User talk:Vaselineeeeeeee/Archive 5

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Coppa Italia

Please improve Coppa Italia on English Wikipedia, the older seasons. Thank you very much.--Alexiulian25 (talk) 15:05, 20 December 2015 (UTC)

Re: Buffon

Hi, happy new year firstly! Thanks for nominating the Buffon article and for polishing up those things that are always missed! Can't wait for the season to start up again...the winter break always feels so long! Best regards, Messirulez (talk) 07:17, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

I think someone improved the rating of the Baggio article to B-class...Yes, there aren't too many Italian football articles with GA rating...I've been trying to improve articles of Italian footballers bit by bit, although some I can only do so much to as there aren't always many sources. I would like to get the Pirlo article to GA status ideally...I think it should be upgraded to B-class as it is at the moment... I need to start working on adding more Coppa Italia seasons as well...

Best, Messirulez (talk) 21:52, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

I agree...that's why I have been postponing doing the Coppa Italia pages! I think the Pirlo article just hasn't been rated in a long time, which is surprising seeing his popularity in recent years; I aksed on a page for it to be rated again, but no one has gotten to it yet, so hopefully the rating will be improved soon! Messirulez (talk) 22:28, 2 January 2016 (UTC)

RfC with long title that can't be word-wrapped

Vaselineeee, I don't think that the RfC called for the immediate removal of all composite images. You may be creating some ill will among contributors. Drmies (talk) 03:17, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

@Drmies: There have been many other users doing the same. Examples, Filpro and Iryna Harpy. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 03:20, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Considering that discussions have taken place on so many of the 'ethnic group' articles (and that includes sub-ethnic groups using the same template for Armenian Americans, Arab Australians, Icelander New Zealanders, British Colombians, etc.), it would cause more ill feeling should we not remove these galleries pronto. The only consistent argument I've encountered over this issue is that editors working on particular ethnic group articles feel it is unfair that their gallery be removed when 'everybody else has one'. The only thing slowing down will accomplish is getting bogged down in more arguments about why this or that ethnic group deserves to have a gallery of notables in their infobox. Sorry, but I'm going BOLD like a heat-seeking missile. Discussions as to special cases or what should be used instead can be brought up on a case by case basis after levelling the playing field when it no longer feels as if infobox galleries are a competitive sport (pardon my mixed metaphors). --Iryna Harpy (talk) 03:33, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, that's more metaphorical than I can handle. I don't know if one course of action causes more ill will than another. Drmies (talk) 03:55, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
If a gallery gets deleted from one page, it must get deleted from all pages for consistency. The faster they are all removed, the better. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 03:56, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
I don't agree with that, but either way, you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm just giving you the news. Drmies (talk) 04:37, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Barking up the wrong tree? How so, Drmies? --Iryna Harpy (talk) 04:47, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Because I have no dog in this fight, and am only saying what I think the consequences are of this zeal. I'm looking at recent changes and there are at least three different editors busily removing infoboxes, as if they were all chomping at the bit. You can argue all the pros and cons with me but that doesn't change how others feel. Who knows, maybe it will all blow over. Drmies (talk) 04:59, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Well, yes... and I'm aware of who the three editors are, but I won't say anything more on that subject. I don't believe anyone expected that it would be smooth sailing, which is all the more reason to get on with it quickly. There will be editors fighting the decision and procrastination is not going to alleviate the tension, rather exacerbate it. Every stall means other articles with galleries still in place will be held up as "Why did you pick on this article while this 'n that article is untouched: you have a personal agenda against X ethnic group, don't you!" It's a grief-grief situation. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:10, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

^ Agreed. That's why all the articles need to get cleaned up as fast as possible in order to avoid that. If people see consistency with all the articles they can't have anything to complain about. And Drmies, it doesn't matter how others feel, honestly, since the RfC is closed and the consensus was to remove the gallery, and thus must be removed. Putting it off will only cause grief has Iryna Harpy says. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 05:14, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Note that there are now more regular editors jumping on board and removing galleries left, right and centre. I'm including editors who didn't !vote at the RfC, but are relieved at the decision because I've worked collaboratively with them on regional ethnic group articles and they've been toiling away trying to stay on top gallery edit wars. It's a collective sigh of relief on behalf of editors who are HERE. --Iryna Harpy (talk) 05:43, 4 January 2016 (UTC)
Vaseline, Iryna can tell you I've already acted on the RfC, with my teacher voice, so to speak. Not a very enjoyable part of the job. On the bright side, I can't tell you how many times I've seen, on Recent changes, how a new editor or IP messes up the syntax of those composites when sticking their favorite ethnic singer/rapper/dancer in; we won't be having that again. Drmies (talk) 05:54, 4 January 2016 (UTC)

Club template

Hey man, great work with everything you've been doing. I just have one favor to ask, as a matter of style and consistency across the project. Don't add the general Juventus club template in the reference section. It's rather unnecessary, since the Juventus season template already links to the main Juventus F.C. page, and clutters the reference section a bit. Also like I said it'd be keeping with the other club articles in terms of consistency. Once again thanks for helping me out with everything. Italia2006 (talk) 06:15, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Actually, I reviewed the situation further and you are completely correct. What's more, you've won me over to the inclusion of the club template in all club season articles. I've already done Roma and Fiorentina and I'm working on as many of the other as possible. So actually, thank you for saying no. Seems to be just another way you've been an asset to this project. Italia2006 (talk) 17:20, 16 January 2016 (UTC)

Rollback

Hi. Just a thought, why don't apply for WP:ROLLBACK at WP:RFP/R? It is routinely granted to trusted users, and it would be much easier to revert crap like this, particularly on long pages. (Alternatively, you can turn on Twinkle stuff in your preferences, but I find it a bit heavy for my taste). No such user (talk) 16:30, 3 February 2016 (UTC)

I think it would be prudent just to repeat what you said to me at WP:RFP/R and see how it goes on. In my eyes (and, I think, in most administrators') being honest about your past and acknowledging your mistakes is a bonus. PC Reviewer right is requested at WP:RFP/RV, although I suppose you can just ask for it along with rollback (it's a pretty insignificant right, the only PC-protected page on my ~1000+ long watchlist is London; see Category:Wikipedia pending changes protected pages (level 1)). Please note that rollback is only supposed to be used for blatant vandalism and similar obviously non-constructive edits, and edit-warring with good-faith users may result in its quick removal. Regards, No such user (talk) 08:11, 4 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes, rollback has the edit summary "Reverted edits by X to last version by Y" (and it cannot be customized). Also, rollback reverts all consecutive edits by the user who last edited the page. ("Rollback" option appears in watchlist, history and diff views for all applicable, i.e. last, edits). No such user (talk) 08:35, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

pending changes reviewer

Hello. Your account has been granted the "pending changes reviewer" userright, allowing you to review other users' edits on pages protected by pending changes. The list of articles awaiting review is located at Special:PendingChanges, while the list of articles that have pending changes protection turned on is located at Special:StablePages.

Being granted reviewer rights neither grants you status nor changes how you can edit articles. If you do not want this user right, you may ask any administrator to remove it for you at any time.

