User:Doncram/sandbox15

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Doncram (talk · contribs · logs · block log · page moves · count · edit summaries · non-automated edits · articles created · BLP edits · AfD votes · XfD votes · admin score (beta) · previous RfAs) Doncram (t · th · c · del · cross-wiki · SUL · edit counter · pages created (xtools · sigma) · non-automated edits · BLP edits · undos · manual reverts · rollbacks · logs (blocks · rights · moves) · rfar · spi · cci) (assign permissions)(acc · ap · ev · fm · mms · npr · pm · pc · rb · te) Last 50 AFDSTATS for Doncram

wp:NRHPHELPNARA;

Check history of wp:NRHPPROGRESS; wp:NRHPPROGRESS; Check history of wt:NRHP; wt:NRHP

in 2023[edit]

Side Hall with Wing[edit]

An architectural style, "Side Hall with Wing" or "Side Hall with Wing architecture" or [["Side Hall with Wing style" has about 40 surviving representatives, out of what was once more than 400, in Mobile, Alabama. "The Side Hall with Wing – The Ultimate Mobile Townhouse" author=Cartledge Blackwell date=September 26, 2022 publisher=Mobile Bay Magazine. Related to what-are-they-called L-houses(?), did it function similarly to address heat? Cart Blackwell an architectural historian, curator at Mobile Carnival Museum, one of the examples. Co-author with Robert Gamble, i was quoting at Perdue Hill Masonic Lodge draft.

From SAH essay "Alabama", several possible sources:

  • Gamble, Robert. The Alabama Catalog – Historic America Building Survey: A Guide to the Early Architecture of the State. Tuscaloosa: University of Alabama Press, 1987.
  • Gamble, Robert. Historic Architecture in Alabama: A Guide to Styles and Types, 1810–1930. Tuscaloosa: University of Alabama Press, 1990; reprinted 2001.
  • Gould, Elizabeth Barrett. From Fort to Port: An Architectural History of Mobile, 1711–1918. Tuscaloosa: University of Alabama Press, 1988.
  • Sledge, John S. The Pillared City: Greek Revival Mobile. Athens: University of Georgia Press, 2009.

building and home construction industry history[edit]

Route 66 in Oklahoma MPS[edit]

continue updating articles on route 66 gas stations, bridges, Blue Dome Historic District, etc. on {{NRHP in Tulsa County}} with MPS and AD references:

  • E.g., "Its listing was consistent with two studies, in 1994 and 2003, which evaluated historic resources on Route 66 in Oklahoma."[1] [2]
  • Or "its listing is related to a 1994 study titled "Route 66 and Associated Historic Resources in Oklahoma" [1] and a 2003 extension and update.[2] The first covered transportation and commerce on Route 66 in Oklahoma during 1926-1944. The second expanded coverage to years past 1944 and the expanded the scope "to include broader changes in community, in migration, in transportation networks, in recreation, and in other areas related to the patterns of history associated with Route 66."[2]

References

  1. ^ a b Maryjo Meacham; Brenda Peck; Lisa Bradley; Susan Roth (1994). National Register of Historic Places Multiple Property Documentation: Route 66 and Associated Historic Resources in Oklahoma. National Park Service. Retrieved June 6, 2023.
  2. ^ a b c Michael J. Cassity (2003). National Park Service title=National Register of Historic Places Multiple Property Documentation: Route 66 and Associated Historic Resources in Oklahoma (Additional Documentation) https://catalog.archives.gov/id/86510547 title=National Register of Historic Places Multiple Property Documentation: Route 66 and Associated Historic Resources in Oklahoma (Additional Documentation). Retrieved June 6, 2023. {{cite report}}: Check |url= value (help); Missing or empty |title= (help); Missing pipe in: |url= (help)

Odd Fellows buildings at Commons[edit]

Continue at Talk:List of Odd Fellows buildings in the United States--Doncram (talk,contribs) 17:10, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

el que calla otorga[edit]

