Talk:Spirited Away/Archive 1

Added section markers

I added sections in place of the original rules, and IDed the commenters (I think I got them right; they're mostly anons anyway. —wwoods 06:55, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Themes

This movie is about the personal growth of a 10 year old kid. The way she change, the way she overcome difficulties, etc. (from an IMDB talk page) --[ Ed Poor 12:06, 11 October 2002]

I also felt more <<traditional miyazaki>> themes were dealt with, ecology in particular (river god cleaning scene), as well as the contrast between the modern and traditional world. --[ 81.57.245.19 19:09, 8 May 2004]

I added some more themes and expanded the preexisting ones, along with citing a few reliable references. Do you think that is sufficient to remove the 'unreferenced' tag? Tokidoki27 13:45, 13 September 2006 (UTC)

Kanji

Wouldn't her name be written in Japanese characters, not Chinese ones? --rmhermen

'Kanji' literally means 'Chinese character'. --Brion 19:51 Oct 11, 2002 (UTC)

Sweet Lady, NO! The Japanese use kanji in many places, in this case with written personal names. Besides, if it were written in one of the phonetic kana scripts Yubaba wouldn't be able to totally change the pronunciation of "Chihiro" to "Sen" by simply lifting some of the characters off the page.

--[ 213.94.233.111 14:33, 18 December 2004 ]

She could actually. (see below) - Phorque 11:56, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

"She is deprived of her name Chihiro (literally means a thousand fathoms) and is given a new name, Sen (literally means a thousand) (Chi and Sen use the same Kanji. Hence, Sen is actually a part of her name, Chihiro.)" [1]

I think you misunderstood, Phorque. Look again what the above user is saying. When written in the kana scripts the characters for sen (se, n) are not part of the characters for chihiro ( chi, hi, ro ). It is not possible to remove some of chi, hi, ro and end up with se, n. Zargulon 12:02, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Oops, I get it now. The kana don't match, the kanji do. So 荻野 千尋 (ogino chihiro) appears on the paper, and Yu-baaba lifts off everything but 千, which can be Chi or Sen. I see now that the first user was arguing that chihiro should be written in japanese phonetics. My bad. - Phorque 10:27, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Yubaba inspired by Alice

Does anyone else find that Yubaba more closely resembles the Duchess from Alice in Wonderland, rather than the Queen of Hearts? The Duchess had the most important trait, a huge, ugly head. The Queen had a rather more normal head, and was more renowned for screaming, "Off with her head!" [ 128.216.1.8 17:30, 30 May 2005 ]

No - folks seem to miss that Baba Yaga is the classic European witch of the woods ... - Sparky 19:35, 3 March 2006 (UTC)

• Isn't it possible she is inspired by both. Infact, there are actually a lot of similarities to Yubaba and Duchess. Including how the two act around their respective female protagonist. And the transformation to pig thing.

Miyazaki's retirement

I don't believe that Miyazaki really retired between Princess Mononoke and Spirited Away. See this FAQ from Nausicaa.net. While it's been widely reported that he announced his retirement after Mononoke, it's more true that he decided to change how he directed the films (as he was a very hands-on director.) His retirement after Spirited Away seemed more final, and only ended when they couldn't find the right person to direct Howl's Moving Castle. --24.19.116.37 14:08, 13 September 2005 (UTC)

French DVD package

I removed the French DVD image: it's French and not English, it doesn't show any unique packaging the reader might be interested in, and two similar images already exist in the article. It would be nice if maybe higher resolution images of the screenshots from the back of the French DVD (or any DVD version) could be cropped out and included in the article... those would go along with the text. —Tarnas 01:00, 9 September 2005 (UTC)

Sequel?

Did anyone find Spirited away a littel long winded and pointless. The Movie was overall to me 4 stars but the ending left me empty and yearning for more. My older brother said the story procrastinated alot and that it didn't get to the point. My sister said it was a nice movie but seemed seemed like it was to short for 2 hours. I on the other hand thought the ending could have been extended. Why did Yubaba sister give Chihiro that magic scrunchy for her hair, she did't even use it, Maybe they could have added that to the movie's ending... Maybe Chihiro would have met Haku as a human neighbor when she got into her new house. Or maybe they could have made a flash back on Chihiro's life before she moved so that you could feel sorry for her moving. The ending left no emotion sad, happy or glad. Just...empty. Do you think they'll have a spirite away 2?

No. Miyazaki would not do that. And this is not the place for discussions of the film. elvenscout742 21:55, 30 November 2005 (UTC)

Ghibi did a sequel of sorts to Whispers of the Heart with The Cat Returns, but Miyazaki had little if any connection to it (and it shows). That was one of the things I liked about the movie- the feeling that I wanted to know more about the world and its characters; and that they had their own lives and everything did not exist only to react with Chihiro. (Which unfortunately is way too rare with American animation.) Examples include Kamaji and Lin both wanted to ride the train, the train's service being cutback, all of the people riding the train, and the hinted antagonism between Lin and all of the other staff. It made for a fuller and more interesting world. (I do agree with the above about the hair ornament- it's brought up way too late to serve any purpose, but the Japanese version doesn't play it up so much as the dubbing suggests.) A sequel could be a mundane "Chihiro and family get to their new home after serveral days to find all of their stuff stolen" or a "Dorothy returns to OZ AGAIN and AGAIN" sort, but I would rather see more of the spirit world's charcaters, and what they do, and for this probably it would be better to focus on a different character. CFLeon 03:14, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

What does this discussion have to do with the article? Comme le Lapin 06:50, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Infobox

I thought I was removing italics, but apparently I removed the quotes instead. Regardless, I think that whatever baroque is needed should be supplied by the template, so that the parameter is just the plain title without any formatting etc. Shinobu 21:12, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Shouldn't this infobox use the Anime movie infobox template, or is everyone happy with the plain film-infobox template? - Rob 15:44, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

Either is fine I think, however if the anime infobox was used then the information on all the people involved would have to be replicated in the article. So it's a question of whether the format would look better and would the page then be getting too long. - Squilibob 10:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Merge

It's been suggested that Chihiro (Spirited Away) be merged into this article. The current article is short, but I think it has potential. Suggestions? Kerowyn 05:37, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

I'm trying to get a characters section going. For now she can be there but I'm sure there is potential for a full article on her. - Phorque 08:31, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

Most of the characters have enough potential for their own articles. There is much to be said about the meanings and literary symbols that many such as No Face or Kamaji represent. Still, at this time, I'd think that all the characters can be adequately covered each as a section within a single article. Tenmiles 06:04, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Literal Title Verification

Could anyone who reads japanese please verify the literal translation of the title. I'm fairly positive that it is not "Sen and Chihiro's Spiriting Away" I've heard from a few sources that a more accurate translation would be "The Spiritual Disappearance of Sen and Chihiro" or "The Mysterious Disappearance of Sen and Chihiro." Can anyone verify? Dave 21:00, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Kamikakushi means spiriting away according to my dictionary. Its components are kami = gods, and kakusu=to hide something. But the word kamikakushi really does mean spiriting away as far as I can tell. Cupboard comes from "cup" and "board" but that doesn't mean that a cupboard is a board to put cups on. Go figure. Zargulon 22:59, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

But the term originally did refer to a shelf where you would put cups on, and that evolved to our modern version. This is very common in language. CFLeon 06:56, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Indeed, but it is not called a literal translation. You must be thinking of etymology. Zargulon 08:44, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

If you want a purely literal translation of the title, it does mean "Sen and Chihiro's Spiriting Away." As Zargulon rightly points out 神隠し (kamikakushi) is translated in most dictionarys as 'Spirited Away.' A more natural (and literal from my understanding of it's usage) English translation to my ears would be 'to vanish into thin air.' But that wouldn't make a good film title I guess... Barryvalder 13:15, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

In the article the meaning of the title is referred to as "the spiriting away of Sen and Chiriro" - I thought perhaps "Sen and the Spiriting Away of Chiriro" might make a little more sense? I mean Sen is never really spirited away. Chiriro was spirited away and "became" Sen... (random lurker)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 141.2.215.190 (talk) 19:04, 28 December 2006 (UTC).

In my Japanese religion papers I've seen kamikakushi referred to as 'hidden by the gods', I feel the 'spirited away', though it fits beautifully, doesn't explain very well. Breen's dictionary(http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/wwwjdic.html) refers to it as both 'hidden by the gods' and 'mysterious disappearance' but the New Nelson only refers to it as 'hidden by the gods' (page 801, ISBN 0-8048-2036-8). I just wanted to provide the information since I'm quite new and loath to edit anything. Haec 17:42, 22 January 2006 (CET)

Having studied Japanese religion, you won't forget that the term gods tends to represent a different concept to the western mind than what Kami does in a Shinto-influenced understanding. The phrase "hidden by the gods" has the potential, therefore, to convey a meaning that may not be entirely accurate to the original intent. Tenmiles 06:21, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

The other day a sweet wrapper I was carrying got blown away. Neither me or my friend could locate it anywhere. She said it had been 'kamikakushi'. It's worth keeping in mind that the normal, everyday usage of the phrase has become a lot more mundane than the literal translation. This is partly why I earlier equated it with the English phrase 'to vanish into thin air.' Barryvalder 15:43, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Tenmiles and Barryvalder both have excellent points. (I do feel that the potential misunderstanding about kami is not due to the term gods but to people's inherent association with the word, but hell, the consequences are the same.) So, for the literal translation 'Mysterious disappearance' sounds best to me, especially since it carries the meaning of vanishing into thin air and being hidden by something beyond people's ken. What are your thoughts, people? Haec 00:59, 15 February 2006 (CET)

My thoughts are that 'The Spiriting away of Sen and Chihiro' is the best literal translation of the film title. I actually think it is a good translation for the sweet wrapper too, but I am *sure* it is the best translation for the film title. Furthermore, though it is interesting to have a discussion of the etymology of kamikakushi within Japanese, and the various occasions on which Japanese people might use "kamikakushi", it is highly unlikely that such a discussion will lead to a better literal English rendition of the film title than "The Spiriting Away of Sen and Chihiro", which is the topic of this thread. Maybe you guys should start a new thread for "origin and usage of the Japanese phrase kamikakushi". Zargulon 15:20, 15 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree that I was probably getting a bit off-topic talking about the way Japanese people use the phrase kamikakushi in their everyday life. I was just trying to give some context. I also agree with you when you say it's the best translation for the film title, espcially given the content of the film (and not forgetting that the English title is Spirited Away). Barryvalder 12:50, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

We ended up off topic but I didn't mean to suggest it was your fault Barry. I found your anecdote interesting and informative. Zargulon 15:11, 18 February 2006 (UTC)

We did get carried away, didn't we? I also loved the story about the paper wrapper. I agree it's best for people's basic understanding to leave the 'spirited away' in the title. It's fortuitous the turn of phrase exists in English. Haec 00:54, 1 March 2006 (CET)

As a Japanese I can tell you that 'Sen' means 'uncountable' and 'Chihiro' means 'unfathomable' so 'Sen to Chihiro no' should not be translated simply as 'Sen to Chihiro's'. 58.1.98.192 20:00, 26 August 2006 (UTC)

Sen and Chihiro are names, so they are left as is. Names are usually not translated, not even in literal translations. Shinobu 00:26, 27 August 2006 (UTC)

Haku's Attitude

Regarding style, I note this passage at the end of the entry:
"Some fans suggest that Haku was only cold to her at certain times because he knew Yubaba was watching him and that they both could be punished if she knew that he helped Chihiro get into the bathhouse."
Is there any particular reason why we would want to maintain this statement in this form, specifically saying "some fans suggest"? It seems like this is an attempt at presenting the idea in the form of NPOV, which I respect, but which seems incongruous in this context. I will say that in my own viewing of the film, this was the assumption I made as well, but acknowledge that I cannot divine the author's actual intent; it is left to the viewing audience to interpret. Nevertheless, the use of the phrase "some fans suggest" seems to indicate that this is but one out of several plausible interpretations, each of which has merit. I have never heard any other explanation suggested, anywhere.
Based on the context of the relationship between the two characters as generally depicted throughout the film, and particularly by its resolution, it seems that the probability that Haku was being deliberately distant or aloof (in the pertinent scenes) purely as the result of some personality quirk is unlikely.
In the spirit of being bold, I have edited the line. If anyone chooses to revert it, I'd be interested in learning more about your opinions behind doing so. Tenmiles 08:40, 4 February 2006 (UTC)

Yubaba, Yubaaba, Yu-baaba

Which is correct? The page has all three. —wwoods 03:27, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

In the english dubbed version she is "Yubaba" in the Japanese original it is correctly spelled "Yu-baaba". Definitely not "yubaaba", though. I'd vote we go with the japanese original although I'm sure others would differ with me on that. - Phorque 09:20, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

OK, I've actually gone with the convention "Yubaba" for all references except the one after the kanji spelling of her name seeing as the english dubbed version is the one most westerners have seen and she's referred to as "Yubaba" there. Everyone cool? - Phorque 09:39, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

And we also need consensus on Zeniiba versus Zeniba. I don't actually know which is correct in this case. Was she just "Zeniba" in the english-dubbed version?

