User talk:GoDot

Welcome!

Hello, GoDot, and welcome to Wikipedia! Thank you for your contributions. I hope you like the place and decide to stay. Here are a few good links for newcomers:

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I hope you enjoy editing here and being a Wikipedian! Please sign your name on talk pages using four tildes (~~~~); this will automatically produce your name and the date. If you need help, check out Wikipedia:Questions, ask me on my talk page, or place {{helpme}} on your talk page and someone will show up shortly to answer your questions. Again, welcome!  --Lukobe 18:05, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Posts

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Fixing typos introducing typos

Hi there,
You changed my
Ravenna Park is located in the neighborhood's southwest corner, stretching from 15th to 25th Avenues N.E. Ravenna Creek runs through the park.
to
Ravenna Park is located in the neighborhood's southwest corner, stretching from 15th to 25th Avenues NE, Ravenna Creek runs through the park.
...creating a run-on in the process. That last comma should be a period, no? --Lukobe 18:16, 23 April 2006 (UTC)

Should be, thank you --GoDot 02:49, 24 May 2006

Moved your reply on my talk page to Talk:Seattle, Washington

FYI --Lukobe 21:18, 25 April 2006 (UTC)

Very useful, thank you --GoDot 02:49, 24 May 2006

Street signs in Seattle

You can't completely go by what the actual street signs say, of course. For numbered streets higher than 9, they appear to be cardinal instead of ordinal, so read "34 AVE E" and the like (but "9th AVE"). But nobody would say the real name of the street is "Thirty-four avenue east." --Lukobe 19:59, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Yes, that's true. Further, Downtown streets are relatively unique in the city in having no compass designation, and there is something of a national cultural custom that downtown streets and avenues are also acceptable written out as such as "Ninth Avenue". Almost every burg in the U.S. has a "First and Main".
Although with cardinals and ordinals, numbers and compass directions are discrete. The aspect for accuracy initally w[a]s that [o]f compass directions; then of proper abbreviatios, common and proper nouns. --GoDot 02:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC) --04:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

"ws that af"? Sorry, don't understand. --Lukobe 05:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

ah, "was that of." Was that deliberate or shorthand? I find it hard to understand your deliberate abbreviations sometimes. --Lukobe 05:53, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Neither, sorry, thank you. In light of your editing, it appears I drop letters, "iewing" for "viewing", "ws" for "was" ("af" for "of" was just mis-reading mis-typed adjacent keys). I'll watch more closely. I only intend common on-line acronyms occasionally in posting to talk pages, and otherwise I intend correct English. --GoDot 04:34, 26 May 2006 (UTC)

Burke-Gilman Trail

Could you take a quick look at my comments on Talk:Burke-Gilman_Trail? --Lukobe 17:33, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

At Talk:Northgate, Seattle, Washington and Talk:Seattle, Washington too, please. --Lukobe 06:40, 16 May 2006 (UTC)

Thank you --GoDot 02:49, 24 May 2006

Consensus gathering

Might want to post some of these issues to the talk page for the main Seattle article. Too few people look at these neighborhood articles to make those talk pages anything more than a dialogue between us two. Just a thought. --Lukobe 06:25, 23 May 2006 (UTC)

Much of our dialogue is relevant to neighborhoods articles in general.

Talk:Seattle is getting so big there's a WP note, "This page is 105 kilobytes long. This may be longer than is preferable; see article size." (Of course for posting, Editing of individual sections is actually used.)
Wikipedia:Article size.
The next question is not so much How to break up a page, but how to go about first presenting to the Talk:Seattle Wikipedians. So that is probably needed beforehand. Cf. This page is getting very big. --GoDot 02:49, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

The talk page needs archiving, that's what... --Lukobe 05:52, 24 May 2006 (UTC)

Talk:Seattle

How odd.. I literally have no idea what's going on there.. I reverted the edit and all seems back to normal. Thanks for letting me know. [--Bobblehead 01:28, 13 June 2006 (UTC)]

thanks for fleshing out the Daylighting article!

Lukobe 17:59, 13 June 2006 (UTC)

talk pages and U Village

Hi there! Thanks for your post on my talk page....

As Far As I Know (AFAIK), I'm using grammatical sentences and only the most common acronyms.

