraphs. What do you think? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 03:24, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Prosperosity: @Narutolovehinata5: Sorry for the long delay. There I moved a sentence from the discography article to serve as an intro to it. Does it look good?Tintor2 (talk) 17:01, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

@Tintor2:. Fine with me. Any more suggestions/fixes that have to be done? If not, is it a pass? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 17:12, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]
Passed. Congrats.Tintor2 (talk) 17:29, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the discography listing on the main page, I have added the studio albums, as comparable to Beyonce and other music artists that have split-off discographies. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:20, 20 November 2015 (UTC)[reply]

Musical style and influences[edit]

Should the article's Musical style and influences section be restored to what it was at this edit, or should it remain in its current state? Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 11:11, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]

We discussed this over on Discord chat for a bit. As I said there, I think a lot of the content that was removed should be restored. I do think some paragraphs should be trimmed or even removed. For example, in the old version of the article, I think the last paragraph of "Musical styles" should probably be removed outright, and the two paragraphs that precede it should be significantly trimmed and probably rewritten. There is indeed a lot of use of interviews, but that's fine. Just try to describe LiSA moreso than copying how she describes her own songs. That being said, I think the first paragraph of the "Career" section was vastly better before Drmies trimmed it, so it goes both ways. Lastly, and probably trivially, I think "After moving to Tokyo" looks better than simply "In Tokyo". ~Mable (chat) 11:21, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I, uhm, was just reminded that WP:CANVAS may apply to my comment above, so... I'm not sure what to do about that. I'd like to hear more opinions, anyway... ~Mable (chat) 11:23, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
Discord and other back-channels should not be used for determining WP article content, or other matters here. We have talk pages for a reason. See also WP:FACTION, WP:SHAMCON, WP:MEAT, WP:NOT#ADVOCACY, etc., etc. Transparency is important here, and trust erodes when there's any perception of a clique exerting control over article content. I've seen pretty nasty messes arise from that, despite good intentions.  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  13:16, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I am fully aware about the transparency issues. I hope my two cents came through without being too distorted, and I won't be involved in this discussion much further. I hope such a thing won't happen again, of course. ~Mable (chat) 13:31, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with tweaking the paragraphs based on the original. The influences paragraph is fine, but it'd be good to know what kind of voice she has when she sings as with Kelly Clarkson#Voice and musical style and Taylor Swift#Artistry, the latter of which covers influences, musical style, and song writing. Does she have a vast vocal range or use a lot of production in her singles? The stuff about the colors is more of a theme and could go under the songwriting paragraph. Describing her own songs is okay but it can be detailed in the appropriate album or single articles if available. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 16:59, 30 November 2017 (UTC)[reply]
I tend to agree with most of what Maplestrip amd AngusWOOF are saying, other than an over-reliance on, or over-reporting of the details of, interview materials isn't appropriate. WP:ABOUTSELF and WP:PRIMARYSOURCE have pretty strict limits in actual practice. It's good for who an artists' claimed influences have been, and what their artistic intent is – but the latter should be well within WP:NOT#INDISCRIMINATE bounds; WP isn't a blog for expounding on an artists' inspirations, or the trivial details of particular works. Self-sourcing is not usuable for musical styles, genre classifications, vocal range (especially in the age of Autotune!), etc.; that's all analysis – which must come from independent, reliable sources. PS: I agree "After moving to Tokyo" is more informative (in at least two ways).  — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ >ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ<  13:16, 20 December 2017 (UTC)[reply]

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What is LiSA (an acronym of Love is Same All)?[edit]

Hello. I'm japanese and please forgive my poor English.

「better known by her stage name LiSA (an acronym of Love is Same All),」 This article's acronym is very lies. Where is reference and evidence? 「Love is Same all」 is old band name Including LiSA and this band is dissolving from solo debut. Not an acronym. 「an acronym」 is a big lies and mistake and it is an insult to her.

This page for link[1] show live performers and the old band that it is not related to the current LiSA activities. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Pkmckr (talk • contribs) 08:58, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

True root is Risa(Her Name) to LiSA (Musician Name) and LiSA to Love is Same All (old band) and LiSA to Love is Smile Always (Live Stage Name) and other to [L... i... S... A...]. Her stage name is not 「Same All」. Everything is a mistake.

