User talk:DonQuixote/Archive 6

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Vincent and the Doctor

A television broadcast is an acceptable primary source under the terms of WP:PRIMARY which includes the footnote "Further examples of primary sources include ...motion pictures, videos, and television programs."
Its host page WP:NOR also states that " transcribing spoken words from audio or video sources, is not considered original research".
Therefore that was NOT original research. It was an acceptable edit which should be reinstated. Romomusicfan (talk) 15:51, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Nowhere in the episode does it say Vincent, who was Dutch and is played by Curran in his native Scots accemt, hears Amy's Scots-accented English as Dutch-accented French., that's you saying it. Also, you need to cite a secondary source stating that this is even notable. DonQuixote (talk) 16:36, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

The source does confirm that to Vincent, Amy sounds Dutch like himself (and it does mention him being Dutch in the provided quote). If you like, we can rephrase the edit to say "played by Curran who is Scottish" and add this souce to validate his being Scottish. Romomusicfan (talk) 17:11, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

If needs be, similar sources can also be added to validate the Scottishness of actress Karen Gillan and/or the character of Amy Pond.Romomusicfan (talk) 17:13, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Seriously, you need a direct quote that says anything like the above, otherwise it's textbook original research. DonQuixote (talk) 17:16, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

Hi DQ. I hope you are well. R this is complete WP:OR and WP:SYNTH and WP:SPECULATION on your part. It is not mentioned onscreen nor is it part of any aspect of the episode. Now fan speculation is fine for your facebook page or blog but it does not belong in WikiP articles. You could try adding it to tardis.fandom.com as well. MarnetteD|Talk 18:47, 20 July 2022 (UTC)

It's there is the source dialogue. "VINCENT: That accent of yours. You from Holland like me?" Vincent hears Amy's accent as being Dutch like his own. The souce makes this point abundantly clear. All that is perhaps needed is a source each for Curran and Gillan (and/or the character of Amy) all being Scottish / having Scots accents.Romomusicfan (talk) 09:58, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Wikipedia, being a tertiary source, has its limitations. What you're trying to do is more appropriate for a secondary source. What we require is something that has already been explicitly stated and published so that we can just cite and paraphrase it--that is, a direct quote. DonQuixote (talk) 12:04, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

I don't see how it is synthesis and speculation tho. And to be frank, since the broadcast itself is the source and not any transcript, Vincent and Amy both sounding Scottish is very much a case of WP:SKYBLUE. Romomusicfan (talk) 12:16, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

and it's also very WP:SKYBLUE that in France they all speak French to each other.

(even if us Anglophones watching a drama, be it Doctor Who or Allo Allo, hear it as English.) Romomusicfan (talk) 12:23, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Here's a general rule of thumb

1. Start with a direct quote
2. Start paraphrasing
3. Anything not explicitly mentioned in the original quote is original research/synthesis

If you have to convince someone that Vincent, who was Dutch and is played by Curran in his native Scots accemt, hears Amy's Scots-accented English as Dutch-accented French. is true rather than providing a direct quote stating it, then it's indicative of step #3. DonQuixote (talk) 12:30, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Except for Amy being Scottish and Vincent *sounding* Scottish, (both of which can be supported by extra refs including the one above) it's all covered by the quote.

1) Vincent is Dutch "..from Holland like me"

2) Vincent hears Amy has a distinct accent - "Your accent."

3) Vincent recognises the said accent as matching his own "You from ... like me?"

So to summarise, if the line is thus referenced: Vincent, who was Dutch and is played by Curran in his native Scots accent, hears Amy's Scots-accented English as Dutch-accented French. then I can't see anything left that is synthesis or supposition. If you can see anything unsupported in the above that is not clearly covered by WP:SKYBLUE, kindly bung it with a CN tag and I shall go look for more sources to fill the gap.Romomusicfan (talk) 15:42, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

A further compromise - perhaps the text could be modified to Vincent, who was Dutch and is played by the Scottish Curran, hears Amy's Scots-accent as a Dutch accent: How's that? Romomusicfan (talk) 15:49, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

Ask yourself this, are you trying to add this because you think this is an interesting observation or because a reliable source thinks it's an interesting observation? Notice how you're trying to bend the rules to justify its inclusion. Look, as stated above, Wikipedia has its limitations. It's not a "repository of all knowledge" but a "summary of all previously published materials". If a reliable source thinks this is notable, and you can quote them directly, then it can be included here (although, it's not a necessity per consensus on trivia). Also, as mentioned above, there are other places to publish your observations, such as tardis wikia.

At the end of the day, the easiest and most constructive way to resolve this issue is to provide a direct quote from a reliable source that thinks this is notable. DonQuixote (talk) 17:49, 21 July 2022 (UTC)

References

Arrowverse

Greetings, I'm reaching out to get an understanding of why you are reverting my changes on the Arrowverse page where I've listed Stargirl as part of the franchise?