The acronyms are indeed mostly common, but most of us aren't used to navigating strings of them :) Your sentences are mostly grammatical, though sometimes they seem a bit telegraphic, leaving out the odd article here and there. (This happens in the articles themselves, too.) I do appreciate their compact nature but they do take a bit of deciphering... --Lukobe 05:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

However, this tangent loses the thread: What is the rest of "leave such information out altogether"?

You point out that it is said that verifiability beats truth. I'm saying that if what is verifiable doesn't match what is true, I'd sooner leave out both than include verifiable untruth. --Lukobe 05:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

PS: I have as yet found nothing showing U-VIllage Seattle is anything but about uvillage.com. Maybe among the maps at Seattle Department of Planning of Development (DPD), but apart from schlepping downtown to the Department or the main library, I haven't yet found anything other than corroboration.

Check out: http://www.lorig.com/p_collegiate.htm ...have made Nordheim Court a unique addition to the University Village neighborhood.

http://www.ravennagardens.com/roots.html The first Ravenna Gardens opened in Seattle's University Village neighborhood in early 1997.

That's just Googling for "University Village neighborhood."

--Lukobe 05:49, 28 June 2006 (UTC)

Please watch for dropped articles & other odd grammatical constructions

pease watch for dropped articles in your contributions, and other odd grammatical constructions

Examples:

• "and typical small post-glacial Green Lake"

The phrase describes a general example rather than listing in too much detail.

My concern was more with the dropped "the" before "typical."

Previously noted (though implicitly) 21:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC), thanks for being explicitly clear. This applies to the rest of this list also ; )
PS: How to say most concisely? "and typical small post-glacial lakes such as Green Lake" --? --05:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

• "This is similar to such as restoration efforts for tributaries of the Everglades and manatees in Florida, often close to urban or dense recreation areas."

The sentence mirrors "life of salmon and a living stream", so better phrasing has been devised.

Thanks. Here, my concern was "similar to such as."

• "Completion celebration is scheduled for spring, 2007."
• "IPA prounciations are conventionally enclosed in square brackets to signify."

It's in a footnote. The object of the subordinate clause is implicit and unambiguous. Articles on Wikipedia vary from elementary to graduate reading level, so jr. or sr. level high school should not be out of place.

Here, my concerns were the lack of "a" before "completion", and lack of an object following "signify."

In a footnote, how much is required for clarity? Is it okay for a footnote to turn into such a completely explicit paragraph? --05:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Footnotes should be written in Standard English. --Lukobe 06:39, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. I rather thought so. The key, it seems, is being particularly concise. --GoDot 04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

• "Rainier Beach is adjacent to or includes the Rainier Valley neighborhood of Dunlap (Othello), so adjacent to Hillman City and Seward Park neighborhoods on the north, Lake Washington on the east, and South Beacon Hill neigborhood on the west."

This was a draft of the merge of pre-existing text, though at greater than elemenary school reading level. The article is a work in progress. Digging up what and at least the where of such as Hillman City and York might clarify. Hillman City and York were former towns, so they if there were defining aspects the info could be helpful. Having been a town strongly suggests savvy activist citizens groups, which have notably characterized other neighborhoods.

Here, my concern was "so adjacent." Looks like a copula's missing there.

• "Rainier Beach continues on the north, the Skyway and Bryn Mawr neighborhoods of unincorporated King County are on the south and east, respectively."

Merge of pre-existing : )` This consolidated neigborhood article could be fleshed out a little better with some cultcha: library branch (easy), any notable architecture, civic accomplishments, outstanding social places. See Talk:Seattle neighborhoods.

The initial punctuation could be a semicolon. As far as I know, English grammar and punctuation rules are not cast in stone, the rules distinguishing comma and semicolon usage are at a level tending toward a little esoteric.

Perhaps, but in standard written English, I believe a semicolon or a period is called for.

etc.

--Lukobe 17:59, 21 July 2006 (UTC)

'Will read through slowly just before clicking the "Save" button : )` Above have been noted, revised for the next round of edits, thanks. I think I've captured most of the "etc." too. --GoDot 14:57, 22 July 2006 (UTC) --05:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks :) --Lukobe 21:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

Was that you making the recent anonymous edits to Seattle neighborhoods? "Which is in turn based on such as a neighborhood map" sounds like your writing. Also, unrelated to this, but related to something else we've discussed, please see Talk:Duwamish (tribe)#Dkhw'Duw'Absh... --Lukobe 06:49, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

(0) 'Out of time for now, so this note is to keep you apprised.