"Ever heard of the saying el que calla otorga? The one who remains quiet, concedes." [2]. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 16:27, 24 May 2023 (UTC)

essay to update OTHERSTUFFEXISTS[edit]

Shakespearian-speak? or what by User:Jack4576 in this edit in AFD about Hungarian restaurants and another edit there. And, essay updating OTHERSTUFFEXISTS is in fact needed. See another's response referencing whataboutism. --Doncram, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

apologies[edit]

I've recently asserted I am wrong often too, but routinely will accept criticism and apologize where I am shown wrong, or just determine on my own that I was. Accumulate examples? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 22:08, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

conjunction articles as a type[edit]

Essay needed, or addition to a relevant guideline/policy, that conjunction articles are different, should not be measured on standalone article criteria. As I discuss out at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Imbros and Tenedos (2nd nomination). --Doncram (talk,contribs) 21:10, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

Arizona architects at preservetucson.org[edit]

bios available for each, e.g. Judith Chafee bio for Judith Chafee Architects:

ship set list being encyclopedic[edit]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Woolton (ship) good reasoning on ship set-list being encyclopedic, i.e. useful and expected (vs. wp:ITSUSEFULL being a bad thing). Also an example of editor Fram ranging about taking potshots randomly. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 20:11, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Grouping Texas regions[edit]

Using transclusion. See Talk:National Register of Historic Places listings in Texas/ByEconDevArea/Upper East.

And raised at wt:NRHP, and got a couple "thanks", and went live with the regions. Yay! --Doncram (talk,contribs) 20:11, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

Sessions-Pope-Sheild House, aargh (resolved well enough)[edit]

Is it "Sessions-Pope-Sheild House" or "Sessions-Pope-Sheild House"? ... "Sheild House" shows on drawings in Commons' Category:Sessions-Pope-Sheild House. A HABS data page shows Shield.

Long ago noted at wp:NRIS info issues VA

I started recategorizing, some now at Commons' Category:Sessions-Pope-Shield House may need to be changed back?

I moved Sessions-Pope-Sheild House to Sessions-Pope-Sheild House article and changed NRHP county list-article, may need to move back? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 23:43, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

someone did, good. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 20:13, 14 April 2023 (UTC)

St. Ferdinand City[edit]

Developed MRA reference for Hanson House (Florissant, Missouri) which applies to many other St. Louis County listings of houses, buildings, and historic districts. The individual docs show up at NARA when searching on MRA number 64000401 search at NARA. Do them...create article or add MRA document to existing articles or to row in county NRHP list-article. These are:

  1. Barton House (Florissant, Missouri), found at NARA by mps # search, has an article...
  2. Hubecky House, found at NARA by mps # search
  3. Lance House, found at NARA by mps # search
  4. Bouas House, found at NARA by mps # search
  5. Stroer House, found at NARA by mps # search
  6. Meyer House (Florissant, Missouri), found at NARA by mps # search
  7. Nicolay House, found at NARA by mps # search
  8. Withington House, found at NARA by mps # search
  9. Tebeau House, found at NARA by mps # search
  10. Marvin Tebeau House, found at NARA by mps # search
  11. Narrow Gauge Railroad Station Narrow Gauge Railroad Station (St. Louis, Missouri) Narrow Gauge Railroad Station (Florissant, Missouri), found at NARA by mps # search
  12. Kramer House (Florissant, Missouri), found at NARA by mps # search
  13. Goldbeck House, found at NARA by mps # search
  14. Reeb House, found at NARA by mps # search
  15. Marcus Laramie House, found at NARA by mps # search
  16. Barteau House, found at NARA by mps # search
  17. Peters House (Florissant, Missouri), found at NARA by mps # search

Also NRHP-listed on September 12, 1979, in the county list-article:

