Wikipedia:Peer review/Chinese Indonesians/archive2

Chinese Indonesians

Previous peer review

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I'd like to bring this back to FAC (the main contributor has okayed it) and would like some external feedback and ideas for improvement.

Thanks, Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:07, 9 May 2012 (UTC)

• Ok, well, this article isn't going to peer review itself. This one might take me a while, but I'll try to do a full review.

Lead

• "Chinese Indonesians or Indonesian Chinese are Indonesians of Chinese – particularly Han Chinese – descent, who emigrated to Indonesia or the former Dutch East Indies colony both directly and through Maritime Southeast Asia." You might think about splitting the last six words into their own sentence.

• Done

• "Although economic collapse from the 1997 Asian financial crisis severely disrupted their business activities, " Is "economic collapse from" needed here?

• No. Trimmed

• "The basis of development of local Chinese society and culture can be based upon three pillars:" "can be" or "is"? Also, this is pretty nitpicky of me but "basis... based" may be a bit too repetitive.

• Changed.

• "These flourished during the period of Chinese nationalism in the final years of China's Qing Dynasty and through the Second Sino-Japanese War; however, differences in the object of nationalist sentiments brought about a split in the population, with one group supporting political reforms in mainland China while others sought improved status in local politics." You might split the "with one group..." off into its own sentence. Also, is "supporting" the best word here? Maybe "focusing on"?

• Changed

• "the pillars of ethnic Chinese identity were dismantled in favor of assimilation policies" Dismantled by whom? Mark Arsten (talk) 04:38, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• Changed

Identity

• The only thing of note I see here is some statements that make me wonder "when?", "Current ethnographic literature" & "Such treatment also persisted".

• I don't think "current" in this situation lends itself easily to the "as of" template. Any suggestions? The second one I've rephrased as the present tense. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 22:54, 16 May 2012 (UTC)

• How about something broader, like "Since the late 20th century, ethnographic literature..."?

• Not in the source. Could be since the 1960s, since Suharto began using the melting pot model, could be 1998, after the beginning of reformation.

• Ok, not a big deal.

Early interactions

• "The first recorded movement of people from China into Maritime Southeast Asia was the arrival of Mongol forces" This is basically Ok, but you might want to clarify that KK's forces weren't just Mongolians or something.

• As there is a Wikilink, I don't think it's necessary.

• "Chinese Muslim traders from the eastern coast of China arrived at the coastal towns of Indonesia and Malaysia in the early 15th century. " I wasn't aware that there were Chinese muslims in eastern china back then, interesting. (no action required).
• "Trade from the north was re-established when China legalized private trade in 1567 and began licensing 50 junks a year." Did the licensing occur in '67, as well?

• Yes. Clarified

• "Chinese traders boycotted Portuguese Malacca after it fell to the Portuguese in the 1511 Capture of Malacca, some Chinese in Java assisted in Muslim attempts to reconquer the city using ships." Comma splice here.

• Fixed

Colonial attitudes (1600–1900)

• "The Dutch contracted many of them..." Not sure "them" works here.

"these immigrants"?

Yeah, that would be good.

• " Short-term and renewable leases were later introduced as a temporary measure, but many Chinese remained on these lands upon expiration of their contracts and became squatters." How much later? Any more specific date we could use?

• I'll look for the article on Jstor.

• "In western Borneo the Chinese established their first major mining settlement in 1760 and ousted Dutch settlers and the local Malay princes, including establishing their own republic in the Lanfang Republic." Might want to split this into two sentences.

• Fixed

Divided nationalism (1900–1949)

• "A second stream was later formed by wealthy ethnic Chinese who were Dutch-educated." Dutch-educated as in dutch schools in Indonesia? Or were they from the Netherlands? Mark Arsten (talk) 16:20, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• The former, clarified.

Managing the "Chinese Problem" (1967–1998)

• "Anti-Chinese sentiment gathered intensity through the 1990s and major riots broke out in Situbondo (October 1996), Tasikmalaya (December 1996), and Rengasdengklok (January 1997). President Suharto gathered the most powerful businessmen—mostly Chinese Indonesians—in a nationally televised 1990 meeting at his private ranch, calling on them to contribute 25 percent of their shares to cooperatives. Commentators described the spectacle as "good theatre", as it only served to reinforce resentment and suspicion of the ethnic Chinese among the indigenous population." This paragraph seems to be out of chronological order.

