Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Figure Skating/Archive 9

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Page split for Hanyu article

There is currently a discussion about a possible page split for the Hanyu biography article which is approaching 250Kb in size. All are invited to the discussion at the review page taking place at this time at his Talk page. ErnestKrause (talk) 14:27, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Revised standards and guidelines for result tables

I'm working on the List of career achievements by Yuzuru Hanyu, which has been nominated for featured list status and is now undergoing a detailed review.

All tables in that list article now satisfy the layout and accessibility guidelines from the manual of style:

• They have suitable captions and scope parameters for header columns and rows.
• The sorting feature is fully utilized.
• Tables with dates are sorted chronologically from top to bottom (oldest dates first).
• Multi-column headers in the middle of tables and nested tables are avoided.
• Scoring details are added as weblinks with hidden archive-links, so that the reference section is not flooded with competition protocols.

If the page gets the support for featured list status, it might make sense to use those tables as new standard for layout and style in other figure skating articles as well, especially new ones. I would volunteer to adjust tables in existing articles, if there is time and need.

@Figureskatingfan: It might be smart to add the guidelines and samples for tables (like the detailed results for bios pages) to your WP FS style page.

@Jasper Deng: I read the discussion above about merged pages for pairs and dance couples and agree with you that bios pages should be separate. However, in case of Virtue/Moir, who won a huge collection of medals, set many historic records and competed for many seasons, it might make sense to create a similar career achievement page for them together like the one for Hanyu, so that doubled sections on their bios pages like awards, records and detailed results can be moved there. What do you think? Henni147 (talk) 16:27, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

@Henni147: great work. I agree that the tables developed for this list and from the FLC should be adopted for all tables in figure skating bios, and that it's a good idea to add the guidelines and samples to the FS MOS. However, tables aren't my strong suit as an editor, so if you wrote something up I'll take a look at it. I know that you didn't ask me, but I'm okay with creating a list of Virtue and Moir's combined career achievements, like you've done for Hanyu. Actually, it might be a good idea to do the same thing, if appropriate and if the list would be large enough to warrant it, for other skaters' bios. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:25, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

@Figureskatingfan: Thanks for your quick response. That would be great, if you created the career achievement page for Virtue/Moir! However, I would wait with that work until Hanyu's page got the pass — to have a sample page that satisfies all latest quality standards. Then I would be willing to help you with the table formatting and linking all the protocols and archive links. That's a very tiring work, but worth the effort.

Footnote: I think, a separate career achievement page only makes sense for skaters who achieved at least 4 of these 5 criteria:

• competed at least two full Olympic cycles as a senior (8 seasons)
• won the career Golden Slam or Super Slam
• set multiple world records
• got some notable firsts
• received multiple important awards.

For other skaters I don't think that a separate achievement page is necessary.

I would add the section about table formatting to your WP FS style page. I'm familiar with all the guidelines now and it makes sense to do that as long as the memories are fresh. Henni147 (talk) 20:12, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

@Henni147: you're welcome. I will create the Virtue/Moir list, after Hanyu's list is passed and will definitely ask for your assistance. I agree with your criteria; this should be added to the FS MOS, of course. I'd add, though, that the skater should at least place at multiple Grand Prix competitions. Thanks for what you're doing for these articles; I think that it will make a difference towards our goals of improving as many articles, lists, and bios as possible before the 2022 Olympics. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 20:48, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Thanks :) I'm not very good with prose (English is my third language), but I'm experienced with statistics and know the IJS and SOV tables very well, so I will focus on the edit of tables and lists in skating articles.