  1. St. Ferdinand Central Historic District
  2. August Aubuchon House
  3. and there are more..

Are all of these listed September 12, 1979 and location=Florissant in National Register of Historic Places listings in St. Louis County, Missouri? All but Barton House one of 17 found by NARA search on MPS number are currently redlinks! --Doncram (talk,contribs) 22:24, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

substubs[edit]

Hanson House happens to be one of seven "substubs" lvklock created (this one relating to disambiguation Hanson House (disambiguation)), listed in 2017 report at User:Doncram/SubStubsByOriginalAuthorByState. The others are:

  1. Antioch Baptist Church (St. Louis, Missouri) --started for DAB bluelink, developed, removed from NRIS-only, incl. Ville MPS and MPS AD added which probably have more info, too
  2. Lafayette Square Historic District (St. Louis) --started for boundary increase(s)
  3. Burkhardt Historic District --started for boundary increase(s)
  4. Clemens House-Columbia Brewery District --started for boundary increase(s)
  5. Forest Park Southeast Historic District --started for boundary increase(s)
  6. Hanson House (Florissant, Missouri) --started for error in DAB, developed, removed from NRIS-only
  7. Lucas Avenue Industrial Historic District --started for boundary increase(s)

--Doncram (talk,contribs) 03:09, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

All now have NRHP docs available, including the five first boundary increases and one second boundary increase, added to their articles. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 23:03, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

NRHPbot substubs[edit]

Per report had 131 ...

i.p. editor 64.128.111.246[edit]

i.p. editor did at least one copy-paste, not too many contributions say 30 NRHP ones? i.p. editor contributions history

Ville, St. Louis[edit]

The Ville, St. Louis was subject of MPS 1998 and MPS AD 2010, under which Antioch Baptist Church (St. Louis, Missouri) and Stowe Teachers College were listed. Docs added to those two. Any others? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 22:24, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Others listed same day in National Register of Historic Places listings in St. Louis north and west of downtown:

  1. Tandy Community Center (redlink currently), i started Draft:Tandy Community Center
  2. Marshall School Marshall School (St. Louis, Missouri) Marshall School (St. Louis)--need to move Duluth, MN one to start a DAB first
  3. Simmons Colored School (redlink currently)
  4. St. Louis Colored Orphans Home (redlink currently)
  5. Charles Turner Open Air School (redlink currently)
  6. Holy Corners Historic District includes Tuscan Masonic Temple, 5015 Westminster Place (1908) for Masonic list
  7. Fox Theater (St. Louis, Missouri)

--Doncram (talk,contribs) 23:22, 2 April 2023 (UTC)

Israel region again[edit]

I mentioned assignment of Israel to "Europe" in UNESCO at Talk:List of ship museums. I being skeptical that Israel has been moved from World Heritage UNESCO region for Europe, and suspect some Wikipedia editor(s) of having changed the info and now making false statements. I supposed fireworks would fly when I go to fix. There do exist both Israel and Palestine. Browse, I do see Israel in Western Asia at [https://unstats.un.org/unsd/methodology/m49/ this UN Stats page, which by the way states "The assignment of countries or areas to specific groupings is for statistical convenience and does not imply any assumption regarding political or other affiliation of countries or territories by the United Nations." (as cited in List of World Heritage Sites in Eastern Europe that source was accessed in 2011, but maybe the source is evergreen and changing? But in the latest(?) regional report on Europe, back in 2015, Israel is there.

Searching on "Israel" in WikiProject World Heritage Sites and elsewhere I find myself in 2009 Israel categorization discussion

The division reflects political facts of nations and of UN recognition of Palestine and it being part of Arab States, for which working can be done in Arabic I suppose, while i think in the working committee(s) the languages and culture of Israel probably works better with the N. America and Europe.

