Talk:Transport in India/Archive 2

osuruk

kabaca osuruk aslinda yellenmedir bi osurdum koy patladi yarrak yiyen bir fikradir senin anani sikerim wikipedi at yarragi

A quick yay before getting back to work

I have got 200 edits in this artice, agreed most of them were crap, but it's still a big number, so yay..... --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 18:59, 4 June 2009 (UTC)

Images

All right, here's an update on the status of images:

• Maharashtra : 3
• Delhi : 2
• Madhya Pradesh : 2
• Andhra Pradesh : 1
• Assam : 1
• Goa : 1
• Jammu and Kashmir : 1
• Karnataka : 1
• Rajasthan : 1
• Tamil Nadu : 1
• Uttar Pradesh : 1
• Uttarakhand : 1
• West Bengal : 1
• Maps, charts and unidentified locations : 5

Total : 22 images

I guess that's about as representative as it gets! Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 10:45, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

I don't think more is needed, this is technically a general article, not meant to show too much detail..--Rsrikanth05 (talk) 11:12, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

The pic Enthusiast added is a pic betw. the terminl bldg and the the plane, hence the buses. Is it appropriate, as it does NOT show any crowd whatsoever. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 13:56, 5 June 2009 (UTC)

Further..

I added info abt the Atal Sarige. I changed added some million brazillions to the page where possible, all bracketted, and I feel that is not on top of the list now. Also, I added two citation tags to the local transport section, I have a feeling tht the lines involved aren't really necessary.. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 17:11, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Is the info on Atal Sarige necessary here? It's a local initiative, and as such, I think should go onto the Bangalore Metropolitan Transport Corporation page rather than this one, in keeping with summary style. Also, I don't think the million brazillions ;-) are necessary, per WP:India conventions. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 17:56, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

I thoght it would be a good add seeing that it does show the changing face of trnasport in india... --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 18:12, 8 June 2009 (UTC)

Need consensus

There are some controversial and unreferenced sentences in Local Transport section. We need to build a consensus on what to on these. Here are my suggestions:

• "The roads in most cities are poorly maintained and full of potholes, while in villages they are frequently non-existent." - remove or replace by a sentence such as this: "During monsoon, road conditions in many cities and villages deteriorate considerably." We may not need a ref for this, but if found much better.
• "Traffic generally moves slowly, where traffic jams and accidents are very common" - remove. Traffic may be slow in some cities during some period in a day, but more generalization is not needed. Also, next sentence has a ref for road accidents, so no problem.
• A Reader's Digest study of traffic congestion in Asian cities ranked several Indian cities within the Top Ten for worst traffic. - OK, better if a ref can be found.
• On the contrary, newly developed highways and expressways are among the best in subcontinent. - remove as it will be difficult to prove a source that can substantiate this (not just claim)

Also, alternatively, some sentences on exact quality of roads with refs can be added here. What do you think?--GDibyendu (talk) 12:40, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

I agree about the point relating to uality of roads. As for the above 4, I think all the statements should be removed. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 15:36, 10 June 2009 (UTC)

A lot of that info looks like it's been taken from this article [1] (could be the other way round as well). Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 04:41, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I think that whole paragraph ought to be removed. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 10:55, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

There is a need to write the article from a neutral point of view. Why do you think that the whole paragraph should be removed? At least one sentence on road accident data is referenced. Other lines are also not blatant lies. Only issue is finding references to substantiate the generality. So much accidents happen not just because of reckless driving, road condition also comes into picture. --GDibyendu (talk) 11:21, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Whatever, buddy, you're the more experienced editor in this case so your statement is more valuable than mine. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 11:36, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

We need to present both negative and positive points with refs. Positive in this case is PMGSY, Golden Quadrilateral etc. But, we don't need to generalize too much: for example, Bangalore and Calcutta faces a lot of traffic jam, but same is not true all over India.--GDibyendu (talk) 13:24, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Every city on earth has traffic jams, India isn't the only country with Jams...--Rsrikanth05 (talk) 13:29, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

But, this is an article only on India.--GDibyendu (talk) 15:20, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