PS: I'm in contact with Phantom Kabocha, who contributed many great recent pictures of Hanyu to Wiki Commons. The user thinks about joining WP and sharing more pictures of other skaters from this huge archive. It's an absolute treasure trove. Henni147 (talk) 21:15, 29 May 2021 (UTC)

Oh then we'd be the perfect team! My thing is content editing (I just finished my first year in graduate school in English literature), and well, I'm not so good at the stats and formatting and such. Both are needed, so now I know where to go for help. That's what we do here: we prop each other up to improve the quality of articles, and fill in where others lack in skills and experience. That's especially true about figure skating articles. Others who are also committed to improving figure skating articles can do the same and use us as resources. And oh-oh-oh! You so need to get your friend to contribute to Commons! That's another need we have, you know. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 02:43, 30 May 2021 (UTC)

Briana Pinzón - Help needed

Hello skating friends/fans. I am mostly a contributer to Norsk Bokmål wikipedia, and they have decided to nominate the mexican figure skater Briana Pinzón (Q11962266) for deletion (no:wp). Therefore I would like some help on spanish-languaged sources out there, if there are. Here is the only one I found online but I would guess there are more. Hopefully some would do a research about this figure skater/coach.

• Briana Pinzón : Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Best regards Migrant (talk – contribs) 18:02, 25 June 2021 (UTC)

@Migrant: Blogposts are usually to be taken with care as a source, but this one in English at least shows that the coach is noticed and acknowledged outside Mexico, which supports WP:NOTE. There is a discussion going on, where to draw the line between "sportsperson is notable enough for Wikipedia or not". If the athlete is not mentioned in any reliable secondary source such as newspapers or magazines, the page probably doesn't satisfy Wikipedia's notability requirements. Henni147 (talk) 11:31, 26 June 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your link and viewpoint, Henni147. Allthough, I was hoping for some scanned newspaper-article-links somewhere about this person/figure skater/figure skating coach. Because I find it hard to make good searches on english or other languages except for norwegian of course since I'm norwegian. Best regards Migrant (talk) 10:22, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

@Migrant: One of the ways that you can contribute to figure skating articles is to work on bios of skaters from the countries of the languages you speak. English is the only written language that I speak, so I don't feel comfortable working on bios of skaters from countries other than the U.S., Canada, and the UK. There's a big need for the creation and improvement of the bios of skaters from, for lack of a better phrase, non-English speaking countries. Henni147, for example, focuses on articles about Yuzuru Hanyu because they're comfortable with using Japanese-language sources. I unfortunately am not, which really limits the kinds of articles I can work on. So my suggestion is that you focus on articles about Norwegian skaters and events and use sources in Norwegian or in the languages you speak. That would be a big help and you'd be able to make a big contribution to this project and to figure skating articles. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 15:48, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Christine (Figureskatingfan), I consider this just as an advice or suggestion to what I should do and not really an answer to my request for help on the subject raised. Best regards Migrant (talk – contribs) 16:09, 27 June 2021 (UTC)

Cannabis and sports

New stub: Cannabis and sports. Any project members care to help expand? ---Another Believer _(Talk) 18:01, 8 July 2021 (UTC)

Help needed: Michelle Edgina Axille

I'm reviewing this draft Draft:Michelle Edgina Axille at AfC, umming and ahhing about notability (among other things). The sources cited are a bit borderline, so I wondered if anyone could take a look at this person's career achievements, and comment on whether there's anything in there which would make them inherently notable (I have a feeling not, but I'm certainly no expert). Thanks, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 08:43, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

I noted that Michelle Edgina Axille has no International Skating Union (ISU) profile. Also, the Bucharest Open 2021, where she won gold, is not an ISU competition. I think she might become notable in the future (she is 15 years old now), e.g., by becoming a national champion. But I don't see notability for Wikipedia today. --Kallichore (talk) 14:23, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