But could there have been a quiet switcheroo when whoever further divided, or partitioned differently to have List of World Heritage Sites in Southern Europe, List of World Heritage Sites in Western Asia, etc., and if so when and who did that? And if that happened, then why was "Interactive Map - UNESCO World Heritage Centre" not changed? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 08:06, 11 March 2023 (UTC)

backups in NRHP refs?[edit]

Bits from User talk:Kiran891, and other, relating to Comstock Tract Buildings NRHP doc.

Me: But please let's use the permanent URLs using NARA's reference numbers, e.g. (a) https://catalog.archives.gov/id/75320467, a proper permanent URL of Comstock Buildings NRHP document at National Archives.

As opposed to (b) https://s3.amazonaws.com/NARAprodstorage/lz/electronic-records/rg-079/NPS_NY/80004279.pdf, a perhaps-temporary direct URL of Comstock Buildings NRHP document at current storage location.

Have you done many of these? It would be great if you have some efficient way to fix up a whole host of NYS NRHP articles' references. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 00:32, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

Hi thanks for the message. My edits are limited and I think we agree. I have added the actual link as the url and archive.org link in the archive-url space (and not the AWS link). Let me know if you see any mistakes. Thanks. Kiran_891 (TALK) 00:39, 24 February 2023 (UTC)
What Kiran891 calls an "actual link" is what I label as "(a)" above, which might be termed the "official NARA link using their NAID" (which is indirect, it brings you to a screen having a window where the document loads, perhaps slowly). Call that (NARA-permanent).
Right here Kiran891 doesn't refer to what I label as "(b)" above, which might be termed the "direct link to NARA's document" (call it (NARA-current-direct) which brings up the document, which loads perhaps slowly)
The document used to be available at a NYS OPRHP site, let me call it (NYS-text). I guess it was http://www.oprhp.state.ny.us/hpimaging/hp_view.asp?GroupView=6341 for the text part of the document. It is no longer available. And there was a (NYS-photos)
Not always for NYS sites, there was also NPS versions for text and photos, (NPS-text) and (NPS-photos)
What Kiran891 called the "archive.org link" is an archived version of (b) or (NARA-current-direct).
The archived version of (NYS-text) is available. https://web.archive.org/web/20110724052627/http://www.oprhp.state.ny.us/hpimaging/hp_view.asp?GroupView=6341 And presumably archived version of (NYS-photos) is too.
(EC) Actually you seem to know stuff I don't. I have long been an editor of NRHP articles and have been "fixing" a number of NYS NRHP document references recently. Now I notice that "location=NAID: 7532046" was put in, I think by you, into one or more of the references. That uses the National Archives IDentification number which I have been wanting to use in the URL, as in "url=https://catalog.archives.gov/id/75320467". If that is included then maybe the reference using (b) can be used, and as they are more direct to just the document, perhaps they are better? References of type (a) do work to get you indirectly to the document, but within an outer screen. What do you know about this kind of stuff? Could you be an expert who could help me and other NRHP editors understand what is best to do with these? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 00:44, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

?Now what? What is best way to reference NRHP docs, perhaps using a backup URL which allows faster retrieval than the NARA-permanent url? What is that NAID location thing?


Malacca museums[edit]

Plane in adjacent Coronation Park
  • At the AFD on Kite Museum (Malacca) i commented People's Museum is complicated, and merger was not decided, and result was "no consensus". Should there be a table in List of museums in Malacca? There is now a table including several museums the Ayer Keroh article at its "Tourist attractions" section, which I just fixed up.

merger tag removals[edit]