Exactly, that is my point. Is there even a neccessity to say that India has traffic jams? I mean, every city has it, nothing worth putting in an encyclopaedia... --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 15:30, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

OK. I get your point. Traffic jam was just an example to show that things does not need to be generalized. I was not suggesting that information on traffic jam should be included.--GDibyendu (talk) 15:35, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

I've deleted the first and last sentences, and provided references for the other two that were in contention. Please discuss further progress. I feel the article is ready for a GA nomination now. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 14:46, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

perfect, I seriously think you should go for GAN now. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 15:21, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

GAN

Now, we should go for WP:GAN. It may take a few months before someone hits the review though as already there is high backlog for Transport-related articles.--GDibyendu (talk) 14:43, 12 June 2009 (UTC)

I decided to be bold and nominate the article at GAN. It's a GA nominee now. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 04:10, 13 June 2009 (UTC)

Thanks a lot.. You know me, I aint that bold to go and nominate an article... or even contribute towards DYKs.... Regards,--Rsrikanth05 (talk) 08:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

We've achieved a significant amount of progress on this one now. I think this should be moved out of INCOTM tomorrow to let another take its place. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 14:50, 14 June 2009 (UTC)

Yep, I've already submitted a list of nominations and I'm hoping te selection is made soon. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 09:01, 15 June 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