See also:

Glad to see you've learned from your past mistakes. You're exactly the kind of editor I think about when I hit the block button (or refuse to hit the block button, in some cases) - the one who is making dumb choices now but might become an asset to the project down the line. If you have questions, just shout. :-) Katietalk 16:11, 8 February 2016 (UTC)
Understood, thanks! Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 16:33, 8 February 2016 (UTC)

Re: Juve 5

@Messirulez: I would ask you if you are doing well, but after today's draw, I'm not sure! Well, first off, what a win last night. We really needed those 3 points against a team that was higher than us in the table to close the gap. Now we are 6 points behind first place and think we are well on our way to reclaiming first spot once again. I think we have the longest winning streak now this season of 6 games. If we keep this up, we should be back at the top in no time! May I say though, that opening minute penalty call was absolute BS to be frank. You didn't even need the replay to tell you what a blatant dive that was. Buffon even almost got there... But what a goal by Cuardado to cancel the goal a few minutes later. That goal was sort of like the goal Sevilla scored on us when they won, in the sense that it was a flutter over top of the head of the keep, and all they could do was watch. Cuardado's I though was more special since he was so far out! Then a good play by Mandzukic to follow the play closely and clean up the garbage in front of the net, high into the corner which is what it needed to be or defenders would have blocked it. And then obviously the third goal, to seal it. But this draw, this draw... It really frustrates me to see teams like WOLFSBERG AND GENT matched up and then teams like Juve and Bayern, PSG and Chelsea, etc. get matched up. Bayern was probably in the top two or top three we wanted to avoid... Well, I guess we need to take some revenge for what they did to us a couple Champions Leagues ago! How Juve is playing in Serie A, coupled with that play to win mindset, they shouldn't have a problem giving Bayern a good run. It's one of the toughest match ups, so it should be interesting. And look at Man City's luck once again: Lucky to top the group, and then lucky to get a good draw against Kiev. It really just goes to show that topping the group is a very important thing. It really is the difference in a long or short campaign. It's what they make of it, which will decide if they go on. What can we do right? We hoped for the best, and it didn't turn out the best. It was funny what Nedved said "I've seen better days" haha that's to put it lightly! The match up isn't for a while, so Juve has time to get their heads in the game. But when you look back at Bayern's CL group stage, they killed the teams the faced every match except one against Arsenal. But then again, Juve also had a good group stage. But look what happens when you tie the "lower" team twice in a row... It deprives you from what should be easy points to get to the top. Anyway, we'll see what happens, hopefully we can get to the next round because I don't want CL to be over for me early!! haha If Juve goes on, then no one can say "oh, well Juve had easy draws to get to the final". So this will be a good statement to show they are one of the best clubs in Europe, and will really boost their confidence should they go through! Forza Juve, Fino alla Fine!!! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 14:32, 14 December 2015 (UTC)

Oh, my goodness...after such a great win last night to clinch fourth place - great goal by Dybala - reminded me a little bit of Baggio's famous goal against Milan in 1993, and yes I also thought Cuadrado's goal reminded of Sevilla's. Unfortunately, today both Juve and Roma get terrible draws...and after having such tough groups...and if we had come in first place we would have gotten Dynamo Kiev; as you said Man City were so lucky once again. And yes some of the draws are ridiculous...it's so annoying. Hopefully we can go through...I'm still upset about last year's Champions League final defeat, so I really hope we can win one again soon, and hopefully I can see Buffon lift the trophy. If we were to go through, which will be tricky, at least it will be a big confidence boost, like last year against Borussia Dortmund, and hopefully we would get a more favourable draw in the quarter-finals again, although that's looking quite far ahead...Juve have shown they aren't an easy team to beat at least, so fingers crossed, what can you do. I'm hoping we can go through and hopefully the English teams will go out so we can overtake them in the UEFA ranking! Best, Messirulez (talk) 16:42, 14 December 2015 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Well that was a convincing win over Torino in the Coppa Italia! I didn't get a chance to watch it, but the scoreline and the highlights said it all. It's funny, as soon as we start saying Zaza isn't "fully there" yet, he pulls off a two goal game! I think on the second goal he got a bit lucky though not to hit a defender. He doesn't get enough playing time at Juve to show himself off in order to get picked for the Euros. But if he plays like that, he can have a shot. And Pogba's free kick, wow! That looked like it came off the foot of Pirlo! Too bad it doesn't happen often. A well deserved and needed win. Juve plays Lazio in the quarters next. We usually do well against Lazio, plus they have really gone down in the standings since October. It will be like an early Coppa Italia re-mach between the two. Hopefully we will progress. Buon Natale e Buon Anno! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 16:27, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
Yes, a good win, although shame about the sending off as that usually happens to Torino and then their fans accuse us of getting help from the officials...but some great goals by Dybala and Pogba (although journalists exaggerate when they say "who needs Pirlo when he can do that"...as you said, if he did it 5-6 times a season then maybe one could say such a thing!). Zaza did well to score a double and finish off scrappy chances in the box (although he was a bit lucky on both...even the first, it looked like he almost didn't connect well with the volley), although he was also lucky not to get sent off at the same time, which is why Allegri took him off for Dybala in the second half. The thing is Zaza will do that against weaker teams but not consistently enough against bigger teams or in Europe, but he is a decent player. Lazio won't be easy, although the Coppa Italia is probably the least important tournament, although I'm glad we finally got our tenth title last year, and I still usually like it if we do well in it at least and hopefully it will grow and become more prestigious! It's a shame we didn't have Milan's draw; that's rather incredible! They aren't guaranteed a place in the final, because anything can happen, but...certainly their draw is a lot easier now! Buon Natale e Buon Anno anche a te! Best, Messirulez (talk) 18:06, 18 December 2015 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Hope your weekend went well! Juve is really killing it with this long winning streak! Let's hope they keep it up! Luckily Fiorentina and Inter lost their last game so Juve could squeeze past them. Too bad Napoli won... But now second place from 12th-17th at the start! It takes lots of determination to get back up into standings from that point, and they did it. Now they just have to keep at it. With a few more wins in a row, they can really take a convincing lead. Not much of a challenge against Verona (they haven't even won a game yet!). The game today was good, they let one go after two up, but they kept their composure and rode home the victory. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 05:19, 11 January 2016 (UTC)
Yes, what a great comeback to finish the first half of the season in second place after such a terrible start, and what a winning streak! It's also great to see Dybala and Pogba growing into their roles and playing so well, and it's also good that most of the other new players are integrating well after a difficult start; hopefully Morata can re-find his form from last season now! I hope we can keep this up and progress to the next round in Europe as well...that would be amazing, although Bayern will certainly be a tough one, as we have already said many times before... It's nice Pogba made the UEFA team of the year, although I can't believe neither Bonucci nor Marchisio were included over certain players (Sergio Ramos, James Rodriguez...), when they were absolutely brilliant in the past calendar year...I would have even put Buffon over Neuer, even though I'm a bit biased; in my opinion, although Neuer is in his prime and currently is still the better keeper (although Gigi in his prime tops everyone I've seen in the past 20 years or so), Buffon had a great year and made decisive saves in key matches, almost winning everything, although most people who follow the Premier League would probably argue that Dea Gea is the best (he is a great, athletic shot stopper, who has improved a lot, I must say! I still think Courtois is better at the moment in the Premier League, though). All the best! Messirulez (talk) 06:12, 11 January 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Juve just continue to impress! Now 10 in a row! Sadly Napoli won again... It will be neck and neck until we face them in a month. It was a nice "pay back" to Udinese today for that unprecedented win in the opening match of the campaign, and what a blow out it was. It was nice to see Alex Sandro get his first goal with Juve, and what a strike it was from the top of the box! Hopefully his show today will allow him to be in the squad more often. Dybala doesn't usually upset from the spot and set pieces. Why Bonucci continues to step up when Dybala is off still amazes me... He usually hits them skyward like he did today! He should just stick to defending haha (although he is a defender with a decent kick, although that doesn't say much!) Hopefully we can snub Lazio on Wednesday in the next round of Coppa Italia! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 21:16, 17 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes...another great win and a great opening goal by Dybala who continues to play well...it's nice Rugani is getting some playing time, and Sandro scored a great goal even with his right foot! Yeah...Bonucci isn't usually that great from distance...I would probably just let Marchisio take them, or lay them off to someone with a good shot from distance...if Hernanes is on he should probably take them, or Pogba if not. Yes, hopefully we can beat Lazio, especially as Milan have quite an easy road to the final! I really hope we can carry on playing like this in Europe as well, and that Morata can find his form again! Best, Messirulez (talk) 15:46, 18 January 2016 (UTC)


