Talk:David Archuleta/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Archive 4

BLP and Notability

Resolved. subject has more than enough sources to denote notability, most have not been added yet but plenty have. Benji boi 02:50, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I added a tag to this article regarding the notability of the subject. I see no evidence that this person is notable for anything other than being on American Idol. It is a long-standing practice not to give contestants their own page on Wikipedia unless and until they do something notable. See WP:BLP1E regarding people notable for only one event. —BradV 20:10, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Well and as I've said elsewhere, even the Idol project generally doesn't make articles for people until they've reached the finals unless they are previously notable. And remember folks. BLP applies. Do NOT add unsourced information. It will be removed. --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 05:42, 22 February 2008 (UTC)

And I've removed the notability tag. The kid won Star Search. Corvus cornix_talk 03:45, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

Many many people won competitions on Star Search throughout the years. That doesn't always equal notability. It's not like Idol where there is just one winner a year. --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 05:33, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

DialIdol

Resolved. Only reliable sources can be used and there seems to be plenty. Benji boi 12:06, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Is not a reliable source. Look at this week, where almost half of the contestants showed up with no data. --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 01:48, 23 February 2008 (UTC)

"Look at this week, where almost half of the contestants showed up with no data." There is data, it's just not showing. Put your mouse on the '0', a little box will appear and show the data (score). For example, this week Luke Menard is shown with no data but put the mouse on the 0 and it shows his score as 2.391. Not that I mean to say DialIdol is relaiable, just wanted to correct this little misconcenption. Regards, Mindia 121.247.68.245 (talk) 17:57, 5 March 2008 (UTC)

I give up

Resolved. Article protection has been requested. Benji boi 20:20, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm guessing that this article is going to end up being completely fancruft and unreadable like the Sanjaya Malakar article is. So I think it's pointless to try to patrol it. I can just imagine how impossible it'll be once we're into the top 3 or 4. --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 08:57, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

If vandalism becomes too much we can always semi-protect the article to limit anon IPs. Benji boi 10:11, 4 March 2008 (UTC)

But

Resolved. Subject now a finalist as well. Benji boi 22:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Generally, unless it's a semi-finalist who is notable without American Idol, they do not get their own pages. This is a long standing policy. Since he didn't get an article until Idol came on for season 7, I'm not sure how he can be that notable. --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 03:52, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

-)

Let's give it a few weeks, based on prior Star Search win and critical response so far it's likely plenty of reliable sources will support an article. Benji boi 10:20, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

It seems like a strange policy -- the top American Idol winners are as entry-worthy as the many other minor celebrities listed elsewhere in Wikipedia.

I don't quite agree with that. If all they've done is become one of the top 20 they may or may not meet the notability requirements. Archuleta seems to have met them as well as having many sources so this article seems safe even if he got eliminated next round. Benji boi 09:13, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

If he is eliminated before the finals, he will no longer be considered notable. Of course, that's not going to happen. He has a huge built-in fanbase. --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 09:36, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Well, we can deal with it when we need to, no worries. p.s. Thank you for finding that Gnarls Barkley ref. Benji boi 12:05, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

Article protection - March 2008

Resolved. Article semi-protected for two weeks, if vandalism kicks in at that point we can re-request. Benji boi 22:03, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I'm a little fatigued by all the vandalism, does anyone else support semi-protection which would limit editing to only established registered users? Others could post to the talk page for changes. Benji boi 03:34, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I'd be all for it. He has a HUGE teenage fan base and he isn't going away anytime soon. --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 12:02, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

I've put in a request. Benji boi 20:19, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Sources?

Resolved. notability a non-issue that he made the finals. Benji boi 16:16, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Where are the sources implying his notability before American Idol came around? I doubt any Star Search or mySpace success would count (unless of course independantly covered) Gwynand (talk) 15:39, 20 February 2008 (UTC)

No idea. That's what I've been wondering. :) --Woohookitty^Woohoo! ]]) 18:32, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Here's a source then. Is this acceptable? Shapiros10 (talk) 21:59, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Google news has 40+ here Benji boi 10:22, 25 February 2008 (UTC)

From the article page: "On 5 March 2008, Archuleta's single "Imagine" reached #1 on iTunes' album chart, while "Shop Around" charted at #8." There is no source listed for this. Where did this information come from? Abinidi (talk) 03:06, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

Beats me, it was added by an anonymous user about a day ago. See revision. I can only assume it came from somewhere as here, but the iTunes Store Top 10 Albums doesn't keep track of dates, so it's not reliable. - Io Katai (talk) 03:30, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

It's from the Itunes' rankings page. I'm unsure how to see it without being in Itunes itself so if anyone is able to do that it would be helpful. Also even though they are actually singles they are called albums within the iTunes universe. Benji boi 03:32, 7 March 2008 (UTC)

He probably is, but...

