Talk:Erich von Falkenhayn/GA1

GA Review

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Reviewer: Johannes Schade (talk · contribs) 16:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Welcome Good day User:Nicealstn, if I may call you so. I propose to review your GA nomination “Erich von Falkenhayn”. Admittedly, I am only an apprentice-reviewer. I must also warn you that my English is 2nd language and that I am no subject-matter expert. I will propose corrections and suggest optional improvements. The corrections rely on the GA criteria (WP:GACR). Some are tentative. Please tell me when you disagree with a correction. I am probably wrong. You can ignore my suggestions. They have no effect on the article's promotion. However they provide the occasion to chat a bit, to exchange ideas and learn from each other if you like it. Should I lack in respect, complain (see WP:CIVIL).

I will start with the preliminaries and then go through the articlee’s sections sometimes returning to previous ones when needed.

Before the article content

• Optional. Please add the English variety. – This is part of GACR Rule 1b, (MOS:LEADELEMENTS) but marked as optional: “The lead section may contain optional elements …”.

—With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 16:33, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

• Optional Infobox, I feel the infobox is too long. It should probably concentrate on his most important office: the Chief of the general staff. A shorter infobox would make it possible to add another image without sandwiching the text. There are several images available in Wikimedia Common; e.g. the parade in Minsk, the entry of his cavary in Bucharest, or Falkenhayn in Jerusalem. Tell me what you thin or keep it at the back of your mind and we come back to it later.

Lead

• Your lead is followed by a citation. GACR Rule 1b prescribes compliance with MOS:LEAD SECTION of which MOS:LEADCITE is a part. This latter rule prescribes that the lead should normally not comprise citations as it should be a summary. Statements of the lead will be supported by citations in the body where more detail is given.

• Done

Early life

Could you please provide me with the URLs of the cited books that you read on line?

• 1st paragraph, 1st sentence: Falkenhayn was born in Burg Belchau near Graudenz – GACR Rule 1a, "understanding"; … Link Burg Belchau to Białochowo. This makes it more of less clear the "Burg Belchau" was not a "Burg" (castle in German), but an estate called "Burg Belchau" to distinguish it from another similarly names estate. It might not be necessary to give all these details, but link the name.

• Done

—With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 20:35, 2 July 2022 (UTC)

Early life (revisited)

• Only paragraph, 2nd sentence: Ancestors of him goes back ... – GACR Rule 1a "grammar"; "Ancestors of him go back ... "

• Done

Military career

• 1st paragraph, 3rd sentence: In 1893 he became a Hauptmann and transferred to topographical department of the German General Staff. – GACR Rule 1a "grammar"; "... to the topographical department ..."

• Done

—User:Nicealstn Are you there? The normal way to let me know that you have read my remark and edited accordingly is to indent and write "Done". Thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 16:34, 9 July 2022 (UTC)

Sorry, I did not how to do because it is my first time to nominate an article for GA review. I changed the grammar mistakes that you had pointed out. Nicealstn (talk) 06:48, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

Ok I added {{British English}} in the talk page and I have shortened the infobox. Nicealstn (talk) 14:38, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Dear Nicealstn, very glad to hear from you. To see how the "done" is usually done, you can e.g. look how the User Edwininlondon has reacted to my remarks in the review "Talk:Betsy Bakker-Nort/GA1". There are some outstanding reactions:

• Please react to my suggestion above to add an English variety. I would propose "{{Use British English}}". See Charles MacCarthy, 1st Viscount Muskerry for an example. Strictly speaking this is optional and you can refuse. However I need to base my spelling corrections on some English variety. If you refuse to choose, I will have to make an assumption.

• Done

• Please react to my suggestion above about shortening the infobox and adding another image.

• Done for the inbox and done with the image by adding Falkenhayn in Romania

Early life (revisited 2nd time)

• Only paragraph, 1st sentence: ... now Białochowo of Poland ... – GACR Rule 1a "grammar"; perhaps not really wrong but "now Białochowo in Poland" is much more common.

