Talk:LGBT rights in Wyoming

Wishful Thinking is not Fact

I edited the "Same-sex marriage in Wyoming" article a year or so ago to make clear that despite the apparent legal loophole, Wyoming has never actually recognized any same-sex married couple in any way.

Somewhere along the line since I did my editing on this topic, the old article got redirected to this one, and apparently the revision history of the old one is now lost.

It's important not to mislead people who might be thinking about visiting or moving to Wyoming, that their out-of-state marriage will be honored there. So far, I've not found any evidence whatsoever that the state has ever recognized a same-sex married couple in any legal way.

If someone can provide a reliable source to show that I'm wrong, that the state has ever in any official way recognized even one same-sex couple as married, please do so; but just wishing it were so is not enough. Let's have some actual verification first.

Textorus (talk) 10:23, 25 August 2010 (UTC)

6 Sources Is Enough!

I see where you are coming from, homever, 3 sources were listed - including one written by the Associated Press - while Wymoing law bans same-sex marriage, it doesn't bar its recognition. This is why they're trying to amend the constitution to bar recognizing of out of state gay marriages... wyoming law clearly states that it will recognize any foreign marriage (see updated lgbt rights in wyoming). I would be open to looking into whether it will recognize other states' marriages, but certainly out of country they do. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Kflack (talk • contribs) 03:43, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Not all sources are equally valid because this is not simply governed by one law - the HRC looked into the legal entanglement and concluded that no recognition exists. Please point to a report on an actual same-sex marriage recognized by the state. Until then, we should go with the nuanced explanation put forward by User:Textorus. Also see Template talk:Same-sex unions#Wyoming Hekerui (talk) 07:29, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you, Hekerui. The other editor should understand that journalists are not always reliable, especially on fine points of law. And news stories are copied and shared around the world by many different media outfits, so if one journalist makes a careless statement in an article, it can be picked up and repeated ad infinitum. (The Associated Press is a lot like Wikipedia, ya know?) In this context, it's worth noting that none of the Wyoming news articles written by journalists in the state make the claim that Wyoming recognizes out-of-state same-sex-marriages.

It's also worth noting that neither the Human Rights Campaign, Freedom to Marry, the National Center for Lesbian Rights, or the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force claim that Wyoming recognizes out-of-state same-sex marriages: in fact, they all indicate exactly the opposite. And these outfits are all in the business of tracking this kind of thing across the nation, and they each have a staff of attorneys who understand the laws.

And would everybody please notice these quotes from an article written on Feb. 3, 2009, in the (Cheyenne) Wyoming Tribune-Eagle, when the state legislature was considering a DOMA-like amendment to the state consitution:

" Wyoming law already defines marriage as between a man and woman," said Rep. Ed Buchanan, R-Torrington, a co-sponsor. That conflicts, however, with state law that recognizes marriages from other states and countries because a few recognize gay marriage. "The reason we are here with this amendment is you can find case law around the country on either side of this issue," Buchanan said. "Do you want the courts to decide this, or do you want to send this amendment through to the voters of Wyoming?"

But Linda Burt of the Wyoming ACLU said, "Regardless of what happens today, the courts in Wyoming are going to deal with these issues." The resolution changes no laws and solves no problems, Burt said. "What it does is discriminate against a certain population of our state." The state would be embroiled for many years in litigation over the constitutionality of the amendment, she added.

Austin Nimocks, senior legal counsel for the Alliance Defense Fund, a religious attorneys' organization, said, "It's just a question of time" before the issue of a gay marriage in another state comes before a Wyoming court.

So the clear implication of these remarks from Wyoming is that the issue has never been decided there, by the legislature or by the courts, and that no such recognition has yet been extended to gay couples. The purpose of the amendment was to prevent that from happening in the future - not to stop something that has already happened.

When the Equality State does start living up to its name, I'll be as thrilled as anyone else. But till then, let's please stick to the facts and not put wrong information out there to mislead people, okay? Textorus (talk) 11:05, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

I have made an update to the LGBT Rights in Wyoming that I hope the users who feel it is wrong info what was originally posted, may make things more clear. I noted that WY law says marriages validly contracted in foreign countries are to be recognized as valid. However, I clearly specificed it is unclear whether out-of-state marriages are recognized at this point because it is ambiguous, and your sources are valid too. KFlack (talk) 13:41, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

No evidence that foreign same-sex marriages are recognized in Wyoming. It's misinterpretation. Ron 1987 17:57, 26 August 2010 (UTC)

Wrong! Just because the law doesn't specify that it recognizes out-of-state same-sex marriages, doesn't mean they don't... otherwise I will say to you, Wyoming law doesn't specify that it bans out of state same-sex marriages... so, therefore?

