User talk:Commonjazz

The Golden Hawks

I appreciate your passion and understand how the Golden Hawks are an iconic symbol of aviation in Canada. As a young person, I watched them in amazement and resolved to become an air cadet nearly "on the spot". In an era when air shows were a fairly regular occurrence in my home town, I started a budding career as a photographer (later filmmaker and writer) because of the Hawks. I saw all the teams, The Golden Centennaires, the Red Knight(s) and even the Goldilocks. I along with other friends in the Air Cadets, became a pilot; glasses washed out my military career but I maintained my interest as the Executive Director of the aviation industry in our part of the world, and writing and filming in my off hours (I am still the editor of an online history magazine). A similar background story can be recounted for the other editors that chimed in on the talk page, with long-time RAF, RCAF, and other aviation connections. FWiW, if you would like to assist in creating an article on some of the Golden Hawks, such as Vern Villeneuve, that appears to be a viable project. Bzuk (talk) 15:55, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

I appreciate your background and experience. I remain of what seems to me to be a very simple view - this is a page about the team, and should have information on it about the team. I simply don't understand why you or others disagree - it seems all to Canadian to me (said as a very proud one).

A separate page on the individual Hawks makes little sense to me. If we could not include information on the page that is about them, I have no appetite at this point for contributing any future work towards separate pages that would no doubt run into even more difficulty.

14 paragraphs on the page, that is all we have. And given the latest discussion, all we are every likely to have. Amazing Canadian's know anything about their history at all really. I tried. Commonjazz (talk) 16:50, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Check it out now, I have added a passage on the surviving Golden Hawks airframes (two of which are on display) as well as a Sabre V at Trenton in Golden Hawks colours. More to come ... FWiW Bzuk (talk) 16:55, 24 November 2012 (UTC).

Please note that File:Golden Hawks Pilots.jpg of the team lineup is being challenged as not coming from DND. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 17:38, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

By who and why?

This is obviously a DND photo - they don't line up like that for anything other than an official photo. There will be no way to obtain such a photo from DND at this point in time. Commonjazz (talk) 18:01, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Here's the problem, it has to have a source identified, such as shown on Canadian Department of National Defence Photo PMR 76-65 . Is this photo on a website? or was it scanned in from a collection? FWiW Bzuk (talk) 18:15, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

It perhaps has a number on the back, but I'm not taking it out of the frame - it's screwed in and removal might damage it. It is obviously Crown copyright, more than 50 years old, and that is how I labelled it when I posted it.

The unique value of the picture, in my view, is the signatures of the actual pilots themselves. As I have said, I see history as being made by men, and coverage of those men as essential to conveying the substance of the history. There are so many reasons why I believe the decision reached today is a lost opportunity.

I appreciate the sense of ownership the editors feel over this page, could be a good thing. However I believe their execution of this sense is widely misplaced.

In any case, I have little appetite for further putting forward my points to a community that does not respond to good arguments, but just says "no", to the detriment of capturing true, relevant, and important information about a soon to be forgotten piece of Canadian history. I don't see any productive likelihood to further engage this closed community. Commonjazz (talk) 18:50, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Here's the solution; redo the application of the photograph as from "your personal collection" via DND and not through Wikipedia Commons which has very stringent requirements for authenticity and provenance. I never put a photograph into Commons if I can assign it to Wikipedia where it can be sourced as from you and you assign it as "fair use" media. FWiW Bzuk (talk) 19:50, 24 November 2012 (UTC).

Done. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 209.217.120.75 (talk) 21:01, 24 November 2012 (UTC)

Commonjazz, you are invited to the Teahouse

Hi Commonjazz! Thanks for contributing to Wikipedia. Be our guest at the Teahouse! The Teahouse is a friendly space where new editors can ask questions about contributing to Wikipedia and get help from peers and experienced editors. I hope to see you there! Jtmorgan (I'm a Teahouse host) Visit the Teahouse This message was delivered automatically by your robot friend, HostBot (talk) 01:17, 26 November 2012 (UTC)

Season's tidings!

To you and yours, Have a Merry ______ (fill in the blank) and Happy New Year! FWiW Bzuk (talk) 02:27, 22 December 2012 (UTC)