The problem with this bio isn't notability; it's the sources and its tone, as the explanations for its rejection state. According to WP:WikiProject Figure Skating/Notability#Criteria supporting notability, Axille competed twice at the Asian Open Figure Skating Trophy, an ISU-sanctioned competition (criteria #6) and a couple of Canadian regional competitions (#1 in the non-criteria section). About half of the sources are okay, but they're not formatted correctly. I also agree that the tone isn't encyclopedic enough. There are other issues, which are explained in the comments section of the draft. I suggest that you work on it more and follow the reviewers' suggestions. If you do that, it could have the potential to be a high-quality bio about a subject and an individual that could use the attention. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:20, 30 July 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, both. So if I'm reading this correctly, one of you says this person is notable; the other, that she isn't? Also, just to clarify, I'm not 'working on' this draft, I was reviewing it at AfC. Anyway, I've declined it for now, as there are all sorts of problems with it. Thanks, --DoubleGrazing (talk) 07:19, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

List-page for possible inclusions of several figure skaters

Hello I just noticed this list-article List of Olympic medalist families, hopefully someone cares to fill it up with figure skaters. Best regards Migrant (talk – contribs) 20:35, 2 August 2021 (UTC)

Pending proposal to declare NSPORTS (and NSKATE) an invalid argument at AfD

A new proposal is now pending to add language to NSPORT providing, among other things, that "meeting [NSPORTS or NSKATE] would not serve as a valid keep argument in a deletion discussion." If you have views on this proposal, one way or the other, please feel free to add your comments at Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Subproposal 1 (NSPORT). Cbl62 (talk) 18:00, 22 January 2022 (UTC)

Team competitions

I noticed that many pages give a "team result" and a "personal result" for team competitions (like here for Nathan Chen under "Team events"). I think it is clear what the "team result" is, but the "personal results" is not that obvious. In the Figure skating at the 2022 Winter Olympics – Team event Nathan Chen started in the short program (1st place) while Vincent Zhou started in the free program (3rd place) (results). Does it make sense to give a personal result here? --Kallichore (talk) 20:23, 7 February 2022 (UTC)

Mohawk renaming

Skate Canada has renamed the Mohawk turn and Choctaw turn to the C turn and S turn respectively. They stated that the reason is “Decolonizing terminology and improving equity, diversity, and inclusion”. The pages for the Mohawk and Choctaw turns don’t mention this at all. I think that this is a very important thing to add and if it is not added it may confuse some Canadian Wikipedia users who can’t find the article that they are looking for. Could someone with better editing skills than me please add this? I would but my editing skills aren’t very good and I don’t want to mess up such an important article.MidnightSooty (talk) 23:30, 11 February 2022 (UTC)MidnightSooty

User:MidnightSooty, all this would take is a little bit of research, which I encourage that you try and do. Believe me, it's impossible to "mess up" any Wikipedia article, since there are plenty of people around who would come behind you and correct any errors, as long as you demonstrate a good faith effort and back up these claims with a source. I've been working on articles about individual elements, but not C and S turns because I didn't think they were important enough, since they're not elements listed as required. This of course, demonstrates the ignorance about figure skating that I still have, despite working on these articles, that someone like you can mitigate, which is why we edit by consensus and by committee here. All that to say: please go ahead and add this important information to those articles and someone will help afterwards. I also wonder if we should go ahead and rename them, for the same reason Skate Canada has. Thanks. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 16:37, 13 February 2022 (UTC)

User script to detect unreliable sources

Main page: User:Headbomb/unreliable

I have (with the help of others) made a small user script to detect and highlight various links to unreliable sources and predatory journals. Some of you may already be familiar with it, given it is currently the 39th most imported script on Wikipedia. The idea is that it takes something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14. (John Smith "[https://www.deprecated.com/article Article of things]" ''Deprecated.com''. Accessed 2020-02-14.)

and turns it into something like

• John Smith "Article of things" Deprecated.com. Accessed 2020-02-14.

It will work on a variety of links, including those from {{cite web}}, {{cite journal}} and {{doi}}.

The script is mostly based on WP:RSPSOURCES, WP:NPPSG and WP:CITEWATCH and a good dose of common sense. I'm always expanding coverage and tweaking the script's logic, so general feedback and suggestions to expand coverage to other unreliable sources are always welcomed.

