Wikipedia:Peer review/Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan/archive1

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Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan[edit]

I would like to move this article a step closer to FA status. It received encouraging feedback when it went through a WikiProject Biography peer review which is now archived. I am hoping that the general peer review process will generate additional interest and feedback from a broader audience. I would also like to see the article's rating upgraded. Cimm[talk] 00:05, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The following suggestions were generated by a semi-automatic javascript program, and might not be applicable for the article in question.

You may wish to browse through User:AndyZ/Suggestions for further ideas. Thanks, SenatorsTalk | Contribs 00:33, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Gzkn's review[edit]

I copy-edited some stuff as I went along. As requested, here are my comments:

  • He was noted for reorienting the agency's focus beyond Europe and preparing it for the explosion of complex refugee issues that followed during the next decades. "During the next decades" is unclear, as we're giving no information beforehand when he was appointed United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees.
    Done. I removed "during the next decades" per your suggestion. Cimm[talk] 01:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • After three years of post-graduate research at the Harvard Center for Middle Eastern Studies, Prince Sadruddin followed a family tradition in international service established by his father who had served two terms as President of the League of Nations This sentence is somewhat awkward. I tried to correct it while copy-editing, but gave up. Perhaps you can recast it somehow?
    I wrestled with previous incarnations of this sentence, and simplified it to what it is. I looked at it again, changed in to of international service and added a comma. I do not find the sentence awkward, but maybe I've grown too familiar with it. Cimm[talk] 01:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • He recalled that the Aga Khan... "recalled that his father" might be better there.
    Done. Cimm[talk] 01:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • ...with the aim of bringing original creative work to the fore. That's a pretty generic goal...some more specificity would be helpful to those unfamiliar with the Paris Review.
    It is what it is - I couldn't find much else in the source material about his involvement. Personally, I think anything more specific about the magazine belongs in the Paris Review article. Cimm[talk] 01:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • In 1958, Prince Sadruddin joined UNESCO, and... repetitive from previous paragraph. Instead, try "After joining UNESCO, he became...in 1961."
    Done. Good suggestion. Cimm[talk] 01:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • This initiative brought together archaeologists from Eastern Europe and the West at the height of the Cold War to save the treasures of ancient Egypt which were threatened by the construction of the Aswan Dam, including Abu Simbel, the temples of Philae and Kalabsha and the Christian churches of Nubia. Kind of long and winding. Consider breaking it up into two.
    Done. Another great suggestion. Cimm[talk] 01:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Initially, Bellerive worked with UNICEF and the United Nations Children's Fund... Kind of ambiguous...when did he start working with UNICEF?
    He didn't work with Unicef directly; only through the Bellerive foundation. I don't see the ambiguity here... Cimm[talk] 01:27, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Well done! Gzkn 01:37, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Gzkn - Thank you for your copyediting and your comments! I will consider all of your suggestions and make appropriate updates. I appreciate your time and thoughts. Cimm[talk] 23:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yomangani's review[edit]

I mostly find I'd be repeating Gzkn's comments, but additionally:

  • When he was a child, his paternal grandmother used to recite to him the great epic poems of Persian history. needs a reference.
    Done. Cimm[talk] 23:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Some items could be linked even though they will be redlinks (Harvard Center for Middle Eastern Studies for example). There will be people at FAC who think redlinks are evil, but they aren't, and you could always fill them before you put it forward as an FA.
    Hmm... I'll think about it. Cimm[talk] 23:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Every year the Review awards the Aga Khan Prize for Fiction for the best short story that it published in the past year - would be nice to know if this is in his honour, or his father's or just sponsored by him.
    Good question - I'll see what I can find. Cimm[talk] 23:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Done. The prize was founded by his father. Good catch. I have noted it in the article. Cimm[talk] 23:44, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • ...for the emerging transformation in the landscape of internationally displaced persons - this sounds a bit like a marketing presentation.
    I agree - I've simplified the wording. Cimm[talk] 00:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • When he was nominated again in 1991, the United States and Britain disagreed with his belief in a policy of boosting aid to Iraq. - so what did they do?
    Being the United States and Britain, I expect they simply needed to express their disaproval - indicating they would use their veto power if necessary. I'll see if I can find out specifically, but the bottom line is that without their backing Prince Sadruddin could not become SG. Cimm[talk] 23:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • During its years of operation, Alp Action successfully launched over 140 projects in seven countries. - has it stopped operation? If so, when and why?
    It operated under the Bellerive Foundation, which was folded into the Aga Khan Foundation following the Prince's death. I will look for details on whether the program still exists, but I doubt it. Cimm[talk] 23:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    It does not appear to exist anymore. I have added a paragraph about Bellerive's merger into the Aga Khan Foundation, which should address your point. Cimm[talk] 00:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The "Family and marriage" section is a little stilted.
    Yes, I haven't been able to find a way to soften it up. Will keep trying. Cimm[talk] 23:43, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • And yes, well done! Yomanganitalk 02:30, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Yomangani, I appreciate your feedback and editing! I'll review your comments shortly and incorporate your suggestions into the article. Thank you also for your kind encouragement! Cimm[talk] 23:32, 11 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