(1) Anon: WP logged me out. Reverted: That draft preview was not s'posed to be posted.

Understood. --Lukobe 17:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

(2) Duwamish (tribe) is at the top of my list for next session. I'm past out of time for now.

(2.1) Q: [square root]? [schwa]? A: I've not been able to find the "&__;" codes to generate them from plain text. Perhaps another editor person might tell where to look? The characters are per cited source Bates, Hess, & Hilbert.

Those are all available, at least on my setup, underneath the "Save page" button. There are links to insert symbols, characters, IPA, Cyrillic, and Greek. IPA: t? d? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  ? ? ? ? ?  ? ? ? ?  ? ? ? ?  ? ? ? ? ? ? ?  ? ? ?  ? ? ? ? ?  ? ? ? ? ?  ? ? ?  ? ? ?  ? ? ?  ? ?  ? ? ? ? ? ?  ? ? ? ? ^(h) ^(w) ^(j) ? ? ^(n) ^(l)  ? ? ? ? ? • I wonder if it has something to do with my preferences settings. --Lukobe 17:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

Nope, I logged out, edited a page, and the insert-characters box was still there...so it couldn't be my preferences, I don't think. Look for it next time you're editing--it should be there for you. --Lukobe 17:27, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

[Special characters do not display here following external editor. --GoDot 04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)]

"&__;" codes for special chars

On every edit with special characters, using the menu on each special character is just way too fiddly for me. I prefer editing full-screen, off-line, for response speed. I'm looking for the typing codes to generate characters from plain text, such as [''...w&# 660;ab&# 353;''] for [...wʔabš]. [Found and inserted. --04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)]

I've not figured out how to set up an off-line viewer for Wiki markup. "MediaWiki 1.5 is required", "There is a reference implementation for the helper application called "ee.pl" (available here, see README for usage and INSTALL for setup instructions). It is written in Perl and may be difficult to set up."

--[Help:External editors] Criminy. I don't wanna hafta learn Perl just to do what a text editor could handle.

Special:Preferences allows "external editor".

All I need are a few "&__;" codes, and editing can be done quickly and simply in plain text, without needing cumbersome software.

(2.2) Next session, I'll fill in any missing citations and make recommended corrections as needed per (reliable) sources.

Thanks --Lukobe 17:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

(3) What's a good, concise way to state "A based on B which is based on C, D, E, ..."? (That is, without elaborating the entire sequence. A relies on B but A does not entirely assess C, D, E, ... directly, though they are spot-checked. A is also based on X, Y, Z.) --GoDot 09:09, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

If you're asking how better to phrase "which is in turn based on such as..." I would suggest "which is in turn based on, for example..." ... it's the "such as" that I think is ungrammatical where you have it. --Lukobe 17:22, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

What IPA symbol is "square root" supposed to represent anyway? I have a master's in linguistics and am somewhat stumped nevertheless. Also, I see you've now decided to have both the English and Native form of Native names side-by-side at every mention in the Duwamish and related articles, and enclosed the Native forms in brackets. I think this causes clutter. The Native forms only need to appear once, at first mention. Is that what you are working towards, or should I go in to the articles myself? (There are other fixes that I will make as necessary.) --Lukobe 06:53, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

1. IPA symbol: See footnote, last line of item (1). Lushootseed is a non-Romance language, word structure is non-Romance. Dictionary alphabetization is by root.

"The characters are per cited source Bates, Hess, & Hilbert."

2. Names

Accuracy is a goal. "Duwamish" is used to refer to Duwamish. The Native (Lushootseed) terms refer to historical context, when those terms were current. Rome conquered Gaul. Rome did not conquer France. Consequently, the modern English is provided for convenience. The Duwamish Tribe of today came into existence in response to the consequences of contact, as summarized in the article.

Your example is not relevant. What was Gaul is not equivalent to what today is France. The two names for Duwamish are just that--two names in two different languages for the same entity. --Lukobe 06:42, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

Dkh^w'Duw'Absh and Xacuabš are the best representations for from thousands of years past up to sometime in the 1850s. "Duwamish" is sometime after 1855, in which sense the above analogy has some relevance (The Sammamish of today were similarly related to but distinct from the Dkh^w'Duw'Absh, as were the Xacuabš). The sets of names also serve well to demarcate other related changes. --04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

Data is per citations, form and style is further per IPA, described in the article. See footnote, particularly items (1.1) and (2).