Do note that this is not a script to be mindlessly used, and several caveats apply. Details and instructions are available at User:Headbomb/unreliable. Questions, comments and requests can be made at User talk:Headbomb/unreliable.

- Headbomb {t · c · p · b}

This is a one time notice and can't be unsubscribed from. Delivered by: MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 16:01, 29 April 2022 (UTC)

ISU

As I see some editors of WIKI make parallel ISU opinion = consensus in the sport. But currently it is not. The consensus is a transient thing and it is lost. The strongest FS-women are at Russia, just a fact regardless what you think about the country. The situation changed and ISU does not want to be a manager of them any more. I make a parallel: if we have a popular artist and its PR-manager, and if the artist go, then after all the manager is nothing any more. If the strongest is not allowed to participate at championships declared as the World-level, then you get a special olympics, not a sport and ISU partialy loose its legitimity. Moreover, I see strange proposals to use military dictatorship as a precedent alike it was in 1948 while war-winners dictate to loosers. As for me, dictate does not fit wiki. PavelSI (talk) 16:49, 28 October 2022 (UTC) What do I want: WIKI should reflect global world situation, while ISU partially abstain. Achivements beyond ISU should to be listed (heaving a correct note to sign they are not ISU-verifyed).

Proof of the fact "strongest FS-women are at Russia". ISU Standings [1] (as of 24 february 2022). Since then ISU ignore russians. ISU positions in its own rank №№ 1,2,5,6,7 among the top-10 are baned. This mean ISU standings is not the global common scale now. Moreover, oficial standings were distorted previously due to quotas of 3 persons at one competition - most of russian girls have no competitions previous years and while there 5 persons in the top-10, they share the same 3 quotas. Current day stadings reflect nothing but a political motivated fiction. Purpose of wiki is to describe the world as is, without censorship. Describe sports over the worls. Aim is to use respectable experts, links and scales. ISU as the expert is compromised while it have political motivation. 3-rd party opinions are desirable. PavelSI (talk) 15:19, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

I find the key-words. Noncompetent and compromised. Compromised mean a person pretending to be a neutral judje to keep just one of the combating sides. Non competent mean not to obtain the global information. If some person or organisation does not look and not see the subject of its professional responsibility it become not competent. ISU is noncompetent and compromised. PavelSI (talk) 16:28, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

@PavelSI, if we were to include the records made at national championships for Russia, we'd have to include records from all national championships. Currently, it's the consensus of this project to only include records made at ISU sanctioned, international competitions, as stated here and at Talk:Figure skating jumps. Also at the current time, Russian skaters have been banned from all international competitions, so they aren't eligible to be included in the statistics here. I'm not going to waste my time debating with you the validity of the ISU, but I will spend my time reverting your attempts to bypass consensus due to your own political agendas. The end of result to that can only be your eventual ban from Wikipedia, so I strongly advise you to stop and accept consensus here. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 19:21, 31 October 2022 (UTC)

Our aim is to write a good article. This article priorities are not to propagate any regime or govenment. Jumps and only jumps. The main needed thing is to list jumps possible to execute by human beings. 4LO is possible. ISU in the article act just only as an expert. This expert is required by You and some editors being residents in countries preferred by the ISU. But ISU is not competent and compromised. It does not see the jump for political reasons so loose compenency. What about the ban. Not threaten me please by forced removal. PavelSI (talk) 00:37, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

The situation of ban can long for years. It is not a reason to stop the article renewal if the prefered by You expert is not competent to see facts. PavelSI (talk) 00:48, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

And - yes, You can add records from any national championships, if the article would be better having this info. Collect information, if you have it. Do article better. But I think You simply have no any information to add. PavelSI (talk) 00:52, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

And here is WIKI. Wiki is not only international, it is GLOBAL. And it is the primary consensus I see. Global WIKI mean to describe the whole world. ISU is not global now. PavelSI (talk) 01:53, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