Resolved. Reliable reference putting his religion in context of his singing found and added. Benji boi 19:25, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Being from Utah, their is a more than even chance that he's LDS (Mormon). But is there a reliable resource that verifies this? I couldn't find that info on the American Idol website, but I notice he's LDS according to one of his categories. — Frecklefσσt | Talk 20:53, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

See here or any other Utah news source. -Lөv ө l 21:06, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

I actually had a source in the article but it disappeared. Yes he's a member of LDS. In fact, there's a link out there that lists celebrity LDS members and he's in it. And it isn't a random list. It's from the church itself. --Woohookitty^Woohoo! 22:47, 27 February 2008 (UTC)

As we want to be careful when labelling anyone's religion let's make sure we have a reliable source that states this. I would hate for him to lose favor with folks over religious issues so we should also be clear if this is important to his notability. If he talks about it then fine. Otherwise the article should focus on his singing and items related to his notability. Benji boi 02:49, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

I've removed this one - <ref name="BCSD">{{cite web | title=BCSD - David Archuleta | publisher=The Boy Choir & Soloist Directory | date=January 1, 2004 | url =http://www.boysoloist.com/artist.asp?VID=743 | accessdate=2008-02-27}}</ref>. Anyone can add nearly anything to the website and it seems like it was copied from someone else's bio. The LDS site is better but I'd feel more comfortable removing it until we have a more neutral source. Arguably LDS benefits by promoting successful members as would any group. We don't have, as of yet, statements from the subject, his family or reliable sources that they are religious or even go to the church. Any thoughts?

I readded it because it sourced information that was not mentioned in the first. It's a biography webpage that takes its source from David Archuleta's old website, davidarchuleta.net. If you wish to contest the information, then cite the Internet Archive Wayback instead. - Io Katai (talk) 03:20, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Sorry but unreliable sources simply don't cut it. I've left the content, it really doesn't seem that controversial. The wayback machine for David's website is the way to go. But the boy choir directory isn't up to the standard of reliability. Benji boi 23:35, 28 February 2008 (UTC)

Good call, I've added the wayback links to his bio from several years ago. Benji boi 00:14, 29 February 2008 (UTC)

Now I'm confused. I checked the ref provided by Lөvel above (Deseret News) and it checks out. It is a newspaper and says he's LDS. That's not verifiable or reliable? — Frecklefσσt | Talk 16:58, 11 March 2008 (UTC)

I would caution about using it as it has little or nothing to do with his singing which is what he is notable for. If he mentions it in an interview or talks about how his faith or church-going is important then fine. Otherwise I would leave it for now. Benji boi 00:02, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

I agree with Benji. His faith is somewhat arbitrary in regards to his celebrity status as a singer. While we may have a source stating he is (and it appears to be a obscure Mormon blog), we should not be cherrypicking little pieces of info to include. If it's the kind of thing that is getting covered repeatedly my different news sources, or is the major topic of a reliable source, then maybe then we include it. Without that, it look's like we are researching ourselves. Gwynand (talk) 12:10, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

How about famousmormons.net or Buddy TV or TV Guide. It is mentioned that Brooke White is, on her page. David has also said he that is, in interviews on KSTU Fox 13 (there is currently no statement on My Fox Utah though) while Brooke hasn't -Lөv ө l 16:39, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Cha-ching! Ok, famousmormons.net is pretty useless as is Buddy TV which only reffed someone else...but TV Guide reffered to a LA Times article which refers to why he likely didn't sing the first verse of "Imagine" thus we can now add this as critical commentary. Benji boi 19:13, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Archies

Resolved. you have an entire reffed section now and I added the ref below. Banji boi 02:32, 27 March 2008 (UTC)

Hey, I just wanted to know if this page can have something mentioning the Archies (the way that the fans of David Archuleta call themselves). You can see this reference mostly at Americanidol.com. It's because I want to make an userbox that redirects here, but it needs to mention the Archies. --Arthur Benthos (talk) 17:12, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

I've put something about the Archies now in his page. You can delete it if you all think it doesn't belong there, or help me on spreading about his fandom. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Arthur Benthos (talk • contribs) 18:48, 13 March 2008 (UTC)

Here's a ref you can use. Benji boi 16:21, 19 March 2008 (UTC)

Dream Girls shouldn't be credited for "And I'm Telling You I'm Not Going"