@Messirulez: Well that game had it's ups and downs... I mean Juve had a few good opportunities but couldn't really finish them off until Lichsteiner finally netted and what a close call it was, but thank God for the goal line technology! I don't know what he was waiting so long for though! He needed to time it just right, but it looked a little slow to me... A few milliseconds longer and the keeper would have gotten there. Allegri doesn't usually play Buffon in Coppa Italia matches for some reason... Good to see Neto get another clean sheet. Again with Zaza eh? He is fairly inconsistent. I mean he is consistent in finding his chances, but inconsistent at finishing. But what a poor choice for Morata to shoot instead of passing it over to him. It was fortunate enough to come off the keepers leg and back over to Zaza, but the angle was too tight I guess... Still looked like he should have scored from there! The next round is very fast (in a week today) and will be tough against Inter. You're right that Milan had it easy. Carpi and now Alessandria! How Spezia knocked out Roma is beyond me. But yes, they will have an easier time (supposedly). You never know with these "minnow" teams because they play their hearts out and could give a shocker. I don't know if you noticed or not but I also nominated Pirlo's article for GA status since I think the process takes a few months (already been almost a month with Buffon's article) so I thought it'd be wise to get it out there early. At the very least it should be changed from C class to B class! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 00:00, 21 January 2016 (UTC)