They are "Yubaba" and "Zeniba" in the English subtitles. (Surely their names don't appear in writing in the dubbed version? Or are we perhaps talking about English-language credits here?) -- Picapica 12:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Yeah, we're talking about how they are credited for the English dubbed version. - Phorque 14:27, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

OK. I'll have a look later. --Picapica 14:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Can confirm they are "Yubaba" and "Zeniba" in the on-screen English-language credits. --Picapica 21:42, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Gross

I have added several references to the article to verify the figures mentioned. I can't find the Gross sales figure of 250M $US anywhere though. The third reference has it at $230M $US. Can anyone back the 250 figure up with a link? - Squilibob 10:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

IMDB lists the US gross as of August 31, 2003 as $10,049,886. How could it have possibly grown to $250 million in only two years? ~MDD4696 04:03, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

No not the US gross, the worldwide gross. - Squilibob 07:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I found it listed as $274,925,095 at Box Office Mojo. ~MDD4696 17:55, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Sen translation

I believe in the Turner Classic Movies salute to Miyazaki, the co-host mentioned that the names of bathouse workers meant what their jobs were. So kamanji is 'boiler man', and so on. However, it says here that Sen meant 'a hundred.' I, being the lucky holder of a Japanese-English (and vice versa) dictionary, quickly looked through my dictionary to see what Sen meant, along with 'a hundred,' and saw that the symbol that's used here means '1000 thousand,' symbolizing the '8 million gods' that relax in the bathouse, to quote the Japanese sub. 71.3.44.235 14:13, 11 February 2006 (UTC)

No Face Vs. Noh Face

The thought came to me that the character's name is probably put as "Noh Face" rather than "No Face". Makes sense, with the mask. Someone should probably go in and change that. Paragone 03:08, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

The Japanese name for the character is "Kaonashi" (literally "no face"). Is this a term used in Noh? --日本穣 04:18, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

It should be No-Face, as it is spelled that way in the credits. The "Noh" business is something of an unintentional pun.Finite 20:22, 26 March 2006 (UTC)

Bizzarre

I found the movie to be bizzarre, even more so than most movies. At first, I thought that Ice Age should've won Best Animated, but I can understand now why this movie was chosen. It's innovative, whereas Ice Age is just another typical American animated picture. I guess the movie takes some getting used to. [unsigned]

I liked Spirited Away but I didn't really like the ending. It kinda went too fast. Yancyfry jr

Er.... who cares?--195.98.247.83 11:54, 12 September 2006 (UTC)

What does this discussion have to do with the article? Comme le Lapin 06:52, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Repetative references

Why does the article constantly refer to other stories when discribing almost every event in the plot? (ie. "and such-and-such happened, much like in The Little Mermaid") Its not needed and really funks up the article. I want to clean it out, if there are no objections. BethEnd 15:46, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Go for it, I've no problem with that. Finite 16:15, 26 June 2006 (UTC)

Criticisms section

I removed the line about cheapened characters and simplified dialogue in the Criticisms section because they seemed overblown and uncited. Finite 15:35, 1 August 2006 (UTC)

Answer to Phorque's question

Well, since you asked... Tud123. Shinobu 09:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Allegories

There are some possibilities for allegory in Miyazaki's characters:

This smells of original research to me. If it's not backed up with reliable published sources, I will remove it. Shinobu 13:26, 4 September 2006 (UTC)

Based on Taiwanse Streets

I just notice today that in the Chinese Traditional Wikipedia, it says that the movie is base on 九份 (an ancient chinese street.) http://zh.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=%E4%B9%9D%E4%BB%BD&variant=zh-hant --Ramu50 (talk) 23:41, 10 June 2008 (UTC)

Differences between the Japanese and English versions

The section on "Differences between the Japanese and English versions" really needs to have an overview (or even a list) of the actual differences (or a link to a site providing them). At the moment, it only really says that are differences (and that people argue about them). [ 60.240.249.149 01:24, 7 September 2005 ]

I second that. Very curious. Druff 04:46, 13 November 2005 (UTC)

Thirded. In fact, I came over to this Discussion page to make exactly this point. Only one example is mentioned, and this is in passing just to illustrate the point that there's a controversy. It really should be the other way round. CFLeon 03:14, 4 January 2006 (UTC)

There's another example in the plot summary: (The plots of the Japanese- and English-language versions differ slightly here:

The main driver for the differences was the desire to make the English dialogue consistent with the mouth movements of the characters. If the character's mouth is visible, s/he has to speak from frame X to frame Y, and the vowels and consonants have to be not-glaringly-different from the original -- though I suppose lip-readers crack up watching & listening.

—wwoods 06:55, 5 January 2006 (UTC)

Several of the accusations seem spurious, particularly the "romantic moments" bit. A specific part of the Disney-Tokuma deal explicitly forbids excising any material. The worst Disney has done in any of the Ghibli films' dubs is some questionable additional lines. They are legally obligated noy to make cuts. I am removing some of the statements under the differences section that are incorrect.Finite 19:23, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

Unless my hearing has betrayed me, there was at least one line that was omitted in the English version. As Chihiro is running from the bath house, finally free to return home, Boh actually says something like "Come and see us" when she turns back to wave at all the attendants. This seems to be absent in the English dub. Songofthehawk 09:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

:I've compiled a list of the differences between quite a few lines, especially those concerning Haku and Chihiro. There ARE some major differences, and while the "romantic moments" weren't exactly cut, I believe the changes that Disney did for the lines in the English dub may significantly change some viewers' opinions of both the relationship between Chihiro and Haku, and the personalities of the two. However, I have not singled out every single difference there is just yet. I'm also wondering if a certain format for comparing these differences would be preferred as my current list is rather informal. Let me know if you want me to upload it somewhere and place a link to it, or if you'd like it here. Songofthehawk 10:14, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Alright. Until then, I have decided to add another point to the list of "Changes include" which will state that some lines from the Japanese version were also omitted or edited. Songofthehawk 04:49, 8 September 2007 (UTC)

wwoods has made a very good point there; in fact, it's quite undeniable. However, I'd have to say that some of the changes still seem to deviate too much from the original - i.e. where it is possible to just rephrase a line, they are instead changed completely. For instance - why does Chihiro need to assert "I knew you were good!" when her original line is actually just "I'm so grateful"? Why does Zeniba say that she is still quite angry with Haku when Chihiro gives her back the seal, when this never happens in the Japanese version? The point I'm trying to make remains the same - some of these changes actually have the potential to change perspectives on certain characters.

As such, I am going to revise my proposal - while this is the English section of wikipedia, I'm of the opinion that this article still ought to contain information on its original Japanese version (why concentrate it on the English version if it is just a dub?) The plot summary and other notes based on the changes made in the English version should be edited out and replaced with information pertaining to the original one. If no one objects, I will eventually take some time off to do so, and will instead populate a list of the lines which the English version made more significant changes to for the "Differences between the Japanese and English versions" section.

I'm perfectly fine with objections to this; though I will also be interested in hearing your reasons for doing so. Songofthehawk 09:02, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Kohaku

Chihiro recalls falling into the Kohaku (コハク) river

Note that Kohaku ( 琥珀 / コハク ), while containing the word 白 / haku ("white"), means "amber". --Picapica 18:56, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

so what is the correct way to represent "kohaku"? 琥珀 or コハク? - Phorque 09:23, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

My note was just as a point of interest. In the Japanese film script Haku and (his real full name) Nigihayami Kohakunushi are both written in katakana, i.e. ハク and ニギハヤミコハクヌシ . There are, in characteristic Japanese style, several different possible interpretations! For more on this, see [2]. --Picapica 12:21, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

PS: If you enter the kanji version 琥珀 into the Japanese Wikipedia, it redirects to コハク. --Picapica 12:34, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

Another possible (perhaps even a little more suitable, depending on your viewpoint) interpretation: if you literally translate コハク, it means 'small' (コ) and 'white' (ハク). The Chinese version of 'Spirited Away', however, has chosen to take the '琥珀' interpretation of the name.

His full name, ニギハヤミコハクヌシ (Nigihayami Kohaku Nushi), can therefore mean "The Lord of the harmonious and swift-flowing waters of the Kohaku (small and white, or amber) River". 'Nigi' means 'harmonious' or 'peaceful', 'haya' means 'rapid' or 'fast', 'mi' refers to water, and 'nushi' means 'lord', 'god' or 'master' (it is, I think, a regular title for Japanese deities). Songofthehawk 02:44, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

Well duh the Chinese version of the Movie used Cangjie/Kanji. They don't have Hiragana or Katakana in Chinese, they both mean the same thing, but they're written in Katakana.Moocowsrule (talk) 04:35, 3 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

Vandalism Clean-up

There is some obscene and unrelated writing on the article, most notably at the end of nearly every section after "Credits." Obviously, this should be cleaned-up, and the article should be thoroughly inspected for any other vandalism.

The caption under the picture says "Spirited A gay film poster". It should probably be changed to "away". --151.197.186.226 15:24, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

On the Zeniba section

[I]n the Japanese version she states that she no longer blames him, prompting some fans to speculate that when Chihiro told her about the control-slug that Yubaba put in him that she realized that Yubaba was more guilty than Haku ever was[.]

My head hurts terribly when I try to read this sentence. I can't even rewrite it myself as I don't know what it means. Should one perhaps remove the last 'that'? Would that still (or rather, make it) convey the intended meaning? 213.112.137.177 20:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Yes, I think so. But I would hardly call that speculation. The sentece could also use some commas. Shinobu 01:38, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

I just changed it, I think it reads a bit better now:

[I]n the Japanese version she states that she no longer blames him, prompting some fans to speculate that when Chihiro told her about the control-slug that Yubaba put in him, she realized that Yubaba was more guilty than Haku ever was[.]

davekeeling 20:18, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

Miramax

The article currently states:

This was the first Disney-distributed animated film Miramax Films did not release. All three previous Disney-distributed animated films Tom and Jerry: The Movie, The Thief and the Cobbler, and Princess Mononoke, were released by Miramax Films.

What was this intended to mean? Disney distributed animated films for years before Miramax even existed. --Metropolitan90 00:05, 22 October 2006 (UTC)

• I have removed the item since no explanation was forthcoming. --Metropolitan90 19:10, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
  • No! When I say "Disney-distributed animated films", I mean "animated films distributed but not produced by Disney", do you understand?
    • I thought you might be referring to something like that. However, first, Tom and Jerry: The Movie was released by Miramax in 1992, before Disney bought Miramax. So it had nothing to do with Disney, at least not on its original release. Second, Miramax is and was a distributor, so it distributed Arabian Knight and Princess Mononoke itself notwithstanding the fact that it was owned by Disney when it did so. Third, what about the Pixar films such as Toy Story? Those were distributed by Disney, but not produced by Disney, also. --Metropolitan90 19:21, 5 November 2006 (UTC) Reference to Tom and Jerry was later found to be inaccurate. --Metropolitan90 04:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
      • When I put it there, I would've meant traditionally-animated films because the previous ones released by Miramax were traditionally-animated and so was this film, right?
        • First of all, do not change other people's comments on talk pages. That can be considered vandalism. I have since learned that you are correct to say that Tom and Jerry: The Movie was released by Miramax in 1993, after Disney bought Miramax, but you should have just stated that in your own comment rather than changing the point I was trying to make. (I reverted my comment but struck the inaccurate part above.) Second, it sounds like you are trying to say something like: "Spirited Away was the first animated film released by Disney that was not produced in-house by a Disney animation studio, not counting the Pixar films or films distributed by Miramax." I believe that would be a true statement, per List of Disney animated features, but I would prefer to hear from others as to whether that is important enough to mention in the article. --Metropolitan90 04:11, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Trivia

Someone vandalized this page by adding that there will be a "Spirited Away world" in Kingdom Hearts III. Since the game is not yet in development, and Disney does not own the rights to these characters, it's obviously very false so I'm going to remove it.

-- 67.183.151.13 02:35, 15 December 2006 (UTC)

Mistakes

On the mistakes section it says the radish spirit continues to go up in the elevator, but that is not neccesarily true. The doors merely closes - there is no intention that he continues to go up - elevators go 2 directions. I propose this mistake be taken out of the article. ShadowedBlade 00:52, 29 December 2006 (UTC)

Doesn't Chihiro get out of the elevator at the top floor, where Yubabba is? If this is the case, then the elevator has nowhere to go but down from there. The radish spirit simply helped her out by accompanying her to the top floor, and then he obviously has to go back down after she gets out.

Order of Characters

Just a small thing, but the order that the characters are in on the page seems a bit odd. Is there a reason for this? For example, it seems odd that Kashira comes before No-Face, even though No-Face is a much more central character. It doesn't seem to be in alphabetical order either. davekeeling 20:22, 28 January 2007 (UTC)

May be Order of Appearance. Didn't check. --Safe-Keeper 07:42, 28 July 2007 (UTC)

Plot summary too long

As seems to be common in Wikipedia articles about popular films, the plot summary in this article is unbearably long. It's 1600 words, which is well past the length of summarization. I plan to edit it to a proper synopsis length soon. Comme le Lapin 06:59, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

Spoilers?

Shouldn't there be a spoilers heading under synopsis?

There was a big debate and changes to Wikipedia:Spoiler. Spoiler tags do not belong in plot synopsis or summaries because it's obvious that they contain a full account of the story, hence spoilers are inevitable. –Pomte 06:16, 7 June 2007 (UTC)

Eggman VS Kamajii

This s just me being a big videogame nerd, but doesn't Kamajii (the boiler man) resemble Dr. Eggman? They have similar voices, both have the same egg-like shapes bodies with skinny limbs and very similar moustache/sunglasses combinations. http://powersonic.com.br/games/personagens/media/eggman.gif http://www.oomu.org/images/miyazaki/magritte/chihiro_kamaji.jpg Shouldn't this be mentioned in the article or something? 84.13.121.92 16:52, 14 June 2007 (UTC) Mojanboss

Romanisation of song titles

I'm no expert on Japanese but in "11. 仕事はつらいぜ [Shigoto ha Tsuraize / It's Hard Work] (久石譲 Joe Hisaishi)" (here) I would have thought that は would be Romanised as "wa" than "ha". I didn't change it myself because I would rather have someone with a better grasp of the language verify it. Thanks. D4g0thur 12:07, 17 June 2007 (UTC)

Since no-one else has said anything suggesting otherwise and I'm pretty sure it should be "wa", I've gone ahead and changed it. D4g0thur 09:14, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

That depends on if you want the romaji to follow either the pronounciation or rather the japanese spelling. は is the 'ha' syllable, but here it is used as a particle, changing the sound to 'wa'. Personally, I would leave the character as 'ha' in the romanization, as the romaji, not being a phonetical transcript, should follow the original writing rather than how it is pronounced. Aren't there official guidelines on this?--210.225.86.130 (talk) 02:08, 21 January 2008 (UTC)

The particle は is romanized as wa not ha.Moocowsrule (talk) 04:42, 3 October 2008 (UTC)moocowsrule

History of the Script/Story?