Resolved. Dreamgirls is fabulous and so is David but the play is older than he. Banji boi 23:28, 26 March 2008 (UTC)

The song was originally by Jennifer Holiday (I think..), and how could it be credited if he performed it before the movie was even out? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.47.36.234 (talk) 15:43, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Dream Girls started out as a play, over 25 years ago. It is referencing that, not the movie.Gwynand (talk) 16:01, 20 March 2008 (UTC)

Jeff Archuleta

Interview with Davids Dad - [1]. 71.139.52.181 (talk) 01:39, 1 May 2008 (UTC)

Jeff's at it again. Reportedly banned from A.I. http://www.tmz.com/2008/05/09/archuletas-dad-banished-from-idol/ Worth the review and inclusion in the controversy section. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.249.63.153 (talk) 04:19, 10 May 2008 (UTC) Also, shouldn't be noted that Us Weekly and People are the type of blow-liquid-sunshine-up-your-ass type of P.R. damage control media sources, like 'Entertainment Tonight'? Jeff "clearing" up is just that-- spin.

We shouldn't throw mud at anyone here - let the sources speak. Jeff has been banned and we simply report it - let the reader decide the rest for themselves. 71.139.15.189 (talk) 22:40, 10 May 2008 (UTC)

Lock

Could someone please request a semi-lock on this page, it would benefit to all registered users in keeping the article free of vandalism and speed time improving/monitoring other Wikipedia articles. ---Your1727^{User talk:Your1727} 5:50 pm May 1, 2008 (UTC)

I think thats a ridiculous idea. --69.133.83.124 (talk) 21:15, 2 May 2008 (UTC)

You can request at Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for protection. 71.139.49.58 (talk) 02:01, 3 May 2008 (UTC)

Homosexuality

Resolved

– If a reliable source discusses this then submit it on the talk page for possible use. Banje boi 02:55, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

I completely understand that he may not be gay, but I thought it would be best to present the facts in the article, especially as it is definitely a controversy. Please discuss here before removing. It is well supported and referenced. Carter | Talk to me 12:25, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Well I was about to remove the whole section when an anon user did it for me. In general blogs and google hits are not acceptable reliable sources, Wikipedia:Reliable sources. For biographies of living people, Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons, is more strict than biographies of dead people. Per Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons#Reliable sources: "Material about living persons available solely in questionable sources or sources of dubious value should not be used, either as a source or as an external link (see above). Self-published books, zines, websites, and blogs[5] should never be used as a source for material about a living person, unless written or published by the subject of the article (see below)." Aspects (talk) 14:07, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

That being the case is there a way we can address this issue then? It is a big controversy and should be addressed. Carter | Talk to me 14:09, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

If it really is a big controversy, then numerous reliable sources would have reported it. The burden is on you to find the reliable sources if you want the information in the article. I doubt it is that big of a controversy when all of the blog entries are from February when the show first started airing. If it was really that big there would be more recent articles written about it. Aspects (talk) 14:13, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Please also remember he's a kid and is known for his singing, not his religion, not his father yelling at him and not his being gay or not. If it's confirmed he is actually gay then it will be headline news all over the world and there have been past gay American Idol singers so it will be reported if true. 71.139.14.94 (talk) 14:56, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Amen to that. As a homosexual myself, I believe that until confirmed, there shouldn't be mention of it at all. Wikipedia is for the facts and besides, there is more to people than gay or straight, so wait until you hear it from his lips or an official source. Do I believe he's gay? Perhaps. You never know, but kid's got enough pressure in his life, he does not need his sexual orientation to factor into it as well. Projectlongbeach (talk) 21:51, 11 May 2008 (UTC)

Yes I realize now in retrospect it was silly of me to include this information at all. Originally, I just felt that having seen it all over the internet like I had, that I would include it, but that was obviously a mistake. Carter | Talk to me 10:24, 24 May 2008 (UTC)

There is nothing wrong with being homosexual, yet David Archuleta is not, as he stated on Regis and Kelly that he would love to look for a girlfriend when he is not so busy. He also has discused a girlfriend in a somewhat gitty and exited way during American Idol interviews. User:Americanidol111

FYI, that neither confirms nor contradicts one being gay. Banje boi 02:54, 4 June 2008 (UTC)

Americanidol1111 those are blatant lies. He's NEVER said he's wanted a girlfriend. I can show you interviews where he's REJECTED the idea saying that he's either too young or his music career is in the way – all lame excuses in my opinion. For example, here is David (in one of MANY sources) being interviewed in which he rejects the idea of having a girl friend at about 3:25 into the clip: Morning Show with Mike and Juliet (Youtube). Again, there is a plethora of interviews in which he repeatedly announces this.