For more information is Japanese Wikipedia[2]. Please do not spread the lie because it is English that many Japanese fans can not read. Japanese fans are disappointed with many lies for English article that was neglected for many years.

Thanks. Pkmckr (talk) 09:03, 9 May 2018 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ https://web.archive.org/web/20160304202636/http://www.sonymusic.co.jp/sd/NADESHIKO/event/artist06.html
  2. ^ https://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/LiSA

Pkmckr, it's more of a backronym like how BoA used her name for Beat of Angel. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 15:13, 12 February 2019 (UTC)[reply]


Please see Juhachi's comment https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=LiSA_(Japanese_musician,_born_1987)&oldid=745870201 regarding use of Smile Always. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 20:19, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

I'm not actually sure whether its an acronym or a backronym. The cite just states that she (referred to as LiSA here) formed the band Love is Same All with members of Parking Out, an indie punk band at the time, in 2008. Before this, she was using her real name Risa Oribe in the band Chucky, starting in 2005. So at some point, she either created her stage name LiSA and then created the band name Love is Same All as a backronym, or when they made the name of the band, she used its acronym as her stage name. Considering that LiSA is essentially just a romanized version of her name Risa, the former is probably more likely, making it a backronym instead of an acronym, but as I said, that Sony Music cite doesn't state this outright.--十八 20:32, 6 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

The performer's name is stylized as LiSA. The former band name (Love is Same All) and tour names (Live is Smile Always) derive from the artist name, but the actual performer name stands alone. Unless there's a clear citation/interview/website to justify it, the acronym/backronym cannot be definitively stated. In the interest of avoiding further back and forth between overly excited editors (currently using all caps to make their points instead of actual citations), let's remove the acronym section until a definitive source can be identified. --GimmeChoco44 (talk) 19:27, 14 May 2019 (UTC)[reply]

LiSA listed at Redirects for discussion[edit]

An editor has asked for a discussion to address the redirect LiSA. Please participate in the redirect discussion if you wish to do so. –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 22:33, 11 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 12 July 2019[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

No consensus. After nearly a month, one relist and what could have been three relists, see no general agreement below among good arguments both in support of removing the parenthetical disambiguation and opposed to it. As is usual with no-consensus outcomes, editors can strengthen their args and try again in a few months to garner consensus for this change. Other titles were suggested below, and there is no prejudice if editors want to try to garner consensus for one or more of those. Kudos to editors for your input, and Happy Publishing! (nac by page mover) Paine Ellsworth, ed. put'r there  13:09, 10 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]

LiSA (Japanese musician, born 1987) → LiSA – Per the reasons spelled out here, I think it's time for a more WP:PRECISE title. LiSA is an awfully specific stylization of Lisa (disambiguation). As I proposed there, we could simply install a hatnote for any person who was confused. WP:NATURALDIS should be preferred to the current disambiguation we have now. Though, it was recently pointed out to me that this article is the example used for WP:SINGERDAB, but I'm taking my chances anyways!
Typing LiSA into the search bar is awfully different than typing in LISA, Lisa, or lisa. Unlike the others, this title can't be plausibly confused with anything else. Any links that result from typos can fixed as they already would (because mainspace links would be linking to a disamb. page anyways and need correcting). Hope that addresses most of the concerns, but I know Steel1943 will make a more compelling case against this than I probably could preemptively muster. lol
Cheers! –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 00:48, 12 July 2019 (UTC)--Relisting. © Tbhotch™ (en-2.5). 18:27, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]