It is my understanding that the story is an adaptation of a novel (by the same author who wrote the story from which Howl's Moving Castle was based). I don't know the details but it seems like this info should be added to the article. right? Tajoman 13:52, 25 June 2007 (UTC)

Not until you can explain it a bit better.

Howl's Moving Castle was written by Diana Wynne Jones. While the film version of that was extremely modified from the original story, I really can't imagine being able to edit a story by a British author and get anything resembling Spirited Away, which is heavily grounded in Japanese culture. So it seems more than unlikely. Leushenko 21:42, 11 September 2007 (UTC)

No, Spirited Away is an original story. Songofthehawk 07:09, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

Plot Summary based on English version

It is quite clear that some parts of the sypnosis have come from the English version instead of the Japanese. Should this be so, especially since the Japanese is the original version of the show? I am not editing the summary right now; however, I am going to add a note there that states it is based on the English dub of the show, which contains a few differences from the Japanese version. Songofthehawk 10:36, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

And whoa, hang on a second. Zeniba explains that Yubaba put the slug in Haku to control him, and that Sen has already healed Haku with her love. As far as I remember, in the English version, it is Kamaji who muses that Sen must have healed Haku with her love - not Zeniba. I'm editing the line - and if there are no objections, I also hope to rectify the plot summary to fit its original Japanese version soon enough, and make it shorter, too. Songofthehawk 07:09, 13 September 2007 (UTC) Mm, my mistake. I went back to check and realized that she did mention it after all. I have left the line alone. Songofthehawk 08:00, 13 September 2007 (UTC)

I have reiterated this point under the discussion for the Differences between the Japanese and English versions, where I've also proposed that a few changes be made to the current article. Songofthehawk 09:10, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Japanese cultural differences (Granny)

In the section on Zeniba, it is remarked that Zeniba requests that Chihiro call her Granny, as though this was to emphasise her character as a grandmotherly figure. It is my understanding that this is in fact another example of alterations to the script for the benefit of a Western audience. I believe I am correct that in Japanese/Asian culture the word for Grandmother can be used as a general term of respect for an elderly woman (certainly this is true in Korea and China, and I believe it also applies in Japan). However, this is not widely known in the West, so the line "call me Granny" may have been added to explain Chihiro's otherwise spontaneous use of the term. Can anyone with a little more knowledge in the subject clarify this matter? 86.154.197.10 (talk) 01:15, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

Searching for Spirited Away

If you search Wikipedia for "Spirited Away" (capitalising both words), you find this article on the film. But search for "spirited away" (lower case) or "SPIRITED AWAY" & all you get is a stub article for Kamikakushi, which only says this about the film:

Spirited away is an anime by Miyazaki, based loosely on this word. The protagonist, Chihiro is "spirited away" of her name, which is replaced by a name given by Yubaba to take control of her - Sen.

It does link to the main article, but only via the names Chihiro or Yubaba. There is no disambiguation link. Shouldn't this be corrected to avoid peole thinking this is the only info about this film? I think most Wikipedia users would assume that they could search for a film title in lower case & still find it. Best solution would be to merge the text from the Kamikushi article/stub into the Spirited Away entry, & redirect searches for Kamikushi, as well as lower case forms of Spirited Away, to this page. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 172.203.239.124 (talk) 22:45, 3 January 2008 (UTC)

Plot summary

At more than 1100 words, the plot summary was too long and difficult to follow, and had been marked as such. I've replaced it with a briefer summary from an older revision [3]. --Tony Sidaway 17:18, 23 January 2008 (UTC)

bad reviews

were there any bad reviews? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.153.217.21 (talk) 18:46, 30 January 2008 (UTC)

Wikipedia Diff Bug

I've undid a vandalism to the article right now, but it seems the Wikipedia history/diff feature is bugged, as the comparison between my undo and the vandal edit makes it seems like it's me who vandalized the article by changing a section entry in line 1 (which obviously isn't there) by a single word (which isn't there either). Pretty strange. Anyway, if you compare my undo and the version before that of the (actual) vandal, you'll see they're exactly equal. I hope this doesn't cause problems for me... :'-( -- alexgieg (talk) 02:28, 25 April 2008 (UTC)

Different cars in the beginning and at the end?

Have you noticed that in the beginning of the movie they are driving an Audi, but at the very end — they drive away in a... Mercedes W202??
What's that about? —KpoT (talk) 17:13, 25 July 2008 (UTC)

Haku

About the description of Haku, I thought it should be changed because Haku is clearly a kindly character who is bound by his circumstances. The original description had him out to be a villain type who fell in love with Chihiro, but was mean to everyone else just for the heck of it...

I don't think this is feasible at all. Firstly, it is given that Haku came into the spirit world just like Chihiro, but due to his nature (the movie states that dragons can't help but love magic) he is seduced into apprenticeship by Yubaba. As a result, she gains control over him, and further exerts control using a bug she implants in him. Obviously he can't trust or befriend any other bath house workers because he may get into big trouble if Yubaba finds out. His motivation is A. To learn magic, B. To not to get killed. To achieve this, he is required to remain cold and stony on the exterior.

The evidence I use to back the fact that Haku was always good at heart is that at the moment he sees Chihiro, he helps her NOT because he stops and falls in love with her at first sight (come on, don't be ridiculous ^^;), but because he sees a human in peril, and thus he quickly moves to her aid. He befriends her straight away because here is finally a person he can trust, a trapped being like himself. The falling in love bit obviously happens later. So I thought I'd change the description to reflect the fact that Haku is, and always was, a valiant guy trapped in a hellish situation.

Same goes for some of the other characters to be honest... for example Lin isn't really aloof for very long, just a bit brusque. She's a practical, working lady type afterall. It's not because all these people are mean and Chihiro changes their ways. Afterall this movie is about Chihiro changing, maturing. Not her changing those around her... though a little bit of that does happen as well, while she matures. Ubershock (talk) 18:52, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Split

I think the characters section should be split into a page called List of characters from Spirited Away (like Kung Fu Panda does). Opinions? —TheLeftorium 17:24, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Or better yet, reduce the section down to the important characters and slim down the summaries. It doesn't need to list every character that makes an appearance in the movie. --Farix (Talk) 17:45, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Yeah. Do you think we could merge it with the cast section? Most film GAs does that. —TheLeftorium 13:41, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

I think there should be a new section called List of characters from Spirited Away with a section for the Major Characters, the Minor Characters, and the cast table. How to summerize all that up on the Main Page though? Knowledgekid8714:17, 1 Febraury 2009 (UTC)

Definite ending?

I restored the Story section just now but I was wondering about the dispute earlier over the ending. Is it possible for there to be a "correct" ending? I thought Chihiro did remember the "spiriting away". Is there evidence in the movie that she didn't remember? If anything, the ending seemed rather ambiguous and left a lot open to the viewer. -70.176.93.225 03:00, 7 December 2006 (UTC)

It doesn't really hint to either, you can assume she remembers because she keeps looking back. Also at the end she still has the hair band, so that could click her memory. Tryx3 (talk) 04:24, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Haku's Abilities

• Aside from being able to turn into a dragon, what are some of Haku's abilities/techniques? --Kid Sonic (talk) 19:36, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Besides the fact that this is my own interpretation, thus invalid for the article, Haku's only innate abilities would be to turn into a dragon, and flight, which stems from his original dragon form. The rest are magic spells learnt from his apprenticeship with Yubaba. - Zero1328 _Talk? 21:33, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

I think I do remember some of those spells he may have learned from Yubaba. There is one he used to distract those at the bridge; by blowing into his fingers, white petals fly out. He also used some type of restorative/boosting spell when he healed Chihiro who's unable to move her legs. I do think this is what enabled Chihiro to run at a faster speed than normal. Like Xavius, the Satyr Lord also said, he was able to temporarily suspend a frog in a dark water bubble. He was also able to render Chihiro invisible to the bathhouse staff while on the bridge, although I'm not sure if this is an effect of the earlier distraction spell or a new one altogether. Lastly, there was one a bit like telepathy, which he used to show Chihiro the way to Kamaji. Well, of course, all of these are just speculation on my part Salamangkero (talk) 09:32, 19 December 2008 (UTC)

• Such as? I'm just curious. I'm trying to create a SSBB moveset for Haku. --Kid Sonic (talk) 23:47, 7 December 2008 (UTC)
  • The only one I can recall right now is when he paralyzed that little frog person in mid air and encased him in a blackish bubble for a while. Xavius, the Satyr Lord (talk) 12:51, 17 December 2008 (UTC)
  • He has some vareity of enchanting abilities, as he did with the food to give Chihiro her strength back. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Tryx3 (talk • contribs) 04:13, 28 February 2009 (UTC)

Awards section

• This article needs a "Awards" section with all the information available for this movie. i think in the GAC they will ask for it! OboeCrack (talk) 16:31, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

Rewrite

I think this "The film sees a sullen ten-year-old girl in the middle of her family's move to the suburbs wander into a world ruled by gods, witches, and monsters; where humans are changed into animals; and a bathhouse for these creatures." sholud be rewriten. I think is so long. OboeCrack (talk) 01:30, 18 April 2009 (UTC)

Fixed. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.33.174.133 (talk) 22:48, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

Rewrite

Just a notice, to anyone involved with this article, that User:World Cinema Writer and I are discussing a rewrite of this article here. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 14:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

Non-free image removal

File:Spirited Away Kaonashi.jpg is an unnecessary fair-use image with insufficient rationale (the image description page says nothing about why the image is necessary for this article) and should be deleted. I will remove and delete it in a couple days if there are no objections. rʨanaɢ ^talk/_contribs 14:27, 20 October 2009 (UTC)

subtitled version?

I seem to remember that this film was first released to theaters in the US in a subtitled version, at least thats what i remember viewing. any info on that release? Mercurywoodrose (talk) 20:21, 26 October 2009 (UTC)

Worldwide gross

Resolved

How can the worldwide gross be $364,869,236 ? According to http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=intl&id=spiritedaway.htm] the domestic gross is 10 million dollars and the foreign total is 264 million. How does this add up to 364million? RoyimDB (talk) 16:08, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

That is a good question. It seems this figure (and others) was changed by an IP editor. No alternative source was provided and there was no explanation for the change. I did a quick check to find a source for 364 million but could not find one. I have changed the figures back to what is stated in the citations. Thank you and welcome to Wikipedia. - kollision (talk) 17:26, 7 December 2009 (UTC)

Awkward Translation of Title

It seems to me that the "literal" translation of the title is worded as awkwardly as possible. "The Spiriting Away of Sen and Chihiro," or "Sen and Chihiro's Mysterious Disappearance," would both be faithful literal translations, and not quite so clumsy. Ninja housewife (talk) 19:28, 25 March 2010 (UTC)

I disagree with the first suggestion, since it seems to alter the subject of the title. Depending on how you read it, the Japanese title may be interpreted as either "Sen, and Chihiro's Spiriting Away", or "Sen and Chihiro's Spiriting Away." The first suggestion reverses the subjects. I don't think "Mysterious Disappearance" makes much of a difference compared to "Spiriting Away." It didn't sound awkward to me. - Zero1328 _Talk? 08:40, 28 March 2010 (UTC)

Names in Katakana

Why are some of the names given in (phonetic) Katakana, even though they are actually descriptive? Shouldn't they be in Kanji, then? (e.g. Susuwatari: 煤渡り instead of ススワタリ) Also, wouldn't the "Kohaku" river be the "amber" river (琥珀)? (And "Kohakonushi" 琥珀主 = "Kohaku" guardian spirit) -- megA (talk) 10:30, 22 April 2010 (UTC)

Names

The article states that loosing one's name is from the Neverending Story. The idea that a name holds power over a person comes from traditions a lot older than the Neverending Story. I forget specificly which religion it is or was though, but I think there are a few.

Ancient Egyptians believed they needed their name to reach the afterlife. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 122.107.90.119 (talk) 07:55, 11 September 2010 (UTC)

Guy in Yellow Shirt

What's the name of the guy in the yellow shirt? Who voiced him? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.163.61.190 (talk) 20:49, 11 August 2010 (UTC)

DVD bonus features

The English version's DVD has interviews talking about the dubbing process, including writing an English version that fit the way the Japanese animated characters' mouths moved. Might be useful for the article. --- c y m r u . l a s s ^{(talk me, stalk me)} 03:03, 27 February 2011 (UTC)

Close paraphrasing

I have removed close paraphrasing (see WP:PARA) of a source here and then again here. The source is located here. Just a heads-up for other editors. --- c y m r u . l a s s ^{(talk me, stalk me)} 01:56, 28 February 2011 (UTC)

Bathhouse as a Brothel

According to this article, the bathhouse in the movie is actually a brothel. This seems to be confirmed by the Google translation of the Japanese wiki article

If someone can find a reputable, English-language source that confirms this, it should be added to the article. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 198.151.130.67 (talk) 06:29, 10 April 2011 (UTC)

Yubaba Bird

Does anyone know if it has a name? It should be added to the characters section, given it is a main character, but the closest thing to a name I have been able to finde is Yu-Bird, which may just be a fan name? Vuvuzela2010 (talk) 23:22, 23 April 2011 (UTC)

DVD prite date error

The DVD's official release date is April 15, 2003, I know that. However, my copy has a print date of April 21, 2003. What does this mean? Jonghyunchung (talk) 18:36, 27 May 2011 (UTC)

Nothing at all. A printing date is different from a release (or sale) date. Your copy was just in a later print run. - Zero1328 _Talk? 02:07, 28 May 2011 (UTC)

No-Face eats an Akaname

A couple of nights ago when I watched Spirited Away on IFC, I couldn't help thinking that much of what I was seeing must be suggestive of Japanese fairy tales that would probably be known to an average Japanese person.