The last edit I did on that page were from multiple reputable secondary sources and also with statements from one of the main actors on Stargirl who stated "they are proud to be part of the Arrowverse", additionally.

To address a point you made about crossovers, the Arrowverse at large was built via crossovers, including the Crisis on Infinite Earths events, which introduced Stargirl, and other characters into the Arrowverse via those events.

Looking forward to your response. Wanderingmusic1295 (talk) 10:36, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

A crossover episode is an unreliable metric because there's loads of crossover episodes between unrelated series/franchises, among which are The Simpsons/Family Guy, Bones/Sleepy Hollow and Supernatural/Scooby Doo. You'll need something that's more reliable. DonQuixote (talk) 10:42, 14 September 2022 (UTC)

Lex Jr.

What more do you need when others supplied you with episode names to go and look and see A Lex Jr. in other media like Smallville or Lois and Clark? JosephWC (talk) 00:57, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

You need to cite a reliable secondary source that makes the connection between the two characters. DonQuixote (talk) 01:16, 2 October 2022 (UTC)

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A song for you

Hello DQ. I hope you are well. So this is the first time since the Doctor returned to our screens in '05 that we haven't had a Christmas or New Year's episode. Leon sums it up best for me :-) Best wishes for your 2023! MarnetteD|Talk 04:40, 25 December 2022 (UTC)

You missed the reason for my addition to the talk page

I put that section in hoping that somebody would be inspired to add something to the article explaining just what had happened. In the future, please ask people what they intended rather than just assuming that it's wrong and reverting it. JDZeff (talk) 02:58, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Unless a reliable secondary source starts discussing it, it's not going to happen. DonQuixote (talk) 03:00, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

List of Dalek cameo appearances

Hello. I'm trying to understand why my below edit has been undone twice.

11:51, 22 May 2023‎ DonQuixote talk contribs‎ 144,717 bytes −293‎ Undid revision 1156318878 by Typecarefulyms (talk) unsourced notability undothank Tag: Undo

I understand I've not included a source. I would have liked to, but my edit is pretty niche (relating to a production that was broadcast once to a very small audience, 32 years ago, and never released on media). It just doesn't appear to have been written about - for me, that's what makes it an interesting addition on Wikipedia!

The first time my edit was undone, I provided an explanation and a link which, though not suitable for citation, proved that my edit is factually correct.

Does Wikipedia insist on a source being provided for every new piece of information even when it's demonstrably accurate? I'm puzzled because several other entries in the list that I'm trying to edit don't include sources but have been allowed.

Thank you. Typecarefulyms (talk) 20:55, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia works by citing and summarising what reliable sources have to say (see WP:TERTIARY). If you can't cite a reputable secondary source, then it probably doesn't belong in an encyclopaedia article. DonQuixote (talk) 21:06, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Fair enough, thanks! Please can you say why the other unsourced entries in the list are OK, though, when this one isn't?

I would guess that appearances in TV programmes, by their nature, are something that might not always be documented in a secondary source. So perhaps this particular list has historically been given a little leeway? Typecarefulyms (talk) 21:20, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikipedia is an ongoing project and sometimes requires maintenance. A rule of thumb is that adding more unencyclopaedic content isn't helpful. I have just now gone through the article and trimmed some unsourced or poorly sourced (eg fansites) content. Feel free to help maintain Wikipedia articles to a high standard. DonQuixote (talk) 21:42, 22 May 2023 (UTC)

To clarify

Hi, DonQuixote. Firstly, thank you for sharing the WP:USERG with me; I was genuinely unaware as I read other articles including user ratings. With this in mind, should I be aware and edit these other articles to remove these user ratings as well as they conflict with the WP:USERG too? 61.6.123.85 (talk) 16:21, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

In a word, yes. To be more specific, unless reliable sources are discussing them (see Star Wars: The Last Jedi#Audience_reception), user generated content isn't notable (a la Letters to the Editor). DonQuixote (talk) 16:25, 29 June 2023 (UTC)

Apology

I would like to apologise for my unprofessional behaviour and the lack of understanding of Wikipedia's rules of contribution. I hate a vandalised page, and it is my responsibility to call out vandals and recognise when I've done so myself.I hope this does not alter your opinion of me.If it's not too much to ask, a reply from you to demonstrate our resolution of this will be appreciated.Thank You. Qorvos (talk) 11:47, 5 July 2023 (UTC)

Fixing

Dear Don there's an you can help fix. Cologochideilia (talk) 13:42, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Since all the decade sections are on the history of horror films article can you remove them on the main horror film article just can't have exact copies Cologochideilia (talk) 13:44, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

They're on it's history section Cologochideilia (talk) 13:46, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

All you have to do for the main horror film article is to erase every decade content from its history section because they already exist on that other article history of horror films as sections. Cologochideilia (talk) 13:51, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

 Done DonQuixote (talk) 13:59, 16 August 2023 (UTC)

Thank you Cologochideilia (talk) 14:21, 16 August 2023 (UTC)