Talk:Attack on Titan/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

OP title translation

In Chinese writing system burrowed by Japanese and Korean(use similar sentence structure-SOV, frontier words describe letter word), their word has different order even they are composed of Chinese characters, and conjunction is none in normal. So, I think 弓矢 means "Arrow(s) of Bow(s)"(determining multiplicity needs whole context), And Koreans(Twice, Japanese and Korean language are similar structure than other languages) translate it as.-I think that was translated as it because google translate do this. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.183.129.221 (talk • contribs) 17:25, 19 April 2013 (UTC)

Jaeger or Yeager?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

We're using "Yeager"—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:45, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

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What is Eren's actually surname in english? Jaeger(German for "Hunter") or Yeager(American transcription of Jaeger)?--FonFon Alseif (talk) 11:23, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

This blog post by Kodansha claims it is "Jaeger", but according to this edit, it's "Yeager". I don't own the manga, so I can't provide further input. ーHigherFive^ＴＣ 12:57, 20 April 2013 (UTC)

I think i'll change it to Jaeger since that's what Crunchyroll is using.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 05:38, 21 April 2013 (UTC)

It's like asking "It's Titan or Eothens?".Ald™ ¬_¬™ 20:14, 8 May 2013 (UTC)

My suggestion is that it should be Jäger. That article seems fairly self-explanatory. Especially the bit of it being a common German surname. The author may have been going for a German naming theme since some of the other characters also follow this trend. ーKirtZJ^Talk 16:00, 11 May 2013 (UTC)

In the english manga edition the aftername of Eren is called Eren Yeager. In the german manga edition it is called Jäger, which means Hunter in english. In some subtitled anime version it is called Jaeger, which is the same like Jäger, because you can write ae for ä. The english transcription of Yeager instead of Jaeger was probably choosen because most english speakers don´t know the correct german pronunciation of the umlaut ä = ae, which is similiar to the pronunciation of the english word Yeah, which sounds like Jäh in german.

You can find the name of Eren Yeager in the english manga version in the "[http://www.amazon.com/Attack-Titan-2-Hajime-Isayama/dp/1612620256/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1376849003&sr=8-3&keywords=attack+on+titan Look inside!]" of the "Attack on Titan 2" at Amazon.com.

--MBelzer (talk) 18:07, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

This is an obsolete discussion and probably should be removed. "Yeager" was the agreed upon consensus below. KirtZ^Message 22:55, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Shingeki no Kyojin: Before the Fall (Light Novel)

Just found out about a Light Novel about the series exists. Written by Suzukaze Ryo and illustrated by Thores Shibamoto it is set before the events of the manga. Book's available on amazon, English synopsis can be found online.

Info about the Novel should be added to the article about Attack on Titan#Media, but I don't feel knowledgeable enough to edit it in :[ Bandreus (talk) 16:46, 21 June 2013 (UTC)

I went ahead and added the information with a citation. <KirtZJ>^Talk 02:29, 22 June 2013 (UTC)

The side bar info thing for the manga adaptation isn't really correct. Ryō Suzukaze isn't the author, as he's not the one drafting it. So it should be changed to Satoshi Shiki. -nz 06:33, 7 September 2013 (UTC)

Spelling issues

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

We're going with Kodansha's spellings, "Yeager", "Zoë Hange", and "Levi".—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:46, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

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For the past several weeks months there have been issues regarding exactly how we should be spelling Eren's surname Yēgā in English. This is compounded by the fact that the two companies handling localization are spelling the names completely differently. The manga by Kodansha USA uses "Yeager" and the subtitled anime by Funimation (posted on Crunchyroll) uses "Jaeger". Which spelling has precedence over the other? Which one should we use on Wikipedia?

A similar issue arises with Hanji Zoe, who is called "Zoë Hange" by Kodansha USA and I'm assuming "Hanji Zoe" by Funimation. Also Rivai with the choices being "Levi" or "Rivaille" (again I'm not sure which is found in which).

We need to come to a concrete solution as to how we write these names because it is just getting annoying when someone comes along and is used to one of the other forms and changes everything without discussion. This was a problem with FonFon Alseif and now with a new anon IP.—Ryulong (琉竜) 06:47, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Ok, first thing first. I don't like the way you accuse me on my user page of playing around with Eren's surname by claiming i had two people changing it back and forth on the Attack on Titan article. I only do my wikipedia edits at my home PC and was away at work when this happen. So i'm not sure how i can be responsible when i just got back from work and these two people you mentioned are from two different countries according to their IP addresses so there it's unlikely they knew each other. Secondly, you claim i just open this section now to discuss this topic after what these two people earlier did when in reality this section has always existed since April 20, 2013. I have already repeatedly ask you to come to the Attack on Titan Talk page so we discuss about the topic with other users of how should Eren's surname be spelled on this article. Yet you ignored me and didn't bothered to discuss about this topic until now. --FonFon Alseif (talk) 08:21, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Two separate people decided to use "Yeager" in the past two weeks. and do not reformat my comments to connect this discussion with the last one that did not have any sort of conclusion without my permission. I will not allow you to reformat my comments to suit whatever you want. And I am not claiming that you are two separate IP addresses. I stated that myself and one of the IP addresses have both went with Kodansha's spelling forms, and then you changed it back, and then we reverted, and you reverted it again. And as this goes beyond Yeager vs. Jaeger, it is best we discuss this in a new thread. But let's not dwell on this meta bullshit any longer.

So, as I initially intended with this new thread, which set of spellings we should be using? Kodansha's Yeager, Rivaille, Zoë Hange, etc., or Funimation/Crunchyroll's Jaeger, Levi, Hanji Zoe, etc. Both are official. Both have equal levels of usage amongst reliable sources (as they are the only reliable sources really). And we cannot base our decision on which the fandom prefers over the other.—Ryulong (琉竜) 08:49, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

First, i want to apologize for earlier since i had a bad day and then i read your message and thought you were accusing me of trying to play around with the article by pretending or hiring someone else which made me upset. Now that i have cool off i realize i had no right to be angry with you during that time when i should have read carefully so i'm sorry. As for your inquiry why did i change the edits on the surname, until there is consensus among everyone over how should we call the main character's surname, the name will stay unchanged for the time being. Now i have to go somewhere to treat my headache so i'm might not be available during this discussion. --FonFon Alseif (talk) 14:13, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Thank you. And this goes beyond Jaeger/Yeager so we need to have some sort of discussion as to whether or not we go with Kodansha or Funimation.—Ryulong (琉竜) 14:29, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

These are just some brainstorming suggestions so feel free to shoot them down.

• Until this matter can come to some kind of concrete agreement can't we temporarily use the naming schemes for which ever company first started releasing the media into the English-speaking world whether it be the manga by Kodansha or the anime by Funimation. We may be able to avoid or at least dampen the extent to which the names are changed.
• CR is streaming the series as well although I don't know what names they use since I don't watch their subs of this anime. But if they use the same names as Kodansha OR Funimation and not both in a mixed mesh, we could go with those names since they'd most likely be the most popular ones in the English-speaking world. I think I recall this somewhere in the MoS although I may be remembering wrongly. KirtZJ^Talk 19:09, 25 July 2013 (UTC)

Kodansha has apparently started first with "Yeager" and "Zoe Hange" etc. but people really like the fan scanlations and fansubs' translations which is causing problems. I can't watch Crunchyroll or Funimation over here so I can't test this.—Ryulong (琉竜) 15:34, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Well, essentially the question is "Which translation is 'more correct'?" Obviously Eren's last name comes from the German word "Jäger," as was previously stated, which would be the "most correct" translation. According to the Wikipedia page on "Ä," however, "ae" is an appropriate substitute for "Ä" in countries that don't have "Ä" in their alphabet in the same way that "ue" is an appropriate substitute for "Ü" (Führer vs. Fuehrer, for example). In my opinion, anyone using "Yeager" is just being stubborn because they read the manga; it's like arguing that Zoro from One Piece should be spelled "Zolo" because that's how it was in the first volume of the manga (or even more, I don't know, I never read past that), when in reality "Zoro" is the "more correct" translation. Basically what I'm getting at is it should either be spelled "Jäger" (because that's the original German word), or it should be "Jaeger" (because it's considered an appropriate substitute of the spelling for foreign languages). There is little to no reason to be using "Yeager." Those arguing for "Yeager" are arguing for the "original version" of the text, which just goes against them since "Yeager" isn't the original word. It's a stupid argument, and quite frankly "Yeager" looks stupid. Kodansha even used "Jaeger" on one of their announcements on their site here --Zanzors (talk) 16:35, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Apparently in printed copies it is different, and "Eren Yeager" is used in the English volumes. "Jaeger" is used by Crunchyroll. We need to determine which has greater preference.—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:14, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