Just like how the AG of Rhode Island, New York, and Maryland decided that their state law meant recognizing out of state gay marriages, even though it wasn't defined specifically in state law. Wyoming law states clearly (as mentioned on LGBT Rights in Wyoming) that foreign marriages that were validly conducted in that country are valid in Wyoming. If a gay marriage was validly conducted in that country, than it shall have effect in Wyoming. Sorry, but that is why they want to amend the constitution to ban out of state recognition of gay marriage. Why wouldn't they want a full ban in the constitution to begin with other than only specifically out of state in 2007? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.114.255.3 (talk) 01:11, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Your comments show your personal interpretation of the law. But are you a lawyer? Have you ever been to law school? Your interpretation carries no weight here. Our job is not to write up our personal interpretations but to provide verifiable content based on reliable third-party sources - which you are not doing. You are just making arguments off the top of your head without having any true understanding of how the law operates, especially when one provision contradicts another: then its up to a judge to decide how the law is to be interpreted and applied, not you or me.

Yes, New York and Maryland and Rhode Island have had executive rulings by the governor or attorney general that require state agencies to respect OOS same-sex marriages. But you are not the AG of Wyoming, bud, so your reading of the law is meaningless. Can you provide even one official state source that says this kind of thing has ever happened even once in Wyoming? Until you can - give it a rest. Textorus (talk) 05:55, 27 August 2010 (UTC)

Wow, Textorus... calm down over there. You can't provide a source either where a foreign couple tried to get their marriage licenses recognized and was turned away. Ever thought that with Wyoming being a fairly conservative state, that maybe no one has gone public about it?

You act like I provided no sources - I included 6, including one that was written by someone in AP. Yes, people make mistakes (if it is one), but you are acting like I went off of 0 facts and subtituted my own opinion. No, I have never been to law school, I did take 1 law class in University and got an A by the way -- I know a fair bit on the law especially on same-sex marriage - since 2003, I have researched gay marriage articles every day and continue to do that.

I agree with you, it's not our job to use our own personal interpretations -- that is not what I am doing. I even freakin' went back, and made a change that acknowledged that out-of-ostate SSM is unclear, but that out of country is. We haven't heard that they're not recognizing or are recognizing them - but the law is the law and it's more black & white on this than it is for let's say states like NY that didn't have a law banning gay marriage but their courts still said the constitution didn't requite gay marriage.

Wyoming law states it itself -- and if you can reply to me and tell me that what I wrote has 0 weight because the law doesn't specify it recognizes foreign same-sex marriages, than why is it not valid for me to say that Wyoming law doesn't say it bans recognition of foreign marriages?? -- I'm not the only person in this discussion that feels that it's valid.

It is just like how in Prince Edward Island, Canada - if you read up on that page same-sex marriage, it is still noted that the law took effect in July when the Civil Marriage Act received royal assent, despite the fact that the province didn't actually start handing out SSM licenses until months later due to admin issues. I guess you don't know me as well as you think you do, because I read the update you posted and I feel that's good enough.

Except as far as I know, DOMA doesn't really apply when looking at recognizing foreign marriages - because DOMA only stops other states from having to recognize other states' gay marriages, and bans federal recognition of same-sex marriages already granted at the state level... but anyway, i'm leaving your edit alone... at least it references the recognition law i sourced.—Preceding unsigned comment added by Kflack (talk • contribs) 03:43, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Thank you. Textorus (talk) 16:50, 28 August 2010 (UTC)

Notable LGBT people from Wyoming

This section is really off-topic. This WP entry isn't about LGBT stuff in Wyoming. It's about rights. I think this is the only case in all the entries for the states that I've seen that includes such a section. It gets as bad as: "Richard Grayson, the openly gay short story writer, lived briefly in northeast Wyoming." The entire section is basically trivia, with the exception of Matthew Shepard, who is already mentioned and properly linked elsewhere in this article. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 23:48, 8 February 2014 (UTC) Richard Grayson is currently the only Democrat on the August 19, 2014 primary ballot for Wyoming's at-large U.S. House seat. http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Ariz-man-only-Dem-contender-in-Wyo-House-race-5518065.php — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.24.202.157 (talk) 16:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Few states never had an anti-SSM constitutional amendment

I find this claim dubious. I haven't found a good source, but after some quick research, I think the # of states that never banned same-sex marriage in their constitutions is 20 (east to west): Maine, Massachusetts, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, Connecticut, New York, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, Delaware, Maryland, West Virginia, Indiana, Illinois, Iowa, Minnesota, New Mexico, Wyoming, Washington, Hawaii. Bmclaughlin9 (talk) 00:06, 18 December 2014 (UTC)

Public Religion Research Institute

I'm not going to comment on content, etc., just asking why User:Lmharding says the PRRI polls are dishonest and skewed. See Talk:Public Religion Research Institute#Bad source. I presume that's the reason for their recent revert. Doug Weller talk 16:02, 12 September 2022 (UTC)