There is a precedent of the roole: ISU sanctioned competition is not reqired if NO ISU competitions available: Axel Paulsen. There was no ISU at all. So as we see, Your position is fake: no true consensus about ISU, fake experts, threating by the WIKI administration's ban - while You promote not neutral point of view and You can be baned yourself. PavelSI (talk) 02:08, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Not only Axel if 1882 while ISU was not that time. To see the table, Bruce Mapes make 1T at 1920s. Not a competition, but the year is not defined, just a decade. Sonja Henie make 1A in 1920s, Cecilia Colledge 1930s. What is the garbage in the table? But I see, You not remove them. Why??? You remove one russian girl while there are much more information - year, competition, GOE, videos... Politix of double standarts, I see. PavelSI (talk) 03:54, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

I check your edits which you make for years and see - you position legends as the secure information. So it looks to be you are a fake expert too (alike ISU). Will you go to admins to ban me after that? PavelSI (talk) 06:42, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Wikimedia photos

I see a lot of photos are from someone called David W. Carmichael in commons. Has this person given permission to upload and use any photos, or do we need to ask for permission whenever we want to use a new photo of his? In general, what is the process to upload and use a photo as part of the wikimedia commons for figure skating? I skimmed the page, and I saw some people talking about self-uploads, but that's it. Editor120918756 (talk) 09:01, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

@Editor120918756, Carmichael, who has been generous in donating his photos for many years, isn't the only photographer whose images are used for WP figure skating articles, but his images are obviously some of the best, as evidenced by how many times we've chosen to use them. No we don't have to ask permission every time we use them, since he's uploaded them to Commons for anyone to use freely. I suggest that if you haven't already, go to Commons and to find out how to contribute and use images. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:12, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Oh, no, sorry if I wasn't clear. I meant, are we allowed to upload a new photograph of his from his website without asking? Or are we limited to what's present on Commons, if we don't ask? Editor120918756 (talk) 18:37, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

No problem. Yes you're limited to what's on Commons. I suppose you could ask him to either upload images from his webpage or offer to do it for him, though. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:50, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

@Figureskatingfan: How do I show I have permissions to upload from a photographer to upload? Not Carmichael as we were discussing here, but I was talking to someone unfamiliar with wikipedia.Editor120918756 (talk) 21:26, 15 February 2023 (UTC)

@Editor120918756, I suggest that you and/or the person you were talking to go here: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Welcome. You'll have to go there and read about how to contribute images and other media to Wikipedia. The upload wizard will lead you through all that, including how to get copyright permission. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 06:16, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Thank you!! I'll pass it on. Editor120918756 (talk) 07:53, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Thanks for the help! Editor120918756 (talk) 18:52, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Requesting an Assessment for this project

First off, I notice there's supposed to be a bot for this project, not sure how it works. Can someone point me to a resource to understand it? Second, how and where do I submit an article to be assessed as part of this project? Editor120918756 (talk) 09:10, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Hi again, @Editor120918756: I think the bot you're referring to is the bot that goes through all articles to add newly-accessed articles to the statistics tables of all Wikiprojects. It's just something that runs often. Here's info about article assessment: Wikipedia:Content assessment. If you want someone to access a potentially A, B, or C article, you can just ask someone, or you can also just do it yourself. If you want to have one accessed for GA, you have to submit it to GAN, although you can also ask another editor to access it for you. If you want an article assessed for FA, you have to submit it at FAC and go through that often arduous process. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:42, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Thank you! So I can ask someone who's a part of this project to assess an article? I don't think I understand how to do it myself, but I can learn it and do it later I guess. Editor120918756 (talk) 18:45, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Anyone can, just ask. If you ask me, I can't promise that it will be done quickly, though, since things are moderately busy for me right now. I suggest asking someone on the list of members on our project page who's still active. Best! Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:57, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Thanks for the help :) Editor120918756 (talk) 18:57, 29 October 2022 (UTC)

Requests for assessments, and help for GA status

Hi, I'd like someone to assess Jin Boyang, Sui Wenjing, and Shoma Uno. These three articles seem like they should B-class for figure skating, and I used Evad37/rater.js to see, and it rates them B-class with high probability. I'm still unfamiliar with assessments though, so would like someone else to do it. These three also seem mid-importance to me because of some of their contributions, or at least Wenjing should be (as should Han Cong).