I think I did recognize one such creature: the Akaname a harmless frog-like creature that licks bathroom surfaces clean with it's tongue.

That's the first creature No-Face eats. It confused me that No-Face eats the Akaname who didn't seem particularly greedy, and then doesn't eat the people who feed him until later on. I don't really understand No-Face's motivations, nor do I understand why Sen would think feeding No-Face the emetic was a good idea. It probably makes sense if you are familiar with more Japanese fairy tales.

The reason I think she fed it to him is she knew it was a healing substance and she felt that his soul needed some healing. Turns out she was right =) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.255.250 (talk) 20:45, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

English adaptation

Most of this section is copied word for word from the reference article. Moreover, it's poorly written and the tone is unencyclopedic. This section could use a rewrite. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.179.100.46 (talk) 21:15, 20 May 2009 (UTC)

i dont think this makes sense about box office

Box office

Spirited Away was released in Japan in July 2001, drawing an audience of around 23 million and revenues of ¥30 billion (approx. US$300 million),[citation needed] to become the highest-grossing film in Japanese history (surpassing the film Princess Mononoke for highest grossing animated motion pictures). It was the first film to have earned $200 million at the worldwide box office before opening in the United States.[14] By 2002, a sixth of the Japanese population had seen it.

The film was dubbed into English by Walt Disney Pictures, under the supervision of Pixar's John Lasseter. It was subsequently released in the United States on September 20, 2002 and had made slightly over $10 million by September 2003.[15] The film grossed US$274,925,095 worldwide.[16]

So if it has made the equivalant of 300 million dollars as it says in the first line then why does the gross revenue box say about 2 hundred and something million, also the rest of the text is filled with conflicting information. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 90.218.69.150 (talk) 18:36, 30 April 2010 (UTC)

That's not conflicting... it said the Japanese Version made almost 300 million while the english dubbed version made 274 million. Just gotta read close. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.161.255.250 (talk) 20:51, 1 July 2011 (UTC)

GA Push

All right. I am intending to make this article a Good Article. There are a few things we still need to touch up upon:

• Lead section - looks good, at least three-four paragraphs long.
• Plot section - looks good as well with the wording between 400-700 words per WP:FILMPLOT.
• Cast section - looks pretty good.
• Production section - also looks good, the NTV special on Spirited Away can be referenced in regards to specific production works and also add Japanese sources as well, as this film is originally from Japan.
• Music section - include detail on score from Japanese interviews and sources.
• Reception section - add notable critic reviews from Japanese and English sources, other than that, looks good.

Any other suggestions or ideas on how to help make this article to GA should be very much appreciated. Thanks, Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 04:07, 2 September 2011 (UTC)

Plot section is actually 864 words. I had trimmed it down without removing context the best I could a few months ago to around that number from over 900. Should it undergo another trim? I also read somewhere that Spirited Away is rife with important themes, they could be addressed as well. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 18:26, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

I trimmed it down to at least 755 words. Would that work? If not, should we trim it down some more if possible? Darth Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:21, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Back in 2009 another editor approached me at making a GA push for this article, but later disappeared. For what it's worth, though, here are the comments I gave him at the time. I'm not sure if they all still apply since this was two years ago, but it would probably be good to take a look and address these things before a GA reviewer does. rʨanaɢ (talk) 21:31, 3 September 2011 (UTC)

Metaphor for prostitution?

Any comments for this source? http://japattack.com/japattack/film/spiritedaway.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 92.229.41.109 (talk) 15:30, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

Themes and archetypes

A recent addition states "The movie also contains several passing references to Michael Ende's work The Neverending Story" However, the list is not so much "references" as it is oblique similarities. There is no cite that Miyazaki had this in mind when writing the script. --Bridgecross (talk) 13:11, 9 July 2012 (UTC)

Plot length

Per IllaZilla's recent comments at the peer review. The plot summary is too long at 12 paragraphs and 757 words. As the film does not seem to have a complex plot, we should reduce it down to at least 500-550 words in maybe 4 medium-length paragraphs, which would seem an appropriate length for summarizing the film. Thoughts? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 19:13, 14 September 2012 (UTC)

I feel that as a consequence for trying to make the summary as short as possible, important plot points are omitted and it begins to lose meaning, making the reader cease to understand what is going on. There's a tradeoff between length and making it fully understandable (without excessive details) to someone who has never seen the film before. While 500-550 words should be the goal, it shouldn't be so strict. If it can't be comprehensively told in 500-550 words, then it doesn't hurt to make it a little longer. I expanded the final twos paragraph somewhat to try to fill in the gaps. --ThomasO1989 (talk) 06:31, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

I don't have a problem with that. WP:FILMPLOT notes that sometimes there are going to be exceptions to the 700 word guideline (which 757 was already close enough to and I'm surprised Illa thought it was a problem). Thinking back on this film I would assume this summary would land in the 700-800 range. It's kind of a complex little piece. Millahnna (talk) 07:08, 25 September 2012 (UTC)

This version was less than 700 words and contained all the major plot points. Ozob (talk) 00:46, 2 October 2012 (UTC)

Spirited Away is Shinto anime. localization version "deletes influence of Shinto?

spirit(American version) is called "yaoyorozu no kami" by an edition in Japan.

The American version deletes the influence of shinto in pokemon. original Japanese version posts a lot of reference to Shinto(kami and hokora).

An American likes deleting shinto from a Japanese product.　Does an American dislike Japanese religion? 220.104.44.113 (talk) 04:38, 1 October 2012 (UTC)

Changes In English Version Section?

There should be a section regarding changes in the English version of the film. I know there has got to be a few of them. Perhaps many. In-Correct (talk) 10:18, 21 October 2012 (UTC)

Themes sources

Just so everyone is aware, there is a lot of useful information that can be found through Google Scholar if anyone wants to expand the themes section. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:52, 23 November 2012 (UTC)

FA discussion

Hahc21 (talk · contribs) and I have agreed to work on Spirited Away as a joint work. At some point, this article will undergo a peer review before we take this to FA status. References to use can go up at the top as well under the #References to use section. All are welcome to assist in this process. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:24, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

I've added some references that I found through WorldCat.org. These are mainly books or chapters within books. As you pointed out above, Google Scholar has more results. I also pasted results from the British Film Institute's Film Index International here. I may be able to access some of the Google Scholar and Film Index International references virtually, but I'd have to make a trip to retrieve any of the books and get screenshots of the relevant pages. Let me know what you can personally access and hope that this will be a successful collaboration! Erik (talk | contribs) 14:06, 30 December 2012 (UTC)

Thanks for the helpful information. I think this will be useful for me. Best wishes, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:00, 5 January 2013 (UTC)

Spirited Away is Religion animation(SHINTO).

When a symbol of CHRIST is in ANIME, the European reflects it for an article willingly. When Japanese culture is described in ANIME, you underestimate it.

A reference to SHINTO was deleted by localization. However, it is SHINTO ANIME by the edition in Japan. Why is SHINTO not explained by an article?

Does Wikipedia give priority to a localization version?211.122.250.144 (talk) 16:28, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I do not know for sure, but using all-caps tends to be shouting and yelling, and no one likes to be yelled at. Also, can you find a source for the film where they have the Shinto references? Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:02, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

words reference(KAMI,YAOYOROZU NO KAMI,HOKORA.)

It is said that the bathhouse is for "Yaoyorozu no Kami(shinto gods)" by Yubaba.

"Nigihayami Kohakunushi" is KAMI(shinto god) like name by Chihiro.

Visual reference(Torii,Hokora,Shide,Miko,Shinto priest costume) 211.122.250.144 (talk) 18:44, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

But is that reliable? You may also want to read up on WP:FILMPLOT and also, content must be verifiable or it will be deleted as WP:OR. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 18:49, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Japanese wikipedia(Spirited Away page)http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%8D%83%E3%81%A8%E5%8D%83%E5%B0%8B%E3%81%AE%E7%A5%9E%E9%9A%A0%E3%81%97

Can you trust Japanese Wikipedia page(Spirited Away)? It is explained Shinto Gods by the wikipedia in Japan. The Japanese watches an Japanese version.

211.122.250.144 (talk) 19:13, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

About a name of original soundtrack. Is this translation official?

Track7 Procession of the Spirits (神さま達, Kamisama-tachi?)　It is KAMI by the edition in Japan. However, it is spirit in localize. 211.122.250.144 (talk) 19:27, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a reliable source per WP:SPS. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 20:30, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

In true name "Nigihayami Kohakunushi", where is a source of information? The original Japanese version becomes the source of Wikipedia.

In original Japanese version, there is a reference in Shinto.

"Lord Sjones23", please do not talk anymore. He cannot understand an Japanese version.

211.122.250.144 (talk) 21:54, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Please do not make baseless arguments about me. I am asking an uninvolved user and WP:FILM coordinator, Erik, about the situation. I am also an anime fan and I can understand the Japanese version very well. Also, can you please try to be more coherent? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:54, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

I am also an anime fan here, Im not sure about the Shinto bit but do know that Miazaki puts a lot of symbolism in his works so im not sure if there is some confusion there. - Knowledgekid87 (talk) 23:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Wikipedia requires WP:VERIFIABLE WP:RSs for entry of information in its articles. At the moment the IP is engaged in Original Research and WP:SPECULATION. Miyazaki's inclusion of religious symbolism will need and outside source to back it up. As popular as this film was at the time of its release, and still is for that matter, it should be possible to find sources to back up any proposed entries. MarnetteD | Talk 02:02, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

Not entirely sure about this[4] but this[5] definitely looks like a reliable source. Siawase (talk) 18:48, 1 May 2013 (UTC)

Plot

I must say the woever wrote the plot did a wonderful job in doing so! :)

I agree. So many film articles on Wikipedia (especially animation) are nearly shot-for-shot descriptions as told by a child. This plot section is letter-perfect. --Bridgecross (talk) 16:15, 26 June 2013 (UTC)

Character page?

I removed this part, but wouldn't this be good on a character list page? "A worker at the bathhouse who becomes Chihiro's caretaker, identified as the transformed spirit of a Sable (weasel);"

I'm not sure, but the identity of the character's spirit (something the viewer never sees) is a bit out of place here. While of some use to a character page, I cannot find it of value on this page. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 14:25, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure myself, but unfortunately at this point, I feel that a character list is not really needed. I think that, as I am one of the top contributors of the article (nobody is owning it of course), cast list should use character descriptions and include interviews and background information about how the characters are cast per WP:MOSFILM#Cast. I would like to quote this guidline:

Actors and their roles can be presented and discussed in different forms in film articles depending on three key elements: 1) the prominence of the cast in the film, 2) the amount of real-world context for each cast member or the cast as a whole, and 3) the structure of the article. Editors are encouraged to lay out such content in a way that best serves readers for the given topic. If necessary, build toward a consensus. The key elements are discussed in detail:

1. A film's cast may vary in size and in importance. A film may have an ensemble cast, or it may only have a handful of actors. Wikipedia is not an indiscriminate collection of information, so it is encouraged to name the most relevant actors and roles with the most appropriate rule of thumb for the given film: billing, speaking roles, named roles, cast lists in reliable sources, blue links (in some cases), etc. If there are many cast members worth identifying, there are two recommended options: the names may be listed in two or three columns, or the names may be grouped in prose.
2. The real-world context about actors and their roles may vary by film. Real-world context may be about how the role was written, how the actor came to be cast for the role, and what preparations were necessary for filming. Development of a film article means a basic cast list may evolve into a bulleted list with several sentences devoted to each person. In other cases, a list may be maintained and be accompanied by prose that discusses only a handful of cast members.
3. The structure of the article may also influence form. A basic cast list in a "Cast" section is appropriate for the majority of Stub-class articles. When the article is in an advanced stage of development, information about the cast can be presented in other ways. A "Cast" section may be maintained but with more detailed bulleted entries, or a table or infobox grouping actors and their roles may be placed in the plot summary or in the "Casting" subsection of a "Production" section. Use tables with care due to their complexity; they are most appropriate for developed, stable articles. (Tables are also recommended to display different casts, such as a Japanese-language voice cast and a English-language voice cast in a Japanese animated film.)

If roles are described outside of the plot summary, keep such descriptions concise. Interpretations in the form of labels (e.g. protagonist, villain, main character) should be avoided. A well-written plot summary should convey such roles. Also, per Wikipedia's Manual of Style on boldface, please limit boldface to table headers and captions. Actors and roles should not be bolded.

For an example of what a cast list should look like, please see Fight Club#Casting (an FA) and Summer Wars#Cast (a GA, which I worked on extensively), as well as the cast sections of Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country and Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan, two Featured articles in the Star Trek series. Thoughts? Also, you may want to note that I am doing an offline redraft of the article for FA status. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 15:34, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Hmm... knowing how A&M loves to axe cast lists, I didn't want to mess it up and some of the material was a bit redundant with the really brief character descriptions. Should I make it prose and list the major characters only? That being said - if you are working on an offline version for FA - is there a problem with trying to GA it in the mean time?