• I see what Arsonal was doing here, but I think it is clearer the way I have it now.

• Not a big deal, but I see "in order to" a few places. Some FAC people dislike that (preferring to stick with just "to"). I don't mind it though.

• Trimmed anyways.

Literature

• Any other notable books by Chinese Indonesians that could be listed here?

• I'd much rather have that as a separate article. Note : "Claudine Salmon's 1981 book Literature in Malay by the Chinese of Indonesia: A Provisional Annotated Bibliography, lists over 3,000 works [by Chinese Indonesians]." Arsonal avoided giving specific names as it would be undue weight, and I agree.

• Ok then, that's fine.

Media

• "One exception was the showing of films from Hong Kong in Chinese—limited to ethnic Chinese districts and their surroundings—because of an agreement between importers and the film censor board." Was there a difference in how Cantonese and Mandarin were treated? Mark Arsten (talk) 17:20, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

• Ethnically, no. Hong Kong just had the larger cinema and better marketing (note that the exception was only because of negotiations between Hong Kong(ese?) businessmen and Indonesian politicians. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:33, 18 May 2012 (UTC)

Emigrant communities

• "Although these migrants possess a Chinese heritage, they often were not identified as such." Can it be sourced when they generally began to be identified as such?

• Still like that.

• Ok, looks good.

Society

• I think {{cquote}} is frowned upon in the MOS (WP:MOSQUOTE).

• Don't think I've run into that yet. What do they generally prefer?

• I believe that {{quote}} or <blockquote></blockquote> are preferred. Cquote does look better, not sure why it's deprecated. Mark Arsten (talk) 03:33, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• Changed. — Crisco 1492 (talk) 04:52, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

• Funny, I just saw this edit on a similar topic. Mark Arsten (talk) 15:35, 20 May 2012 (UTC)

Language

• "Though it is known that majority of Chinese living in East Java are able to speak local Javanese language fluently and as other Chinese speaking traditional all over Indonesia does" Not sure I follow here. Mark Arsten (talk) 18:29, 19 May 2012 (UTC)

• Nuked. That looks like it was added by another person, later, and is probably not supported by the source. Besides, the Chinese living in Central and Yogyakarta are just as fluent in Javanese.

Demographics

• "Estimates within the past decade" Might want to write out the decade here.

2000s.

• "...ethnic Chinese were reported as foreign citizens" Might want to add "living in Indonesia" after "Chinese"

• Agreed

• "The Chinese district of Medan, North Sumatra, in 1925." Doesn't look like a complete sentence here.

• How's this?

Gender and kinship

• "In the 21st century the conceptual differences of the two groups are slowly becoming outdated" Might want to name the two groups again here.

• Fixed.

Religion

• "Majority of the Chinese Indonesian today are Christians with Buddhism coming to 2nd as mostly possessed religion." Please tell me you didn't write this sentence :)

• No. Oh gosh, how did the GA review miss that. Nuked, as it seems to have been added by some SPA.

• "The first wave of conversions occurred in the 1950s and 1960s, in response to intolerance of Chinese culture," This is a bit vague, did they convert because they found Chinese culture to be intolerant, or were they not tolerant of Chinese culture? Mark Arsten (talk) 23:39, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

• "of" - "against"

Cuisine & Architecture

• Overall, these sections look good, my only question is about Cuisine. You mention that Pork is a staple of the Chinese diet. I would assume that most Muslim Indonesians wouldn't eat Pork (right?). So you might want to note that this is a distinctive difference in the two cuisines.

• Done.

• Off topic, but there was a reference desk thread a while back about whether Hermann Göring had heard of Nasi goreng, it was pretty funny. Mark Arsten (talk) 02:04, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Oh God... — Crisco 1492 (talk) 02:19, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

Economics

• "The top five conglomerates in Indonesia prior to the 1997 Asian financial crisis—the Salim Group, Astra International, the Sinar Mas Group, Gudang Garam, and the Lippo Group—were all owned by ethnic Chinese, with annual sales totaling Rp112 trillion (US$47 billion)." Which year is the 114 t figure from?

• It reads like that is from 1997. Can't think of a way to work it in elegantly.

Notes

• Why are there two Notes sections?

• Fixed

References

• You have a " Setiono 2007, " cited, but I only see a 2003 work by him in the bibliography. Mark Arsten (talk) 20:05, 22 May 2012 (UTC)

• Ah, right.