@Artemisialufkin: and I are also working to bring Yuna Kim up to GA status, and I would appreciate some help with it, so please join us on Yuna's talk page if you're interested. I'll be moving on to Mao Asada after I'm done with Yuna! Editor120918756 (talk) 10:35, 30 October 2022 (UTC)

Anyone? @Figureskatingfan: could you pick up one of these? It's okay if you're slow, just sending you a request. I'll try to ask two other people for the remaining two. And please join us on Yuna Kim talk if you would like to help? Editor120918756 (talk) 15:59, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Oh! @Figureskatingfan: If I can request, can you do Jin's? There were some reverts based on unreliable sources because of Chinese media news outlets that'd been used on the page, and I redid a lot of it - so I'd love your assessment on it, because you seem to be a part of WikiProject Reliability. Would be great if you looked at the Talk page too, about the news sources. I'll find someone else for the other two. Editor120918756 (talk) 18:47, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

@Editor120918756, I'll take a look at those articles in the next few days. I'll go ahead and assess for B-class and see what else I can do to help out. Thanks for your patience, especially this week. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 21:52, 1 November 2022 (UTC)

Thanks, Christine! Editor120918756 (talk) 04:34, 2 November 2022 (UTC)

Reliable sources within Project Figure Skating

I was talking to figureskatingfan, and she told me goldenskate is technically unreliable, but considered reliable within this project. Does this also apply to things like Inside Skating, Absolute Skating, Skating China, et cetera? I think some interviews and information we will only be getting from these third party sources.

Maybe I missed the section suggesting what constitutes reliable for this project. I'd be grateful for a link, or if there isn't one yet, I'd be happy to participate in a brief discussion and contributing towards making a page for it. Editor120918756 (talk) 18:58, 11 November 2022 (UTC)

@Editor120918756 and everyone, the consensus about Golden Skate and other sources are in the project's Style Sheet; see Wikipedia:WikiProject Figure Skating/Manual of Style#Sources. We can add other sources as we deem them appropriate for this project, of course. Question: the WP policy on relible sources that that sources should be evaluated for relibility on a case-by-case basis. Should we add that to our style sheet? Personally, I think it'd be a good idea. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:26, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

@Figureskatingfan: I'd like to add sources like Inside Skating, Absolute Skating, publications from skating federations (I think Skating China would fall into this criteria), archives of IceNetwork.

Yes, what you suggest is a good idea. Editor120918756 (talk) 19:54, 12 November 2022 (UTC)

Template for sports biographies lacking sources containing significant coverage

The 2022 NSPORTS RfC added a requirement that all sports articles are required to have a source that contains significant coverage of the topic. To help identify sports articles that lack this I've created Template:No significant coverage (sports); please add it to any such articles that you encounter, and if you are looking for an article to improve the relevant categories may be useful. BilledMammal (talk) 13:01, 22 November 2022 (UTC)

Redlinks at World Junior Figure Skating Championships

Hello. I was wondering if anyone was interested in filling in the redlinks at World Junior Figure Skating Championships. There's redlinks of medalists in the singles, pairs and ice dancing competitions. It would be nice to see these redlinks filled, especially as the Mens and Ladies singles medalists are almost complete. These medalists pass WP:NSKATE as well. Thanks! MrLinkinPark333 (talk) 23:25, 17 December 2022 (UTC)