  • (Basically copied from Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2019 July 11#LiSA): Oppose and/or Move to Risa Oribe per WP:NATURALDIS (Updated. Steel1943 (talk) 18:13, 19 July 2019 (UTC)) since per the discussion above, for English speakers, none of the subjects at Lisa#People are rather notable in their own right, and don't really qualify to have any specific version/capitalization of "Lisa" refer to any specific subject (or "singer" or "Japanese singer" subject) since it is confusing. As shown in Lisa#People, singers who use this mononym are French of Japanese (3 Japanese singers), and all three Japanese singers all use different capitalizations in their stylization: LISA, lisa, and LiSA. For English speakers (since this is the English Wikipedia), it potentially does our readers a disservice to direct them to one specific subject when they themselves probably don't even know which one they are trying to locate. Steel1943 (talk) 01:37, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    For what it's worth, I would support moving the article to Lisa (Japanese musician, born 1987) ("s" and "a" lowercase) per the question/concern brought up by 89.153.64.16 (talk · contribs · WHOIS), or even Risa Oribe per WP:NATURALDIS, though it may not be the WP:COMMONNAME. Steel1943 (talk) 23:24, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @Steel1943: I'll take a hard pass on moving to Lisa (Japanese musician, born 1987) (not supported by WP:RS). Risa Oribe is my second choice, but moving to LiSA is by far my first choice since that is the WP:COMMONNAME, WP:NATURALDIS, and (as Colin M pointed out) WP:DIFFCAPS. Thank gosh a user smarter than me showed up to support this lol –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 00:02, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per Steel1943's reasoning. Other acronyms that could be confused would be LISA Academy, which expands to Little Scholars of Arkansas, but uses the all caps stylization. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 02:16, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • I don't see any evidence that that particular institution is commonly referred to as LiSA with a lowercase 'i'. Colin M (talk) 04:03, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • The school doesn't use it, but since the 1974 Lisa had used that stylization, that's enough to confuse readers. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 18:37, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:DIFFCAPS. I agree with nominator's reasoning: if someone types this very specific capitalization into the search bar, it's extremely likely that they're looking for this article. The parenthetical disambiguator is unnecessary. Colin M (talk) 04:02, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:DIFFCAPS. Any confusion can be solved by hatnotes.ZXCVBNM (TALK) 10:31, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Question Why are we using the stylized version of her name? Because of the later-applied backronym? --89.153.64.16 (talk) 19:39, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • The short answer is because that's how a majority of independent reliable sources write it (see WP:TITLETM). As for why she chose to use that stylization in the first place, I have no idea. Colin M (talk) 20:18, 12 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • @Colin M: Per the article, it is an acronym for her original band, "Love is Same All". Steel1943 (talk) 18:29, 13 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Poor English sources. Most sources are in Japanese which isn't indicative of the stylism in English. How does Billboard describe her? In ictu oculi (talk) 07:50, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Japanese Singer LiSA Announces New 'Double-A' CD Single, Watch J-Pop Singer LiSA's New Video for Anime Theme, 'ADAMAS' Colin M (talk) 11:48, 15 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nominator and Colin M. As the unusual capitalisation is sufficient in itself to disambiguate, including the (three!) superfluous qualifiers goes against WP:Article titles policy on naturalness, precision and conciseness. Opera hat (talk) 16:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    • ...This statement goes against established policies and, in fact, assumes the opposite of what these policies state. In fact, did you even look at the previous move request? Steel1943 (talk) 18:17, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • Could you clarify which specific policies you're referring to? The first policy you cite in your comments in that RM is WP:PRIMARYTOPIC. I fail to se e how that's relevant here given that there are no other entities referred to as 'LiSA' which would compete with this topic for primacy. I and a few other editors have brought up WP:DIFFCAPS as a relevant policy in this situation. Do you not think it applies here? Colin M (talk) 18:32, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
        • I do not think that the subject having their name stylized as "LiSA" is enough to differentiate themselves independent from all other "Japanese musician" or even "musician" topics listed at Lisa#People for the reasons I've stated in my original "oppose" comment; when it comes to mononymous people named "Lisa" in that section, there is a "lisa", a "LISA", and a "Lisa" ... which is why I don't see caps differentiation being helpful in this case since there is confusion introduced in the fact that Wikipedia does have articles for topics with so many variations of capitalization for the word "Lisa". (In other words, in this case, I see the wording of WP:DIFFCAPS opposing moving this subject to LiSA ... which is why at this point, given the current discussion, I'd support moving this article to Risa Oribe as sort of a middle ground.) Steel1943 (talk) 19:15, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • She is not known under her name Risa Oribe. That would be like moving Lady Gaga to Stefani Germanotta just because someone else shares her stagename.--十八 20:57, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
            • @Juhachi: I recall us discussing this in the previous discussion ... wow, 5 years ago. I agree with you, and am only supporting that option as a secondary option since I don't support the proposed move; of course, my preference is to retain the status quo. Steel1943 (talk) 21:57, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
          • OK, so here's what WP:DIFFCAPS says: The general approach is that whatever readers might type in the search box, they are guided as swiftly as possible to the topic they might reasonably be expected to be looking for, by such disambiguation techniques as hatnotes and/or disambiguation pages. When such navigation aids are in place, small details are usually sufficient to distinguish topics, e.g. MAVEN vs. Maven; Airplane vs. Airplane!; etc. If someone types "lisa" into the search box, they could be looking for anything, so it's quite right they get a disambiguation page. If someone goes to the bother of typing L, I, Shift-and-hold, S, A, you can be pretty certain they're looking for the subject of this article, so that's what they should expect to get. In the extremely unlikely event that someone types that unusual capitalisation without looking for this person, a hatnote can direct them to the disambiguation page. "When such navigation aids are in place, small details are usually sufficient to distinguish topics". I really can't see how that can be read any other way. Opera hat (talk) 23:35, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
      • From the relevant policy, WP:Naming criteria:
      • Naturalness – The title is one that readers are likely to look or search for and that editors would naturally use to link to the article from other articles. Such a title usually conveys what the subject is actually called in English. No-one is likely to search for or naturally link to "Lisa Japanese musician born 1987", a totally unnatural combination of terms.
      • Precision – The title unambiguously identifies the article's subject and distinguishes it from other subjects. No-one else spells their stage name with this combination of capitals, so "LiSA" as a title is unambiguous.
      • Conciseness – The title is no longer than necessary to identify the article's subject and distinguish it from other subjects. Even if you don't accept WP:DIFFCAPS, the current title is far longer than it needs to be: there is no need to include "Japanese" when "(musician, born 1987)" would be sufficient. WP:ATDAB: According to the above-mentioned precision criterion, when a more detailed title is necessary to distinguish an article topic from another, use only as much additional detail as necessary. For example, it would be redundant to title an article "Queen (rock band)", as Queen (band) is precise enough to distinguish the rock band from other uses of the term "Queen". In fact there are no other mononymous people called Lisa in Category:1987 births so you probably wouldn't even need the "musician", either. Opera hat (talk) 23:58, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. I'd love to hear what victor falk, Andrewa, and Narutolovehinata5 have to say on this move request. –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 22:54, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I'm rather indifferent over this whole manner to be honest. But if I had to choose, I think this LiSA should have precedence over the other Japanese LiSA (who, according to Oricon, only seemed to have a single release). If anything, because there is far more coverage for the 1987 LiSA than the other one, then there could probably at be reason for this to be the main topic (in fact, I think these discussions would have all been moot if only the other LiSA didn't exist). Just noting for the record that on Japanese Wikipedia, this LiSA is titled there without disambiguation. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 23:41, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
I thought the other Japanese musician goes by LISA? –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 23:46, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
Huh? There are more than one Japanese Lisas that go by LiSA? AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 23:51, 19 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
This person apparently, someone who only released one single in 1993. The other LiSA, I think doesn't actually go by the "LiSA" capitalization and I'm pretty sure those searching for "LiSA" specifically are looking for this one. Narutolovehinata5 tccsdnew 02:12, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
FYI that is the Lisa of m-flo (she used "LiSA" for from 1993-4 [1]). --Prosperosity (talk) 02:44, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
D'oh, that's Lisa (Japanese musician, born 1974), and "Out of Cry" is discussed in that article. Not a one-off then. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 02:52, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support the move. Our policies are neither terribly consistent nor helpful on this, but LiSA is a quirky enough capitalisation that I think it's a good article title so IAR if need be, and provided we leave the redir from the current title I can see no damage from the move. Most readers will probably arrive here from the DAB Lisa anyway, and that's a good result too in my opinion (but I confess that's quite controversial at present). Andrewa (talk) 01:00, 20 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as a stylization that would be confusing for readers. TonyBallioni (talk) 05:28, 21 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per Andrewa. Highly peculiar stylization, sufficiently supported in reliable sources. -- King of ♥ ♦ ♣ ♠ 01:42, 30 July 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose – this kind of smalldifferences/stylization adds nothing but ambiguity. Dicklyon (talk) 03:23, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
That's what hatnotes are for. Using WP:SMALLDETAILS to distinguish between similarly-named subjects is part of WP:Article titles policy. Opera hat (talk) 18:46, 2 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose relying on styling for disambiguation. "I think it's time for a more WP:PRECISE title" means the nominators doesn't know what PRECISE means, I think he means CONCISE. "Typing LiSA into the search bar is awfully different than typing in LISA, Lisa, or lisa" is an odd thing to say given that nearly all search engines are case insensitive, all send me to [Lisa (Thai singer)]]. The nomination reads like an intentional joke. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 06:49, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    @SmokeyJoe: I meant concise... words are hard. –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 07:00, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Oh good, thanks. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 07:05, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Also, I just caught this: preferred pronoun is they; if you don't mind. By search bar, I meant the internal one. Whenever I type "LiSA" into that specific area, I always get taken to LiSA [not [Lisa (Thai singer)]]]. I assure you this nomination is pretty serious to me. I wouldn't intentionally waste people's time like that otherwise. (edit conflict) –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 07:12, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    By "search bar", do you mean the Wikipedia Go box that looks like a search box? Do you know that this is not a search function, but a title match go box? The hovertext reads "Go to a page with this exact name if it exists". If you want the Wikipedia internal search, press the magnifying glass symbol with nothing in the go box, that will take you to the internal search engine. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 23:30, 6 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    In my defence, the code for the div literally gives it the id "p-search" and is literally given the property: role="search". ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
    Either way, we've gotten off track. –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 02:51, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    It looks like a search box, quacks like a search box, and is called a "search box" in WP:SEARCH (and in Help:Navigation). Colin M (talk) 03:14, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
    Colin, it's all there at Help:Searching#Search_box. It's explicit in monobook, hidden in the default skin, if you put something in the "Search Box" it takes you to the exact title match, with some preference adjustable (Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-searchoptions) basic options. This is the "Go Box" behaviour, it is not a search engine. It looks like a search box, but it is a fake search box. I don't know who is responsible for it, but I think it is irresponsible, and it is very unfortunate that people think article titles should be adjusted to suit the primitive Go Box behaviours. --SmokeyJoe (talk) 04:38, 7 August 2019 (UTC)[reply]
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a move review. No further edits should be made to this section.