  • afd-merge tags being removed without merger being done
    • for one editor, I went through all of their contributions to undo their confounding of afd-merge process. Questioned tool, afd-easy-merge or such.
    • for another I am also reverting their non-merge of one case.
06:12, 12 February 2023 diff hist  −1‎  Talk:Golconda diamonds ‎ Undid revision 1138638471 by AnomieBOT (talk) Nope, article was not merged, only the template calling for a merge was removed. current Tag: Undo
06:10, 12 February 2023 diff hist  +43‎  Golconda diamonds ‎ restore "main" template. article which was to be merged was not merged, only the AFD-MERGE request was dropped... with edit summary stating merger is needed... current
06:08, 12 February 2023 diff hist  +7,973‎  Crimes surrounding Golconda Diamonds ‎ Undid revision 1138595354 by Fram (talk) Merger was not done, edit summary even calls for it. So don't remove afd merge. current Tags: Removed redirect Undo
Is there systematic problem here. Do afd-merge implementations need to be systematically reviewed, and/or restrict to certified persons somehow? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 06:16, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
  • In this edit there is unsupported accusation at me. The kind of stuff which wp:ANI is currently going all over, that such deserves blocking. I have disagreed with them in several AFDs about ships, including my on-the-spot characterizing their comments as bullying-like. Feels like random attacks now, including also this at my Talk page. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 12:16, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
Repeated false-type AFD noms? Last 100 AFDSTATS for Fram

possibly-PD[edit]

re-using and paraphrasing possibly-PD materials: This is a big topic, and a trap for incoming new editors, as Wikipedia is really inconsistent in guidelines/policies/practice.

Last Talk page before they blanked it]. In "Copyvio?" section the issue is being raised, and perhaps unfairly they are being told "this is not how we do things", "this is not what we want", when that is really not clear from anything in Wikipedia guidance I think. Essay needed, or how else address? --Doncram (talk,contribs) 20:51, 5 February 2023 (UTC)

in 2022[edit]

archeological sites combo articles[edit]

over-quotation and coordinates precision[edit]

To User:MB at Talk:Deer Lodge Central Business Historic District: "I don't disagree that the long-ish quotes that I had left in this article's draft would better be rewritten, but an alternative to deleting the material, better IMHO, is to just add tag {{over-quotation}}. I could probably figure out how to see any articles created by me that were tagged that way, in order to address them myself. Currently there is one." (Downtown Paris Historic District)

"About WP:COORDPREC, the coordinates with 6 decimals were just as copied in from National Register of Historic Places listings in Powell County, Montana. If you disagree with those, perhaps you should be running a bot to revise that and all the other NRHP list-article pages. Probably the hard-coded 6 decimal coordinates there were converted from DD-MM-SS coordinates." --Doncram (talk,contribs) 18:30, 8 December 2022 (UTC)

notes[edit]

temporary new user notes[edit]

Merge this to somewhere else:

essay to stop the continuing AFD stream on university buildings[edit]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Loyola Hall (Seattle University) right now, which even encourages running multiple topic AFD, while all should be stopped immediately, instead. I commented there. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 20:05, 3 November 2022 (UTC)

RfC to standardize "reason=" type arguments for templates[edit]

Draft at:User:Doncram/Propose standardizing "reason=", "1=", "rationale=" arguments in templates. To be posted at: Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Wikipedia technical issues and templates.

revisit access-restricted[edit]

Is there some way NPS and/or state SHPs could change "access-restricted" status on known places. At Talk:St. Boniface Cemetery, Wrought-Iron Cross Site there is link to AFD about all the iron cross sites, with mention of cemetery locations knowable from GNIS, and in fact St. Boniface Cemetery, Wrought-Iron Cross Site does point to the site. In Google satellite view you can see it is a cemetery. Maybe all locations are identified, were publicly known. What is the point, then, of restricting the NRHP doc for "St. Boniface Cemetery, Wrought-Iron Cross Site"? NARA will not provide; they are enforcing the "Fully restricted" identifier. --Doncram (talk) 21:47, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

origin of NHL program and Charleston Historic District and Draft:Buildings in the Charleston Historic District[edit]