SG review[edit]

Sorry for the delay - have been busy. Since some excellent copyeditors have already reviewed, I won't look at the prose - just structure - everything looks good, but can you expand the lead, per WP:LEAD? Maybe one more paragraph, if doable?

I will try to expand the lead as suggested. Cimm[talk] 23:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Expanded the lead per your suggestion. I would welcome more comments. Cimm[talk] 02:05, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Something is weird here - the date of the press release is *after* the date at the top when it says it was last updated ??? Secrétariat de Son Altesse l'Aga Khan, Aiglemont (May 13, 2003). Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan. Press release. Retrieved on 2006-12-13.
    Yes. That site is a good source of information, but unfortunately, they are very casual about updating the last updated date. However, I have seen official paper copies of the press releases, so these are valid. Cimm[talk] 23:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Article authors left off here:
    • "Obituary: Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan (1933-2003)", Al-Ahram Weekly, May 22-28, 2003 (Issue No. 639). Retrieved on 2007-01-01.
      Done. Cimm[talk] 23:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • New York Times Review of The Paris Review Anthology", New York Times, March 4, 1990. Retrieved on 2006-12-13.
      Done. Cimm[talk] 23:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    • "High Minded Action", The Sustainable Sport Sourceline, July, 2001. Retrieved on 2007-01-01.
      Done. Cimm[talk] 23:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I didn't check more - check others refs for full bibliographic info.
    Thank you for pointing this out. I went through all the sources and added author / editor information where I could find it. Cimm[talk] 23:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • I found one piece of wayward punctuation, so give it one more eagle eye - looks good, but I didn't look at the prose.
Thanks Sandy - I appreciate your review and comments. Cimm[talk] 23:39, 18 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

SandyGeorgia (Talk) 23:05, 13 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Review by Jeffpw[edit]

My apologies if some of my comments are redundant. I haven't read any other reviews, so as not to be influenced in my comments.

  • References are not required in the lead. You can reference that material in the body of the article. Additionally, perhaps you want to add the years he was High Commissioner to the lead para.
    I wasn't sure about this but decided to go with references because WP:LEAD states that the lead "should be carefully sourced as appropriate." But other articles don't seem to have references in their lead... I'm on the fence here. Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I got off the fence and decided you were right. I have dropped all refs from the lead. Cimm[talk] 20:52, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • What was the name of the Think tank/foundation he founded? Perhaps I overlooked it later in the article, but the first mention gives no name for it.
    They were the Groupe de Bellerive / Bellerive Foundation. They are discussed in detail in the Environmental protection and advocacy section. Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Could do with more wikilinking. Some terms, like Philatelic, the average reader may not understand, particularly if English is not their first language. Also, some countries are linked, but not others. Canton of Geneva is linkable, too, as is Muhammad and Ruud Lubbers. Go through and link as much as possible.
    Thanks for pointing these out. I have wikified them, but will comb through the article to look for more. Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Iranian links to a disambiguation page. Please change that to where you actually want to link to.
    Done. Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Images: See if you can add more images to the article. I realize that's a toughie, but as the article now stands, it is only text, after the initial image in the infobox. That will become an issue if you nominate it for FA.
    I spent a lot of time looking for the one image that I got, and then even more time trying to ensure that it is legal in Wikipedia. Unless someone who owns the rights to a good photo uploads and releases it for use, I think this is the best that I will get. Other photos do exist, but even if I find a good quality one, how would I be able to justify its use? Any tips here would be appreciated. Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Prince Sadruddin was nominated and passed over twice--passed over is an idiomatic phrase; may I suggest unsuccessfully nominated?
    I considered that phrase as well, but in fact he was nominated successfully, and in fact he actually won the vote the first time. However, he was vetoed from the position. Although it is idiomatic, I think this phrase remains the best fit here. Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • You may wish to expand on the family and marriage section. I would also consider moving it up nearer the top. It jarred me a bit that we "went back in time" when you began to discuss the marriage. I prefer a linear approach (that's just me).
    The organization of sections in this article is a bit jarring. Another reviewer has made suggestions about this which I am considering implementing. Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • While I don't see this as an issue, some others might: You have some French names in the titles of U.N. functions. Could they be translated to English? I mention this because I have come across objections to use of foreign terms on English Wikipedia in the recent past. As I said, I don't see it as a problem, myself.
    The French terms used in this case are the official names of those positions and are commonly used in their French appelations even in an English context. An English translation would bear no connection to the actual position in anybody's mind. The use of French terms is common in the domain of international diplomacy, and draws from the long and historic traditions of France and Switzerland. Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Your referencing is excellent. I don't think you'll find criticism about the number of refs, and you have formatted them beautifully.
    Thank you. Yannismarou has taught me well! Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Overall, I think this is an excellent article. Are you going to do the same for his brother and father? I checked their articles out, and they could use the same attention you gave this one. And one last suggestion: before you submit this for FA (this should be at least considered for FA status), ask SandyGeorgia to have a look at it. She is a very critical FA reviewer who invariably offers helpful suggestions. She also has an eye for detail that I envy. For my money, she is one of the best reviewers on Wikipedia. Jeffpw 10:04, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Jeff. Sandy was kind enough to review this article and provide her comments a few days ago. I really appreciate all of the feedback that I have received and I can already see improvements in this article since the start of the review process. I appreciate your encouragement - if I can raise this article to FA status, then I will give serious consideration to working on similar articles about other members of Prince Sadruddin's family. Cimm[talk] 20:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Anas's review[edit]