Requested move 11 November 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Moved. – robertsky (talk) 14:00, 18 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]


LiSA (Japanese musician, born 1987) → Lisa (Japanese musician, born 1987) – per MOS:JAPAN the stylized capitalization doesn't belong in the name of the article -- the stylization is explained in the lead; -- a relevant example on Wikipedia would be The Gazette (band) or Dir En Grey. GimmeChoco44 (talk) 01:51, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Support per nom.--Ortizesp (talk) 18:08, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. Shwcz (talk) 21:28, 11 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment. Technically this is either an acronym (or a backronym) rather than a simple stylization, and to that extent it is not comparable to the other examples given in the request above. In the case of acronyms we can use partial capitalization. However, the "i", which stands for "is", would normally be capped in that case. Dekimasuよ! 15:34, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per MOS:TMCAPS: use the style that most closely resembles standard English text formatting and capitalization rules. That the derivation may be attributed to an acronym is immaterial since the artist is not also known as Love is Same All - ie there is a distinction between derivation and usage. Cinderella157 (talk) 23:49, 14 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per nom. --GimmeChoco44 (talk) 01:05, 15 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Why not Risa Oribe (move)?[edit]

What is the main reason for the name of the article not be Risa Oribe? The only reason I see it's because not everyone know her like Risa Oribe. However redirects can solve it, can't it? If not, what about "Risa Oribe (LiSA)"? JosterFen (talk) 13:48, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

@JosterFen, the 2019 Requested move discussion above contains some rationales for current setup. Primarily, no one pressed on the point that Risa Oribe is the WP:COMMONNAME or for natural disambiguation. Risa Oribe is currently a redirect to this article, so that helps in discoverability of the page via "Risa Oribe". We also do not typically use put secondary/primary names in parenthesis as it is used for disambiguating topics of similar names. – robertsky (talk) 14:23, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Robertsky thanks for the answer, I'm new in editing articles in Wikipedia. The links are very helpful, thanks again! JosterFen (talk) 15:00, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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