In June, the official Japanese Twitter account for the manga posted this stating that the official English forms are "Eren Yeager", "Mikasa Ackerman", "Armin Arlert", and "Levi".—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:20, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Two things: I should've worded it better in my argument that it does not matter what the official English version is, what matter is the correct and intended English version. If the author wrote it using a German word that was then transcribed into Japanese characters, wouldn't you just write it in German with the original Latin characters when translating it back into English? It honestly just doesn't make sense to me. And secondly, I thought most people here in the Talk section already expressed their preference in "Jaeger." --Zanzors (talk) 16:35, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Like KirtZJ said, we should get someone who watches the show on Funimation's website to see what translation they are using for the names and use them for this Wikipedia. Even if it doesn't match what the official Japanese Twitter said, we will have to use the Funimation version just like how Detective Conan is called Case Closed over here and the main character's name is Jimmy Kudo even though his actually name in Detective Conan is Shinichi Kudo.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 16:42, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Zanzors, no. The official English version takes precedence over anything else because your "correct and intended English version" is in violation of WP:OR. While we can postulate that Hajime Isayama was thinking of the German word "Jäger" when coming up with Eren's surname, we cannot state this without a reliable source that points this out. Additionally, it cannot be used as it is not the most common name in reliable sources. Right now, this is a toss up between "Yeager", announced by the official Japanese Twitter and in use in print by Kodansha USA in their translation of the manga, or "Jaeger", allegedly used by Crunchyroll and Funimation in their subtitles of the anime. As I am currently in Japan I cannot determine this myself. Also, this particular page's preference for "Jaeger" does not trump WP:COMMONNAME.

FonFon Alseif, that would be useful to see what they are using, but it still should not be the final decision in whether or not Wikipedia uses "Yeager" or "Jaeger". The fact that "Meitantei Konan" is known as "Case Closed" in English is not the same, because at no point in its history was it known as "Detective Conan" in English releases. Again, WP:COMMONNAME rules here, and we have to determine which is more prevalent or which should be chosen according to Wikipedia guidelines and policies.—Ryulong (琉竜) 16:59, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Crunchyroll and Funimation do both use "Jaeger," I can confirm this as I watch the Crunchyroll version and just watched the Funimation version on Hulu. I just wanted to confirm this so you can no longer make your side look somehow more reasonable by being able to call it "alleged." So we have one official source using "Yeager" but has also used "Jaeger" in an announcement, and two official sources using only "Jaeger." "The official English version takes precedence over anything else..." that's why I've been rooting for "Jaeger," because two official sources use it, but I know you're just gonna throw out the "manga coming first" thing at me, so seriously pay attention: two official sources both use Jaeger, one official source is known to primarily use "Yeager," but has also been seen using "Jaeger." Not only this, but his last name is based on the German word for "Hunter" and "Jäger" and "Jaeger" would be the two versions of the name to fit this. Since both Crunchyroll and Funimation both use "Jaeger" and it is an accepted version in which to write "Jäger," I say it's only logical to use "Jaeger." From my understanding, it is a very small minority of people who use "Yeager." It's like I said before with the whole "Zoro" and "Zolo" thing; "Zoro" is both officially used as well as correct to use despite the fact that the official manga version uses "Zolo." --Zanzors (talk) 17:16, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Okay, so we have the official anime subs going with "Jaeger" and the English manga and Japanese sources going with "Yeager". However, we cannot use any of the knowledge that we know it's derived from the German "Jäger" in our decision because that's WP:OR. And yes, "Yeager" was in official use first. Now WP:COMMONNAME decides which has more precedence.

However, we still have the "Levi"/"Rivaille" issue (the tweet uses "Levi") and the "Zoë Hange"/"Hanji Zoe" issue ("Zoë Hange" is in print with Kodansha).—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:24, 28 July 2013 (UTC)

Levi. Just Levi. As in Levi's jeans. The Japanese characters in both Levi's jean and Levi's name are the same. I have no idea who ever came up with Rivaille. It doesn't sound like a name but some misspelling of Ravioli. Even in the anime, everyone calls him Levi. And now about "Zoë Hange"/"Hanji Zoe", now this is just weird. I have no idea where Kodansha USA said her name is Zoë Hange/Zoe Hanji since Hange/Hanji is her given name and her name in Japanese is written in western order: given name and surname, and almost every site that reviews/watches/talks about the series calls her Hange Zoë/Hanji Zoe. Even the anime calls her name that way. This could be a mistake in their part.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 14:30, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

I looked at the Japanese Wikipedia article and they have her name written as Hange/Hanji Zoe. I'm guessing this way (putting the "Hange/Hanji" before the "Zoe") to write her name was intentional, regardless of which name (given or family) they refer to her in the anime/manga. So now we should probably move on to figure out the correct spelling.

One other thing, it's probably just me but for some reason the word "Rivaille" reminds me of the way the romaji for "Levi" may supposed to sound like. This probably makes no sense, I just thought I'd throw that out there even though I agree with the name "Levi".KirtZJ^Talk 14:49, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

Kodansha USA uses "Zoë Hange" instead of "Hanji Zoe". That's all I'm aware of. And upon further thought it really shouldn't be "Rivaille" as that would be "Rivaiyu" in Japanese. However, Kodansha USA's Tumblr seems to use "Hange Zoe" as a tag [1].—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:12, 29 July 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Technology

I would like to talk about the recent edition of this article. Anonymous person changed the first line, stating that Humanity didn't devolve the story is based in the 8th century. Meanwhile, people on the Internet seem to disagree - for example: "How they developed the 3-D maneuver gear, railroads or even gunpowder (and guns)"? What is the official statement of show creators about the timeline and AoT universe's technology?

This cannot be adequately determined.—Ryulong (琉竜) 05:44, 19 August 2013 (UTC)

Hange's name

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

For consistency we're using Kodansha USA's official spelling: "Zoë Hange"—KirtZ^Message 17:20, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

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Since we have settled how to spell the characters name in this article, it's time for another topic, Hange's name.

Hange's full name is Hange Zoë but for some reason, Kondansha USA rearranged her name as Zoë Hange. This wouldn't a problem if that character was japanese except her name is written in Western order in the japanese manga ((ハンジ・ゾエ Hanji Zoe) Notice the dot in the middle of her which shows that her name is in western order (Given name, Surname) not Japanese (Surname, Given name) like the others eg. Mikasa Ackerman (ミカサ・アッカーマン) ) and in the anime, she gives out her name as Hange Zoë. --FonFon Alseif (talk) 07:36, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Family Name Given Name orders are present in the west although not that often.—Ryulong (琉竜) 08:39, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Except everyone names in Attack on Titan is Given Name Family Name order.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 09:09, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

I think I know what Kodansha USA was thinking here. "Zoë" happens to be a fairly common Given name used in the English speaking world and is a variation of "Zooey". They probably figured "Zoë Hange" would look more attractive when written in the printed manga to English readers rather than "Hange Zoë" because it is fairly unusual to see "Zoë" as a surname on this side of the world. That's really all there is to it. KirtZ^Message 10:05, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

However, this only causes confusion with the manga readers and anime viewers over her name and which is the right way of saying it.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 10:50, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

We could always clarify this with a note? KirtZ^Message 10:55, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Ok, but i prefer we use "Hange Zoë" with a note saying Kondansha USA wrote her name as "Zoë Hange".--FonFon Alseif (talk) 11:40, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

No, we should go with Kodansha and use "Zoe Hange".—Ryulong (琉竜) 12:06, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Agreed. I also think the note may be a good idea here. Someone could edit it in and see how it looks. If it's only for the character article it'll work, especially if we start anchoring the character names and link them to the episode list and chapter lists, meaning that we'll only need one note. KirtZ^Message 13:02, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

So we're just using a Woolseyism translation of a character's name by one official licensor when the other official licensors did it the way it was written? Fine, go ahead. I wouldn't be surprise when the anime dub comes out in 2014, we might change the name again. Here's the note we should put in the characters section for her.