Extended content

This review is transcluded from Talk:Transport in India/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review. Reviewing, will take a few days. Aditya α ß 14:20, 15 June 2009 (UTC) Thanks a lot. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 14:36, 15 June 2009 (UTC) I will be reviewing the version of the article that existed at the time I posted the above message. Subsequent changes will be ignored, until I post the full review. Aditya α ß 16:54, 15 June 2009 (UTC) No problem. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 17:33, 16 June 2009 (UTC) Preliminary thoughts I went through about half of the article last night and I see some major problems. Besides grammatical errors, there's a colossal number of unsourced statements. I'll list them out here so you can work on sourcing them. "Even today it is not uncommon for people in rural areas to commute several kilometers on foot every day."  Done removed as ref was not found.--GDibyendu (talk) 05:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC) "Palanquins or "palki" was one of the luxurious methods used by the rich and noblemen for travelling purposes. The word "Palki" came from the word 'Palanki'. The Portuguese called it "Palan Queem" and the Britishers "Palan Queen". In Sanskrit it is called as "palki". In Tamil it is called as "Pallakku". This was primarily used in the olden days to carry the deity or idol of the god (many temples have sculptures of god being carried in a palki). Later on during 15th century Noblemen were known to use it for transport. Girls and ladies from rich families were ferried in palki and were escorted by males riding on horses. During the fifteenth century many Muslim families used it. Gradually many landlords and people with royalty also started using it."  Done "They can still be seen in many of the cities and villages. In the recent years some of the cities have banned the movement of bullock carts and other slow moving vehicles on the main roads during daytime."  Done "From the early part of the century the bicycle rickshaw became popular and are still used in rural India. They are bigger than a tricycle where two people sit on an elevated seat at the back and a person pedals from the front. In urban areas they have been mostly superseded by auto rickshaws."  Done "A significant prejudice against bicycle riding for transport exists in some segments of the population, generally stemming from the status symbol aspect of the motor vehicle. In India, the word "bike" generally refers to motorcycle, and "cycle" refers to bicycle." Done "Local transport is predominantly by road, with the exception of the four metropolitan cities of Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, and Kolkata where train transport is more popular. Most Indian cities are connected to surrounding towns by buses or trains. The vast national rail network also enables farmers to transport their agricultural produce to larger towns, where they get better prices."  Done "An auto rickshaw (auto or rickshaw or tempo in popular parlance) is a three wheeler vehicle for hire. Typically, it has no doors or seat-belts. Generally it is painted in yellow, green or black colour and has a black, yellow or green canopy on the top. An auto rickshaw is generally characterized by a tin/iron body resting on three small wheels (one in front, two at the rear), a small cabin for the driver in the front and seating for up to three passengers in the rear. Design of an auto varies considerably from place to place. Often, drivers add an extra plank on the seat to accommodate more passengers. Though autos are mostly equipped with a meter that displays fare, hiring an auto often involves bargaining with the driver."  Done The paragraph on taxis is completely unsourced.  Done And about this: "No rail link exists with either China or Sri Lanka." No rail link is possible with Sri Lanka. It's an island. Ever heard of the Channel tunnel? :-) Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 06:41, 18 June 2009 (UTC) Japan has inter-island rail and so does NYC although it's only a small tunnel YellowMonkey (cricket calendar poll!) paid editing=POV 06:59, 18 June 2009 (UTC) Ever heard of a railway bridge? --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 09:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC) Here is some info on this.--GDibyendu (talk) 15:35, 18 June 2009 (UTC) CAn't that be used as a ref? --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 15:02, 23 June 2009 (UTC) I've been looking for refs to support statements for the taxi section. And I wouldn't call the the entire section un-referenced, it does have one source, albeit not relating to taxis. As for the statement, "Local transport is predominantly by road, with the exception of the four metropolitan cities of Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, and Kolkata where train transport is more popular."..... These four cities have a century old railway line which passes thru the entire city and thus acts a local line. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 09:09, 18 June 2009 (UTC) About the rail connection to Sri Lanka, I stand corrected. About the other statements, you really should source them (or remove them). Moving on. The lead of the article has issues, but that will have to wait until you've sourced/removed the unsourced statements, as the lead is a summary of the article. Grammatical stuff: " This was primarily used in the olden days to carry the deity or idol of the god " Should be a deity, and a god.  Done "The advent of the British saw drastic improvements in the horse carriages which were used for transport since early days." Link advent to the British colonial system in India.  Done Linked to British Raj. "travel for much" Should be travel "in" much.  Done "The Government of West Bengal proposed to ban these rickshaws in 2005, describing them "inhuman""  Done "They are still in use in Kolkata and provide a pollution-free means of transport." Are you sure they're pollution free? I believe they run on electricity, which creates pollution in power plants. You'll need to change it to emission-free, or something of that sort.  Done "used by Eurpoean noblemen" Correct spelling is European.  Done "Though a bill on this" Rephrase please. "On this" is incorrect. Try "Though a bill aiming to address this issue".  Done "Hero Honda, Bajaj Auto and TVS Motors are the largest two-wheeler companies in terms of market-share whilst models from Honda, Yamaha, Suzuki and Kinetic also sell in decent numbers. Royal Enfield is an iconic brand name in the country and elsewhere. It manufactures different variants of the Bullet motorcycle which is regarded as a classic motorcycle that is still in production." Source the above para. Also specify what you mean by "and elsewhere." The "regarded as a classic motorcycle" will definitely have to be sourced too, else it constitutes OR.  Done "Scooter manufacture" Change to manufacture of scooters.  Done "They eventually acquired licence of the" Change to "They eventually acquired the licence for the"  Done "they began a full-fledged manufacture " Change to they began full-fledged production.  Done That's half the article covered. I'll tackle the other half tomorrow, and once you're done with the sourcing, we'll take care of the lead. Aditya α ß 18:02, 18 June 2009 (UTC) I'm gonna go for the whole article right now, except for the lead. Source: "In ancient times, people often covered long distances on foot. For instance, Adi Sankaracharya traveled all over India. Even today it is not uncommon for people in rural areas to commute several kilometers on foot every day." Done first/second sentence has been referenced by someone else; I have removed the last one as reference is not found.