I have absolutely no problem with it being nominated for GA and I think the cast list should be in prose with a list of major characters. You may want to find some production information on how the actors were approached as well, and their thoughts on the characters. :-) Hope for the best, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 16:36, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

I have the 2 Disc DVD set which has some special features - I'll see if anything worthwhile is on that. I've been meaning to get through Cinema Anime as well, but I am sadly sick right now, but I'll see what I can dig up. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 17:09, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

No hurries, please take your time. Just to clarify, as per WP:GAN/I, "Articles can be nominated by anyone, though it is highly preferable that they have contributed significantly and are familiar with the subject." So basically, if one wants to nominate an article, the editor may want to consult major contributors who are familiar with the subject of the article before nominating them for GA. I hope this helps out somewhat. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:17, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

I am quite familiar with the subject material... I think fixing a few errors goes a long way to proving that, but its not some contest or anything. I actually own two versions of Spirited Away - one in original Japanese. Though I do like your casting idea, but I can't get any information on the casting. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 03:00, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Of course. If we can't get any information on casting or production, we should ask other people familiar with the subject for help. I do not think we do not want to maintain ownership of the article (hint: I am a major contributor to this particular article, along with Rjanag, and have worked on getting Summer Wars, a film article, up to GA status myself, but have never owned any type of article since I am a member for 6 years and over 50,000 edits to my credit). The ultimate goal for the article is to have it featured as a WP:TFA on July 20, 2016, the 15th anniversary of the film's premiere. You may also want to take a look at Wikipedia:WikiProject Films/Resources to see what types of resources we use for film articles like this one. However, I think we should use some Japanese sources as well, since I am an expert at reading Japanese material and Spirited Away is a Japanese-language film. I'll go around and ask others to see if they can help. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:15, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

That's helpful. I might need your translating ability. I'll try to stick to English material since I cannot read or translate Japanese effectively. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:13, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Accolades

I will plan to expand the Accolades section as well. We should use the following articles as reference points: Toy Story, Thor, The Avengers, Summer Wars. I think we should find more sources for accolades (Japan and International, but we cannot really use IMDB as a reliable source). Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:27, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

As I note below in the Award section, even typically reliable sources seem to parrot Wikipedia or IMDB. I am afraid everything will need to be confirmed with a high quality source. I was lucky to get the Variety post for the Cinekid's. I had almost given up hope after Cinekid's oldest publications popped up. Moving to prose seems like a good idea. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:28, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Themes

The themes section needs to be expanded on as well. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:57, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Added a bit on No-Face who is chronically portrayed as a representation of greed in academia. While it may seem a bit OR, Aogaeru, was the greedy frog who No-Face first consumed. No-Face also gains the appearance and traits of those he consumes as evidenced in the film. The claim that No-Face is greed is rather incorrect as Aogaeru the source of influence, but No-Face does in a way, become an avatar of greed. No-Face's natural and uninfluenced timid nature is the one we see at the beginning and end of the film with specific reference of the power of "influence". No-Face could represent many things, from a child to society itself - so at least academically we need to be accurate. Though I think we should avoid the more dubious political commentary or interests here, as greed and the power to create money is not expressed as such. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:23, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Also, as a reference point, we should use the approach as used in the following articles: Conan the Barbarian (an FA), Star Trek: First Contact (again, an FA) and Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (once again, an FA). Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 17:57, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Reception

The reception section needs to be expanded on with Japanese critics such as the Japan Times. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 03:27, 12 August 2013 (UTC)

Awards

Seems that IMDB and by extension through errors, Wikipedia, has included an award for Spirited Away that it did not receive. It did not win the 15th European Film Awards in 2002. It may have been nommed, but this is a major error. I've cited the rest, officially where possible, with Cinekid being referenced to the Variety post about it (an RS for such material). Everything checks out now. Also... do not use the Japanese Information and Culture Center's publication as I think they did not do proper diligence in sourcing their claims.[6] It parrots the 15th Film Award which was false, so be extra careful in referencing such things. A RS is not always correct. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:08, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

References to use

Here's a list of the following sources compiled by Erik (talk · contribs); these are to be used for this article:

JAMES, Nick: Syndromes of a new century Sight and Sound (0037-4806) v.20 n.2 , February 2010, p.34-38, English, illus A listing of thirty key films of 'cultural significance' from the past ten years, plus an assessment of the countries filmmakers, technologies and trends that are influencing the global cinema of the 21st century.

JOLIN, Dan: Back story: Miyazaki on Miyazaki Empire n.243 , August 2009, p.114-123, English, illus Profile an interview with Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki about his long career, with discussion about the themes and production of many of his films.

BIGELOW, Susan J.: Technologies of perception: Miyazaki in theory and practice Animation (1746-8477) v.4 n.1 , March 2009, p.[55]-75, English Article discussing the work of Japanese animator Hayao Miyazaki and its philosophy, with particular reference to Shinto religious imagery.

SORENSEN, Lars-Martin: The bestseller recipe: a natural explanation of the... Post Script (0277-9897) v.28 n.2 , January 2009, p.16-27, English, illus '...global success of anime'. Theoretical analysis of the global success of anime using evolutionary, cognitive and neuroaesthetic science to try and explain its cross-cultural accessibility.

GOULDING, Jay: Crossroads of Experience: Miyazaki Hayao's Global/Local Nexus Asian Cinema (1059-440X) v.17 n.2 , October 2006, p.114-123, English Looking particularly at two of Miyazaki Hayao's films MONON- OKE HIME (Princess Monoke) and SEN TO CHIHIRO NO KAMIKAKUSHI (Spirited Away) as responses to cultural globalisation -i.e. Japanese culture responding to American and Asian influenc

NATHAN, Ian: At Home/All-Time 100: Month Eight: Family & Animation Empire n.204 , June 2006, p.150-151, English, illus A selection of ten films (either animation or suitable for the whole family) are chosen to be included in a perfect DVD collection of one hundred films.

201 Greatest movies of all time Empire n.201 , March 2006, p.77-88,90-101, English, illus A listing of the top two hundred and one films as chosen by the reader's of Empire magazine. With comments by actors and filmmaker's.

Watch these kids! Cinema Business (1742-7878) n.17 , September 2005, p.34, English, illus A listing of the top ten films recommended for children, following the British Film Institute's 'Watch This!' initia- tive and debate.

REIDER, Noriko T.: Spirited Away: Film of the Fantastic and Evolving Japane... Film Criticism (0163-5069) v.29 n.3 , April 2005, p.4-27, English '...Japanese Folk Symbols'. Analytical review of SEN TO CHIHIRO NO KAMIKAKUSHI (Spirited Away) in which the charact- ers echo those found throughout Japanese folk beliefs and traditions both past and present.

SCHILLING, Mark: The modest monster Screen International (0307-4617) n.1490 , 25 February 2005, p.16, English, illus Profile of Studio Ghibli from its scrappy upstart to its landmark creations by Hayao Miyazaki: SPIRITED AWAY, HOWL'S MOVING CASTLE and PRINCESS MONONOKE.

WRIGHT, Lucy & CLODE, Jerry: The animated worlds of Hayao Miyazaki: filmic representa-... Metro (0312-2654) n.143 , December 2004, p.46-51, English, illus Title ends: '...tions of Shinto'. A study of Hayao Miyazaki's animated work infused with Shintoist references, focusing on NAUSICAA OF THE VALLEY OF THE WINDS and SPIRITED AWAY.

RICHARDS, Olly: Play Empire n.179 , May 2004, p.139, English, illus

The best and worst tv and films of 2003! StarBurst (0955-114X) v.Spec. n.63 , May 2004, p.62-74, English, illus Starburst readers vote for the best and worst tv and films of 2003.

PERSONS, Dan: The Americanization of Anime Cinefantastique (0145-6032) v.36 n.1 , February 2004, p.44-50,71, English, illus on the influence of anime films, particularly AKIRA, on American pop culture. Includes brief descriptions of 10 essential animations.

AOUN, Steven: SPIRITED AWAY Metro (0312-2654) n.138 , October 2003, p.204, English, illus

PETERS, Patrick: The reviews Empire n.172 , October 2003, p.65, English, illus

OSMOND, Andrew: Anime magic Empire n.172 , October 2003, p.100-103, English, illus An illustrated description of Hayao Miyazaki's SPIRITED AWAY, including comments on the film by the director.

National Film Theatre Programmes , September 2003, p.13, English

OSMOND, Andrew: Reviews: the main attraction Sight and Sound (0037-4806) v.13 n.9 , August 2003, p.34-35,64, English, illus

SAUNDERS, Jeremy: Spirited Away Limited Edition Inside Film n.57 , August 2003, p.67, English, illus

DURSIN, Andy: The laserphile: fun fun fun: 'til your daddy takes the ... Film Score Monthly v.8 n.5 , June 2003, p.48, English '...DVDs away...'.

Filmofax Film-Echo/Filmwoche n.21 , 24 May 2003, p.22, German, illus

KEECH, Andrew: Film music review: new films Music from the Movies (0967-8131) n.37 , April 2003, p.24, English, illus Le VOYAGE DE CHIHIRO.

DELORME, Gérard: Le VOYAGE DE CHIHIRO Premiere (0399-3698) n.302 , April 2002, p.36, French, illus Review of Miyazaki's SEN TO CHIHIRO NO KAMIKAKUSHI.

RAYNS, Tony: Trans-Europe expression Sight and Sound (0037-4806) v.12 n.4 , April 2002, p.12-14, English, illus Mini-reviews of 22 films screened at the 2002 Berlin and Rotterdam festivals. Includes review of SEN TO CHIHIRO NO KAMIKAKUSHI.

DELORME, Gérard: MIYAZAKI Premiere (0399-3698) n.302 , April 2002, p.122-126, French, illus Presents a historical background of Ghibli Studio and their latest anime SEN TO CHIHIRO NO KAMIKAKUSHI.

O'NEILL, Eithne; TESSIER, Max; DAHAN, Yannick; NIOGRET, H.: Hayao Miyazaki Positif (0048-4911) n.494 , April 2002, p.5-19, French, illus Dossier on Hayao Miyazaki. Includes review of SEN TO CHIHIRO NO KAMIKAKUSHI; interview with the director; article on the foundation & works of Studio Ghibli; & article diffentiating the 2 mainstream Japanese animation groups.

SCHILLING, Mark: Disney plans Spirited US launch for Ghibli hit. Screen International (0307-4617) n.1347 , 08 March 2002, p.2, English, illus Disney has acquired the US rights for Japanese animated hit SPIRITED AWAY.

McLEAN, Jamie: Score: reviews of current releases on CD Film Score Monthly v.7 n.3 , March 2002, p.46, English

ELLEY, Derek: Film Reviews Variety (0042-2738) , 25 February 2002, p.72, English, illus

Berlin Film Festival Catalogue v.52nd , 06 February 2002, p.54-55, German, illus Credits include production/distribution contact details.

SCHILLING, Mark: Japan: up and running at the turn of the century Cinemaya (0970-8782) n.54/55 , January 2002, p.54-58, English, illus Overview of ten Japanese films screened at the 2001 Cannes Film Festival.

SCHILLING, Mark: SPIRITED AWAY Cinemaya (0970-8782) n.53 , October 2001, p.28-29, English, illus

SCHILLING, Mark: Anime's adventures in wonderland. Screen International (0307-4617) n.1319 , 09 August 2001, p.21, English, illus

Production Focus Japan Screen International (0307-4617) n.1284 , 10 November 2000, p.26, English

Pigs will fly StarBurst (0955-114X) n.259 , March 2000, p.5, English

INTERNATIONAL PRODUCTION Screen International (0307-4617) n.1244 , 04 February 2000, p.33, English

I will try to find and get some of these sources, but quite a few are going to be difficult to grab. Let's discuss the path to FA (as above) and begin outlining what needs to be done before we start targeting offline sources that will be extremely difficult to obtain. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 16:35, 9 August 2013 (UTC)

Jim Hill and cns

Making a citation needed for each sentence is disruptive. Secondly, Jim Hill is an award winning writer of Disney and his blog is considered a RS as a result. Comments like Lasseter being a fan are agreed by other interviews and pieces on Turner Classic Movies (good luck getting THAT source back), so rather than make something you cannot verify or even pull up, Jim Hill is a good example for "Advertising was limited" - That was proven with the other cite as well. "Disney had sidelined their official website for Spirited Away and it remains hidden" is accurate, unless you can prove otherwise. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 03:59, 17 August 2013 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Spirited Away/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: 1ST7 (talk · contribs) 20:11, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

Initial comments will be posted soon. --1ST7 (talk) 20:11, 1 September 2013 (UTC)

I did some copyediting; I hope you don't mind. Here's the review:

1. Well-written

   • This is a bit of a run-on sentence: "The family enters a magical world and her father insists on exploring and they cross a dry riverbed."
   • This is too: "After Chihiro saves No-Face with the emetic dumpling, he becomes timid once more, Zeniba takes care of No-Face so he can develop without the negative influence of the bath house."

2. Verifiable with no original research:

   • The "Music" section needs sources.
   • "The bonus features include Japanese trailers, a making-of documentary which originally aired on Nippon Television, interviews with the North American voice actors, a select storyboard-to-scene comparison and The Art of Spirited Away, a documentary narrated by actor Jason Marsden." Can you add a citation for this?

3. Broad in its coverage:

   • Article is focused and appears to cover all of the main aspects of the topic.

4. Neutral:
5. Stable:

   • No edit wars, etc.

6. Illustrated, if possible, by images:

   • All images look good.