Revisit NY NHL list? I came across the Mackintosh source sometime in 2016, and realized it would explicitly address complaint formulated against Featured List candidacy for NYS NHL list back in 2008, not promoted, and disagreement continued in FL of Alabama NHL list promoted early in 2009. I added the Mackintosh source to List of National Historic Landmarks in New York, in this edit of 15 November 2016 with edit summary "edit adding Mackintosh's history of national park service units effectively being ineligible for NHL listing". It received no reaction there, and i believe the source might not have been ever discussed in WikiProject NRHP or elsewhere in Wikipedia. Talk page archives search at wt:NRHP for "Mackintosh" yields no hits. --Doncram (talk) 05:33, 24 September 2022 (UTC)
Theme Studies.
  • Nation-level treatment of the first 92 NHLs: their excellence should be explained in each of their 92 or so articles. Cite the October 9, 1960 memo that is included in the Charleston batch at NARA (and which I have downloaded). E.g., say something like:

    The historic importance and preserved integrity of the ____ district is extraordinary, therefore it was one of just 87 individual properties and five historic districts which were included in the first batch of National Historic Landmarks designated by the U.S. Secretary of the Interior, when starting the program on October 9, 1960. (The five were Colonial Williamsburg, Virginia; the Charleston Historic District in South Carolina, ; Elfreth's Alley in Philadelphia; Old Deerfield Village in Deerfield, Massachusetts; and Huguenot Street in New Paltz, New York.) Then, in 1966 when the National Register of Historic Places program was started, this place ____ was listed, along with other NHLs, amongst the ____ in number listed on the first day of its program, October 15? 16?, 1966.

  • Draft:Buildings in the Charleston Historic District seems like a good thing but needs to be limited. There are 10,000+ photos in commons of Charleston houses, buildings. Similar to Buildings in the Savannah Historic District? perhaps getting too bloated? For now,
  • get copy of page missing in CHD doc from NPS
    • "finish" draft buildings list, submit to AFC
    • clarify in Charleston Historic District article that borders given in detailed text in NARA bundle, pages 102-105, and maps. Maps of the original 1931 district (which became a National Historic Landmark in 1960), the expansion of that National Historic Landmark district in 1966, and the greater area covered in the 1975 listing on the National Register of Historic Places, are on pages 281-84 of NARA collection at 66000964_NHL.
  • Correspond to NARA for them to have the NHL, NRHP docs, not in their bundle? note p321 starts 1971-dated doc. next to last page of 347 total lists 5 relevant NRHP docs and refnums. Hmm does NARA have each? From searching on just one refnum 78002497, oh it seems to: ***1. South Carolina SP Charleston Historic District From RG: 79 National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmarks Program Records National Archives Identifier: 118997299 Creator: Department of the Interior. National Park Service. (3/2/1934 - ) Thumbnail1 ***2. South Carolina SP Charleston Old and Historic District (Boundary Increase) From RG: 79 National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmarks Program Records National Archives Identifier: 118997313 Creator: Department of the Interior. National Park Service. (3/2/1934 - ) Thumbnail2 ***3. South Carolina SP Charleston Old and Historic District (Boundary Increase) From RG: 79 National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmarks Program Records National Archives Identifier: 118997311 Creator: Department of the Interior. National Park Service. (3/2/1934 - ) Thumbnail3 ***4. South Carolina SP Charleston Historic District (Boundary Increase) From RG: 79 National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmarks Program Records National Archives Identifier: 118997301 Creator: Department of the Interior. National Park Service. (3/2/1934 - ) Thumbnail4 ***5. South Carolina SP Charleston Historic District (Boundary Increase) From RG: 79 National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmarks Program Records National Archives Identifier: 118997303 Creator: Department of the Interior. National Park Service. (3/2/1934 - ) Thumbnail5 ***6- NHL South Carolina NHL Charleston Historic District From RG: 79 National Register of Historic Places and National Historic Landmarks Program Records National Archives Identifier: 118996840 Creator: Department of the Interior. National Park Service. (3/2/1934 - )
  • Revisit NHL article which I have modified, lessen treatment of the distinction designated eligible vs. designated.