• Done

Military career (revisited)

• Only paragraph, 12th sentence (if I count it right): He was a company leader there. – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; it is not clear to which place the "there" refers.

• Done

• Only paragraph, 13th sentence (if I count it right): On 10 April 1906, Falkenhayn became a section chief ... – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; which section?

• Done

• Only paragraph, 13th sentence (if I count it right): ... German General Staff ... – This has already been linked.

• Done

• Only paragraph, 14th sentence (if I count it right): In 1907, ... of XVI Corps. – GACR Rule 1a "grammar" (missing article); In 1907, Falkenhayn became Chief of Staff of the XVI Corps.

• Done

• Only paragraph, 15th sentence (if I count it right): He became Oberst in 1908. – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; please link Oberst.

• Done

• Only paragraph, penultimate sentence: On 27 January 1911, Falkenhayn became commander of 4th Guards Regiment. – GACR Rule 1a "grammar" (missing article); On 27 January 1911, Falkenhayn became commander of the 4th Guards Regiment.

• Done

• Only paragraph, last sentence: On 20 February ... of IV Corps. – GACR Rule 1a "grammar" (missing article); of theIV Corps

• Done

Prussian Minister of War (1913–1915)

• Only paragraph, 1st sentence: In 1913 he became Prussian Minister of War; before the beginning of the First World War, when the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand of Austria in Sarajevo took place. – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"". I would say most readers will know the war statrted in 1914. Do not anticipate, discuss thinks in strict chronological order.

• Done

• Only paragraph, 2nd sentence: During Zabern Affair, Falkenhayn as Minister of War, was part of the conference in order to end the affair. – GACR Rule 1a "grammar" (missing article); "During the Zabern Affair" Give us a date for the Zabern Affair and tell us what role Falkenhayn played.

• Done

• Only paragraph, penultimate sentence, quotation: {Tq|"Even if we perish over this, it will still have been worth it".}} – GACR Rule 2b "direct quotation"; direct quotations must be supported by citations immediately following the quote.

• Done

• Only paragraph, last sentence: He was not in Berlin when the war broke out with von Bethmann Hollweg, Alfred von Tirpitz, Helmuth von Moltke the Younger and Gottlieb von Jagow. – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; I do not understand. Why do you tell us he was not in Berlin? What is the relevance?

• Done

Chief of Staff (1914–1916)

• 1st paragraph, 1st sentence: Falkenhayn succeeded Helmuth von Moltke the Younger as Chief of the Oberste Heeresleitung ... after the First Battle of the Marne on 14 September 1914 ... – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; break this up in two sentences. A first one that states that Falkenhayn took over from Moltke on 14 September 1914. Then follow up with another sentences that clarifies what had already happenend before that date: mention at least the Battle of Tannenberg in August 1914, the First Battle of the Marne 5 to 12 September, and the First Battle of the Masurian Lakes, from 4 to 13 September.

• Done

• 1st paragraph, 3rd sentence: ... making him to be the youngest chief of staff ... – GACR Rule 1a "grammar"; "making him the youngest chief of staff ...".

• Done

• 2nd paragraph, 4th sentence: While Helmuth von Moltke the Younger and Hindenburg highly critical of Falkenhayn and sought to have him dismissed ... – GACR Rule 1a "grammar" (missing verb); "While ... and Hindenburg were highly critical ..."

• Done

• 2nd paragraph, 5th sentence: Falkenhayn was skeptical about deployment of troops in Western Front in Vistula. – GACR Rule 1a "grammar" (garbled sentence);

• Done

• 2nd paragraph, 6th sentence: On the other hand, he knew the needs of troops in East Prussia ... – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; I am not sure what this is about.

• Done

• 2nd paragraph, 6th sentence: ... where the Russians took advantage of the weakening 8th Army ... – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; we have never heard of the 8th army before; how should we be able to understand?

• Done

—Dear Nicealstn, with thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 20:18, 10 July 2022 (UTC)

• 3rd paragraph, 3rd sentence: He tried to use these things and give ... – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; what "things" are these?

• Done

• 3rd paragraph, 7th sentence: They differed on the war aims; Conrad ... - Why suddenly use his first name. He should probably be called Hötzendorf.