"Hange's name is actually written as "Hange Zoë" in the original manga and anime but was written as "Zoe Hange" in the Kondansha USA manga translation."--FonFon Alseif (talk) 15:08, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Don't go Troper on us just because you want to be loyal to the name order in Japan.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:13, 23 August 2013 (UTC)

Something interesting i found while on the net over here.--FonFon Alseif (talk) 12:23, 16 September 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Genre

Why is Attack on Titan listed as a Dark Fantasy? It's as much a fantasy as Star Trek or Star Wars is, in that it's only taking acceptable deviations from real world science to make things work. Much of everything in Attack on Titan can be explained scientifically, including the titans and everything about them. The 3D Maneuver Gear is scientific as well.

This should be listed as a work of Science Fiction. 24.34.79.89 (talk) 05:35, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

Science fiction is generally limited to present day and speculative futures. "Dark fantasy" fits it better considering its setting does not meet this criteria.—Ryulong (琉竜) 06:37, 9 September 2013 (UTC)

I knew someone would touch on this eventually. Even though the series may have >>minor hints<< of science fiction and other sub genres of such, it is as Ryulong said, and as I have been editing in the past; Dark Fantasy remains the most accurate genre for this series. >> KirtZ^Message 16:35, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

If anything it's just barely bordering on steampunk, but until the truth behind the titans is revealed we won't know shit.—Ryulong (琉竜) 20:06, 10 September 2013 (UTC)

Their origin is heavily hinted. We really only need to know how the titan shifters' change into titans to confirm if it is science, because of the need to follow the law of conservation of mass in order to make them work scientifically

24.34.79.89 (talk) 06:56, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

That may be, but this series is already ongoing and what ever genres where established at the start up until now should be used. I dont see the point of putting a Science genre halfway through for one plot detail when the ones already listed far outweigh it. Also, this is a fictional work; making an attempt to establish a real world scientific connection would be wasted effort since that would/may be purely speculation somewhat bordering on WP:Fancruft and we'll probably even have to wait for an official source to list it as a science genre and this rarely ever happens. Wikipedia is not the place for speculation-even the >hinted< kind. >> KirtZ^Message 18:43, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

Misspelled Attack On Titan chareter name

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

We're using Kodansha USA's official spelling: "Yeager"—KirtZ^Message 15:35, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

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The surename of the carecter Eren Jeager is misspelled. Jeager is spelled whith a "Y" at the start instead of a "J" . Please correct the the spelling by changing Yeager to Jeager PacificTitan (talk) 15:51, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

You should read #Spelling issues. It's not a mispelling.Tintor2 (talk) 16:37, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

We're not doing it.—Ryulong (琉竜) 17:13, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

Not this again. Sigh. Read the archived discussions above. Also, your spelling is ironic for a discussion of this nature. >> KirtZ^Message 20:56, 11 September 2013 (UTC)

While "Jaeger" is more appropriate in terms of the context of his name, regardless of its spelling it is pronounced "Yeager" because it comes from the German/Scandinavian word "Jäger" which translates to "Hunter". The official translation is "Yeager" because the translators realize that most people who are not fluent in German would not understand it being spelled "Jaeger" but pronounced "Yeager". 24.34.79.89 (talk) 07:00, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

So you've never heard of Chuck Yeager then?—Ryulong (琉竜) 08:20, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

I guess not. >> KirtZ^Message 18:45, 14 September 2013 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Lead note

A lead note would undoubtedly discourage users from constantly changing the name "Yeager" to "Jaeger." since they obviously disregard the notice at the top of the editing page. So why not? Now that I think about it, I guess that the end of the anime is a legitimate reason though. >> KirtZ^Message 01:31, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

We do not need to have an actual footnote that shows up as people read. We just revert it every time.—Ryulong (琉竜) 07:03, 29 September 2013 (UTC)

Why not add a WP:EDITNOTICE to the article (that shows up at the top of the edit screen, assuming they're not using VisualEditor), and a FAQ template at the top of the talk page (since 99% of people don't bother reading through the entire talkpage)? --benlisquare_T•C•E 01:11, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

There is an edit notice saying "We use a certain set of translations" but no one seems to pay attention. I attemped to request that "We use 'Yeager', not 'Jaeger'" to be added but the edit notice does not appear to be on my watchlist.—Ryulong (琉竜) 04:55, 1 October 2013 (UTC)

@KirtZJ: i'm a bit confused about this edit i was already aware that the article had a lead note, but obviously it's not very effective. what exactly is the harm in taking extra preventive measures? i'm actually a bit confused about this thread (and i was mixing up notes and notices, apparently). where did anyone actually say not to include a hidden note? ~ Boomur [☎] 00:23, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

It'll end up having the same outcome. Typical IP editors tend to ignore both hidden and visible notes. Happens all the time. As tedious as it is, Ryulong is right, we just revert every time. —KirtZ^Message 00:35, 30 December 2013 (UTC)

Wall Rosé or Wall Rose

Is there an official source which show's the wall name as Rosé? That would imply the pronunciation to be ro-ZEH, instead of ROuz (sorry, I don't grok IPA), while the latter matches better with the katakana spelling ローゼ Rōze. Jostikas (talk) 13:56, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

I am not aware of an official translation but "Rosé" matches the pronunciation better than "Rose".—Ryulong (琉竜) 15:02, 29 October 2013 (UTC)

Kodansha USA uses "Rose". You can preview some of the Manga volumes online. —KirtZ^Mail 23:21, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Funimation anime dub uses Wall Rose spelling. In the episode 4 intro, when they recap that Wall Maria was lost, the narrator pronounces it rose (without the accent), but "ro-ZEH" is definitely used for the Japanese dub. I tweaked the verbiage as Maria doesn't literally translate to "outermost" and Rosé to "middle". -AngusWOOF (talk) 14:13, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Excessive infoboxes

It seems to me like there are too many infoboxes on this page, to the point where their primary purpose (convenient accessibility) is impaired. Would it be possible to cut a couple out? Many of the game ones seem to be sort of redundant. ~ Boomur [☎] 19:17, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

what can be done is make something simiar to Sailor Moon and make it so that it just lists them in the infobox rather than each game having its own section.Lucia Black (talk) 19:25, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

oh, that sounds quite a bit better to me. i suppose it could look something like this:

{{Infobox animanga/Other
| title = [[Video game]]s
| content =
;2013
* ''Attack on Titan: The Wings of Counterattack''
* ''Attack on Titan: Lost In The Cruel World'' (18 September)
* ''Attack on Titan: The Last Wings of Mankind'' (5 December)
* ''Attack on Titan: A Choice With No Regrets'' (18 December)
* Currently untitled Haganeya's VN (18 December)
* '' Attack on Titan: Wall Sina, Goodbye'' (18 December)
* ''Attack on Titan: The Wings of Counterattack - Online''
}}

(i'm avoiding the direct markup in the interest of preserving this page's format) placed either just before or after the live action film box, and with all the other "game" boxes removed. also, i think right now the media is listed in the infoboxes in chronological order, but perhaps it would be better to order them based on where they appear in the prose? is there some hard rule about this? i think it would be easier to have each infobox as close to the relevant heading as possible. ~ Boomur [☎] 23:48, 10 December 2013 (UTC)

I'm not sure if the dates are relevant, but if you like you can add them in. i Do suggest using common western format, and not technical. such as "Month day, Year" and of course year is relevant, its not like the world will end on 2013 and there will be no upcoming years.Lucia Black (talk) 01:43, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

i did put "2013" as a heading above all of them, because i'm assuming there will be more in 2014 for a subsequent heading, etc. ~ Boomur [☎] 01:56, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

I think just included in the date is fine enough. But over all, i still suggest using common western order. Or not include the dates at all, some are really close together.Lucia Black (talk) 02:02, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

yeah, i agree, perhaps the dates aren't necessary at all. i'm guessing everyone else will be okay with this based on the lack of comment! so i'll go ahead and stick it in. ~ Boomur [☎] 02:52, 11 December 2013 (UTC)

GA?