3. Appear

"With the ever-increasing European contact, the hah-choo-AHBSH ([Xacuabš]) and doo-AHBSH [Dkh^w'Duw'Absh] or Dkhw'Duw'Absh) became known today as the people represented by the Duwamish Tribe."

[...]

"commitments to the Duwamish and surrounding tribes."

"The Duwamish signatories to"

"since the Duwamish Indians have no land,"

"support of federal recognition of the Duwamish tribe. "

"Duwamish Tribe federal recognition chances"

"The Duwamish Tribe won federal recognition in"

The article is particularly about Native Americans, it's not particularly about Anglos or "Bostons".

PS: As I recall, though I'm not sure, Lake John was just a paragraph months ago when I started; the page has expanded greatly. Did they get inspiration (and leads) from Wikipedia? (I'd also e-mailed the office and an executive.) The photo is from a UW collection, not from MoHI (did they find it on Wikipedia?), the villages text reads like Dailey, "through the resource-rich Union Bay marsh."

--GoDot 05:44, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

References

We still have no citation for which end of Shelby St. --GoDot 05:44, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I think you are taking this notion that every single word in this encyclopedia must have a citation way too seriously. By the letter of the "law" you are probably right and I am probably wrong, but I think there needs to be some moderation. --Lukobe 06:58, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

My apologies. I let brevity overtake clarity. As I understand, Wikipedia recommends only a simple Bibliography for non-controversial topics, and where there is contention or there are multiple versions, then there references are recommended.

My intent there is providing as much clarity as can be had about ambiguous versions. For example, much history is incomplete if not contradictory, and local lore is no exception. For example, so far, as research continues, "Chief Seattle" becomes ever more enigmatic.

The particular nuance is that so far, we just don't have definitive clarity. For the reader, noting that multiple versions exist can be helpful foreknowledge in further research. In fairness, the fact that ambiguity exists shoud be revealed.

Where we have good sources with different versions, or with ambiguity, it's my understanding that that should be told: give both sides of the story (or the street : ) In this case, I've not yet seen any info telling cleary. As I understand, the generally accepted method is to present available data and see what patterns emerge, then if any judgements are made, they are based upon evidence. The goal is one of fairness to readers: If our sources are clear and in accord, we say so; if not, we say so.

This Cheshiahud person is such a good metaphor for the Duwamish: like Chief Seattle, there are different versions, and few clear answers to questions. That can add intrigue and interest to their stories. There can be something romantic about ghosts, only half-remembered, sailing great canoes on the misty lake waters of Portage or Salmon bays, or a couple sitting side by side, "lookin' out their back door" [approximately Creedence Clearwater]. "These salmon and critters here are my brothers and my cousins. I care about them that much. And our ancestors are still here. They see what's going on, and they hold you responsible" [Rasmussen]. Take a walk around south Portage Bay or Union Bay when there is mist before dawn, or a quiet canoeing on a moonlit night.

--GoDot 14:47, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

I do understand what you mean. At the same time, is Wikipedia the place for intrigue and romance? --Lukobe 16:58, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Perhaps remotely so for pan-dimensional conducive electrons, but for people I think the bays could be more congenial : )

I'd like to see what could be done with biography, of Cheshiahud or any one else from the early extensive contact through post-treaty era (1845-1890), to give personal dimension. That might be wider than just Seattle: maybe Puget Sound country.

history of seattle edits

please see Talk:History_of_Seattle#Recent_edits_by_GoDot --Lukobe 02:18, 31 July 2006 (UTC)

Duwamish (tribe)

Hello, I have no clue how to edit Wikipedia, but I was pleasantly surprised to be reading the articles on the Duwamish tribe and Cheshiahud, and to find sentences that sounded amazingly like my own words (credited with a citation, of course). Now there is a greater burden to get my facts correct if people are quoting me, and since I am currently trying to track down the village list from the Duwamish et al. vs the United States 1927 court case to find out whether there was a Duwamish village south of Seward Park on Brighton Beach or north at Wetmore slough or neither, I was wondering if there is someone (like you perhaps) who does edit Wikipedia who would be interested in this information if I manage to get it. I might also have a bit more information on Cheshiahud, I can check my files.