• Done

• 3rd paragraph, 7th sentence: ... against the Russian Empire and Falkenhayn against France. GACR Rule 1a "concise"; "Russia" is good enough.

• Done

• 3rd paragraph, 8th sentence: Falkenhayn preferred to keep the Kingdom of Italy out of the war ... GACR Rule 1a "concise"; "Falkenhayn tried to keep Italy out of the war ..."

• Done

• 3rd paragraph, 9th & 10th sentences: Attacks on the Eastern front to support the Austrians, such as the Gorlice–Tarnów Offensive, were tremendously successful for the Central Powers. This resulted in Russian troops embarking on the military evacuation of Russian Poland and then retreating deeper into the Russian interior. GACR Rule 1a "concise"; "Attacks on the Eastern front to support the Austrians, such as the Gorlice–Tarnów Offensive, caused the Russians to evacuation Russian Poland and then to retreat deeper into the Russian interior."

• Done

• 4th paragraph, 2nd sentence: This brought him into disputes with Hindenburg and Ludendorff, who favoured ... GACR Rule 1a "concise"; "This was opposed by Hindenburg and Ludendorff, who favoured ..."

• Done

• 5th paragraph, 1st sentence: ... in the line at Verdun until .... You mean "in the front line at Verdun until ..."

• Done

• 5th paragraph, last sentence: ... was replaced by Hindenburg .... You mean "... was replaced with Hindenburg ..."

• Done

Romania (1916–1917)

• See also: Romania during World War I
  - I feel {{Main}} would work better.

• Done

• Only paragraph, 1st sentence: Falkenhayn ... in August launched a joint offensive against Romania with August von Mackensen GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; Explain that Mackensen attacked from Bulgaria. through the Dobruja.

• Done

• Only paragraph, 2nd sentence: ... no offenses in the Western Area ... GACR Rule 1a "spelling"; offenses -> offensives. Why is Western Area capitalised. Which area is meant?

• Done

• Only paragraph, 4th sentence: ... who is later the Charles I of Austria. GACR Rule 1a "grammar"; "who would later become Charles I of Austria."

• Done

• Only paragraph, last sentence: ... were able to driven off the Austrian forces to Russia. GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; What do you mean?

• Done

Palestine (1917–1918)

• See also: Sinai and Palestine campaign
  - I feel {{Main}} would work better.

• Done

• 1st paragraph, l1st sentence: ... Brașov Brașov ... - Why Brașov twice?

• I removed one of them.

–Dear User:Nicealstn with thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 18:29, 11 July 2022 (UTC)

Dear User:Nicealstn, thanks for your many corrections and improvements. Please find some more below.

Early life (revisited 3rd time)

• Only paragraph, 1st sentence: Falkenhayn was born in Burg Belchau, which is now Białochowo now in Poland, to ... , ancestors could be traced to 1504. – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; The beginning is still garbled. Burg Bechau is such a small place, please mention in addition the nearby town of Graudenz, which is mentioned e.g. in the Italian article (did you translate from the Italian?). The part "ancestors could be traced to 1504" is an entire sentence and should be separated by a semicolon (;) or a period (.). Watch out for such cases; this is not the only time you make this mistake.

• Only paragraph, 2nd sentence: His brother Arthur (1857–1929) became ... and Eugen (1853–1934) became a Prussian General of Cavalry. – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; I feel you need to repeat "his brother" before "Eugen".

• Only paragraph, 3rd sentence: His only sister Olga von Falkenhayn was ... I propose "His sister Olga became ...". It is needless to repeat Falkenhayn here, nor is the fact that she was his only sister relevant. We never hear of her again in this article, which is fine.

Military career (revisied 2nd time)

• 1st paragraph, 6th sentence: He helped to establish some naval bases ... – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; Sounds suspiciously vague. Which ones? Chinese ones or German ones? I doubt its truth. Please add a citation and if possible add some clarififying detail.