Nice job researching this article. Here are my two cents:

  • Shouldn't the article's name not include titles? The article names of all Saudi princes do not include their titles, like Prince Al-Waleed. Please see this. If you will move the page, you will have to preserve the history. That might take some work.
    The name of this article and how best to refer to the subject were debated earlier in the editing process and in a prior review. The sources widely refer to him as Prince Sadruddin Aga Khan or simply Prince Sadruddin. Since he was widely recognized by this moniker, I think it is the best name for the article. Also, it is increasingly common for Wikipedia biographical articles to incorporate the titles of their subject. Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The Arabic or, more precisely, the Persian script should be added. I added it along with the Persian transliteration per WP:AMOS.
    Thank you very much - I was hoping that someone might do this! Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • In the infobox, in the spouses field, you don't need to number them.
    Another editor did this, and while I initially did not like it, I now think the numbering is a good way to indicate the order of marriages. Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Personally , I find it a bit tacky. Oh, I forgot one thing, you should add the years he was married to each wife (1957 – 1962 for the first). In my opinion, separating them with a break and adding the years should make the numbers seem useless. ← ANAS Talk? 12:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Done. The years were a great solution Cimm[talk] 15:10, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • You can add the corresponding flags in the place and date of birth. For example {{Flagicon|US}} produces United States
    I have seen that elsewhere, and personally I find it a bit tacky. So I would prefer not to unless there is a compelling push for the little flags. Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • There are some notable people that need wikilinking. If they have no articles, just create stubs for them.
    I have just wikified some of the people that I had previously missed. I can't find any other notables who were missed; if you still notice some, please do point them out. Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "he was the only child of His Highness Sir Sultan Muhammad Shah Aga Khan III" - Is the "His Highness" necessary? It doesn't sound encyclopedic to me.
    You are right, I have dropped His Highness. Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Let me suggest another section layout for the article. The current one isn't really good. In the first part of this article, after the lead, talk about his life, his biography. So start a 'Biography section, then.. this will make it simpler:
    • Biography
      Childhood and education
      UNESCO (Merge the information in the "Career" intro paragraph into their suitable sections)
      UN High Commissioner for Refugees
      United Nations diplomatic career
      Environmental protection and advocacy
      Death and remembrance (Art collection interrupts the biography. Remembrance is misspelled in the article, BTW)
    • Personal life (more suitable)
      Art collection
      Family and marriages
    • Awards and decorations
    • References
    • External links
    This is a great idea! I am going to reorganize the article per your suggestion a little later on. Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I have just spent several hours implementing the reorganization. It started with your plan but I tried several variations, and also incorporated some additional information into the art collection section. Per your next suggestion, I fropped Family from Family and marriages, and reworked the info to provide more context. Cimm[talk] 05:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I don't know if you have completed implementing the suggestion or not, but I'd like to point out two things. I think that Biography is a better and more accurate title for the section. Early Life and Career (only first word is capitalized BTW) seems sort of inaccurate to me. Also, I believe the Death section should precede the less important sections on his awards and personal life. It is also a core part of his biography and is interrupted by the awards and the personal life section. ← ANAS Talk? 12:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    Okay, so I re-read the article and decided to reorganize as you suggested. I went with Life and career though; I think Biography feels too general - the whole article is a biography. Also fixed the caps Cimm[talk] 15:21, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "The Family and marriages" section has something wrong in it. Perhaps the part on his family is a little unnecessary? You can, perhaps, mention that his father's family traces back to the Prophet Muhammad..., in the Childhood section, delete the remaining and change this into a "Marriages" section.
    It is clear that his family is an important part of who he was and what he achieved during his lifetime. His lineage, as well as the positions and roles held by his father, his half-brother, and his nephew in paricular, are all very relevant, and would have been even more significant during the decades of his youth. They were all notable individuals who had (or continue to have) important roles on the international stage. I wish their articles were better written and researched to reflect this. I am still looking for good material to beef up the family section. Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I moved the family info into Personal life and added some colour and context. Hopefully the new section reflects some measure of why his family was important in his life. Cimm[talk] 05:24, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
    I like what you've done there. ← ANAS Talk? 12:02, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Images. It would be great if you can find just one or two more images. Though I think it would be almost impossible to find free images. The one you're using in the infobox isn't free and that can be a major problem when nominating it for FA.
    Images have been quite the headache. There aren't too many good ones out there, and then finding a way to meet the licensing requirements is very difficult. Unless someone donates a good photo over which they have rights into the public domain, I'm afraid that we may not have much flexibility here. I'm looking into the possibility of including images of his art collection and home... if I can figure out a valid licensing argument. Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Sorry for the not-so-extensive review. Four of the best reviewers have already reviewed this article, so that, and me having my midterms will be my excuse. Drop a message when and if you need anything. Good luck! ← ANAS Talk? 12:59, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you Anas, for spending the time to read and review this article. Your comments were very useful, in particular your suggestion about how to reorganize the article. I am going to work on that next! Cimm[talk] 21:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Carabinieri[edit]