In the Duwamish article, Chilohleet'sa (Madelline), the wife of Hwelchtid Salmon Bay Charlie, sounds a lot like Lake John Cheshiahud's second wife Tleboletsa (Madeline). I suspect that these two people are the same woman. I don't know what your source for the name of Hwelchtid's wife is, so I can't offer any speculation on how the confusion (if it is one) might have arisen.

Nice job on both articles!

Paul Talbert Tuisto 09:01, 25 July 2006 (UTC)

No working user or talk page found for Tuisto [1], so this here. At nearly the same time as your post, I was doing editing that answers some of your questions. Have a look at Duwamish (tribe) (People and History), Cheshiahud, and the image at Seattle before the city. See also Talk:Cheshiahud#Historical ambiguities.

Regarding Chilohleet'sa (Madelline) and Tleboletsa (Madeline), I suspect that, early Shirly Temple style, Whites called too many Native individuals John, Tom, or Madeline, respectively, rather than dealing with understanding language and culture. Besides, the time frames for Chilohleet'sa and Tleboletsa seem to overlap so much that the two more likely knew of each other. See also the catalog data for the images at Wikipedia and the source collections.

Regarding locations, as you may know, Dailey and Buerge are very good (see the footnotes and Bibliographhies, particularly Seattle before the city#Bibliography). Buerge is teaching at a local college or high school. Per state law and ethical considerations, actual locations are confidential for protection. A pow-wow is coming up very soon, this year at Sand Point Magnuson Park.

There are two local pow-wow, usually every summer, late July--early August. One is at Daybreak Star, Discovery Park, "Bostons" paticularly welcome. There's another that has varying locations year to year that is mostly for Natives, but Anglos can be welcome, particulraly if they realize they are guests at an (extensive) extended-family affair. The latter event is found by word of mouth. --GoDot 09:08, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

If you have any further leads on individuals, please let me know. --GoDot 13:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

There is a talk page: User_talk:Tuisto --Lukobe 17:59, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

copyvio?

Hi GoDot,

I found this passage at http://www.sewardpark.org/sewardpark/history.html: Cheshiahud became a friend of David Denny and was sometimes known as Denny John. He had two wives; first Sbeilsdot or Lucy Annie and then Tleboletsa or Madeline. He appears to have lived at sa'tsakaL, or Mercer Slough, in the 1870s, where his daughter Jennie Davis grew up. He lived on land on the southwest lakeshore near at SExt3i'tc1b (Bryn Mawr) until about 1880, when he sold it and bought land from David Denny at the foot of Shelby Street on Portage Bay. Sbeilsdot died about 1885, but Cheshiahud lived formany years on Portage Bay with Tleboletsa. His final years were spent at the Port Madison Reservation. In 1927, his daughter Jennie Davis provided a list of the villages along Lake Washington that is a primary source of current knowledge of the village locations.

I found an almost identical passage at Cheshiahud, put there by you: After the war (such as it was-see Duwamish (tribe) #History), Cheshiahud became a friend of David Denny and was sometimes known as Denny John. He had two wives: Sbeilsdot or Lucy Annie, and then Tleboletsa or Madeline. He appears to have lived at sa'tsakaL (what is now Mercer Slough of Kelsey Creek, southwest Bellevue) in the 1870s, where his daughter Jennie Davis (Janey Davis) grew up. He lived on land on the southwest lakeshore near or at [SExt3i'tc1b] (Bryn Mawr) until about 1880, when he sold it and bought land from David Denny at the foot of Shelby Street on Portage Bay. Sbeilsdot died about 1885, but Cheshiahud lived for many years on Portage Bay with Tleboletsa. His final years were spent at the Port Madison Reservation. In 1927, his daughter Jennie (Janey) provided a list of the villages along Lake Washington that is a primary source of current knowledge of the village locations.[6]

You do cite the page where it came from, but did you have permission to use the words verbatim in Wikipedia? --Lukobe 17:03, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

Thank you. Please see "Duwamish (tribe)", above. I usually read a source, copy & paste passages into a "Resources" file, and write the article text more or less from memory or notes.

(1) Apparently I pasted into the wrong file.

(2) You posted the correct link for the author.

The author didn't say anything pointed about it, however, best manners would probably be: I rewrote the section (hastily), and posted an explanation with links, on Talbert's User_talk:Tuisto page for his explicit critique.