Yes, it was close, but I'm glad we got the result and it's good to see the goal line technology being put to use. I think Allegri likes to give Neto a chance as he is supposed to Buffon's eventual replacement I think (although I don't see how that is possible...he's not good enough...arguably no one is, but he's not even potentially world class in my opinion), although it would be nice if Buffon could play the final if we make it that far...mind you he's already won it with Parma I suppose, and the Coppa Italia is still somewhat looked down upon as a lesser competition, in which the starting players of the bigger teams usually don't feature in order to prevent injuries, etc. Yes...Zaza has been scoring when given a chance, despite my continue criticism of him, although he still doesn't convince me, because he will sometimes make some poor decisions and miss some easy chances, and against the better teams he struggles. Morata hasn't been playing well for some time now...I don't know what has happened, since he was so important last yearh, although I still do remember often being frustrated at him last season for making mistakes, it's just that he was always in the right position to score at least, which is a player we were lacking in the past. Inter will be tough in the semis, but we can handle them...I hope we can beat them to make the final again...and yes, Milan have an easy route to the final, but as you said, surprises can happen! I saw that the Pirlo article was nominated, so thanks for that, and yes, hopefully the rating can go up a bit, if not quite to GA status. Best regards! Messirulez (talk) 00:15, 21 January 2016 (UTC)
Yeah, a fantastic result...Pogba and Dybala were fantastic, and I'm glad that Morata seems to have re-discovered his goal-scoring form! I hope I wasn't annoying with the modification on the El Shaarawy goal...it really doesn't matter I suppose, and I'm not sure if in north American English or British English scorpion kick or flick applies to an acrobatic back heel shot in general (and I suppose there isn't too much difference; I know that in different places certain acrobatic goals are described differently, like bicycle kick, overhead kick, scissors kick, etc. and in different countries they actually mean different kinds of shots, which is all the more confusing!)...but I know in Italian "il colpo dello scorpione" usually only applies if a player is diving and then hits it with his backheel in the process (sort of like Higuita's famous save), if not they would just say "gol di tacco", which would be back-heel goal in English, but I really don't mind as I'm not sure what would be best in English football jargon in that case, as it varies. I changed it, but I left a comment in case you wanted to change it back! I didn't even look at the source, so it's entirely understandable that you used the terminology in the article itself! Best regards, have a good weekend! Messirulez (talk) 19:14, 31 January 2016 (UTC)
Ugh...Caceres is out again...he's so unfortunate with injuries, the same with Khedira. Hopefully Chiellini and Mandzukic will recover soon though! It will be difficult without them against Bayern...Best, Messirulez (talk) 18:34, 5 February 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Yeah, it's unfortunate... Didn't Caceres recently come off of injury? And now he is inflicted with such a serious one, ruling him out for a long while. I read an article saying that Chiellini's injury isn't that serious and he should be back in time to face Napoli and Bayern (hopefully). If he is back, losing Caceres won't be that much of a downfall. They don't usually play 3 at the back anyhow in CL. For Napoli, it will be important. I believe Mandzukic will be out for Bayern, but they word the article used was "doubt" for Bayern, so maybe he can still make it. With Morata's new found form, we may not even have to rely on him so heavily. He is an asset to have still obviously, especially in the air! Khedira's also been unfortunate with injuries. Allegri would probably play Morata and Zaza up, and we still have Hernanes he can play, even Sturaro which has been playing decently when he gets the chance. I hope they play Cuadrado and Sandro from the get go, they give such a pace to the game! All in all, if they still think positively and try their hardest, they can still give Bayern a good scare! I wonder how true the Allegri-Chelsea rumours are? I guess for now they NEED to focus and win Frosinone and in turn Napoli the week after to edge them. Frosinone scored on us late the last time so wastefully... If we got the win there we would be level with Napoli currently. There's always what if's, but if they just play hard from start to finish, they won't need to be looking back at what could have happened. Remember the loss to Seveilla? Who could forget!? Prime example once again of not playing the hardest. Literally the WHOLE CL would be different if they drew that match... Really makes you think of what could've happened, but never did! Once again, if they can make it through Bayern, they will have such a confidence boost for the rest of the CL! I really wanna see round two of Juve - Barca final! FORZA JUVE! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 20:37, 5 February 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Uh oh... The small injury Chiellini just recovered from, and now he picked up another, "more serious" one against Frosinone which officially rules him out, a 20 day recovery period. Unbelievable, couldn't come at a worse time, and he recovers about a week later after missing Napoli and Bayern... He misses the CL final last year and now this... Very unlucky. I didn't like what Buffon said. 20-25 percent chance against Bayern? Come on... yes it will be tough and you need to think realistically like he says, but he's the captain and needs to motivate the team to think positively and not think there is such a slim margin (which I really don't think it's as slim as he says, although there are a bunch of injuries now). Maybe the article exaggerated it a bit, I don't know, but still, very uncharacteristic of him. We'll have to see how they adapt and the changes and shifts they make. It will make it all the more tougher with these injuries though... I still think they can do it! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 15:14, 9 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I swa, it's a tough blow to lose him again; I don't why he wasn't just rested for Rugani against Frosinone, although admittedly the game did end up being closer than expected; I know we drew at home (due to lack of concentration at the end), but it seemed like given our form that the away leg would have been a different match, but at least we closed it out at the end with a nice goal from Dybala. I think Buffon just wants to play the underdog card...I'm not really sure what's best to motivate the team in this case! I suppose he has experience with that, and maybe he tells his team-mates something else; I'm sure the team decides what he's going to say to the media as well to some extent. Both teams have injuries, so it will be tough but I really hope we can make it through, it's still annoying that we stupidly didn't top our group seeing as we could have had Manchester City's draw and we were the better team, and after reaching the final last year I would hate to go out so early now...I'd like if we could eventually build a a team who can reach the semis regularly, like Bayern, Barca, and Real, although they also have such a large international fanbase and are financially more dominant, so it's difficult to compete with them. Best, Messirulez (talk) 14:08, 11 February 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yes, I don't know why they didn't just play Rugani against Frosinone... Maybe you're right about Buffon playing the underdog card. But either way, I think he could of chose his words better. Khedira played today, I guess his injury wasn't too bad. Tough to see Chiellini on the bench... But Bonucci did play fairly well today, especially on that play where he got his toe there just before it landed on Higuin's head! And what a stop by Buffon once again! We keep saying this over and over, but he definitely still has it! I read an article not too long ago where he said his dream is to finish after the 2018 World Cup... can he achieve the same 40 year old at the World Cup like Zoff? I think he can! I was getting worried at the end there that Juve was playing too defensively. I mean they had their guys back quite far and even when Zaza came on, he always came back. Which I thought was kind of frustrating since we needed this game to end in a win. Napoli was fine with a draw. Such a close call when it was still tied at 0-0 when Dybala hit it just over the bar, ah. I thought Pogba was getting exhausted nearing the last 20 minutes and it showed in his play. If he's tired, take him off! Even Perayra could have came in. But wow, what a goal in the end. Nice pivot and a left footed shot. These intense goals always seem to come during the final minutes, eh? haha. It seemed like it hit something on the way in that caused Reina not to get it? It was sort of close to his arm. I know we've kind of said that Zaza still needs work etc., but the odd thing is, is that he often finds himself in the right place at the right time and gets a goal every few appearances it seems! I mean, he has to show that he is ready and in form, especially to Conte since he obviously wants to make the Italy squad and start. I would honestly rather play him over Pelle, even though you've said you like him, nothing world class as you've said though haha :) (I really want Balo back, no matter what Conte thinks, I think he is our best forward when he comes to play!) When Zaza got subbed on, my nonno called it that he would score haha and when he did we jumped out of our seats like mad haha what a good feeling to be first again! Now we've got the confidence, hopefully, to beat Bayern, but before, we have to face Bologna, which is a must win to keep confidence up. Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 23:01, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Hi, sorry for the late response! Big win over Napoli...15 in a row now, what a comeback to finally clinch the top spot! Still a while to go in Serie A though, and we need to look to go far in Europe...really hope we can do well against Bayern! Yeah, I was surprised Khedira played, and I also thought a few other players were unavailable as well who ended up playing (I thought Evra would be out). Bonucci did really well with that crucial interception and I hope he is ok after coming off injured; Barzagli was monumental in defence as always, and Buffon made a great save once again as you said; he did so well considering he hadn't really been called upon until then! I hope he and Barzagli can keep playing like this! I think it was a lucky win though; it was a very tactical match, pretty balanced, not very exciting, but that was expected given its importance, although maybe we pushed more in the end and had a few chances on target, as we would have prefferred a win over a draw, unlike Napoli, as you said. Zaza's goal was fortunate, but he still did well; he created space for himself and struck it very well and with power, but it definitely took a deflection off of a Napoli defender (Albiol, I think?), which confused Reina; if not I'm not sure he would have stopped it, or who knows, maybe it would have gone right in the top far corner! ;) At first it looked like an absolute stunner, and given that he came off the bench to score the winner so late in the game, he did really well and I couldn't believe it! I guess he has proved me wrong on a few occasions with his opportunism in front of goal and work-rate, but I still think he's too inconsistent and sometimes lacks finesse and composure, but then again Pellè also struggles to find the back of the net and is less dynamic (he reminds me a bit of Borriello at times, but with Toni's skill in the air and with his back to goal); I'm not sure who I would rather have starting upfront for Italy...probably neither of them! I agree, if Balotelli were to rediscover his form from three-four years ago (although it looks unlikely at the moment), I would definitely want him starting as the main striker, and if Giuseppe Rossi could somehow gain fitness and refind his form from even two years ago with Fiorentina, prior to that umpteenth injury, I would probably want him starting upfront. Maybe due to our struggles in attack we shouldn't even play with a real striker, but with a false-9 instead, as we have a decent midfield, which is our strongpoint, and where most of our goals come from, even though that tactical system is becoming predictable and is moving out of fashion now...it's unfortunate we don't have any superstar strikers anymore, when we used to have so many competing for positions, resulting in some deserving players being excluded from the national team (also due to the Italy coaches being excessively stubborn...the fact that Baggio didn't get called up for a single Euro, and missed out on the 2002 World Cup is ridiculous! And that he was excluded from the Olympic teams in 96 and 2004...I would have even brought him to the Euros in 2004...he was one of the best players in the league, even though he was 37, and that was when Serie A was still the best league in the world; he would have been more reliable than Totti I think, and certainly wouldn't have been banned for poor behaviour!) Best, Messirulez (talk) 17:47, 16 February 2016 (UTC)
@Messirulez: Very disappointing against Bologna... There's not much to say; we needed those three points and they just couldn't deliver. Now we have to hope Milan beats Napoli or else they'll be a point ahead of us again. Not too good for Juve's morale right before the Bayern game... But again, what have we said about Juve facing "weaker" teams... They can be just as hard to beat if you don't come to play. Let's just hope they go at it a lot harder on Tuesday! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 22:02, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
Yes, that was rather embarrassing; a terrible performance, and ridiculous that we couldn't even manage a single shot on goal, it was very frustrating to see. Bologna did well though; a good stop by Buffon on Destro, and some good interceptions by Barzagli once again, but that's about it from us. We kept possession, but then we didn't create and defended badly, and looked like we might concede at points; Bonucci played a few silly balls out from the back like he did in the old days. I know we didn't have all of our starters, and that some were out injured, and that we were definitely saving ourselves for the Champions Leauge, which is a good thing (I remember last year we would usually lose in Serie A whenever we had a Champions League game!), but like you said, a performance that bad isn't great for morale...it just didn't feel good seeing them play like that and struggle so much. Cuadrado...I know many have praised him, but I'm really not happy with him; he works hard and is quick and technically skilled, but he's so inconsistent and frustrating to watch when he slows down the tempo and backs himself into a corner to try and be selfish and do fancy tricks and stepovers against several opponents, and then ends up losing possession...his choices of passes is also poor sometimes...there was one chance in the second half when Dybala was wide open and could have had shot, but Cuadrado misplaced an easy ball and it was intercepted. and Lichsteiner's attacking and technical flaws really showed today, as well as Zaza's lack of a good first touch. Shame the winning streak is over, and Napoli might overtake us, but I'd rather go through against Bayern than break that record and be first at the moment, so hopefully we can do well on Tuesday! The league will be a long battle anyway I think. Best, Messirulez (talk) 22:29, 19 February 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Well said. Buffon made a good stop, but I thought he could have gotten a better handle on it as it didn't seem too far out of his grasp. Buffon has never really been the best at handling, and it probably seemed harder than it looked as it always does! Yeah you're right about them saving up their energy for Bayern and not all their starters played, but it was still a necessary 3 points. It will be a dog fight until the end for the league like you said, but I wouldn't be surprised if this draw that should have been an easy win would come back to haunt them... And yes, the streak is over... three games away from overtaking Inter's 17 win streak record... But I would rather go through against Bayern as well without a doubt! I know I've said I liked Cuardado's pace etc. but I really do see what you're talking about. He usually takes it into the corner and sometimes gets simple plays wrong... This isn't FIFA 16 where you can just run into a corner and skill your way through haha! (Side note: Roma played so well against Madrid, it was such a shame Ronaldo's goal came nearing the end and it took a deflection off of Florenzi (he always has that classic chop though)... really should have been a tighter score, but whenever Roma got into a decent scoring chance, they would always get the ball taken off them at the last second... very frustrating)

