Wikipedia:Peer review/Chinese Indonesians/archive1

Chinese Indonesians

This peer review discussion has been closed.
I've listed this article for peer review because I would like to see this become a featured article after working on it for a good portion of the past year. Chinese Indonesians are an important ethnic group in Indonesia and are among the most studied Chinese diaspora communities in the world. The article is important to three large WikiProjects and has received a thorough copyedit from Chaosdruid, to whom I am very thankful. While there are a few outstanding issues left from the copyediting process, I believe the article is ready for scrutiny by more Wikipedia contributors. Finally, I ask that you overlook the Literature subsection for the time being as it was added by another contributor after the copyediting process was completed. I will revise and better define its scope prior to sending it to the featured article process.

Thanks, —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 18:14, 17 July 2011 (UTC)

Comment. The "Early interaction" section can perhaps benefit from a discussion of what went on in Palembang before Zheng He showed up there. Books usually just mention that Zheng He defeated the pirate leader Chen Zuyi (a red link, eh?) there; but Chen Zuyi, obviously, did not just materialize out of thin air. There is a brief discussion of that period in the Ming Bio Dictionary's article on Shi Jinqing (red link, too?); in particular, what Ma Huan wrote about Chen's life story. More recent and more extensive sources probably can be found as well. Google Books gives me this book, for example Cheng Ho and Islam in Southeast Asia, by Tan Ta Sen, Dasheng Chen; don't know how relevant it is. -- Vmenkov (talk) 03:30, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I feel that would be more appropriate for the articles on either Palembang or Zheng He. The subject of this article is primarily of Chinese Indonesians today and their general historical context. Getting caught up in certain details will detract from the main subject. thank you for that excellent source, though. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 16:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

• Comment Although the literature section requires a major overhaul, I must admit it would be very useful to have. The role of Chinese Indonesians in the development of the press in Indonesia, for example, cannot be understated. The peranakan literature (1880s - 1920s or so) played a large role in the development of Indonesian literature. Crisco 1492 (talk) 13:58, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I'll be adding things as I find them below:

1. "The Jakarta Post, which largely caters to expatriates and middle class Indonesians" - Doubt the italicized text is necessary.
2. Setiono notes that Chinese artifacts dating from roughly 1 BC have been found in Sumatra. Would this be pertinent enough to include in the article? (Source: Setiono, Benny G. (2008). Tionghoa dalam Pusaran Politik [Indonesia's Chinese Community under Political Turmoil]. Jakarta: TransMedia Pustaka. ISBN 979-799-052-4. Page 20.
3. The quote from Coppel may be better in the Identity section.
4. Pancasila quote: Wouldn't "The New Order's interpretation of Pancasila (visualized through this shield image) suppressed all discussions of a unique Chinese identity in favor of political stability?" be more accurate? Sukarno's government was a little more tolerant ethnically, at least at the start.

As a side note, a book has been published with many of Mely G. Tan's essays in it (both the Indonesian and English-language ones). I think it is Etnis Tionghoa di Indonesia: Kumpulan Tulisan but I forget. Some more information may be found there, and if I remember correctly there's an essay regarding Chinese Indonesian cuisine.

Hope this helps. Crisco 1492 (talk) 14:00, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

You will see that Mely Tan's book is already referenced, as shown on the list of secondary sources. This is the main source of the cuisine section.

1. I don't see this error. It renders properly with "The Jakarta Post" capitalized and the rest of the text not capitalized.
2. I'll have to see if this is mentioned in other sources as well. I'm sure new information about Chinese migration in general is found every day, so older sources (such as the one I'm using) may not have it.
3. I had considered that, but it would have little context compared to the latter section, where the quote sums up the paragraph about Chinese Indonesians repatriating to China quite well.
4. That seems unwieldy, but it's a good point. I'll see what I can do.

—Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 16:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

1. I was suggesting removing the text which largely caters to expatriates and middle class Indonesians near the bottom of the article, after The Jakarta Post. I fail to see how it is pertinent to the article. Sorry about the poor formatting.

4. Thanks.

Side note: Ah. Hope this makes FA. Crisco 1492 (talk) 16:41, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I believe the explanation suggests the class accessibility of these Chinese restaurants. Tan's article suggests that JP's readership indicates that restaurants on this list must of among the better quality ones. She further comments that although the Jakarta middle class was still small at the time, these restaurants still had enough market to remain profitable. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 16:53, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I don't consider it explicit, especially since papers like Kompas, which seem to have a rather general readership, still include reviews of places many people cannot afford. Crisco 1492 (talk) 23:05, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

I'm still having trouble figuring out how to reword the Pancasila caption. The wording you suggested seems to suggest that the shield was created during the New Order. It had, in fact, been in use since 1950. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 18:19, 19 July 2011 (UTC)

How about "Pancasila (visualized through this shield image) was interpreted by The New Order in a way that suppressed all discussions of a unique Chinese identity in favor of political stability" Crisco 1492 (talk) 03:27, 20 July 2011 (UTC)

Revised. Let me know if it doesn't work for you. —Arsonal (talk + contribs)— 09:19, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

A little wordy, but seems better to me. Good job! Crisco 1492 (talk) 09:30, 21 July 2011 (UTC)