• 1st paragraph, 6th sentence: ... Sea Batallion ... – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; Red link. It is not understandable for the reader what a "sea battalion" was, nor does the term seem to appear in the cited source. This seems to come from the German article on Falkenhayn, which links to an article on the "III. Seebataillon". You can of course not just steel something from another Wikipedia. You need to find it in a source. The German article has far more dates. Of course you cannot just steel these dates from the German article, nor can you cite this article. You must find the dates in your sources. The German article is not well provided with citations and not a GA ("lesenswert") and can perhaps not always be trusted. I would feel the sea battalion is not essential and can be dropped, unless, of course, you disagree and can add a clarification and can find the fact mentioned in a source.

• 2nd paragraph, 1st sentence: Service in Asia made Falkenhayn to be the favorite of the Kaiser. GACR Rule 1s "understanding"; Reading up in the source shows he was not "the" but "a" favourite. I propose to reformulate "Service in Asia made Falkenhayn a favourite of the Kaiser." Is this British or American English (favorite or favourite)? I still do not see a {{Use British English}} at the beginning of the article. See e.g. how the code of Donough MacCarty, 1st Earl of Clancarty starts. I see you have {{British English}} in the talk page, but this is not enough.

• 2nd paragraph, 3rd & 4th sentences: After his service in Asia, the army posted him to Brunswick, Metz and Magdeburg. He was a company leader in the posted area. – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; Obviously these were three separate and different garrisons and he was posted first to Brunswick, then transferred to Metz, and finally to Magdeburg. I wondered whether he commanded companies in all three places and did perhaps not express myself very well in my remark. This is all supposedly covered by the citation from the Machine website, whcih has no detail with regard to the two sentences in question. Reading the German article I start having doubts about whether this is true. According to the German article, Falkenhayn commanded a battallion and not a company in 1903 in Brunswick. The article on Falkenhayn in the Deutsche Biographie (https://www.deutsche-biographie.de/gnd118531875.html) says: "Bataillonskommandeur (1903-05)". I feel I am losing trust in your Falkenhayn and may have to fail it.

• 2nd paragraph, 3rd & 4th sentences: On 10 April 1906, Falkenhayn became a section chief of the ... – A section chief is an important man, especially when it is an important section. Which one was the section of which he was appointed chief?

Chief of Staff (1914–1916) (revisited)

• 2nd paragraph, 4th sentence: Falkenhayn did not perceived the need of deploying troops in Vistula. – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; I believe you mean "did not perceive" and not "did not perceived". "in Vistula" sounds very wrong as the Vistula is a river, not a region. Do you mean "on the Vistula"?

• 2nd paragraph, 5th sentence: On the other hand, Falkenhayn favored to send troops in East Prussia, where the Russians took advantage of the weakening 8th Army, the Army unit deployed in the Western Front. – GACR Rule 1a "understanding"; Very confusing: the 8th Army was deployed in East Prussia, not on the Wester Front.

Romania (1916–1917) (revisited)

• Image. Nice photo and well positioned in the article. The caption is too long and not exact. It says "Falkenhayn in Romania ..." but the photo was taken in Paracin, Serbia, 1915

–Dear User:Nicealstn I am tempted to fail this nomination, because of the many factual errors and the low quality of the English. However, I want first to hear from you what you think. We have made quite a bit of progress together. With thanks and best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 13:57, 12 July 2022 (UTC)

Dear User Johannes Schade,

I agree with your ideas about denying the nomination. It was a nice experience to fix this article with you. Nicealstn (talk) 07:17, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

–Dear User:Nicealstn I have failed this GA nomination as explained above. Please do not take it too hard. I am very glad to hear you found it a "nice experience". Try again. My English is 2nd-language like yours. I found that reading "The Elements of Style" by Professor Strunk has helped me a lot. Perhaps you know this precious little book already. Courage. Best regards, Johannes Schade (talk) 17:08, 13 July 2022 (UTC)

Dear User:Johannes Schade, It was a great experience to fix the article with you. And thank you for recommending a book to help me. I already have that book and it helps me a lot. Thank you. Sincerely, Nicealstn (talk) 15:10, 15 July 2022 (UTC)