--GDibyendu (talk) 05:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC) This will still have to be sourced: "Local transport is predominantly by road, with the exception of the four metropolitan cities of Mumbai, Delhi, Chennai, and Kolkata where train transport is more popular. Most Indian cities are connected to surrounding towns by buses or trains. The vast national rail network also enables farmers to transport their agricultural produce to larger towns, where they get better prices." Done removed last two as could not find references. Changed the first one: it can be easily referenced if needed.--GDibyendu (talk) 05:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC) Update. The first sentence has also been sourced. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 11:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC) "New initiatives like Bus rapid transit systems" Should be Bus Rapid Transit, or bus rapid transit. Capitalizing Bus doesn't make sense. Done it was like that probably because the linked article has that exact title.--GDibyendu (talk) 04:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC) "High Capacity buses" Is "high capacity" a proper noun? If it is, then the sentence is correct, else it needs to be changed to High capacity buses. Done Yes, its a proper noun, as High Capacity Bus System (HCBS) is a proper noun, as per this link.--GDibyendu (talk) 04:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC) "A recent law passed prohibits auto-rickshaw-drivers" Remove passed. It's redundant. "A recent law prohibits" is enough. Also auto-rickshaw-drivers is wrong. Change to auto rickshaw drivers, as that's the format used in the rest of the paragraph. Done "or nearby the final destination." Replace nearby with near. Done "It was a copy of the original Jeep manufactured under licence." Change to "It was a copy of the original Jeep and was manufactured under licence." Done "Till then the appeal of such vehicles had been restricted to the rural areas." Change till then to until then. Done "The Sumo, owing to its then-modern design, was the first utility vehicle which captured a share of the urban market from cars." "However, research from HireCarsIndia.com indicates that Toyota's Qualis and Innova are by far the most popular hired vehicles amongst tour operators and foreign visitors. " You'll need a source for that. And also cite the research from HireCarsIndia.com.  Done The research from HireCarsIndia.com was deleted as it is not a reliable source. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 11:45, 23 June 2009 (UTC) " people use Share taxis. " Share taxis isn't capitalized. Change to "share taxis". Done "Kashmir Railway is the second highest in the world" Source?  Done " Most highways are 2 laned, while in some better developed areas they may broaden to 4 lanes. Close to big cities, highways can even be 8 laned." That would constitute OR. Is there a reliable source for this? Done Replaced this with: "Under National Highways Development Project (NHDP), work is under progress to equip some of the important national highways with four lanes; also there is a plan to convert some stretches of these roads to six lanes." with a ref.--GDibyendu (talk) 12:08, 23 June 2009 (UTC) "All national highways are metalled, but very few are constructed of concrete" I don't understand. Can a metalled highway be constructed of concrete? If you could elaborate on this, I'd know if it's correct. A concrete metal road is one where the pavement is made of concrete over bitumen OR asphalt. Drive on the MPEW or on NH 4 between Pune and Hubli and you'll see what I mean. A concrete road can be identified by the square/rectangle marks on the road. Almost all rods in Mumbai, Kolkata, Pune and Nagpur are concrete. If you've been there, you've seen it.. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 11:30, 20 June 2009 (UTC) "In most developed states the roads are smooth, however in less developed states and in sparsely populated areas, highways are riddled with potholes." WP:OR yet again. Done removed, clearly an OR.--GDibyendu (talk) 02:31, 21 June 2009 (UTC) "expensive production car in the world[61]," References should come after the comma. Done "The Darjeeling Himalayan Railway is a World Heritage Site[71], " Same as above. Done " form of the Mumbai Maglev.[78]." 2 fullstops (or periods, or whatever you call them). Please remove the second one. Done "has commenced the construction of more than 50 skywalks,[12] [13] " No space between references. Done " than 1.4 million employees.[72] [77] " Same as above. Done "The distinction between major and minor ports is not based on the amount of cargo handled. " Change to "The distinction between major and minor ports is not based on the amount of cargo handled but on the regulatory body managing the port" or something of that sort. Question: why? the rest of the paragraph explains the difference anyway.--GDibyendu (talk) 04:34, 20 June 2009 (UTC) Waterways: Source all statistics in the Waterways paragraph.  Done "The following waterways have been declared as National Waterways till now" The "till now" part seems unnecessary. Done "Air Deccan, Jet Airways, Kingfisher Airlines, IndiGo Airlines and Air India are the most popular brands in domestic air travel in order of their market share." Source please.  Done "Of these, Jet, Indian and Kingfisher also operate overseas routes after the liberalisation of Indian Aviation." Should be "Indian aviation". Done "Jet Airways, India's largest private carrier, has invested billions of dollars to increase its fleet." Source.  Done That just leaves the lead. Once you finish with the sourcing, I'll review the lead. But since the lead is a summary of the whole article, I can't review it until you solve the sourcing issues. Aditya α ß 18:02, 19 June 2009 (UTC) I have removed a few sentences, for which no reference was found and I believe it will be difficult to find them anyway. Some more refs are still needed, marked them as  Not done—to mean 'to be done'.--GDibyendu (talk) 05:31, 23 June 2009 (UTC) Update. All the sourcing issues mentioned above have been taken care of. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 07:15, 24 June 2009 (UTC) The Lead Section I cannot pass the article until all the above sourcing issues have been taken care of. I'll review the lead though. "and today, there" Comma is unnecessary.  Done "there is a wide variety of well-developed modes of transport by land, water and air." This sentence contradicts the second paragraph, which says India's traffic is riddled with infrastructure problems.  Done The words well-developed have been removed, so that it no longer contradicts the second paragraph. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 14:52, 22 June 2009 (UTC) "wealthier few :" No space between few and ':'. Use '-' instead of ':'.  Done "Trucking goods from Gurgaon to the port in Mumbai can take up to 10 days" This is not totally relevant in the lead, which should provide no more than a summary of the article. Recommend shifting it to the main article.  Done "extremely congested :" As above, no space between congested and ':'. Also, use '-' and not ':' in this case.  Done "of any country" You can remove that, it's not necessary.  Done " on ports in India." Should be " on the ports in India."  Done Incorporate aviation into the lead.  Done Aditya α ß 17:14, 21 June 2009 (UTC) The lead's fine now. Some sourcing issues remain. I'll check back in 12 hours, and in 24 hours, and I'll pass the article if the issues have been taken care of. Regards, Aditya α ß 17:48, 22 June 2009 (UTC) And finally! Can you use this as a reference for the "no rail link exists with Sri Lanka" sentence? I believe it constitutes a reliable source. Also, for the line "all highways are metalled", can the word "metalled" be internally linked to an article? For those who don't know what it means. Aditya α ß 12:38, 24 June 2009 (UTC) Both done now.--GDibyendu (talk) 12:53, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