Who ever brought this article up to where it is now the most, should probably nominate it for GA. its really well written. anyways, good luck to you all.Lucia Black (talk) 07:00, 25 January 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, I agree that it is a well done article, however I'm not sure if it is as stable as I would like it at the moment because of all this naming disputes. Of course, that's just my opinion. —KirtZ^Message 09:59, 6 February 2014 (UTC)

Since that is taken care of, i do believe we could put this in GAN.Lucia Black (talk) 16:28, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I was thinking that we could attempt to put this up for a GA whereby the entire community could help in working in it. I'm not sure if that would work. Just a thought though. —KirtZ^Message 17:09, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

should be jaeger

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

We're using Kodansha USA's official spelling: "Yeager"—KirtZ^Message 15:36, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

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regardless of what other people have "decided", erens name should be jaeger. its like calling light (from death note) raito.

at least in the anime, the people dubbing take care to correctly pronounce the foreing names (ie, all of them, except mikasa)

jaeger means hunter, a german word. guess what eren does in the series? KRISHANKO (talk) 07:26, 4 February 2014 (UTC)

I've watched the entire series on netflix. i forgotten. But the manga has been licensed in English, so if we check what the manga says, we should be able to figure it out. the anime sort of used yaegar at first and then switched to Jaegar, but i'll look into it.Lucia Black (talk) 15:17, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

I didnt want to jump in here because I was hoping that the person who started this one would scroll up. This was already settled in Talk:Attack on Titan#Spelling issues. (Fun facts: this is the 4th time this exact topic was discussed on this very page—and the 6th overall discussion about spellings—facepalm). It baffled me that that fans continue to defy community consensus thanks to numerous subbed versions of the anime floating around, particularly fansubs. Attack on Titan is a manga series first and foremost and the English manga names should be given priority. They're also the only names that seem to remain consistent. —KirtZ^Message 16:17, 8 February 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Tragic conclusion based on the mist

While I agree that spoilers regarding the narrative are acceptable, shouldn't descriptions which add nothing to the explanation be removed? --101.174.174.159 (talk) 01:57, 9 February 2014 (UTC)

Is it 3dmg or vertical maneuvering equipment?

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.

For consistency we're using Kodansha USA's official spelling: "Vertical Maneuvering Equipment"—KirtZ^Message 15:39, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

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Every sources (google, wikia and fansub) say the device as 3D maneuver gear, but this article say that device as vertical maneuvering equipment? Why there is a discrepancy? 140.0.229.39 (talk) 11:01, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Netflix also uses 3D manuever rathwr than vertical. if the manga english version uses vertical it should still be pointed out the original term is 3D manuevering equipment.Lucia Black (talk) 12:06, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

The manga uses Vertical Maneuvering Equipment—see Jean Kirstein's description over at this discussion. We really should stick with one consistent source for all the terminology names and character spellings and not a mixture from multiple sources—doing so will only cause much more chaos. Also, that IP pretty much cited every fan source available...see where I'm going with this? WP:Fancruft. As I said before, the manga remains consistent. Wikipedia really cant satisfy everyone.

I'm finding that the manga names are the only neutral ones here. Frankly, the problem with the AoT articles is that every media outlet tried to jump on the bandwagon to ride the popularity of the series and essentially do their own thing which is actually causing alot of fans to prefer the anime names rather than the manga ones. —KirtZ^Message 13:54, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

The manga names should be used of course but also keep in mind that the anime released in english (although not dubbed) and stays faithful to the original language. so we can still refer to it as vertical but we can also mention the alternate/original name. the names for the cast is a different story.No romanization is available.Lucia Black (talk) 14:07, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

All the spelling/naming issues would boil down to the same thing—who prefers what. I actually missed the nihongo template in the Setting subsection. Anyway, insert whatever secondary alt. title is appropriate there. At least this could be one more issue resolved, given that people notice it. —KirtZ^Message 14:19, 12 February 2014 (UTC)

Well the babylon translation device has spoken: A three-dimensional movement device (its not google translate because my school filter is misconfigured, blocking google) Why the official manga translates that into VME is beyond my comprehension, probably because its

true in some way instead of the literal translation? 202.137.25.53 (talk) 06:05, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

Some localization intentionally change translation if they find it too weird and i suppose the localizatoin team thought it woudn't matter. 3D maneuvering gear apparently was too weird, so vertical maneuvering equipment makes more sense. Either way, the anime still uses 3D maneuvering gear, so it shouldn't be much of a problem.Lucia Black (talk) 09:45, 13 February 2014 (UTC)

The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Survey, Scout, or Recon Corps. What's it officially called in English?

On the official English subtitled version of the 25 episode Anime, they are called the Survey Corps. But in the article they are called the Recon Corps. What are they called in the official English manga? Dream Focus 02:33, 15 March 2014 (UTC)

I don't own the English release, but based on this editor's supposed exact copy of text from it Talk:List_of_Attack_on_Titan_characters#Character_Descriptions and peaks inside on Amazon.com, Kodansha USA uses Survey Corps. Xfansd (talk) 01:56, 31 March 2014 (UTC)

It seems that Kodansha USA does use Survey Corps, so for consistency we should go with that as well since we are already placing those translations in the highest of priority. For any other official translation, such as from Funimation etc, we could say "Survey Corps" or "...whatever else.." with the Nihongo code of course. —KirtZ^Message 17:33, 3 April 2014 (UTC)

Funimation dub in episode 1 and 4 uses "Scout Regiment" or Scouts in describing the three different regiments the graduates can join (others are Garrison Regiment (like Hannes) and Military Police.) -AngusWOOF (talk) 05:48, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

External Links

http://www.shingeki-seyo.com/ is irrelevant, and may count as promotional material according to WP:SPAM. Unless http://www.sk-social.com/lp/ is from the official authors, it also may count as promotional material. http://www.crunchyroll.com/attack-on-titan <- See WP:ELNO's #6. *Attack on Titan/Archive 1 (manga) at Anime News Network's encyclopedia and

• Attack on Titan/Archive 1 (anime) at Anime News Network's encyclopedia to be removed due to WP:ELNO's #12, respectfully. Ging287 (talk) 22:53, 19 March 2014 (UTC)

The links you removed where to official websites for the franchise and should not have been removed. The link to the film could be moved to the film article when it is created, but the link to Crunchyroll and the video game websites are fine. Also, ANN is an excepted link on all anime and manga related articles as it is a stable database with a large body of contributes and also contains links to news coverage of the franchise. Thus it does not violate WP:ELNO #6. 24.149.117.220 (talk) 01:18, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

• As I explained on your talk page [2], the article talks about the manga, the anime, the film, and the game, so you should have the official links to those things in the article. Crunchroll is where English speaking people can legally watch the official subtitled version of the anime. That benefits the reader to know. Any article about a television series links to where you can legally see it at. Dream Focus 03:30, 20 March 2014 (UTC)

infobox genres

Does anyone have the official English version of the manga? Does it list what genre it is on the back cover, or anywhere in it? This series is clearly known for its impressive action sequences, so we need that in the infobox. Its what gets mentioned in reviews about the series. The infobox now has a comment for anyone editing it to only have 3 genres, but that isn't a rule, just a minor suggestion. I'm discussing this over at Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style/Anime-_and_manga-related_articles#genres_in_infoboxes. Are the three things listed in infobox now able to be referenced anywhere? Dream Focus 21:33, 11 May 2014 (UTC)

I have added in the four genres listed on the official site of the English dub version of the anime. The others have been removed since they don't have any references to back them up. Dream Focus 16:28, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Crunchyroll isn't the official site of the English dub. "Shounen" isn't a genre and it's listed on the page already. Crunchyroll's categorization system should not dictate what we have on Wikipedia. And the anime is only known for its action sequences. The manga has more dystopian leanings as of late.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 18:54, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

And basically, Dream Focus, you need to stop rules lawyering in order to get your way to have "Action" listed amongst the genres when three separate people have reverted your actions here.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 19:05, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

It is legally played at two places for the English Dub, Crunchroll listing four things under "genre", and Funimation listing two things for genre, Action and Shonen. [3] You have removed what I have, and replaced it with something that has no reliable sources at all, just your personal opinion. Dream Focus 22:19, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Note that three people have not reverted my actions here. You are the only one that removed my referenced changes. Unless you have reliable sources to back up your claim, then don't add these other things. Dream Focus 22:25, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

You do realize that this is primarily a manga series right? Therefore genres from Funi and CR will only focus on the anime and not the series as a whole. Also, CR is only good for its news articles and episode titles much like ANN, everything else from that website is seemingly rushed by its writers without any real research on their part. Also, shonen is a demographic not a genre. —KirtZ^Mail 22:39, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Do you know of any reliable sources for the manga that mention a genre? And its not primarily a manga series. How do you know more people don't want the anime than read the manga? You have now reverted it to the unreferenced version. [4] Dream Focus 22:49, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

Not that I know of. If it's bothering you this much just add a citation need tag to the current genres now until a RS shows up sometime in the future. As it stands the three listed best describe this series overall. Even it it may seem like OR. I dont know who originally added them though. How do I/we know if more people prefer to the anime than manga? You're making this matter a lot more technical than it needs to be.