(3) 'Asked if source(s) are known for which end of Shelby street : )`

(4) 'Sent an e-mail to Paul at the contact address for sewardpark.org. --04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

--GoDot 09:08, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

Downtown

There are a few of these scattered among "Seattle neighborhoods" articles. I've not heard about any sqwaks. What is the procedure?

Downtown Seattle

"Image from the Seattle City Clerk's Neighborhood Map Atlas. Retrieved November 25th, 2004. The neighborhood maps provided by the Clerk's office are indeed in the public domain, as I inquired of the office and received the response: 'These maps are indeed in the public domain.'" [No "--" tag]

"Note: This tag is obsolete! Please use instead: [...]"

Map of Downtown Seattle I couldn't find anything specific, but most all the parent pages say "Copyright", usually in tiny size at the botom of a page.

"Copyright © 1995-2005 City of Seattle" --[Home page]

Do we need written release? AFAIK only some federal government documents are freely public domain, per "{{PD-USGov}} (for work by the U.S. government)"

No reply so far to query sent Thursday 03 August to clerk@seattle.gov

"This work is in the public domain because it is a work of the United States federal Government.
This applies worldwide. See Copyright.
Note: This does not apply to works of U.S. state or local governments."
[Template:PD-USGov]

--GoDot 09:08, 8 August 2006 (UTC)

WP:PROD

Re. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jolly Roger Restaurant (AFD)

Sorry--it's Wikipedia:Proposed_deletion --Lukobe 20:59, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

[Re. ==Clarification re. Template:Db-reason and WP:PROD== continuing from User talk:Lukobe]

So what can best be done at this point? Move to WP:PROD? Nothing firm on it at RfD so far.

I may have gotten disoriented exploring and figuring out the steps for Template:Db-reason (RfD) and Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion, didn't find Wikipedia:Proposed deletion

For Talk:AFD (section) page: "This was excised out of context from the complete article at Lake City, Seattle, Washington#Storied past, by other than the author, without consideration of Wikipedia:Manual of Style."

The topic is sufficient within the context of Lake City, 'nuff said. There's too much else at Wikipedia and elsewhere that's time better spent; I'd rather not leave litter about.

--GoDot 05:23, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I think it's too late at this point to Prod the article, actually...so my comment really should have been "Delete but next time an article like this should be prod'ed"...in fact I will go over there right now and add my comments. --Lukobe 18:20, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

RE: Jolly Roger

Dear sir
Re. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Jolly Roger Restaurant, I am seeking consensus. Toward meeting your interests, the topic already exists in improved and complete form, per Wikipedia standards, in context, at Lake City, Seattle, Washington#Storied past. The piece was chopped out by a newbie. The damage was soon repaired, and I've been trying to clean up this uprooted duplicate leftover. For Wikipedia quality, I would prefer disposing of this odd snippet, rather than leaving a scrap lying about. I am the original researcher and author of the topic in the article, post [2]. The Jolly Roger story is an integral part of the character of Lake City, but it is otherwise not particularly encyclopedic.

So toward consenus, would you change your vote to delete? Thank you for your consideration. --GoDot 15:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for the notification, i've changed my vote to delete —Minun ^Spiderman 15:08, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Thanks for being so polite. Changed my vote to Delete. Cheers. --Ageo020 06:05, 29 July 2006 (UTC)

Sorry for not responding earlier, GoDot. The only reason I haven't chipped in again with the Jolly Roger AfD is that you really don't need all that many folk to change their votes. AfD is (supposed to be) a discussion, not a vote, and I am confident that if your logic was as clear as you indicated in your message, my reappearance to change my vote would be inconsequential. David L Rattigan 10:06, 4 August 2006 (UTC)

Way to go, GoDot!

Nice note. Thanks! Williamborg 00:43, 29 July 2006 (UTC) Williamborg talk

Cite request

Just a request when you're adding cites with {{cite}}, think you could delete the lines that don't actually have an entry? This update you made has more lines without anything after the equal sign there are with entries. Just a personal preference on my part 'cause I think it looks a bit sloppy, so feel free to ignore it completely if you want. Thanks! --Bobblehead 15:05, 27 July 2006 (UTC)

KarenAnn first introduced templates to me, and I later looked them up further. I discovered that KarenAnn's short version was missing some useful fields. I've condensed some templates, but mostly I follow the recommended short version at the particullar {{cite template}} page. For the benefit of others, since {{cite template}}s are so rare in articles I've edited, I'm hesitant to delete not-uncommon fields I don't know about.