  • On another unrelated note: Do you actually live in Torino, or do you reside elsewhere in Italy? If so, do you mind me asking how you started to get into Juve, whether it be family or Juve just had a really good team at the time? I figure you're substantially older than me (I'm only in my early 20s) considering all the early references you make, which are really cool by the way, since I can research more about the interesting history of the club. (Sorry for possibly getting a little too personal, if you don't feel comfortable answering some of the questions don't worry about it, I just love hearing stories of how people started getting into things they are really passionate about!) I know there are a lot of Juve fans (and haters mind you) all around Italy, with a lot of fans coming from the south like Sicily. My nonno is from a town called Pachino pretty close to Catania. He's always been a Juve fan and really brought that spirit on to me. (He's more of a closet fan though, whereas for me, I love wearing Juve/Italy attire and putting flags on my car during the World Cup, etc because I love to show my colours, especially in a multicultural country like Canada where everyone shows their own colours which makes it all the more special!) It's hilarious when my nonno really gets into it, and you know he is when all he yells is "Questo scemo!" at the TV hahaha :) There are probably so many fans for Juve all around Italy since they have such a strong influence in the Italian national team, which is why I don't understand how someone can hate Juve, since it is usually almost the same as the national team (although it is getting lesser so now). Where I live, a suburb outside of Toronto close to Vaughan where the 300,000 population is almost 40% Italian, almost everyone is a Juve fan or Milan fan (lesser so Milan) (even though most are not even be from Torino or Milan) Maybe some sort of bandwagoning back in the day? Now it's all bandwagon for Real Madrid, Barca, etc. (as I've said in the past) but back then it was probably for Italian clubs. It really peeves me when for example, if an Italian were to support a team outside of their own country OVER their own (it's okay to like more than one team, don't get me wrong, but all I'm saying is, is that I wouldn't support an outside team over a team from my own country or ancestor country), whether it be club or country, which happens probably more where I'm from since my generation of second generation Italian Canadians (I speak from experience); most don't know the meaning of patriotism or your original homeland. Whereas if you were born in a country where you grow up in the actual country and develop a real sense for it, you are more likely to stay true to that country. I don't know how true that really is... That's what I believe anyway. It's sad that most Italian Canadians in my generation don't know how to speak Italian, as it's been lost through the last generation... I really wish they taught it to us at a young age, because at my age, it is much harder to pick up now. (I myself only understand the language in its simplest form). You, being from Italy, seem like you know English very well! When did you pick it up? Was it hard to learn? English is a really tough language if you're not born into it. I ask because maybe it will give me the motivation to learn Italian better some day! Anyway, sorry for rambling on or getting a little too personal, I just get weirdly excited about this stuff! :) Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 23:57, 19 February 2016 (UTC)
    • Update: Thankfully Milan drew Napoli so we could stay in first place! It would have been nice to use the game against Bologna to get the three points in order to get far ahead of Napoli! Can't ask for it all though I guess. I would be much happier to see Juve win against Bayern more than anything else! Forza i bianconeri! Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 22:59, 22 February 2016 (UTC)
Ugh, that was a stressful match, what a bad first half, and a negative start to the seocnd half conceding another and then wathching Marchisio go off, but then what a comeback! Bayern dominated, and the second leg in Münich will still be very difficult with Bayern getting two away goals, but at least we showed good mental strength and character to get back in the match, especially after a bad draw against Bologna at the weekend. Good thing Napoli and Milan tied though so we are still first! Yes, it was hard to tell, but yes, Destro's shot definitely dipped, so even though it was central it would have been hard to catch without fumbling it, so Buffon read it and thought it was safer to punch it out. Hmmm...now he doesn't always hold on to shots, but in his prime I thought his handling was really good...his technique to trap balls on the ground was always what made him stand out...maybe unlike Premier League keepers he didn't catch powerful shots as often, I suppose, opting to punch them instead, but he usually controlled his rebounds well; he said he mainly punched with the newer, lighter balls which spin more and are more unpredictable, but otherwise he rarely ever fumbled, especially on crosses and long shots on the ground. Although in his prime I thought that he didn't have any real weaknesses, the only thing he was sometimes criticised for was that he didn't come out enough for crosses, but he always felt that it was too risky if other forwards charged into the 6-yard box or if the ball spun awkwardly suddenly, especially as he is large, but not as large as other keepers, and now strikers are bigger. Having said that, though, he isn't one of those who comes out and misses them often; when he does come out he usually catches them or punches them well, although he does look a bit insecure or hesitant once in a while. The other thing was he was sometimes criticised for was his distribution, and for being one-footed, but then again, when he was younger, he had a more powerful goalkick (not quite like Neuer, Van der Saar, or the Premier League keepers during the long ball era), and a longer throw; also, having been a midfielder in his youth, he was quite intelligent and good on the ball or at controllong it with his head and chest, and would sometimes take it past defenders (not quite Neuer, but he was considered one of the best on the ball in the early 2000s, especially as many before him had been playing when backpasses were still allowed and weren't too good with their feet!). Although he is less mobile and clumsier now, his short passing, vision, organisation and confidence on the ball is still quite good, even though he isn't as good with his feet as the new generation of keepers who are coming in (especially the dutch, spanish, german and south american keepers), but with his leadership he certainly helps with Juve's new philosophy of playing it on the ground and out from the back, even though he does do some risky passes at times. Obviously I am biased when it comes to Gigi, though!
No I don't mind talking about that, although is there anyway to private message on wikipedia at all? I would just possibly prefer that everyone else didn't see everything I suppose! I'm not from Torino, but my family had lived there before I was born and supported Juve, so there was that, and also I really liked Baggio when I was young and he played for Juve; then Del Piero went on to take his place, who was also fantastic, and back then Juventus had a really good team, and under Lippi they became the best team in Italy and the world. Prior to that, in the 80s they had been the best team in the world for a while as well with Platini and the group of Italians that won the 1982 World Cup (even in the late 70s they were already one of the best when Trapattoni first came to the team). In the 90s Juve were also very popular in general around the world during this time, as well as Milan, who were definitely the best team in Italy and in the world under Sacchi and Capello, and also for a bit under Ancelotti as well between 2002-2008, arguably, whereas Inter struggled in the 90s for a while until Mancini arrived, aside from a few UEFA Cup titles. In the 90s there were definitely bandwagon fans, but then again you couldn't really watch matches as easily, so now with cable TV, internet, social medial etc. everyone has access to everything! Manchester United were also big as the Premier League had been marketed well all over the world even though Serie A was the top league, and then Real Madrid in the 2000s obviously became the most popular team in the Galacticos era. Speak soon, best regards! Messirulez (talk) 22:34, 23 February 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah, I see what you're saying about Buffon, just that from what I've seen in the recent past is that he makes really good saves and has excellent diving and positioning (as he shows on a regular basis even currently!), it just didn't seem to me where I could think of a specific time where he hung onto the ball that would've otherwise been a goal... You've seen him in his prime and early in his career so you can probably recall some instances. But as you said, in his prime there weren't many flaws about Buffon you could say anyhow! Yeah, I heard Buffon started out as a midfielder, but you know, when Buffon and Bonucci or Chiellini start kicking the ball around in their own area while the opposing team closes in, really frustrates me. It's only a matter of time till they make a stupid mistake. That being said, I would rather see keepers being keepers, if you know what I mean. In my opinion keepers are better off not doing all the fancy stuff Neuer does. There are times you need to charge out of a corner and punch, yes, however there are times when like you said about Buffon, where you need to stay in your net. Here's what I mean (not to single out Neuer as Buffon has had some mishaps like that time against Lecce I think haha) --> Sometimes you just have to let the defence take care of it. Again, I noticed that with his distribution like you said, he usually likes to opt for a short pass out for a goal kick rather than a long one, which sometimes makes more sense to me anyway since you can work from the back and create a play, rather than punting it down and possibly giving up possession. My nonno always says that it's always easier to yell orders at the TV sitting on your couch while they are the ones actually playing the game. We just can't help it though! There isn't any private messaging from what I could find, other than emailing (Wikipedia:Emailing users)... But who really follows what you and I say other than ourselves? I mean, I save and archive all the things we write because I think they are really cool and shows a nice history of the events of Juve basically from a fan's perspective as they happened in real time and sometimes I like to go back and see what we said about a particular moment haha. That being said, I don't really think anything can happen to a user on here by stating where their from and a bit about themselves. I've seen some user's user pages where they explicitly state their exact age and their full name! I wouldn't go as far as that because your name is really your identity. But saying I'm from Richmond Hill, Ontario and love Juventus because of my nonno from Sicily etc etc is basically as much I would give about myself as no one can really cause any harm with that info. Besides, by the pages a user edits or says etc, someone can basically guess things about that user, like you and Baggio or me and Buffon or whatever else etc etc. But hey, I know what you mean that this is still a public place where anyone can see anything, so I respect that. That was an interesting story! I wish I was old enough to have seen guys like him play in the early eras (which may not seem that early to you :) ) The earliest things I remember was probably the 2002 World Cup vaguely and didn't get a chance to see Serie A when it was really the best league in the world, but at least I got to see the 2006 World Cup when we had one of the best teams! We even should have won it in the past more times from what I've read. Ever since I started following Juve in the mid 2000s was when their popularity slowed down and didn't really show anything in Europe... So it would've been nice to see their golden years.