Aside from these issues, the article looks ready for promotion. I don't think it's necessary to place this on hold as the issues can be addressed pretty quickly. Thanks for your work! --1ST7 (talk) 00:01, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Should be all set now, I kinda source bombed a few things with the Japanese originals where possible, but I had to fall back on Anime Nation for the Tokyo International Anime Fair. For some reason, the 17th Japan Gold Disc Award was listed as the 16th... assuming someone's good faith error, but its verifiable and in English for easy access. I had difficulty in citing the awards before nominating, but the information was accurate and just took some extreme searching to get. I cited the Disney Press release for the special features, it doesn't list Marsden as narrator for the The Art of Spirited Away special feature, but it lists the feature. Assuming that is perfectly fine as the disc itself would be needed otherwise. As for the Nippon Television special it is not listed on the press release, but if you possess a copy you will see it for yourself. Secondly, you could check your local library which will list it in the DVD contents list. Sorry... but there was no other way to cite it without making it a primary. Any other concerns? ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:06, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Everything looks good now, so I'm passing the article. Congratulations, and thanks again for your work on it. --1ST7 (talk) 04:44, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Thank you, but a lot of the credit goes to Sjones, I merely decided to push it forward. Most of my work was the themes, and sourcing the unsourced information. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 05:09, 2 September 2013 (UTC)

Theme of prostitution

To address the attempts to add that SA is about prostitution (and more specifically child prostitution at the time in Japan), we need reliable sources that state this was a theme - or reliable expert sources that note this as a possible theme. I certainly note that there are more than enough web sources that make the connection but these are not reliable sources (the most recognizable one being Cracked, but Cracked is not reliable here). I do see that in the past that the connection of SA to prostitution has been a point of minimal contention, but again, this does not affirm this was an intentional theme of the movie. Without these sources, we're engaging in original research. --MASEM (t) 22:38, 28 November 2013 (UTC)

Written and endorsed by people who not only know nothing of the language or theme, but reject the actual discussion and story surrounding the film. I've read this theory, but its entirely based on very contrived conclusions starting with the most basic of things. The term "Yuna" here as archaic does indeed have a double meaning. Like "John". Now unless someone can give me more than some uncited claim purported to have been uttered by Miyazaki and connected to the film - I'll have none of it. Miyazaki has gone on record numerous times including about Sen herself making his characters less desirable so they would not be sexualized. What you have here is someone who knows nothing of Miyazaki or his heroines or that he is a man who self-acknowledges his own feminist leanings. You expect me to believe that everything in the film and expressed by the staff, production, academics have all avoided the "obvious". I am not convinced. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 02:05, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

That's what I'm saying. Everything I saw about the connection of SA to prostitution is all in fringe/urban theories, and outside of the studio having to defend itself from such claims, not really appropriate to include. On the other hand, if someone of the expert caliber of Roger Ebert said "I see this connection", that's something, though we'd have to be clear that it was a reviewer's opinion and not one from the studio. Of course, that said, I saw nothing even approaching this, and thus I don't think we need to worry about this inclusion. --MASEM (t) 06:45, 29 November 2013 (UTC)

At least not anymore than the theory that the Rugrats was all in Tommy's head, Fosters Home for Imaginary Friends is all in the mind of an autistic Frankie or any of the other lenses applied to a work. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 02:39, 30 November 2013 (UTC)

Names of parents

Per this edit I changed the names of the parents to match the names used in the Japanese Wikipedia. "Akiichiro" and "Ichiyuko" do not sound plausible. "Akio" and "Yuko" are plausible. WhisperToMe (talk) 17:39, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

The official English book uses Akio Ogino and Yuko Ogino. Nausicaa.net uses "Yuuko", but that's not too big of a deal. I think the issue stems from the Wikia from Spirited away which uses the kanji, but I am not certain if that's correct. If its an issue I'll load up my DVD and check, but I think the official English name should be reflected. [7] ChrisGualtieri (talk) 18:10, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

Official website

I'm not a fan of using an archive of a website and labeling it as the "official website" - its outright deceptive for numerous reasons to our readers. I prefer the official and live Disney page over a 2002 archive as a result. External links are very easy to follow and they need to be appropriately marked as such. The argument that the official link is bad because it promotes the film is weak and to make an argument per "WP:EL" while using WP:ELNO is a bit shady because the bold text at the beginning states "Except for a link to an official page of the article's subject,[4] one should generally avoid providing external links to:" - This is official. This is fine. Do not give me a decade's old archive link in an attempt to cover up the current and active official one. When an official site goes down, you can mark one as an archive if applicable - but you can't do this under "best practices". ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:09, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Have to agree here to avoid the archived link. If there is something on the old promo site that this article needs (keeping in mind primary sourcing issues), then we can use the archived site as the reference link, but as an external link it doesn't make sense. --MASEM (t) 04:16, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

The problem is the "official site" has a brief synopsis and a link to but the DVD and nothing else. In other words it adds nothing of value to the article and, thus, violates WP:EL in several respects. The old promo site at least has links to trailers for the film. I was trying to find a compromise but if you can't manage without the sales site please feel free to restore it. It wont be the only junk EL on WikiP. MarnetteD | Talk 04:28, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

Official is official - I don't care if its an ad for a juicer or some other site, its the official website and whether or not the website gives information or tries to get sales it remains the official website. I don't know why this is a difficult matter - by your logic - we would remove all the official links to major retailer websites including Amazon.com because it goes directly to the website to get you to buy things. Same with eBay and almost any other official movie website location - information on it and how to buy it. External links that are not official are supposed to possess content value, yes, but the information and/or marketing matters of an official link is not a reason to put up a 12 year old movie theater promotional site instead - it is really misleading. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 04:39, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

We can link to the trailers iff they are legally uploaded by the copyright holders and they aren't available on the website. That's reasonable. to include. I'm thinking more like if they had things like concept art, production information, etc. that would be appropriate "additional material" to link to. --MASEM (t) 04:58, 21 March 2014 (UTC)

The Box Office Mojo figure for the Japanese box office

An IP is repeatedly reverting to an outdated figure for Spirited Away. Box Office Mojo have the following figures for Spirited Away:

• Domestic: $10 million
• Foreign: $264 million (including $229 million from Japan, dated 2002).

However, the BOM figure for the Japanese gross is outdated and later sources state that Spirited Away ending up grossing far more than what BOM states.

• Anime Poster Art: Japan's Movie House Masterpieces (Cocoro Books, 2003) states that Spirited Away earned $300 million at the Japanese box-office.
• Variety: Big summer pics in Japan, however, can rack up humongous numbers by any standard, such as the $290 million earned by the Hayao Miyazaki toon “Spirited Away” in 2001.
• The Wall Street Journal: Walt Disney's Frozen has surpassed ¥21.2 billion (about $212 million) in box office sales as of this week and now ranks as the third-highest-grossing movie ever in Japan, according to the company ... Having topped Harry Potter and the Sorcerer’s Stone, Frozen now trails only Titanic, which opened in 1997 and grossed ¥26.2 billion, and Hayao Miyazaki's Spirited Away, which opened in 2001 and brought in ¥30.4 billion, according to the Motion Picture Producers Association of Japan Inc.

All of the above sources seem perfectly valid to me and BOM doesn't get to trump the likes of Variety and The Wall Street Journal. Contrary to the IP's claims Box Office Mojo is not an official source so there is no reason to give it preferential treatment over other sources. Betty Logan (talk) 20:05, 2 July 2014 (UTC)

I have semi-protected this page for 2 days. If the IP editor who keeps changing IPs wants to change the article they can discuss it here. Chillum 22:10, 3 July 2014 (UTC)

I agree with Betty. However, your sources indicate 300, so why you added 340 ([8])? Gabriel Yuji (talk) 00:16, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Here, by the way, is a link to the original MPPAJ figure of 30.4 billion yen: [9]. The MPPAJ has long been the main official source for BO info. Michitaro (talk) 02:26, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Is 30.4 billion yen converted to $340 million or $304 million? Gabriel Yuji (talk) 05:00, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

I calculated that to be close to $297 million dollars. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 05:19, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

So based on these three sources should we use something like "290–300 million", right? Gabriel Yuji (talk) 06:02, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Think so. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 06:12, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

In relation to the 340 figure, I should clarify that Box Office Mojo also included over $40 million (up to 2002) from other countries. The 30 billion yen figure is for Japan only, so I added on the other $40 million to get an approximate figure for the global takings. It's a convention on film articles the global total goes in the infobox. Betty Logan (talk) 06:17, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

興収304億円 (corresponding with 動員2350万人) covers Japanese domestic box office - numbers as of July 2004. Source: "The Complete Miyazaki Hayao" by Kano Seiji, page 247. Edit after a look at page edit history: The IP poster refers to March 31, 2002 as the last day the film was in Japanese theatres - for that date Kano lists 興収300億5891万5500円 (corresponding with 動員2323万243人). Kano lists a further 2 dates in 2002 (April 6-May 24 in the Kanto region) for a 309 day theatrical run total nation-wide but doesn't provide box office numbers for those additional dates. Kano's table ends with the entry for July 2004 mentioned before.Verso.Sciolto (talk) 09:58, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Ok, Betty. Now I see. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 15:00, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Hello Betty. Regarding adding the box office data up to get a new answer, I just wanted to point out part of our orignial research policy WP:SYNTH which talks about combinining sources to create a new fact. It would be better to provide the two bits of information seperately than to combine them I think. Chillum 16:41, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

Per WP:CALC you are allowed to make simple arithmetic calculations so I think simply adding two numbers together would fall under this rule; that said I am happy to abide by the prevailing opinion on this since it is not a huge sticking point for me and I am more interested in getting correct data. Googling for more information on this topic I discovered this very same debate on this box-office forum (6 posts down with the graphs); now I am aware that a forum posting is not RS but their analysis (where they consult the Japanese sources directly) lead them to a total of $249 million for the Japanese gross. Part of the problem is that the exchange rate was fluctuating wildy during this film's run, and the problem is exacerbated by the fact that while everyone knows how much it made in Japan no-one seems to agree on when it made it, which affects the dollar conversion. Pretty much everyone agrees that BOM is low-balling it, although going by their numbers it seems $300 million is too high. It is very likely that BOM only tracked it during the American release since the Japanese totals imply it made quite a bit more money. I think having a range is the most neutral solution here given the conflict between the sources; when you have lots of different sources doing currency conversions at different times you are not likely to get a figure everyone agrees on. Betty Logan (talk) 17:32, 4 July 2014 (UTC)

No Face monster is also Noh Face monster

This is a really good article, but it appears to be missing something obvious.

"Noh" is a form of Japanese classical dance theatre. They often wear stylised masks known as "Noh" faces (pronounced the same as "no")

"No face monster" is a double entendre; he is wearing a mask very similar to the stylised ones worn during Noh theatre (And in fact I think it is an actual mask from one of the plays; I have a vague feeling I saw it before but I don't know them well enough to remember which one. Perhaps someone else can find it?)

Remember also that Studio Ghibli is a Japanese company - there is no way this was an accident or unintentional!

I hope the writer of the article (Or someone else, not myself) can add it to the page.

I don't feel there's a need to cite sources - Wikipedia itself contains info about Noh theatre and masks.

Thank you - James.

27.46.141.122 (talk) 14:04, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

It is not a "double entendre" because it is a plain pun, and it does not hold up in Japanese. 能面 or 面 is used for Noh Masks, the "Noh/No" vocalization exists in English. In Japanese, his name is カオナシ - kaonashi - faceless. The name is not "No Face" in Japanese. The decision to have the English name of "No-Face" sounds better than "Faceless" and is just able to carry the pun "Noh-Face". Now... Noh masks are very fleshy and are meant to convey motion or have identity - its clear Kaonashi is wearing a mask, but given the nature and actions of Kaonashi that the primary purpose in the film. Just like claims the film is about Sen becoming a prostitute and the entire film being very dark are English rooted. However, you are correct in the base assumption, but a Noh Mask WAS considered. Masashi, the creator, intentionally made Kaonashi expressionless and does note that it would have been helpful to convey emotion through lighting and angles (like in Noh Theater). The problem is that a Noh Mask - a very clear one - was used by the Great River Spirit - you see this in the film and there is also a Japanese expression that relates to a persons inscrutability when likened to a Noh Mask. Kaonashi is not inscrutable, either. Though, No Face and the rampage is similar to Inuyasha's Noh Masked foe, it may be a stretch to term the mask "Noh" when even its creator retroactively indicated it would have been an interesting direction to take. ChrisGualtieri (talk) 15:35, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

I think you're wrong on all points about this. From Wikipedia itself: "A double entendre is a figure of speech or a particular way of wording that is devised to be understood in either of two ways, having a double meaning. Typically one of the interpretations is rather obvious whereas the other is more subtle". What do you mean by saying it's not a double entendre because it's a "plain pun"? There *are* two intentions; The obvious one is he is "no face" because he has no face, just a mask; the second more subtle is that he is "noh face" because his face is a noh mask or looks like a noh mask. You cannot get a much clearer example of a double entendre than that; it seems to conform exactly to Wikipedia's own definition. Also, even if it was a just a plain pun (An idea I disagree with), wouldn't it be informative to alert readers to the similarity of "no" and "noh"? And point out that no-face's mask looks very like some Noh masks?

Saying it's a stretch to term the mask "Noh" - a google/bing/yahoo search brings up many masks labeled as "noh"; some are very similar to Kaonashi in that they are stylised rather than fleshy. Many even have a similar high-contrast color scheme. There actually seem to be more stylised, high contrast masks like noh-face than the more fleshy masks. I searched for "Noh masks" on Yahoo and Bing. (Unfortunately I cannot do google searches..)

You say that Kaonishi is not "inscrutable" ... how so? Definition of inscrutable: 1. incomprehensible; mysterious or enigmatic .. I would say he is the most inscrutable,mysterious and enigmatic person in the film. You cannot tell what he looks like as he is completely cloaked, he never actually speaks, he is permanently masked. Why is he not then inscrutable?

I have a question: Are you the main maintainer or original writer of this page? I am curious....

You say the original creator indicated it would have been an interesting direction to take. Do you have a link to that so I can check the actual text?

Thanks... 27.46.141.30 (talk) 11:09, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Adaptation?