For example, the authorlink= is for writers who have a WP article about them. The author= and coauthor= are for particular or occasional need, respectively. I don't know enough about templates to know. For the doi= field, I don't know document objects. The chapter= and page= fields are good even for on-line sources 'cause some older archives list them, so they can be found in print. Certainly id= should be kept, even if the ISBN is not immediately known. So the best might be to work out what's the best balance between clues for those who don't know about templates, and conciseness. (I think it was at your suggestion that I figured out to use <ref>LastName [(date)], [p. #]</ref> (where a source has an author) to make article text most readable for casual editors.)

For consistency and style, while editing a section, I've sometimes updated the formatting of citations made by other editors. They may have more info for filling in blank fields.

How about using any consenus at the respective talk page for a template? --GoDot 13:04, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

Good point on why to leave the blanks. I hadn't considered that. It's really not that big a thing, so just go about your business as before and ignore my request.;) --Bobblehead 19:34, 28 July 2006 (UTC)

a couple of things

1. I don't believe a single resident of Seattle recognizes such a neighborhood as "Pike Market." Do you have any reason to believe it exists other than the city clerk's map?

historylink.org essay [3]

Shorett, Alice; Morgan, Murray (1982). The Pike Place Market Seattle: Pacific Search Press. p. 135

For me, the question is not of belief, or indeed of whether it exists, but first of why it might.

Your first question SHOULD be of whether it exists. If it doesn't, it doesn't merit its own article. --Lukobe 06:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

The line was more philosophical than chronological or procedural. Having established the "might", research then indicated that, by the various definitions of a neighborhood, it exists per citations. At this point step one could be counted as whether it exists, and then proceed further, as following text describes. The usual preliminary in method is observation and thought. --GoDot 04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

"Steinbrueck then engineered a masterstroke of creative 'obstructionism' when he convinced Washington's new Advisory Council on Historic Preservation, created by the 1966 National Historic Preservation Act, to approve a 17-acre Pike Place Market Historic District [no easy task] that would block use of federal funds for demolition." Steinbrueck was a renowned architect. He must have had more than moxie to convince the Advisory Council; he would have known how to demonstrate the legitimacy of that Historic District designation. With evidence, lots of evidence. Like the Underground Tour, there are good stories out (or under) there, in the tales of the places.

So of course such an urban neighborhood might be defined by its relative or fortuitous concentration of historic (story-filled) buildings. There are such in many cities all over the world, the exception being some cities under totalitarian regimes. The historic district and neighborhood are sufficiently useful in locating architecture; reliable sources provided. At least so far, we have enough to warrant more looking. Further sources have been verified. [ed. 04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)].

What I am trying to say is this information belongs in the articles that already existed before you created "Pike Market." --Lukobe 06:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Although Wikipedia also has lots of articles that could be subsets of others, or could be subsets of each other. There was no single pre-existing article that covered. --04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

There can be good stories in the tales of places, whether an unassuming Third Place where people like to gather, or a Post Alley behind a market, or a cathedral forest older than Notre Dame or St. Michael's at Glastonbury Tor. --GoDot 14:53, 7 August 2006 (UTC)

What's your point here? --Lukobe 06:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

Just musing for amusement. Each was a pointed reference, 'nuff of that. This is something of a personal page, so I've not expected it has to be as de rigueur as Talk: pages. The article, though, has enough citations to warrant further research. Old places tend to have stories, old buildings and so neighhorhoods of old buildings tend to have stories. People like stories. Seattle is not really very old, Seattle has little enough that's relatively old. Put these together, and a picture of a neighborhood can emerge, then winnow that. To the point: there may be such stories for the article as there are with an Underground Tour in many an older city. So far, I've come across a few, but without sources. --GoDot 04:44, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

1. Your user page is strikingly minimal :) I am probably not the only one to be somewhat curious as to who you are. You are of course under no obligation to provide any personal information whatsoever, but all we know about you is your username. You know far more about us. If you care to share it might give us some insight into your edits. --Lukobe 07:04, 5 August 2006 (UTC)

I take your silence as a refusal? Funny how you always ignore questions like this rather than stating you simply prefer not to talk about yourself.. --Lukobe 06:34, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

your speedy del redirect question

answered on my talk page --Lukobe 18:56, 16 August 2006 (UTC)

wedgwood--please be careful

The neighborhood has Messiah Lutheran church on 35th at 70th Street, a Presbyterian [4] at 80th that also hosts a Korean Presbyterian, and Our Lady of the Lake with the parish school.