Can you believe with all the things you mentioned about making the sport easier to watch now a days, I couldn't even watch the full game!? They didn't play it on RAI or Mediaset (which they have in the past but I think they started putting that on a premium channel!), where I live they have the channel TSN (maybe you are familiar with it?) and they only played the Barca-Arsenal game! Then I tried to look up streaming online and knew of a Spanish cite called Rojadireta, but there are so many damn ads and when I finally found a decent page it froze! So yea... I was out of luck... Do you know any streaming website that is really good??? I am sick of not being able to watch these intense matches! But from what I did see and what I had to resort to just watching a play by play, Juve lacked focus in the first half. They played exactly how they shouldn't have by being behind the ball trying to defend too much. We were fortunate in the first 10 minutes that Muller couldn't get to the ball properly, and then before the half it was an unfortunate goal that went right back out in front. What a save it would've been if Buffon got there! I honestly thought after that second goal we were done. We didn't show anything that said we may still have a chance. Until a fortunate slip up by their defence that allowed a nice pass to Dybala and finished it off nicely! Then Sturaro and Morata coming off the bench to create a huge play within minutes of coming on, just amazing. We should've even gotten a penalty from Vidal's handball! The English referee didn't ref too well eh? We showed great mental strength as you said to come back 2-2. The 2 away goals Bayern scored will be tough since they count for more... Which I always thought to be a dumb rule in my opinion... Juve will still virtually have to win or get 2-2 again for extra time or a higher scoring tie as 0-0 and 1-1 will see Bayern through. Doubt it will be low scoring, but Beyern is usually tough when they play in their home stadium. Bayern are one of the favourites for this CL so it would be really nice to knock them out! If we play like we did in the ending of the second half, we can do it. But we can't take an hour to finally get going! They lacked some key defenders, but we were also without our best in my opinion, Chiellini, as well as the better LB Alex Sandro who we probably would've played over Evra. I think they should be back for the second leg. If we get our solid back 3 back we may have a chance winning 1-0 or 2-1, although not conceding at the Allienz will be hard. We should get through to the final of the Coppa Italia next week and then be ready to face Bayern again! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 01:14, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I agree that now Buffon doesn't hold on to the ball as well when diving anymore, but I suppose that does show his age; as we have said before, the fact that he is still arguably one the top 3 or top 5 keepers in the world (last year possibly even the best) at his age is impressive, regardless. He still doesn't usually mess up or spill crosses, unlike other keepers, and his ability to control his punches (like the one made on Vidal's shot), is still impressive, considering many keepers would have probably pushed it centrally and given up another good chance on the rebound. And yes, now as we usually play it out from the back, it's not like Buffon really needs to use deep kicks too often, except to clear it, and he ususally is still fairly accurate, although not as powerful as he would need to be at times. Neuer is a great, all-round keeper, not just with his feet, and it's nice that goalkeepers are improving with their feet as it adds a new dimension to the game and it doesn't put them under as much pressue when being pressed by opponents, but I agree that people get carried away with it, as sometimes their ability with their feet actually overshadows their goalkeeping ability, and essentially, a goalkeeper's main function is to keeep the goals out! The new generation certainly have made some blunders at time, but many of them are also quite young still. Buffon in his prime definitely rushed out as well as Neuer...he was extremely quick off his line and would come sliding out, which most people don't seem to remember, which I find a bit annoying, but he also had such a well rounded game I suppose that this aspect was often overlooked. As for the Bayern game, yes, I agree that the ref did poorly, but we also played so badly that I didn't really think about that as we didn't really deserve to be tying in the first half. Having said that, we should have had a penalty on a Vidal handball in the area, and Lewandowski fouled Bonucci when he charged through him on the counter-attack which led to Robben's goal. He was also in an offside position on Mueller's goal, but he didn't obstruct Buffon or block his visual, so that goal was completely valid, it's just a shame that Barzagli mis-hit the clearance, of all people, but then again we were fortunate that Mueller didn't control the ball well when he was wide-open early on! Very nice little pass by Mandzukic to Dybala (I'm glad to see him get his first goal in the Champions League), and a nice finish, as well; they did well on the second, too. It was a nice way to end the match, especially for our own pride, but as you said it's going to be very difficult in Münich now, but hopefully we will have some important players back and can somehow pull off a miracle. I hope we play well at least. It's just really frustrating that this draw could have been avoided by not losing that last group match, and it's not nice to see Man City win comfortably against an easier team after they struggled in most games in the group stage. Oh well! Best, Messirulez (talk) 22:37, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Yeah, I saw Man City win 3-1 not really having any trouble... As I said before, losing that match to Sevilla will change the Champions League as a whole! We really shot ourselves in the foot, as well as giving Man City a potentially easy ride, and of course we would get one of the toughest draws... Again, it really makes you wonder of what could have been... All we can do now is just hope they play with the same intensity they did in the last portion of the second half, because again, we cannot take an hour to wake up, especially walking into their home stadium! But we will likely have some of our key players back like you and I said, so hopefully they can contest the whole match and give Bayern a could run. Did you see what Breitner said about Juve ahead of the fixture? I really didn't like it. I mean, he compares Juve to teams like Gent and says Juve are no different than the rest (besides Real, Barca, and PSG he says). I could see being similar to Man City I guess, but I even think we are a better rounded team than Arsenal and Chelsea etc, but to compare Juve to Gent and to say we have no chance when all the media was saying is how close of a match it was going to be is ridiculous. After all Juve did last year by winning the double and making it to the CL final, that's what he says? No chance? Not the least bit true! Look what happens: We fall 2-0 and within the next 20 minutes, we didn't give up and fought back to 2-2, and we really looked like we could get a third to win the game after all that happened! Again, as we said, maybe the reporters exaggerated what he said a bit, but still... I just found that ignorant almost, especially from a great player like that! It would be great to see Juve beat out one of the favourites! Like you, even if they don't make it through, I just hope we give it a good effort and don't get crushed like 3-0 or something like that because it will really send a negative connotation on Juve in Europe again, which we tried so hard last year to put to an end! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 23:11, 24 February 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: Whoa, that was close! They thought it'd be smooth sailing? Boy were they wrong... Terrible game on the overall. Zaza had a few good chances, notably that post! He would've really wanted that one back... But what was Neto doing when he played that ball right through the middle and caused that careless first goal? Him and Rugani made a few mistakes. And Juve's possession was very, very low. And then with that last goal in the 82nd minute off a penalty that shouldn't have been. But then, how did Neto not save that?! He was right there! It literally went under his arm and body? I think Buffon would've stopped that easy. It was very odd... After all the events, my first thought was: FIXED!, but I mean if anyone would be fixing it, wouldn't it be Juve? haha all jokes aside, whatever happened, it was a really terrible match for Juve. 3-0 up from the first leg and it should be finished. You just need to play it cool and ride out the match. What a save Neto made though in the 89th minute to keep Juve alive! Inter gave us a real scare, but we sunk every penalty (Zaza was very lucky on his), but that's all that counts. Now the final with Milan in May, they need to play to full intensity, especially since Milan hasn't really been tested throughout their road to the final. For now, since the final is a ways away, they need to focus on the Serie a games at hand as well as the next leg of the CL of course! Regards, Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 00:17, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