Dubbing a film in another language is not an adaptation. Adaptation implies that you make a completly new work based on a previous one. Or am I wrong? Luka1184 (talk) 18:55, 9 January 2015 (UTC)

Hmm... you're right about the wording being a bit funky. It's not an adaptation, it's a translation, so maybe uses of adaptation in that paragraph should be changed to translation. Anybody else have thoughts on this? Luthien22 (talk) 04:19, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Agree with you both. It's not an adaptation, so the currently wording is a little misleading. Would English dub work? That's probably the best way to describe it. Melonkelon (talk) 04:27, 25 January 2015 (UTC)

Box office data

There seems to be a discrapency in the article regarding the worldwide box office results of the movie. The article claims that Spirited Away grossed $330 million, but source no. 3 gives a different data, all ranging from 270 to 290 million. Unless the source can be clarified or another one presented, I suggest the box office results should be revised downwards to $290 million, accordingly.--Seiya (talk) 08:04, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

The $290 million relates to the Japanese gross only. There is another $40 million from other territories too. This is fully explained in the box office section. Betty Logan (talk) 08:33, 4 October 2015 (UTC)

There seems to be a problem due to a synthesis of two contradictory sources. Reference no. 3 in the article gives several sources for the gross. I guess you mean the Variety source that claims a $290 million gross, but it is ambiguous since it is not clear if it means a gross in Japan only, or worldwide. The article then uses Box Office Mojo to add a further $40 million. But Box Office Mojo is clear in saying that the movie grossed only $230 million in Japan, not $290 million as it is claimed, and further $35 million. Combining these two sources, with two different numbers, and only giving a maximum estimate without acknowledging that the gross maybe lower ($264 million worldwide, as Box Office Mojo claims), is uneven and possibly gives way to speculation.--Seiya (talk) 11:15, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

If you take the time to examine the sources there is no contradiction between Variety and Box Office Mojo if you compare the dates. The reason Box Office Mojo has a lower figure for Japan is simply because it stopped tracking it earlier in its run, as can be verified by the fact that the last entry for it is March 2002. According to Variety, Spirited Away was up to $227 million by the end of 2001 which is completely consistent with the Box Office Mojo's foreign tracking. BOM stopped tracking it in March for whatever reason, but by the end of 2002 it had grossed $270 million according to Variety. As of 2008 the gross had risen to $290 million. If you want to point out that Box Office Mojo has a lower gross down for Japan be my guest, but it should be clear that the reason its gross is lower than Variety's is because it stopped tracking it earlier than Variety, not because the sources "contradict" each other. Also, WP:SYNTHESIS does not really apply to basic numerical addition: WP:CALC permits simple aritmethic calculations of this nature. Betty Logan (talk) 13:59, 7 October 2015 (UTC)

I calculated the total box office according to sources of the box office section of this article. Result is very close to $290 million; Variety

• Japan box office: ¥30.4 billion= $250.100.800
• US box office: $10.055.859
• Other countries: $28.940.019
• Total: $289.096.678

Paleocemoski 18:01, 18 December 2015 (UTC)

FA push?

All right. I'm thinking about doing an FA push for a possible WP:TFA on 20 July 2016, the 15th anniversary of its release. I'll peer review this soon for a potential FA, but if there are any issues that need to be looked at, please let me know here. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 01:27, 31 May 2016 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Spirited Away. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit User:Cyberpower678/FaQs#InternetArchiveBot*this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20141006114030/http://www.animenation.net/blog/2002/02/19/results-from-tokyo-anime-fair-awards/ to http://www.animenation.net/blog/2002/02/19/results-from-tokyo-anime-fair-awards/
• Added archive http://web.archive.org/web/20131215184400/http://www.ayaka-hirahara.com/discography/banka_s.html to http://www.ayaka-hirahara.com/discography/banka_s.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true or failed to let others know (documentation at {{Sourcecheck}}).

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 05:45, 4 June 2016 (UTC)

English varieties

What english varieties should we used in this article? Hddty. (talk) 04:57, 5 March 2017 (UTC)

@Hddty.: Any variety will do, as none is tied to the subject matter significantly. Emir of Wikipedia (talk) 17:56, 28 March 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Spirited Away. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20120104010145/http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/spirited_away/ to http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/spirited_away/
• Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.animerica-mag.com/features/11.05/sareview.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 20:24, 30 April 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 2 external links on Spirited Away. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20131105170315/http://web41.its.hawaii.edu/manoa.hawaii.edu/eastasia/wp/wp-content/uploads/2004/10/spiritedaway.pdf to http://web41.its.hawaii.edu/manoa.hawaii.edu/eastasia/wp/wp-content/uploads/2004/10/spiritedaway.pdf
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160501075434/http://www.unomaha.edu/jrf/Vol8No2/boydShinto.htm to http://www.unomaha.edu/jrf/Vol8No2/boydShinto.htm

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 12:48, 6 December 2017 (UTC)

"List of films considered the best"

Twice, this article links to the "List of films considered the best". The first time is in the third paragraph, and links directly to the #animation section of the article. The second time is in the "See Also" section of the page.

So here's an odd thing: Spirited Away isn't mentioned anywhere on that page. Nausicaä of the Valley of the Wind and Laputa: Castle in the Sky represent Japanese animation in the animation section. Tokyo Story, Seven Samurai, and Roshamon are in the Japan section. Maybe Spirited Away was on this page at one point... but it isn't now.

Now don't at me. I agree that Spirited Away is one of the best films made. But if we're linking to that page, and Spirited Away doesn't appear on it, doesn't that just hurt the argument that Spirited Away is one of the best movies ever made? It's like turning to an expert and saying "This guy thinks it's great!" and the expert responds with "Yeah, whatever." Jmgariepy (talk) 05:42, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Not sure if it was on the list previously but later removed, but here is a source that validate the claim and justify the inclusion on the list: Loveridge, Lynzee (October 31, 2018). "BBC Honors Spirited Away, Akira Kurosawa in List of Greatest Foreign Language Films". Anime News Network.

—Farix (t | c) 11:15, 30 May 2019 (UTC)

Oh, I'm certainly not arguing that it doesn't deserve the accolades it gets. I'm just saying that those two links seem inappropriate. It's a kind of lie to link to a site that lists the greatest movies of all time and *infer* that Spirited Away is on that page, when it isn't. The movie already gets enormous praise from numerous sources. Why link to a page that ignores the movie? Jmgariepy (talk) 06:12, 5 June 2019 (UTC)

"El viaje de Chihiro" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect El viaje de Chihiro. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2020 November 16#El viaje de Chihiro until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. TheAwesomeHwyh 21:30, 16 November 2020 (UTC)

Box Office Numbers

This article currently lists "$395.6 million" for Spirited Away's international box office number. However, this number comes from a Crunchyroll article that calls it "upper estimates." The article's editor explains, "I've verified most of the numbers here myself through research, but some are just impossible to find without speaking the native language or being around at the time. Hence why I say "upper estimates" rather than confirmed numbers." https://twitter.com/DoctorDazza/status/1364228294871195651

Wikipedia should not be listing "upper estimates" that include unverified, unconfirmed numbers for the box office numbers of a film, when there are confirmed numbers elsewhere. 27.143.41.6 (talk) 15:15, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Another proof to my statement. Here the link https://comicbook.com/anime/news/demon-slayer-anime-movie-box-office-global-record/ Ichika Kasuga (talk) 15:58 Tuesday, 23 February 2021 — Preceding undated comment added 15:59, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

The ComicBook.com article above sources Anime News Network, which lists US$383,397,782. 27.143.41.6 (talk) 16:11, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

Please read the complete article. It said that Spirited Away is currently capped at nearly $396 million worldwide which is certainly impressive. [[User:Ichika Kasuga|Ichika Kasuga]] (talk) (talk) 16:17, 23 February 2021 (UTC)Ichika Kasuga (talk) 16:17 Tuesday, 23 February 2021

That's the issue. It comes up with a number as "capped" (that is, an upper estimate), but its sources do not mention this number at all. Impressive, but unsourced and unconfirmed. 27.143.41.6 (talk) — Preceding undated comment added 16:20, 23 February 2021 (UTC)

So if there are no other objections, going to update this article and others with only verified, sourced box office data for Spirited Away. 27.143.41.6 (talk) 01:22, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Article protected

Rather than block all participants in this dispute for edit warring, I have protected the article. Disrupting the stability of any article on Wikipedia is unacceptable, even if all parties are acting in good faith. Work it out here on the talk page. You can use the {{Edit fully-protected}} template to preface an edit request to change the article after consensus has been reached. ~Anachronist (talk) 05:45, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Currently requesting you to revert all edits of IP address user till the discussion is closed. [[User:Ichika Kasuga|Ichika Kasuga]] (talk) (talk) 06:17, 24 February 2021 (UTC)Ichika Kasuga (talk) 6:16 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Spirited Away's Lifetime Box office Collection

Europe	$19,305,000	¥2,450,875,000
Country	Gross in $	Gross in ¥
Austria	$275,000	¥34,375,000
Belgium	$270,000	¥33,750,000
Czech Republic	$75,000	¥9,375,000
Denmark	$610,000	¥76,250,000
Finland	$325,000	¥40,625,000
France	$8,000,000	¥1,024,000,000
Germany	$2,750,000	¥357,500,000
Greece	$400,000	¥50,000,000
Hungary	$50,000	¥6,250,000
Italy	$1,375,000	¥171,875,000
Netherlands	$160,000	¥20,000,000
Norway	$325,000	¥40,625,000
Poland	$230,000	¥28,750,000
Spain	$1,150,000	¥143,750,000
Sweden	$515,000	¥64,375,000
Switzerland	$625,000	¥78,125,000
Turkey	$70,000	¥8,750,000
United Kingdom	$1,600,000	¥200,000,000
Rest of Europe	$500,000	¥62,500,000
Asia	$357,000,000	¥42,364,000,000
Country	Gross in $	Gross in ¥
China	$70,500,000	¥7,614,000,000
Hong Kong	$3,750,000	¥495,000,000
Japan	$261,750,000	¥31,700,000,000
South Korea	$13,000,000	¥1,534,000,000
Taiwan	$3,000,000	¥396,000,000
Rest of Asia	$5,000,000	¥625,000,000
America	$18,675,000	¥2,144,100,000
Country	Gross in $	Gross in ¥
North America	$15,000,000	¥1,710,000,000
Mexico	$925,000	¥103,600,000
Argentina	$250,000	¥30,500,000
Rest of Latin America	$2,500,000	¥300,000,000
Oceania	$600,000	¥72,000,000
Country	Gross in $	Gross in ¥
Austraila	$400,000	¥48,000,000
New Zealand	$200,000	¥24,000,000
Total Worldwide Gross	$395,580,000	¥47,030,975,000

This is the lifetime box office collection as per the prominent editor of Crunchyroll, Daryl Hardling. This discussion is useless if the IP address doesn't revert its edits till the discussion is closed. The point to note here is that article has many sources from this editor supporting the edits. If any user edits before discussion is closed will be blocked. Ichika Kasuga (talk) 4:57 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

As explained above, the figures for Spirited Away's box office total in Crunchyroll's articles are what it calls "upper estimates." The CR editor acknowledged that the spreadsheet above includes unsourced, unverified, and unconfirmed numbers.

https://twitter.com/DoctorDazza/status/1364228294871195651

27.143.41.6 (talk) 05:02, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

He said that it is difficult to know gross if you donot know native language.Ichika Kasuga (talk) 5:05 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

The CR editor also said that the spreadsheet above includes unverified and unconfirmed numbers without sources. 27.143.41.6 (talk) 05:21, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

What is this see and answer me now https://twitter.com/DoctorDazza/status/1364228612849770503 Ichika Kasuga (talk) 5:25 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, this is where the CR editor acknowledges, "Hence why I say 'upper estimates' rather than confirmed numbers." Wikipedia does not resolve incomplete verified information by adding unverified information. 27.143.41.6 (talk) 05:31, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Are you mad? Can't you see this

"Box Office Mojo and The Numbers are missing a lot of this data, and have trouble tracking international re-releases or films that fall of the "top 10" in the regions. US releases they're usually on point with though." Box office Mojo and The Number missed out many sources. You can see the example of Demon Slayer movie where correct gross hasn't been updated.Ichika Kasuga (talk) 5:32 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Again, Wikipedia does not deal with incomplete verified information by adding unverified information. Crunchyroll specifically describes its Spirited Away box office numbers as "upper estimates" and acknowledges that its figures includes unverified, unconfirmed numbers. 27.143.41.6 (talk) 05:40, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

"Box Office Mojo and The Numbers are missing a lot of this data", See this statement carefully, it says missing lots of data ,meaning not confirmed and unverified box office collection from this two sources.Ichika Kasuga (talk) 5:58 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Yes, these two sources are missing data for various countries. However, that missing data does justify adding unconfirmed and unverified data to Wikipedia. Wikipedia is not for unverifiable material. WP:WIAE 27.143.41.6 (talk) 06:18, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Missing data meaning to say that gross is incomplete. If gross is incomplete then the film will loss position insignficantly. Making the film looks unsuccessful in box office you can see the gross of the film Demon Slayer Mugen Train, which hasn't updated with sources and is reliable to reader to know that the gross of the film has overtook 400 USD million but Box Office Mojo and The Number reporting 337 USD million, meaning to say that the film hasn't perform well in box office. So the reliable one is Crunchyroll. Thank you. Ichika Kasuga (talk) 6:18 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a complete repository of information, nor can it be or should be. WP:NOTEVERYTHING If verifiabe information is missing, we have to accept it.

By the way, The Numbers is not reporting 337 USD million, and Crunchyroll is not reporting 400 USD million. 27.143.41.6 (talk) 06:33, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Sorry, It has reported only $323 million. https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Kimetsu-no-Yaiba-Mugen-Ressha-Hen-(2020-Japan)#tab=summary Crunchyroll has updated it in twitter.

You can check it there directly. Ichika Kasuga (talk) 6:32 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

The verifiable numbers are available for Demon Slayer, but the numbers for Spirited Away in the spreadsheet above are not verifiable. That's the issue here. 27.143.41.6 (talk) 06:51, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Is it fair to say we have consensus on these points? See also Talk:Demon_Slayer:_Kimetsu_no_Yaiba_the_Movie:_Mugen_Train

1) The spreadsheet above, as is, does not meet Wikipedia's standards for verifiability or sourcing for Spirited Away's box office numbers.