This is not standard English.

This would be:

Also in Wedgwood are the Messiah Lutheran church on 35th Avenue at 70th Street, a Presbyterian church[5] at 80th Street that also hosts a Korean Presbyterian congregation, and Our Lady of the Lake [where? what denomination], which also includes a parish school.

--Lukobe 20:18, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

Meetup

Looks like Wikipedia:Meetup/Seattle4 will be happening September 9, 2006. - Jmabel | Talk 02:01, 28 August 2006 (UTC)

Image:Seattlehistory org Logging train at Mt. Si, 1903-05, 6966, v00-703w.jpg

You uploaded Image:Seattlehistory org Logging train at Mt. Si, 1903-05, 6966, v00-703w.jpg. Are you sure this was published before 1923? If so where was it published? I ask because the picture clearly contains a copyright statement. Thanks -- Patleahy 19:22, 18 June 2007 (UTC)

Since I haven't got a response I'm listing this image for deletion. -- Patleahy 19:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Image:Seattlehistory org Logging train at Mt. Si, 1903-05, 6966, v00-703w.jpg listed for deletion

An image or media file that you uploaded or altered, Image:Seattlehistory org Logging train at Mt. Si, 1903-05, 6966, v00-703w.jpg, has been listed at Wikipedia:Images and media for deletion. Please see the discussion to see why this is (you may have to search for the title of the image to find its entry), if you are interested in it not being deleted. Thank you. Patleahy 19:38, 25 July 2007 (UTC)

Duwamish (tribe)

Hi,

I've fixed up the IPA a bit, but it may be a bit confused. Could you take a look? There seem to be some identity problems: turned a was called a turned e and said to be a schwa, IPA and non-IPA symbols were mixed together, etc. Thanks, kwami (talk) 08:09, 26 November 2007 (UTC)

NowCommons: Image:Lib washington edu Moore Hotel ext. & lobby, Seattle, ca. 1907; 2699, 2700.jpg

Image:Lib washington edu Moore Hotel ext. & lobby, Seattle, ca. 1907; 2699, 2700.jpg is now available on Wikimedia Commons as Commons:Image:Moore Hotel ext. & lobby, Seattle, ca. 1907.jpg. This is a repository of free media that can be used on all Wikimedia wikis. The image will be deleted from Wikipedia, but this doesn't mean it can't be used anymore. You can embed an image uploaded to Commons like you would an image uploaded to Wikipedia, in this case: [[Image:Moore Hotel ext. & lobby, Seattle, ca. 1907.jpg]]. Note that this is an automated message to inform you about the move. This bot did not copy the image itself. --Erwin85Bot (talk) 01:26, 4 October 2008 (UTC)

Salish Sea bullshit redirects

I've been locating and correcting your surreptitious and illicit redirects of items like Georgia Basin to Salish Sea, which can only be construed as a "campaign" to legitimize that name, which is not official, and does not mean what the redirect titles mean. I'll find the rest and fix them to their proper targets, and will be monitoring them in future to prevent further cooptation of geographic terms on behalf of your political-geography renaming campaign. Appropriative use of Wikipedia for such ends is not appropriate.Skookum1 (talk) 15:46, 24 October 2009 (UTC)

ArbCom elections are now open!

Hi,
You appear to be eligible to vote in the current Arbitration Committee election. The Arbitration Committee is the panel of editors responsible for conducting the Wikipedia arbitration process. It has the authority to enact binding solutions for disputes between editors, primarily related to serious behavioural issues that the community has been unable to resolve. This includes the ability to impose site bans, topic bans, editing restrictions, and other measures needed to maintain our editing environment. The arbitration policy describes the Committee's roles and responsibilities in greater detail. If you wish to participate, you are welcome to review the candidates' statements and submit your choices on the voting page. For the Election committee, MediaWiki message delivery (talk) 13:56, 23 November 2015 (UTC)