Yes, I agree what a terrible game! Yet an exciting one, nonetheless, but not from a Juve fan's perspective! We finally showed some glimpses after the third goal, and I suppose we were unlucky not to score, but so were Inter several times before that, as they had the most chances by far. Yes, Neto made a couple of good saves after a few silly errors that Buffon probably would not have made (I was hoping he'd be used as if we win this year, he can lift the trophy); usually you don't blame keepers on penalties, but I agree, once he got there he shouldn't have let the ball bounce under his body like that. The media blamed Hernanes on the first goal, but as you said, it wasn't entirely his fault as it was a bad pass by Neto with the striker charging in on him, and in my opinion it was a rather physical challenge, and a foul could have been called. I guess the starting XI wasn't playing, but there were still quite a few starters...we just really underestimated them. Inter played really well and kept the ball; they looked like Bayern at times and some of their players who aren't particularly spectacular looked like superstars...so we better not play like this in Münich, or it will be an embarrassing match! The penalty was a bit harsh but at the same time Rugani should have been more careful, and he shouldn't have been beaten there, but I guess his one defect as a defender is that he isn't the quickest player, and I guess he is still young and will gain experience on how to defend those situations; it is a matter of seconds sometimes if you lose your concetration for just a moment, then all of a sudden you're beaten with a burst of acceleration. Still, usually he is known for not really giving away fouls like that. Even the second goal should have been avoided; poor marking. At least we went through to the final, which is nice, although penalties are always a gamble and we probably didn't deserve to go through. I can't believe Barzagli went first, but he put his away! Inter's keeper was going too early, although, in fairness you really do have to guess at times, and he played quite well overall. Hopefully we can beat Milan in the final as we have had a tougher draw by fair, and I really hope we can work a miracle against Bayern and get a good quarter-final draw. Good result at the weekend to get a win against Inter, especially as Napoli tied; a lucky win in the end as Inter had some good chances, but we pulled through. I honestly thought we received a dubious penalty, but we did dominate most of the match. Buffon made some very good saves at the end, on the one on one, pushing out a good rebound on the free-kick, and then holding that powerful strike on the rebound; I'm glad he beat his previous record of minutes without conceding a goal, and I hope he can keep a clean sheet against Atalanta as well to keep it going; then he would be in third place for the all time unbeaten streaks, where he at least deserves to be in my opinion! And it would be nice if he could overtake Zoff and Rossi after that, although one match at a time, I suppose, as it is easier said than done! Best, Messirulez (talk) 14:37, 3 March 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: MY OH MY! What can I say? Just unbelievable... 2-0 up and what happened? Very, very tough to swallow. So close yet so far, so close I could taste it! We were fortunate with that first goal, but hey we'll take it. That second goal, the build up to the goal, just amazing, cool calm finish. Why was Morata's goal called offside? I mean, clearly he is onside and with no penalty in the last game, we were robbed! After we let them score in the 70 something minute, all the momentum shifted. We couldn't have let them score. I knew that would be the death of them. It was only a matter of time until they scored the equalizer... But 90+1??? That was the nail in the coffin... I knew that it wouldn't be going to penalties when extra time started. Just as the first leg Bayern played well for 60 minutes, then gave it up, we did that this leg. I guess a game is made out of 90 minutes, which we didn't execute fully on. This isn't the first time. The equalizing goal they scored in the last couple minutes was just awful. Excellent quick passing play Bayern maneuvered, but the way the goal came about, just awful. I think Pogba left it for Evra, but he didn't think so and they just let it go so wastefully! You can't let stuff like that happen right outside the box in the dying minutes! You just can't! Again, very hard to swallow, especially at such a close time to the final whistle, and both off of headers at that! It would have been so nice to see Juve go through and knock them out... I would be pretty mad if Bayern went on to win it. Meanwhile we have teams like Wolfsberg that are through... What a shame. Having Chiellini, Dybala, and Marchisio injured was a big blow, but would have been even better if we went through with all those injuries! And Man City are through after playing rather poorly to scrape through past Kiev. I say again, it ALL stems back to that Sevilla game. The whole competition would be different if Juve won that game. That one little thing, that one little mistake can cause a world of difference, and look what happens... We also have the officiating to blame for some God awful calls, but mostly, we have ourselves to blame... You simply cannot retreat like that and waste chances etc even two goals up! Two goals are NOT enough to win you a game, which they had to learn the hard way today unfortunately! What a feat it would have been to go on. Very, very upsetting. Too bad we won't be able to reach the finals this year, it would have been especially nice since the final is in Italy. The only thing to look forward to is Buffon's upcoming record for most minutes goals not conceded, just four minutes away! Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 01:48, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