On another note the limit to three genres is to prevent an over-listing in the infobox. A person even started a discussion here to add Sci-fi to the series for one plot point. We cant have a genre for everything. —KirtZ^Mail 22:53, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

We can have a genre for things of importance, such as action, which is a major part of it. We shouldn't limit things based on someone's person preference on how many things can be in the box without them thinking it looked too crowded. And we need to find reliable sources. No one has a copy of the manga? They usually list the genre on the cover somewhere. Dream Focus 23:42, 13 May 2014 (UTC)

• The back cover of the official English release of the manga[5] says "A visceral and fantastically intense action/horror story." - Anime News Network. The anime and manga have the same story, and the same action and horror. Dream Focus 01:56, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

  Yeah but this is all about barely halfway into the story as it is presently.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:53, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

  You aren't making any sense at all. Do you believe the genres will change somewhere down the line? You removed my two referenced additions, but left two unreferenced ones, with the edit summary "Unimportant to the other genres." [6] Dream Focus 04:08, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

  The genres have changed from the first few volumes where it was generic shonen action to a political drama. Simply bein broad with "action" or "horror" and vaguely citing a review you found on the back cover of the English version via the Amazon.com posting for the first volume does not cut it for sourcing.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 04:38, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

  I suggest citing the original review by Theron Martin instead of the back cover: [7] -AngusWOOF (talk) 04:45, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

  NOTE: You know, alot of GA's on this WikiProject dont reference genres in their infoboxes. I assume its because they makes the box itself look unappealing. —KirtZ^Mail 14:04, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

  Agreed. This can be a commented-out reference if the appearance is of concern. If the article has a Themes section, the genres can be elaborated there, or in Reception if quoting Martin's review -AngusWOOF (talk) 17:39, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

  A lot of articles have large irritating boxes at their top showing what someone believes is wrong for an article, even if ignored for years. We can't just remove something because it makes the article look bad. You got references throughout the article already, so why not some in the infobox? Dream Focus 17:44, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

  How did Maintenance Tags get thrown into this discussion now? Your arguments are all over the place. I agree with AngusWOOF. Also, the infobox is meant to be a quick information box and a super-summarized version of the contents of the article. Usually the things it includes are mentioned and referenced elsewhere on the page.—KirtZ^Mail 18:04, 14 May 2014 (UTC)

I have changed the genres to Dark fantasy and Post-apocalyptic as both are sourced to reviews of the manga. Dystopian and tragedy were removed as they were challenged, but there are no sources provided to verify their inclusion. Action was not added because it is still in dispute and the sources are based on reviews of the anime. There is also the issue of whether action is redundant to the first two genres. —Farix (t | c) 14:12, 15 May 2014 (UTC)

Hidden Edit Summaries

Hello. I have just been reverted twice and I do not wish to start an edit war. I propose that we leave my addendums of the copy and paste of the edit notice to every form of "Yeager" due to the sheer incessancy that these occur. The edit notice is yellow, and is easily ignored. Individuals often times only edit the text, and read only that, rather than anything else. This has been noticed that even with the edit notice, it is often ignored. However, I believe that if they were trying to edit "Yeager" into "Jeager" and saw the edit summary, they would very well stop. Tutelary (talk) 19:57, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Hidden text like that is ugly and unneeded. Just because people ignore the edit notice does not mean we throw in more shit to say "don't change this". We revert, inform users on their talk pages why they were reverted, and if necessary semi-protect this article to prevent further changes.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 19:59, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Article should be semi-protected and keep the edit notice. The edit notice alone clearly doesn't work, the new bold red does jump out more to me tho, semi-protection would stop these types of edits so much better. Xfansd (talk) 20:15, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Actually, my main complaint about the edit notice is that it was in yellow, which was generally an easily ignorable color. I think the red suits it. Maybe it will grab their attention, but time will tell. Though again, why is the hidden edit notice only used on one function of "Yeager" and not the others? Tutelary (talk) 20:18, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

It was supposed to be blue and not yellow though. Also "Yeager" is the most polarizing of the spelling changes.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 20:46, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

I'm meaning that there are at least 4 instances of "Yeager", yet the hidden edit notice is only behind 1 of them. Tutelary (talk) 20:51, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

We don't need hidden notices at all.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 20:55, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

I've reverted enough Jeagar/Yeagar edits to disagree. They are needed. EvergreenFir (talk) 22:41, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

The edit notice is all that is really necessary. It is now more obtrusive and is better than filling the article with a hidden tag that goes "do not change this to 'Jaeger'" for every instance of "Yeager" on the page.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 23:43, 24 May 2014 (UTC)

Edit notice is quite bold I guess. Does it show up for visual editors? EvergreenFir (talk) 02:35, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

That only holds for registered users who are easier to communicate with.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:23, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

The Attention notice really jumps out now. I was wondering if it could be a tad bit more concise though because I'm not sure if the average editor would be inclined to do all that reading if they are just here to change one word. —KirtZ^Mail 21:11, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

We could bold "don't change Yeager".—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 21:18, 25 May 2014 (UTC)

I guess. It looks better now though. Hope this works. —KirtZ^Mail 02:28, 26 May 2014 (UTC)

Jaeger vs Yeager

Please base all future arguments using content that can be verified in reliable sources and do not base your opinions on your emotions and personal experience with having a surname with similar roots.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 10:03, 1 June 2014 (UTC)
The following discussion has been closed. Please do not modify it.
I've read the arguments for one name over another briefly, and my studies in Japanese language with my bit of experience with translating, paired with the fact that Jaeger is my own surname (trying to come to an agreement with Sensei on how my name should be spelt in katakana on my student passport was a headache), I feel a deep need and desire to provide my input, no matter what the final decision by regular AoT Wiki editors/authors. I'm sorry if this is not formatted or placed correctly, as I don't edit wikis often. A brief bit of personal experience, if you don't mind... All through my life my name has been grossly misspelled and mispronounced. It's hardly even a surprise anymore. The most common misspellings I see are "Yager" and "Jagger" - the first going off of hearing the name, and the second by mispronunciations of my printed name (Jaeger), possibly with the common knowledge of musician Mick Jagger. I made a friend recently whose surname was Yaeger, and his first reaction to my name was "they do exist!" in reference to my J against his Y. We personally believe the correct spelling is "Jaeger," like my own name, because it is closer to correct that "Yeager" (my god the vowels are even backwards). We know how it should be, we know the history of this name, we're a proud bunch - sometimes painfully so. Consider the other common German names found in the series - Hans (Hannes, as it is spelt in the subtitles, probably due to Japanisation of the name. Hannes itself is leaning more toward Swedish, though I suppose that could be the case with this character), Armin (consider Armin van Buuren of the Netherlands, where the native language is Dutch), Reiner Braun, Bertolt, Lenz, Wagner, Franz, Hannah, Freudenberg, Rheinberger, etc etc etc. It would be a shame to forsake the German influence on pronunciation alone. If that were the case, why haven't many of these other difficult names been changed? "Brzenka" - who knows how to pronounce that natively? Why then should "Jaeger" be compromised to prevent confusion, why only this name? Perhaps my argument is too emotional or prideful, too centered on what is familiar to me... But if you've considered nothing else, consider that Funimation is using "Jaeger" as well. GTaichou (talk) 06:17, 1 June 2014 (UTC)— Preceding unsigned comment added by GTaichou (talk • contribs) 06:14, 1 June 2014 (UTC) If Funimation is using it, then it can be added as an additional translation. other than that, none of what you explained helps at all. we are here to use whatever english sources use. Don't complain to wikipedia for this translation, we are not the one who made it up. So please use the official english ones. Lucia Black (talk) 08:58, 1 June 2014 (UTC) Have you never heard of Chuck Yeager? We're not changing the name just because of your own personal feelings on the subject. None of this is compelling evidence to not use the official manga translation.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 09:59, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