Now that I'm satisfied that Transport in India satisfies the Good Article criteria, I'm promoting it to a GA. Congratulations! The credit for this goes to the following users for their hard work on this article (in no particular order):

GDibyendu (talk · contribs)

SBC-YPR (talk · contribs)

Rsrikanth05 (talk · contribs)

Aditya ^α _ß 14:16, 24 June 2009 (UTC)

GA category?

Could someone add this article in the appropriate category at WP:GA? I've asked around, no one seems to know exactly where to put this. Aditya ^α _ß 19:17, 26 June 2009 (UTC)

I belive the correct catagory is Engineering and technology ? --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 10:16, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

I know that. Sub category? Aditya ^α _ß 15:00, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Transport? --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 16:47, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

But even Transport has sub-sub categories! This is so frustrating. Aditya ^α _ß 17:23, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

Per the discussion here, I've created a new subcategory Transport by region and added the article to it. Regards, SBC-YPR (talk) 08:13, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

Yes, that's an appropriate solution. Well done. Aditya ^α _ß 17:56, 2 July 2009 (UTC)

I guess http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Good_articles#Engineering_and_technology Transport\? I'll ask some one like Tinucherian or Jay to look it up. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 18:17, 27 June 2009 (UTC)

New refs

4 refs are not working/have died. These will have to be replaced, or the sentences removed for the article to retain GA status. Aditya ^α _ß 12:40, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

I'll look into it ASAP. --Rsrikanth05 (talk) 15:09, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Thank you. =) Aditya ^α _ß 15:22, 29 June 2009 (UTC)

Today the checklink was showing three red lines. One had a html/htm problem in url, another two were from timesonline.co.uk. Among these two urls, one has got changed now, updated accordingly. Checklink still shows 2 red lines, but the links are actually fine. If you search for 'Tata Nano', you'll get one of these two on first page of search results and the other one will be on second page. Both works. Probably the webserver on which this website is deployed has some checks against web crawlers etc. to avoid DOS attacks.--GDibyendu (talk) 14:33, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

I see what you mean. Thanks for taking care of it. Aditya ^α _ß 15:17, 1 July 2009 (UTC)

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3