2) For now, Wikipedia should use the figures from The Numbers or Box Office Mojo for Spirited Away's box office.

27.143.41.6 (talk) 11:37, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

Here whats Comicbook mention "Spirited Away is currently capped at nearly $396 million worldwide which is certainly impressive."Here is the link of this statement. Even if it has use the source of ANN. Currently, I have been trying to reach extact gross while studying I found that the gross of the film Spirited Away was $355 million then increased to $358 million and then increased to $383 million while Demon Slayer: Kimetsu no Yaiba the Movie: Mugen Train was about to overtook the film in term of worldwide box office collection by the mysterious site coming from no where i.e The Number as per the link says. I have some tweets with a Box Office Analyst which supports my statement of $396 million worldwide gross. You can see my tweets for your references. He has clearly explained your doubt regarding terms like "ROA", "ROE". However a point to note that domestic box office collection is not mentioned clearly in the site The Number. But what Box Office Mojo reports that the lifetime gross of Spirited Away is only $355 million. All together it was concluded that money exchange rate is different in various site which has lead to box office fluculations. So the summary is that there is no actual record on lifetime box office collection on the film. I have tried to contact the production studio regarding its gross. But there wasn't any response from there side. In the end we need to take estimates as per jatvision's tweet because this is not a Hollywood movie nor produced by Disney. Further, today he felt offended regarding his personal research. But he says "if you want to know numbers personally, you know it now. simple." Another important is that Spirited Away grossed 30.8B in Japan in 2002 which was $253M back then, while today it will be $300M. So, chart is quite disturbing. Further the box office Analyst also says "past number for developing and smaller markets are impossible to get unless you can get them from every individual distributor which released the film. even producers won't know them because they sold the films to distributors." Also the studio itself hasn't officially announced its lifetime gross for Spirited Away. As far what concerned the most is the system of exchange of currency. Sadly, the distributor also has no obligation to report any box office numbers. Conclusion: Till the system of exchange is know the gross will be limited by $395.6 million. If within the next seven days the data is not confirmed, then we will switch back to the data of Box Office Mojo. Thanking you for your patiences. He also says "past number for developing and smaller markets are impossible to get unless you can get them from every individual distributor which released the film. even producers won't know them because they sold the films to distributors. All the tweets are available. You can see them for your references. Ichika Kasuga (talk) 11:56 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

If there is objection, I would asked the administerator to revert all the edits of the IP address regarding the worldwide box office collection of Spirited Away in its entire lifetime run. Support for my statement are as follows

1. Crunchyroll article stating its final gross to $395.6 million.
2. Comicbook article stating its final gross to around $396 million.
3. Box Office Analyst's tweet.
4. Statistics of a Spreadsheet docs.
5. Stats that prove that the out-dated site basically the Numbers and Prominent site namely the Box Office Mojo as wrong.
6. Problem of money exchange.

Ichika Kasuga (talk) 12:53 Wednesday, 24 February 2021 (UTC)

I found it hard to fill sources. Anyway, below is what I collected just now. Here, rerelease data are separated, with the conversion of currency into US$ or JPY given at the latest date. If verified weekly or daily data are available, cumulative summation of converted values can be obtained, but I will not try this time .

Area (rereleases separated)	Local currency	US$	JPY	As of	URL for conversion	URL for information (mainly MOJO)
Austria		241,829.00	28,789,167	Aug 13, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=241829&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=13&MM=08&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3898770433/weekly/
Czech Republic		21,313.00	2,557,995	Feb 9, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=21313&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=09&MM=02&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3791488001/weekend/
Finland		292,529.00	34,719,778	May 29, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=292529&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=29&MM=05&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3982656513/weekly/
France		6,326,294.00	769,942,289	Jun 25, 2002	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=6326294&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=25&MM=06&YYYY=2002	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3999433729/weekly/
Germany		1,981,457.00	234,478,654	Aug 20, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=1981457&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=20&MM=08&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3949102081/weekly/
Greece		307,200.00	35,282,376	Sep 21, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=307200&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=21&MM=09&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl4016210945/weekend/
Italy		804,985.00	94,313,197	May 21, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=804985&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=21&MM=05&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3781329921/weekly/
Norway 1		103,488.00	12,289,081	Feb 23, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=103488&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=23&MM=02&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3848438785/weekend/
Norway 2		102,480.00	12,624,295	Jun 21, 2015	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=102480&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=21&MM=06&YYYY=2015	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl2691073281/weekend/
Poland		27,787.00	3,335,995	Apr 6, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=27787&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=06&MM=04&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3881993217/weekend/
Portugal	EUR 516	612.85	68,235	Nov 24, 2017	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=516&C1=EUR&C2=USD&DD=24&MM=11&YYYY=2017	https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-chart/weekend/2017/11/24/Portugal/EUR
Russia/CIS	RUB 10,357,019	140,567.31	14,893,469	Jan 4, 2019	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=10357019&C1=RUB&C2=USD&DD=4&MM=01&YYYY=2019	https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-chart/weekend/2019/01/04/Russia-(CIS)/RUB
Slovakia	EUR 5,677	5,930.19	696,000	Dec 23, 2016	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=5677&C1=EUR&C2=USD&DD=23&MM=12&YYYY=2016	https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-chart/weekend/2016/12/23/Slovakia/EUR
Spain		822,940.00	100,673,595	Nov 21, 2002	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=822940&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=21&MM=11&YYYY=2002	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3965879297/weekly/
Turkey		36,860.00	4,024,622	Jul 4, 2004	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=36860&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=04&MM=07&YYYY=2004	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3647112193/weekend/
UK	GBP 972,527	1,746,238.31	194,319,858	Mar 14, 2004	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=972527&C1=GBP&C2=USD&DD=14&MM=03&YYYY=2004	https://www2.bfi.org.uk/publications/corporate-documents-publications/film-industry-statistics-research/box-office-reports-5
Europe		12,962,510.66	1,543,008,606.00
China	CNY 488,280,000	70,140,496.39	7,613,434,333	Dec 31, 2019	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=488280000&C1=CNY&C2=USD&DD=31&MM=12&YYYY=2019	https://maoyan.com/films/1212
Hong Kong	HKD 25,353,168	3,265,821.29	349,207,573	Dec 31, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=25353168&C1=HKD&C2=USD&DD=31&MM=12&YYYY=2003	http://www.sichuandongzao.com/linqingxia/12629.html
Japan 1	JPY 30,400,000,000	247,989,583.33	30,400,000,000	Nov 22, 2002	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=30400000000&C1=JPY&C2=USD&DD=22&MM=11&YYYY=2002	https://web.archive.org/web/20021123074716/http://www.eiren.org/
Japan 2	JPY 400,000,000	3,872,266.57	400,000,000	Sep 5, 2016	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=400000000&C1=JPY&C2=USD&DD=05&MM=09&YYYY=2016	https://www.cinra.net/news/20160906-studioghiblisousenkyo
Japan 3	JPY 880,000,000	8,473,350.25	880,000,000	Dec 15, 2020	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=880000000&C1=JPY&C2=USD&DD=15&MM=12&YYYY=2020
South Korea 1		11,382,770.00	1,350,150,434	Dec 31, 2002	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=11382770&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=31&MM=12&YYYY=2002	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3814884353/weekend/
South Korea 2	KRW 1,257,427,529	1,116,377.37	124,897,354	Mar 1, 2019	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=1257427529&C1=KRW&C2=USD&DD=01&MM=03&YYYY=2019	https://www.kobis.or.kr/kobis/business/mast/mvie/searchMovieList.do
Taiwan	TWD 74,540,000	2,196,166.19	234,831,547	Dec 31, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=74540000&C1=TWD&C2=USD&DD=31&MM=12&YYYY=2003	https://web.archive.org/web/20170329055640/http://www.appledaily.com.tw/realtimenews/article/new/20150520/613514/
East Asia		348,436,831.39	41,352,521,241
USA/Canada 1	USD 10,055,859	10,055,859.00	1,174,856,738	Sep 4, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=10055859&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=04&MM=09&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl661882369/?ref_=bo_gr_rls
USA/Canada 2	USD 1,196,791	1,196,791.00	136,664,215	Nov 1, 2017	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=1196791&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=01&MM=11&YYYY=2017	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3674375681/?ref_=bo_gr_rls
USA/Canada 3	USD 1,175,067	1,175,067.00	132,551,525	Oct 30, 2018	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=1175067&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=30&MM=10&YYYY=2018	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl3305539073/?ref_=bo_gr_rls
USA/Canada 4	USD 1,322,927	1,322,927.00	144,121,140	Oct 30, 2019	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=1322927&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=30&MM=10&YYYY=2019	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl1755283969/?ref_=bo_gr_rls
Mexico	MXN 16,790,000	881,724.86	99,288,424	Nov 17, 2017	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=16790000&C1=JMXN&C2=USD&DD=17&MM=11&YYYY=2017	https://www.the-numbers.com/box-office-chart/weekend/2017/11/17/Mexico/MXN
Argentine		215,307.00	25,631,786	Aug 13, 2003	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=215307&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=13&MM=08&YYYY=2003	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl4150428673/weekly/
Americas		14,847,675.86	1,713,113,828
Australia 1	273,708 AUD	154,314.84	18,551,953	Dec 25, 2002	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=273708&C1=AUD&C2=USD&DD=25&MM=12&YYYY=2002	http://www.urbancinefile.com.au/home/boxoffice.asp
Australia 2		8,007.00	831,060	Dec 24, 2021	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=8007&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=24&MM=01&YYYY=2021	https://www.boxofficemojo.com/release/rl55804673/weekend/
New Zealand	NZD 1,666	1,168.36	121,745	Nov 27, 2020	https://fxtop.com/en/historical-currency-converter.php?A=1666&C1=USD&C2=JPY&DD=27&MM=11&YYYY=2020	https://www.the-numbers.com/movie/Sen-to-Chihiro-no-Kamikakushi/New-Zealand#tab=box-office
Oceania		163,490.20	19,504,758
Worldwide		376,410,508.11	44,628,148,433

Still more than US$20 million below the Crunchyroll data.

In case of Europe, almost all the figures except for UK are from MOJO or NUMBERS, whereas I cannot find revenues in Belgium, Denmark, Hungary, the Netherlands, Sweden, and Switzerland. On the other hand, admission data for several European countries including above countries are summarized in the following URL. So I suspect that the figures presented by the Crunchyroll article are estimated ones based on admission data. Anyway, this makes plus US$6 million.

http://lumiere.obs.coe.int/web/film_info/?id=18921

In case of Japan, total gross of 30.2 billion yen was found in an article published by the Asahi newspaper on Nov 17, 2002, while 30.4 billion yen appeared by Nov 23, 2002 at the Motion Picture Producers Association of Japan website (probably updated on Nov 22, 2002). Then suddenly on Sep 5, 2016, Ghibli announced that the total gross was 30.8 billion yen, which was also the date when a pdf file containing final gross revenue for Spirited Away was updated from 30.4 to 30.8 billion yen on the Motion Picture Producers Association of Japan. Later in 2020, rerun of Spirited Away was performed, where the total gross was 0.88 billion yen according to an announcement by TOHO on Dec 15, 2020. Here, date of conversion of currency makes big differences.

For other East Asian countries, most of the final revenues are available independently. In case of USA/Canada, MOJO data are probably more accurate. There are some problems for the figures in Australia and New Zealand in both MOJO and The NUMBERS (counts are apparently wrong for the latter), but probably the Crunchroll figures are rather overestimated for Oceanian case.

So my conclusion is, the gross revenues can vary drastically by the method to convert local currencies into US$ or JPY, but I don't agree to use the Crunchyroll figures, for sources on the final total gross revenues for many countries are not shown (even if estimated ones based on the admission data are allowed to be used). At the same time, I cannot accept the figures at US$7.5 million for rest of Asia, Latin Americas.Orichalcum (talk) 06:57, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

Excellent breakdown with sources! I appreciate how you broke down some countries' multiple runs by year, to convert currencies more precisely. 27.143.41.6 (talk) 16:37, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

After study the data of the user Orichalcum, matter looks partially solved. Partly done:

But not easy to say that The Number are correct. Since the IP user has problem saying that the gross should be updated to $383 million. So, the Number gross cannot be selected because the IP user hasn't proved his claim in details as per me and Orichalcum. Therefore, $383 million is not the gross for the film.N and that's final.

My statements are already backed by 6 sources. Just waiting for a opinion for a confirmation. Since Box Office Mojo data is well sourced so I do not mind if the gross is $376.5 million. Thank you. Ichika Kasuga (talk) 17:09, 25 February 2021 (UTC)

References

We should add main character descriptions

There are main character descriptions both on japanese version of spirited away and chinese version of spirited away. So I think we should add this part into wikipeida page. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zqy787 (talk • contribs) 17:19, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

It is not a normal practise for film articles to provide in-universe coverage beyond the plot summary. See Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Film and also Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid on discussion pages#Wikipedias in other languages. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 17:26, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for your help, I am new to Wikipeida and I am not familiar with those rules. However I think in-universe coverage will be of great help, so can I add this part into this wiki page? Of course I will not just simply translate them into Egnlish. Because this page is Semi-protected, I just want to get permission before actually editing. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zqy787 (talk • contribs) 02:51, 25 March 2021 (UTC)

Feel free. I personally won't revert it, but I can't speak for others. Just giving you a heads up on the guidelines around it. I'd recommend making it a subsection of the plot summary, and only sticking to character descriptions that are found in reliable sources (i.e. not a fan page or a forum). I should also point you to The Simpsons episode Married to the Blob, which makes a huge tribute to Ghibli and specifically the scene in Spirited Away where Sen firsts transitions into the spirit realm. - Floydian ^τ _¢ 19:52, 25 March 2021 (UTC)