• Yeager isn't recognized in the dictionary[8], whereas Jaeger is.[9]
• SNK Wikia discussion, wherein it is also pointed out the Yeager was tweeted by Kodansha's editor and not by the author.[10]
• Where Yeager is defined as an uncommon name derived from Jaeger/Jäger.Yeager
• The subsequent article.Jäger#People

I may be bad at forming an argument, but to say this argument is unverifiable is immature in that it seems no real research was actually done concerning the surname. GTaichou (talk) 18:23, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Look, we can't use it unless its the official spelling. Even if everything you say is true. And if you admit you're bad at making an argument, understand that you're trying to use truth over verification. Which isn't 100% confirmed. In fact you're splitting hairs by saying "Kodansha" (the publisher) uses Yeager, not the author. Has the author used it before? And it really doesn't matter. We're not wikia, we're Wikipedia, where everything we put on here has to be "verified". enough with personal opinions and show us paper. show us that in the manga, it was meant to be "Jaegar" not "Yeager". Lucia Black (talk) 19:28, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

If the official English anime version exclusively uses the second set of spellings, I recommend adding that in the List of Attack on Titan characters with extra=Anime: Jaeger. I've done a similar note with {{Nihongo|Koko Shuzen|朱染 心愛|Shuzen Koko|Anime: Kokoa Shuzen}} and {{nihongo|Hody Jones|ホーディ・ジョーンズ|Hōdi Jōnzu|also Hordy Jones}} (followed by a detailed footnote explaining the spelling differences). But this is because I have sources (closing credit snapshots and anime published articles) that show the second spelling. The second spelling would then apply to the anime specific articles only. Alternatively, a note at the end of her character paragraph can be added such as: "In the English anime her given name is spelled "Kayko"." The main article, manga and character list will still show the Y spelling. If the anime flip-flops or can't make up its mind across episodes, use the most dominant spelling and add those details to the footnote. Ignore on-screen spellings such as uniforms and terminal screen entries (Aeka) as that can be Engrish drawn by an animator. Details as to whether it was derived from Chuck Yaeger or Jäger can be added to the footnote if there are articles by the author that support it. -AngusWOOF (talk) 19:35, 1 June 2014 (UTC), updated 19:44, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Yeager is a name that exists, regardless of it not being in Merriam-Webster.

What happens on other websites does not dictate what happens here.

Unimportant.

Unimportant.

Please use reliable sources regarding the translation of the manga/anime (not random sources to show that one name is more common than the other in real life) to frame your arguments on why we should change the spelling from "Yeager" to "Jaeger". Because right now we have the publishers going with "Yeager" across the board rather than any name which may be more common in real world usage for real people rather than the fictional characters in this work of fiction, and is only popular because of the fansubs and scanlations prior to licensing. /thread—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 19:56, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

So far, I have seen the alternate spellings used in the Funimation subtitles according to Netflix:

* Jaeger is used at 6:41 of episode 1 to refer to Eren's father: "Dr. Jaeger, huh?"

* Jäger is used in the opening lyrics (2 minutes into episode 1, but for every opening afterwards: "Sind Sie das Essen? Nein, wir sind der Jäger"

* Funimation's website shows Jaeger: "When the man-eating giants called Titans first appeared, humans retreated behind massive walls. After a hundred years of safety, a colossal-sized Titan smashes through the defenses, unleashing a flood of giants and carnage in the streets. Eren Jaeger watches helplessly as one of the creatures devours his mother." [11]

So this leads me to believe Jaeger is an acceptable spelling for the anime article only. Jäger was only listed for the lyric which was in German or whatever language anyway, so that doesn't count towards the aliases. -AngusWOOF (talk) 23:08, 1 June 2014 (UTC)

Confirmed alternate spellings for the Funimation dub. I watched the closing credits in English for the first episode and it gave the family names some of which were different from the manga spellings, and updated the character page. -AngusWOOF (talk) 01:12, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Please see no original research, which is exactly what you're doing. Tutelary (talk) 01:15, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Are you talking to me? That is not original research. It is looking at the actual screen of the closing credits. If you want a time code from a cite AV media, I can provide that. It's not the same as calling Funimation and talking to someone there. -AngusWOOF (talk) 01:27, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Funimation does indeed use Jaeger (see here). However, after lengthy discussions, this webpage uses Yeager. There's no reason to change it. Frankly it amounts to the difference between color and colour. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:56, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Tagging Ryulong just in case they were not aware of Funimations spelling choice. IMHO, it doesn't change anything though. EvergreenFir (talk) 01:58, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I agree it doesn't need to be on the main page, and definitely not on the manga chapter page. None of the alternate spellings should. However, it should be noted on the characters page and the anime page because that's what where people will want to edit when they don't see the spelling they see on television. As for color vs. colour or MDY/DMY issue, I see that can apply to the minor spellings like Ackerman vs. Ackermann or Connie vs. Conny. Eren's last name is far more notable than that. -AngusWOOF (talk) 03:07, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

So all we really have is the choice on Funimation's behalf to go against the two published versions in their subtitling and credits. Not really a compelling argument to change anything here still. Also, the first openings lyrics don't really hold much weight.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:51, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I think we can add that funimation changed it to Jaegar. its not a huge issue to add that. Funimation should be considered a first-party source. Lucia Black (talk) 08:06, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Starting with Episode 7, the Funimation subtitled version (on Netflix, assumed crunchyroll/hulu simulcast in 2013 was like that too) has changed font and assumed different spellings such as John, Connie, and Yeager (heh, after all that work to add the J) although they keep "Scout Regiment" and "Colossal Titan". As it is NOT the typical Funimation font, we will have to monitor how it is presented on Funimation dub (Adult Swim broadcast, On Demand, or eventually DVD). Also, the dub credits for episodes 1 and 2 show last names, by the time of episode 3, the last names are no longer shown, but can be found in the captions. EFN note is fine, as is with alt. "Conny" for the character list. -AngusWOOF (talk) 13:50, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

So you have been going by the subtitles? the dub is available now although too busy to follow it as i've already seen the entire season. Although, I've seen the English dub commercials, and i definitely hear: "what is you major malfunction, Yaegar". Lucia Black (talk) 22:02, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

On AT&T U-Verse, it has the first four episodes currently On Demand as presented by Adult Swim (so it even shows the TV rating) / Funimation dub. There the captions match the dialogue exactly and the closing credits are presented in English. I'm also using Netflix which has all the episodes subbed, however, the closing credits are in Japanese. For Netflix, there is a distinct change in the subbing style from episodes 1-6, done in the Funimation font, and episodes 7-25. I'm assuming episodes 7-25 are being redone for the English broadcast which is happening this month, so would have to DVR those episodes if they don't throw them on the On Demand section. I can do a check against Crunchyroll and Hulu too, but I suspect those will be like episodes 7-25. -AngusWOOF (talk) 22:38, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

OK: Hulu is using the old font for episodes 7-25. Crunchyroll put their first half of the series on hiatus, but episodes 14 look like the old font as well. [12] So those are the older subs that were simulcast. -AngusWOOF (talk) 22:45, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

If memory serves me right, I would agree with AngusWOOF, Lucia Black and Ryulong. We should primarily use the Kodansha translation and use the Funimation names only when necessary. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:05, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

My comment indeed was intended for you. You are doing your own research. You are literally watching Netflix subs, as well as recording at one point "Yeager" or "Jeager" are mentioned in the show. This is a textbook example of original research, and hence would at no point make it into the article. I do cede however that the policy does not apply to talk pages. However, if you are trying to make a case for why "Jeager" would be the correct spelling, use reliable sources to demonstrate your cause, not doing your own research. Tutelary (talk) 22:50, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Not exactly, those are primary sources, and therefore can be used to verifying info. Lucia Black (talk) 23:31, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