  • I'm absolutely gutted; for a while I thought we were going to do, then it ended up being the complete opposite of the first leg in the end, and by then it was obvious we had given up in extra time and that they were determined to go through. I'm glad we fought and impressed for the first 70 minutes, but it was still horrible to go out like that, and concede with two mintues of stoppage time left; what were Evra and Pogba thinking there when a simple clearance would have sufficed, and Bonucci on both goals looked like his old error-prone self, and wasn't paying attention to the opponents in the area around him. Shame we wasted our chances and that the ref disallowed a perfectly good goal which would have changed the game, but I don't want to go on about the ref even though the decision definitely affected the game, as it was our fault we went out in the end instead of closing off the match earlier. This completely ruins our chances now of overtaking England in the UEFA coefficient, which is annoying considering Man City's easy draw, even though we defeated them twice and they were extremely lucky to win 2-3 of their group matches, and we were unlucky not to draw the last match against Sevilla and win against Borussia in Torino. I just hope Italy can have a decent Euro now, although with the players we have upfront at the moment things aren't looking too good. I almost don't even care about the Serie A title anymore, as Juve have basically been unrivaled in Italy for the past four years, and none of the other teams are capable of competing internationally; hopefully Lazio can progress in the Europa League, as much as I dislike the club and their fans. I really hope we can somehow do it next year if we can get a few good players, although the team is aging; I really want to see Juve win the Champions League soon and I want to see Serie A on top again. Once again its our own fault that Serie A fell apart, as no one invested in the league's future when the Italian teams were on top; now at least several teams are trying to remediate that by buiding their own stadium, like Roma, Milan, Inter, and Udinese, and possibly others... It's also just so annoying to go out so early this year after reaching the final last year, and as the final was in Milan this year; and it's frustrating that the Italian teams have always gotten such difficult draws early on. Messirulez (talk) 14:01, 17 March 2016 (UTC)

@Messirulez: You described that perfectly, gutted, just gutted. Terrible to go out like that like you said. I kept replaying the part where Pogba and Evra got it so horribly wrong dozens of times just in awe. Yes, I, we really believed. And, yeah, that sucks about the coefficient since we played better than Man City throughout hands down. I feel you in the sense that it feels like nothing really matters anymore, about the Serie A and what not. Champions League is just so much more exciting, it's like a World Cup for clubs! Very unlucky to get this match up, but that's the luck of the draw I guess. I too really hope we can win soon, for Buffon's sake especially as we have said in the past; such a shame he didn't win it early on in 2003, what a hash Juve made of those penalties! Too bad Lazio wouldn't move on, no idea how they lost 3-0 at home. My nonno on my mothers side was originally from Lazio, however he wasn't into soccer much, but I still supported them here and there; no where near the support I give to Juve. Yes, the Lazio fans have been known to be racist, which is very unsportsmanlike like, however, a few rotten apples ruin the bunch. Whenever there is a Serie A team in Europe, no matter who they are, they represent Italy at that time. Did you see the next round CL draws? Beyern-Benfica and PSG-Man City... PSG should surely advance, it would be nice to see them win it actually, for Verratti and Sirigu and a new winner for a change. I really hope Bayern can progress this round, as they should, since if Benfica were to edge them out, it would look very embarrassing on Juve's part; but I really hope they don't win the whole thing because that would be rather annoying to know we could have knocked them out! And yes, hopefully Italy can do well in Europe, although we are in one of the hardest groups... As you said, we usually are prone to getting tough draws at the international and club level in the past few years. But what do you make of the news that Conte will step down, almost surely to Chelsea, after the Euro? Personally, I don't think they should have announced it so early... It may have an effect on the morale of the team. I don't know, it just seems odd. Vaselineeeeeeee (talk) 13:57, 18 March 2016 (UTC)

  • Yes. I mean, I probably would have been more upset if we had lost 4–2 in regulation time with Bayern being ahead for the entire match, and I'm glad we went out with our heads held high at least, but the fact that we were through and we just gave the result away, and that a few decisions didn't go away is so frustrating as we were so wasteful as always. We've won a lot in Serie A now...in 2012 it was different because we were the underdogs and we hadn't won in a while and were rebuilding...now we are the top club in Italy hands down, and it's normal that our true vale is judged based on our results in Europe. I hope PSG and Bayern go through, although I wish Sirigu were playing instead of Trapp (why...Sirigu had a bit of a rough patch but he's a better keeper and has been praised for his saves by the French media repeatedly...Trapp is talented though, but has made some mistakes himself). Blanc has made some ridiculous decisions, even leaving Verratti out at times (and without him you notice the difference in midfield); I don't think he's that good a manager, he just has a really good team (I really think Maxwell is one of the most underrated players in the world, along with Barzagli), although he was a great defender in his time though. Yeah, I can't beleive Lazio went out when it seemed to be a comfortable return leg...that makes things even worse; at least only Liverpool went through to the quarters. Unfortuantely almost every club in Italy has problems with their fans, and until something is done about it, it won't get better, but in Europe there have been several problems with the Lazio ultras, who are known for their extremist right-wing views; we have security cameras all over the stadium now, so I don't see why they can't just be identified and banned from going to the games! It would make everything so much better! The Euros will be tough, but I really hope we don't embarrass ourselves like in the last World Cup...now expectations are very low again at least. I don't like how Conte announced he would be leaving, although I don't think it should affect the team too badly if he handles it correctly...I think we have some good potential candidates for the job who might even be more experienced in international competitions and superior to him with a good squad (despite his Europa League semi-final in 2014 with Juve, which was ultimately a disappointment; I suppose we did beat Chelsea in the Champions League with him, and we didn't do too badly against Real Madrid, and probably would have ended up with a draw and win with some better refereeing; the main problem was not scoring after dominating, and then conceding after giving up a single chance). I'm actually quite surprised Chelsea have picked Conte up; he's a good manager, but he doesn't have much experience in Europe yet, so I'm worried he could be a flop; when Mourinho came he had won the UEFA Cup and the Champions League. Then again, with a good team behind him, with a strong financial base, Conte could surprise everyone and do really well, so we will have to wait and see, I suppose. I thought Juve hiring Allegri was a terrible decision, but under him I think we have demonstrated that we can even challenge some top teams (Bayern, Real, Manchester City, Borussia Dortmund, Sevilla, Atletico Madrid...we didn't even do too poorly against Barca compared to other sides). Best, Messirulez (talk) 15:55, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
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