Moreover, there IS talk about his homosexuality and not just rumors written by some dubious source but actually discussed by American Idols and contestants. Here is David Cook being interviewed and asked about Archuleta's homosexuality: DJ asks Cook if Archuleta is gay (Youtube). Constantine talks about his suspicion of Archuleta’s homosexuality in this radio interview: Constantine slams David A. & Sanjaya (Youtube) starting the clip at 4:37. While this does not confirm any rumors of whether these allegations are true, these sources nevertheless show that clearly this it's an issue that is discussed in the media so much so that they even asked the American Idol celebrities THEMSELVES – and on audio no less. He also has a pet named Conditioner, shops at the mall since he simply loves shopping (according to his vocal coach), likes musicals and purse dogs and songs sung by sassy, black divas. But I'm sure this is just normal behavior for most 17 year old heterosexual males right?

It's obvious that with his Mormon background and demanding father that he's forced himself to become desexualized as a human being — offstage, he's a neutered Disney character to appeal to tween girls and preserve his values, lest any display of sexuality display the "wrong" type of sexuality. Regardless, this issue is far from "resolved" and I feel you should reconsider that disclaimer. Thank you. Poolerboy0077 (talk) 07:22, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

Let's pretend we're all adults here, and we can recognize what is relevant in a singer's article and what isn't. Gay or not doesn't change his talent or performances. Furthermore he hasn't made an issue of his sexuality so the issue is academically irrelevant. This isn't a gossip column. --MartinezMD (talk) 16:09, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

The argument isn't whether being gay affects a singer's career. The argument is whether there is information about his personal life or circulating gossip pertaining to it which is relevant in a wikipedia article. There's nothing immature about asking to add this. Was it immature to add Tom Cruise's wacky Scientology beliefs on his page? After all, what does his religion have to do with his acting? In the same vein, what is the controversy regarding Archuleta's father doing on this page? These, of course, are not the point. The point of a Wikipedia article with respect to an individual isn't to solely inform the readers about the person's career. All of you have made too many excuses just to avoid adding this section by presenting weak arguments and ad hominems. Poolerboy0077 (talk) 04:10, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Since he hasn't said he is gay, and it holds no relevance to his music career (which is currently the only reason he has an article on Wikipedia), you have to abide by the guidelines of BLP. Tom Cruise is not germaine to this article, but if he was, the arguement there is that he is an acknowledged Scientologist and is a strong proponent of Scientology, putting that topic in a totally different arena of scrutiny. Lastly, the section about the father is relevant because he controversially influenced some of the music and performances. Also, parental involvement can be relevant in an article about a minor. It may be appropriate to nix the section when Archuleta turns 18 in December.--MartinezMD (talk) 05:28, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

Controversy section

Please fix the last line It currently says - However, a May 2008 Associated Press article reported that Jeff Archuleta had his son add lyrics of another song into a rendition of Stand by Me, costing thousands of dollars in additional royalties, resulting in Jeff's being banned from remaining American Idol rehearsals and backstage.[32]
The source doesn't say how much extra the royalties were and it also only states he was banned from rehearsals not backstage itself - we shouldn't infer the rest. 71.139.45.206 (talk) 04:32, 13 May 2008 (UTC)

I also think that you should add the new information that David has said during his press week in NYC about his father. He said "my dad is a great guy, he's given me great advice but he has let me do my own thing" he said this on the CBS Early Show Show May 29th, 2008.

Also in reference to the "Stand By Me" lyric change David said "I heard that it was said that my dad made me do it but it wasn't even first suggested by him. It was when I was rehearsing with the people who help with the arrangements, I don't think they understood either. It was just a big misunderstanding. I just thought it was something cool to do, I didn't mean anything bad by it. They didn't even tell me there was anything wrong with it until the day after the performance." He said this on Star 94 radio in Atlanta May 29th, 2008.

CBS Morning Show Article: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/05/29/earlyshow/leisure/music/main4134585.shtml?source=search_story

Link for the radio interview: website: http://www.star94.com/shows/mm_index.cfm?show=mm direct link for audio clip: http://www.star94.com/dynamic/audio/David%20Archuletta.mp3 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jeter021992 (talk • contribs) 04:39, 2 June 2008 (UTC)

Archuleta's Picture

It's too common...We need to see Archie in action (like in a tour, or signing autographs (and smiling, or somthing)). That picture doesn't reflect him as a star and what a star does. Look for much better pictures like that.

Lambert's and Cook's are to be used as standards of quality (reference)* Ayyah tubby (talk) 03:33, 21 May 2009 (UTC)

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