Per WP:TRANSCRIPTION "Faithfully translating sourced material into English, or transcribing spoken words from audio or video sources, is not considered original research." If you want to see a comparison of the 2013 simulcast subbed product and the 2014 dubbed product, I have laid out the sources all of which are primary. This shows that, without any synthesis or analysis, Funimation has used BOTH Jaeger and Yeager, and that Funimation is intending to use Jaeger going forward. On top of that I'm not even transcribing the audio, I'm looking at the friggin' captions and subtitles on the screen from the publicized video streams. I'm not trying to prove J is better than Y; we've already decided from the start to use Y. I'm merely adding the sources that affirm the validity of the J spelling for the anime from the primary and also from the WP:RS articles and websites. -AngusWOOF (talk) 23:41, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

According to WP:PRIMARY, Any interpretation of primary source material requires a reliable secondary source for that interpretation. A primary source may only be used on Wikipedia to make straightforward, descriptive statements of facts that can be verified by any educated person with access to the primary source but without further, specialized knowledge. Sure, it can be used to say "At x point in anime, 'Jeager' shows up.' That's pretty much all that the primary source could be used for. But formulating an argument based on original research is faulty in itself, especially on doing interpretation of a primary source.

You're not translating, you're looking at the video streams. You said it yourself, you're not translating anything. I have not seen you cite a single source, all from Netflix or Funimation studio, but not a single source. Tutelary (talk) 23:47, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

We can just mention that in the anime at certain times it has been translated to Jaegar concurrently with Yeagar. And we just have to list not all but just one or two occurences when they refer to him as Jaegar. And he said he's not translating himself, because its already translated by 1st party sources. Lucia Black (talk) 23:50, 2 June 2014 (UTC)

I don't need the cite AV media for the Y and J argument as that has been sufficiently cited by the WP:RS already listed. I will go ahead and do the cite episodes for the Adult Swim dubs and the Netflix/Crunchyroll/Hulu subs. -AngusWOOF (talk) 00:11, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

@Tutelary: I do not know what original research is going on here. Editors are taking the closed caption script to check of there are an alternative spellings of the name. Another way to check would be the closing credits or Funimation's website[13] to confirm alternative spellings. This is not anything here remotely violating original research as there are no form of analyst or interpretation taking place. Just verification of a basic fact. —Farix (t | c) 02:03, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Yeah, these claims that WP:OR is being violated makes no sense. All we're doing is checking what spelling appears in the credits or closed captions (subtitles).—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 06:04, 3 June 2014 (UTC)

Production

The recent info added to the Production section by Tintor2 is a straight copy-and-paste job from the ANN source they used. The stuff about a drunk customer was actually already there (got moved to the second paragraph), so its now given twice. Also there is no source for the recently added claim of that visual novel being an influence.

Also want to know other editors' opinions on the "by whom" template that was added to the lead's mention of the series causing controversy. I interpret the sentence as referring to the Korean media claiming it has a "militaristic message" and the internet flame war, both of which are sourced in the reception, which is why I removed it when it was first added. Therefore I think its fine as is, but should it be more specific and explain this? Xfansd (talk) 04:12, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

If it has anything very specific production info, it can be used, but if the other information is already spread in other more relevant sections, just stick with production. You could use the source already provided. If theres any unsource info, you can remove it. So long as you know its not sourced. Lucia Black (talk) 04:14, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

The sentence deals with the last paragraph of the reception and since there are different sources, it sounds like a general statement without the tag which might make more sense. —KirtZ^Message 04:32, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I originally tagged the "by whom", but I think the sentence has since been reworded to relate it to "nearby Asian countries". -AngusWOOF (talk) 14:33, 16 June 2014 (UTC)

I've reverted the article to a point prior to Tintor2's addition of the almost directly copied content.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 11:21, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Actually, this is a big copyright violation issue and I'm going to bring it up in the proper channel as I noticed he had copied some horribly written text from ANN onto Saint Seiya: Legend of Sanctuary recently.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 11:23, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

Jumping in here---can we get a source for the "controversy"? lacking any ref - B

List of Attack on Titan light novels

I really dont think we need a whole new page just for the light novels. All that seems to have been done is stretching something that doesn't need to be. Especially since the number of Manga far outweighs the side story novels. All AoT print media might be better presented on a single page, i.e. List of Attack on Titan chapters albeit split into sections. —KirtZ^Message 19:43, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Yeah. It shouldn't be separate at this stage.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 19:48, 17 August 2014 (UTC)

Genre

I realize that the Genre is based on official listing and not interpretation, but recent chapters have confirmed it is a Dystopia. All I'm asking is that it be considered adding it or at least adding it at the first sign of Dystopia being added as a genre. 24.34.79.89 (talk) 14:35, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

You need some reviews and descriptions first such as:

• http://robot6.comicbookresources.com/2014/04/comics-a-m-attack-on-titan-passes-30m-in-sales-in-japan/ Brigid Alverson of CBR calls it a dystopian fantasy
• http://www.randomhouse.com/book/239947/attack-on-titan-before-the-fall-novel-by-ryo-suzukaze - Random House categorizes the light novel as Juvenile Fiction - Dystopian
• http://amazingstoriesmag.com/2013/07/review-attack-on-titan/ Travis Mataya of Amazing Stories magazine "The story takes place in a dystopian future where large beings known as titans have pushed humanity to the brink of extinction."

However, http://www.tor.com/blogs/2014/01/anime-year-in-review Tor.com's review of top 10 anime shows picked two other shows as dystopian and called Attack on Titan "a mix of fantasy, action and intrigue" Would that be enough to call it that? And how it that related to post-apocalyptic (is it a subset of that or superset?) -AngusWOOF (talk) 16:33, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

We need one more Genre, but does it really have to be Dystopia? Why cant we just use the general genres from a publisher's main AOT page instead of all this research. I dont see why the genres have to evolve as the series evolves. I think that the initial genres that the series started off with would have been fine. For instance, Madman Entertainment's main page lists Action & Adventure, Horror, Sci-Fi & Fantasy So we should just use those and be done with it. —KirtZ^Message 20:23, 4 September 2014 (UTC)

Tribute game

If I were to find reliable sources describing the tribute game, would it be able to be added with regards to due weight? Tutelary (talk) 19:20, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Since it is fan produced, you can find some critics reviews for sources. So far I've only seen IGN blog writings and forum posts, which is user-generated. Then, it could be added to the Legacy (Impact on popular culture, parodies - especially if it starts some naming trend like "Attack on ..." or "...on Titan") along with this Minecraft mod mentioned by Kotaku: [14] -AngusWOOF (talk) 19:45, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

OK found it!: [15] -AngusWOOF (talk) 19:51, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Kotaku isn't exactly a reliable source.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 20:05, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

I've known from my plights on Wikipedia that it's also self published. In short, I'd like to ask on the condition that there are a few reliable sources, would there be any objections to adding it on other grounds? Tutelary (talk) 20:06, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

If anything outside of Kotaku can be found then yeah it should be fine to talk about the unofficial game. Might be some stuff in the Japanese and Chinese blogospheres.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 20:58, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Hmm, I would have thought Eisenbeis would be notable but yeah, better source from a RS reviewer would be good. Besides a commentary about him on Forbes: [16] -AngusWOOF (talk) 21:22, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

I see Kotaku on WP:VG/RS. Gabriel Yuji (talk) 01:42, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

I was under the impression that Kotaku was iffy.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 07:15, 9 June 2014 (UTC)

I dont think we should include any kind of fan media, games or otherwise. If we did this then whats stopping people from including stuff like Yugioh Virtual Desktop and Duel Network to the Yugioh pages? —KirtZ^Message 03:14, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I just did a check and that page probably should be deleted. —KirtZ^Message 03:16, 15 June 2014 (UTC)

I think it should be included considering how big of a media impact it has had. Node, an extremely popular gaming channel plays it regularly, as do other youtubers. Node's videos playing this game have reached over 1.5 million views, so its clearly a game people know. The official games have been Japanese only. This is one of the few, if not only, AoT games that is in English. It has also been talked about on many sites, not just Kotaku. A simple google search brings up tons of results.Dudelets (talk) 04:31, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

This does not equate to notability or importance for inclusion here.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 04:37, 7 November 2014 (UTC)

Create film article?