AfD related to ISU Junior Grand Prix & WP:NSKATE

The following discussion at Articles for Deletion may be of interest to members of this WikiProject: Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Sophia Baram Cielquiparle (talk) 10:22, 1 January 2023 (UTC)

Tara Lipinski 2nd FAC

Hello fellow figure skating fans, I have re-nominated Tara Lipinski for FAC. As I state in the nomination, I believe that this bio was more highly scrutinized during its first FAC. What I didn't say there and which I'll go on the record here, is that I believe that it was more highly scrutinized because of the same issues that plague bios about women and other female-centric bios and articles, and that it was due to the gender gap and systemic bias that we too have to handle as editors of articles about figure skaters, both male and female, and about the sport. So this bio needs lots of support to overcome those issues and get it passed to FAC, so please go there, do a fair review, and then give it your support. Thanks, and keep up the good work. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:35, 6 January 2023 (UTC)

Johnny Weir GAN

Hi again, related to the above post about Weir's friend and co-worker Lipinski, I have just nominated Johnny Weir for GAN. It only needs one reviewer, so if someone could review it, that would be great. Thanks, Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 00:22, 16 January 2023 (UTC)

I can tell you now that the tables on the Johnny Weir article does not meet Wikipedia's requirements for accessibility (per MOS:ACCESS & MOS:DTAB). Any GAN reviewer will tell you the same thing. I do not have time to work on them tonight, but I can modify them tomorrow after work so they are compliant. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:55, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

@Bgsu98, thanks for the heads up and for your willingness to tackle this review. I look forward to your feedback, which I'm sure will help improve this bio, one of the reasons we submit articles to GAN and other peer reviews. I will follow all your suggestions, within reason, even though tables aren't my strength. Best,

Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 03:43, 6 February 2023 (UTC)

Christine (Figureskatingfan) Okay, I have formatted the tables so they should now be compliant. If the GA reviewer has any issues, please let me know and I'll be happy to address them! Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:28, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Additionally, and this is just my opinion, I would expand the section about his time on Dancing with the Stars, and you can also include the fact that he was one of the judges on Skating with the Stars. Bgsu98 (Talk) 02:34, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

@Bgsu98, thanks so much for doing that for me. I was going to ask for help, anyway, because as I said, I suck at tables. A reviewer has just stepped up and will complete it soon. I was going to ask if I should expand the DWTS section; I'll wait and see what they say about it, although I'll make sure that I mention that there's been advice to do so. And I had totally forgotten about Skating with the Stars and I didn't find anything out there in the sources, so I'll go take care of that now. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 05:57, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

I actually looked at some other articles last night to see how they addressed DWTS, and what you have looks to be sufficient. 😃 Bgsu98 (Talk) 12:40, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Well, I'm all for not doing more work, but I remember looking at bios of people who had appeared on DWTS and saw at least one detailed description of their performances, but I don't remember who it was. My idea is to write up Weir's DTWS section like we write up descriptions of skaters' programs and competitions, if there's consensus that's something I should do. Personally, I think that's what should be done for all bios of DWTS contestants, but others might feel it's overkill and unnecessary. Again, we'll see what the GA reviewer thinks. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 17:13, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

Apolo Ohno is an athlete who participated on DWTS and his article is GAN, he mostly has a table for his 2 appearances to summarize the results.  oncamera  _{(talk page)} 17:22, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

@Oncamera, you're right; I should at least add a chart to Weir's bio like in Ohno's. Will do so shortly. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 18:29, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

The one I examined was Evan Lysacek and his DWTS bio was pretty sparse. Bgsu98 (Talk) 21:12, 7 February 2023 (UTC)

So I looked at the bios of all the DWTS winners and most of them includes the chart like in Ohno's. Two bios, Shawn Johnson and Donny Osmond, have more detailed descriptions of their performances, with Osmond's having the most detailed. I'll bring this discussion to the reviewer's attention. Christine (Figureskatingfan) (talk) 22:31, 7 February 2023 (UTC)