  • First sentence of the article should say what he was notable for not who his parents were. Switching the contents of the first and second paragraphs might be the best idea.
    This is a great idea and I having now implemented it, I think the lead reads much better! Cimm[talk] 20:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • "His career as an international diplomat included a 12 year term as the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees" should probably mention when that term was
    Done. Cimm[talk] 20:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • The article seems kind of dry in some parts. If you could add information on what motivated Sadruddin and his opinions on the topics related to his work, that might make it more lively.
    I will consider this and look through the source material to see what I can find that would further embelish this article. Cimm[talk] 20:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Other than that, it looks good though.--Carabinieri 16:13, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you for your feedback Carabinieri, particularly the point about reorganizing the lead. It has made a huge difference to the article! Cimm[talk] 20:56, 19 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Trebor[edit]

A lot's been said above, but I'll add my thoughts.

  • The lead's second and third paragraphs don't need to be separated - they are commenting on the same sort of thing and this prevents the paragraphs being stubby.
    Agreed and done. Cimm[talk] 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • There's no need to describe his parents as "late".
    Done. Cimm[talk] 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • This is a personal opinion, feel free to disagree, but I think the lead devotes too many sentences on his personal life and growing up. For instance, his growing up in France and Switzerland and going to Harvard gets only three sentences in the main text, yet a whole sentence in the lead. Perhaps a greater expansion on his notable deeds would be better.
    I have shortened the lead per your suggestion. Cimm[talk] 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • Together, he and his father traveled widely - I think that they travelled "together" is implied, so it's a bit redundant.
    I agree, and have re-worded it. Cimm[talk] 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • For the next twelve years, he directed the UN - a bit snaky with parenthetical commas within list-based ones. I'm not certain of the best way to tidy it up.
    Good call. I dropped a couple of the extra commas - I think that took care of it. Cimm[talk] 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • been variously: - I'm not certain a colon should be used that way, it could carry straight on. Also, the "variously" seems a bit redundant.
    Given the long list of position titles that follows, I think the colon helps. I also considered dropping the variously but decided to keep it in the end. Cimm[talk] 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
  • During his lifetime Prince Sadruddin assembled - "during his lifetime" is redundant, when else would he have done it?
    The during his lifetime indicates that he collected throughout most of the span of his life, as opposed to only collecting for a short phase of his life. I prefer to keep it. Cimm[talk] 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
You could try "throughout his lifetime"? (But I'm not too bothered; leave it if you want.) Trebor 23:21, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

None of these are major complaints, and some are purely a matter of personal preference. A very good article in general. Trebor 16:53, 20 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I really appreciate your feedback Trebor; I will review your comments soon and make appropriate adjustments. Cimm[talk] 02:42, 22 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Trebor, your comments were very useful. I'm glad I decided to wait a few days before acting on them - it allowed me to re-read the article with fresh eyes. Cimm[talk] 23:15, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
No problem, hope they helped. Trebor 23:21, 24 January 2007 (UTC)[reply]
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