Hello. Since principal photography of Attack on Titan has not yet begun, per WP:NFF, I propose that we should create an article, appropriately titled Attack on Titan (film) should we get confirmation that principal photography has begun. Thoughts or objections? Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 09:33, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

Why not just create the article when there are sources?—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 09:53, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

I've created the article in my sandbox. If anyone wants to help, please feel free to do so. Thanks, Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:43, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

If there are no reliable sources then there's nothing we can do at this stage.—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 03:23, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Here's a source that confirms that filming is taking place: [17]. In this source, it says that principal photography actually began on May 14, 2014, so we can confirm that principal photography has begun. Unless someone objects, I'm going to start adding sources and preparing the article in the next couple of days per WP:NFF (we actually have at least a few sources for principal photography). Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 21:56, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

But if we do not have sources showing notability then what matters?—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 22:51, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Well, I'll see what can be done about it. The Nishinippon source is notable because it details the start of principal photography and where it is taking place, so that meets the requirements of WP:NFF. In the meantime, I'll notify WP:FILM and WP:ANIME about getting some help in expanding the article in my userspace before moving it into the mainspace. Lord Sjones23 (talk - contributions) 22:55, 21 November 2014 (UTC)

Since now there are sources I agree with creating the article, but the ANN source says it will actually be two films. Will you create one article for both films, or two articles, or something like Kill Bill, where there are three articles?--Cattus ^talk 17:59, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Isn't one film just an anime recap and the other an actual live action film?—Ryūlóng (琉竜) 19:58, 25 November 2014 (UTC)

Yes. If anything, I would prefer an article for the live-action film, but the recap should probably just be mentioned in the article instead. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 10:31, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Are you sure? The first paragraph on the ANN article says there'll be two live action films.--Cattus ^talk 18:09, 26 November 2014 (UTC)

Plot tidy-up

Hi, I came here due to interest generated by the upcoming live-action film. The story sounded interesting. I find the plot is quite sloppily written with poor grammar and confusing to someone who has no previous knowledge of the storyline. Could this be looked at and tided up by those with the knowledge of the history of the work? Halbared (talk) 22:45, 19 March 2015 (UTC)

Infobox length

Am I the only one that thinks the infobox is unnecessarily massive? At this point it has become a large franchise, and most franchises don't have an infobox with a single header for each new medium. In fact, there is a second section for SNK season 2, while the original one for season 1 is still showing "ongoing". Completely unnecessary. I haven't read them but the various mangas can probably also be merged into a single header. KarstenO (talk) 01:07, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

If anything the manga should all have detailed infobox entries as Attack on Titan is primarily a manga. I reduced the light novel content since there are only two of those entries. I'll add that the season 1 box still reads as "ongoing" because the OVA are listed there and are currently running. —KirtZ^Message 01:29, 5 April 2015 (UTC)

Second season of the anime

Regarding season 2, has it been confirmed that it is in fact going to be a "separate" run, akin to Sword Art Online I and II or merely a second season? I personally haven't checked anything since December, but as is, in the infobox, they are separate from one another. There is no mention of it anywhere in the article itself, aside from it being scheduled for 2016. ProKro (talk) 01:52, 25 April 2015 (UTC)

Update; disregard this. Found the answer.

I would wait on throwing this in the infobox per WP:HAMMER until all the details have firmed up, including the first episode broadcast date. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 14:46, 1 May 2015 (UTC)

I was of the same mind; splitting them, at this time, seems pointless. ProKro (talk) 14:00, 14 May 2015 (UTC)

Isayama interview in Guidebook - lots of influences

The Isayama interview in the Guidebook has some detailed information on what works have influenced his development of Attack on Titan, starting with Muv-Luv Alternative, Hell Teacher Nube to Western films such as Saving Private Ryan, Jurassic Park, and Watchmen. Good stuff. AngusWOOF (bark • sniff) 04:01, 5 October 2015 (UTC)

"A spin-off light novel series began in December 2011, and has received a manga adaptation."

Should be "has received an anime adaptation." Just a typo/error. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 50.148.245.221 (talk) 18:40, 21 April 2016 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:Attack on Titan/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Sainsf (talk · contribs) 04:59, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

I will review this. Sainsf (talk · contribs) 04:59, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

General

• No copyvio/dablink issues
• A few deadlinks [18]

Dead links have either been replaced or removed (One dead link was just a duplicate of another reference). Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Lead

• Reads well, I find no problems

Overview

• Any clear source for the Setting and Plot sections? Just place them at the end of the last paras of both sections

The source is the show itself. Normally plot and setting sections don't need inline citations as it's assumed that the source is the media itself. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

• a giant 60-meter (200 ft)-tall Titan You could simply say "a giant 60-meter (200 ft)-tall Titan, Colossus Titan" and place the wikilink on "Colossus Titan". The link as of now looks a bit weird.
• the successor to the real king, Rod Reiss, as the current king is but a figurehead King of the Titans? This is not mentioned clearly.

The Colossus part has been fixed, while the current king part isn't exactly vague. I can't remember if their kingdom has a name (I haven't read the manga in years) so I'll just leave this as it is; you or another user can always fix it later on. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Production

• Wikilink Hajime Isayama
• He declined and instead, decided to take it Comma not needed
• When designing their appearances Should be clear that "their" refers to Titans, not the humans in the story
• Hajime later would confirm Use his surname only. There is some inconsistency in this

All  Done. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Media

• volume sixteen "16" would be less wordy and better per the MOS

 Done Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

• It focuses on the origins of Levi I think you should say "Captain Levi" and also wikilink the name as it is quite a while since you last mentioned him

 Done Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

• It was also released in English by Vertical. Source?

 Done Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

• An anime television series adaptation What was the name of this series?

The anime is also called "Attack on Titan". It's common for anime articles to not say "of the same name" in articles as anime titles are usually the same as the source material unless otherwise stated. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

• Some unsourced parts in Video games:

• The games are visual novels...supervising the development of the games.

Moved a citation accordingly.

• Additionally, Attack on Titan gameplay...in its Japanese and GMS versions.

Cited. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

• Later was confirmed to be released worldwide along with a PC and Xbox One versions + some grammar error in this line

 Done Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

• It is focused on the multiplayer gameplay but it can be play in solo mode.

Removed the line as I couldn't find a source confirming that. Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Reception

• Attack on Titan was the top favorite manga Italics
• Duplink: One Piece
• Who is Theron Martin?

All  Done Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Political interpretations

• Hajime Isayama's style Simply surname please

 Done Narutolovehinata5 ^tccsdnew 07:33, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

Excellent! I am happy to promote this. Sainsf (talk · contribs) 07:35, 29 June 2016 (UTC)

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Characters

As you guys know, Attack on Titan is one of the most popular anime and since it's that popular, shouldn't we create an article for the characters? (Ex. Levi and Mikasa) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 178.161.100.230 (talk) 15:04, 19 November 2016 (UTC)

Flame War

>Because many of the threats written in Japanese had grammatical errors, it is believed that they were written by people outside of Japan.[149]

Since when are anime fans and flame bait biting trolls known for reasonable grammatic profession? It's not obvious who outside of japan would be implicated. The whole sentence is not substantial and sounds of gossip, please remove it to keep WP:NPOV. 91.66.90.117 (talk) 11:18, 18 January 2017 (UTC)

Controversial political views

There was more blowup a while ago than just the Dot Pixis general:

http://yorozuya-gin-chan.tumblr.com/post/64283661133/zankyo-isayama-hajime-apparently-said-on

But would this belong, if at all, here in the manga page or on Isayama's own page? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.11.148 (talk) 07:00, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

It doesn't belong anywhere because it is not backed by a reliable source. —Farix (t | c) 10:12, 17 May 2017 (UTC)

The article it cites is from the Chosun Ilbo though, so a Korean-speaking editor could scour its content to see if there's anything of note to add, probably on Isayama's own page. _dk (talk) 17:55, 17 May 2017 (UTC)