Modified text in NHL article, with a long note: On October 9, 1960, 92 places (properties or districts) were announced as eligible to be designated NHLs by Secretary of the Interior Fred A. Seaton. Agreements of owners or responsible parties were subsequently obtained, but all 92 have since been considered listed on that 1960 date.[1]

References

  1. ^ The October 9, 1960 document is included in correspondence with the City of Charleston, South Carolina, whose Charleston Historic District was included in the list, as one of five historic districts named amongst the 92. What NARA currently provides at "Charleston Historic District" is very different from a regular NRHP or NHL submission; it includes no NRHP or NHL forms at all. Instead it includes correspondence relating to the designation of the Charleston Historic District as an NHL, and correspondence on later threats, and further on some properties in the district. It in fact includes the nation-wide study of which places were deemed eligible for NHL designation in 1960, a list including the Charleston Historic District. This was conveyed in an October 9, 1960 release from U.S. Secretary of the Interior Fred A. Seaton (pages 36-55). This includes a nation-wide list of sites eligible (p.38-53). An outline of themes identified in the National Survey of Historic Sites and Buildings (which the Department of the Interior was authorized to undertake in 1935 legislation) is (p.54-55). (Charleston Mayor J. Palmer Gaillard, Jr. formally accepted the designation in 1961 (pages 57, 92); three NHL candidate places were named as not having indicated interest to accept the designation.) Two letters, in 1966 and 1970, refer to the Charleston Historic District having been designated a NHL in October 1963 (pages 64 & 70). [However later NPS documents including this archived 2007 list of NHLs treats the Charleston HD and others as having been listed as NHLs on October 9, 1960.] Includes correspondence, photos, plans, more. NARA collection of documents associated with Charleston Historic District. NARA. Retrieved September 8, 2022. 347 pages.

combo rfc[edit]

Draft rfc, to be binding, covering:

  • same name same county (mini-rfc was :Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#same_name_same_county
  • ship name capitalization or not in NRHP lists, and use of italics, now possible in article titles, too. E.g. one in Bergen County list. (see Ship vs. SHIP within Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#NRHP_list-article_formatting_issues)
  • Where to sort the ones starting with USS prefix. The Featured List List of NHLs in AL has USS Alabama first in order. Reorderings in favor of putting all the USS ones at the ends of lists have happeend though. (see Ship vs. SHIP within Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#NRHP_list-article_formatting_issues)
  • Require all places in or near Town to be listed as in Town (so they sort together?), or to allow Town vic. vs. Town. I cannot explain, but when I spend time working on KY list-article and sort it out, I do not want to see the distinction eliminated.
  • Require all NRHP lists to have refnums linked to NPS locations which usually (i think 50% or more) do not connect to an NRHP doc (either show false "not digitized" or show not available? for ones moved to NARA) OR allow customization to link to where NRHP doc is actually available, often now at NARA (maybe esp. when there is no article) OR get rid of the linking. Or require link to NARA location using list of correspondence now available (but why, when have article with full proper citation). There were objections at time, i was not involved.
  • Extends into another county (see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#NRHP_list-article_formatting_issues) what? moot?
  • boundary increases (see Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places/Archive_45#NRHP_list-article_formatting_issues). was this about including all refnums in list row and in infobox?
  • listing name changes, too. Show both on list row and in infobox and in bold text in article lede? Jonesboro, TN is one.
  • "County-firsters" vs. "County-deniers". Allow a bunch of geographically close grouped single-NRHP-in-a-county places to be presented in a region list, using sensible definitions of regions in a state, for which "show all coordinates" will be helpful. Or require each to have a separate county article. Or put all the short ones in a state-wide list, for which "show all coordinates will be misleading, unhelpful. Perceptions vary according to where an editor is from, e.g. possibly county-centric largely rural midwest states like Iowa, say, where maybe locals say they are from X County, and/or county names are known for reason that county and county seat names are synonymous (is that right way to say it? anyhow that Y county usually has county seat Y). In other states people don't know the county at all; in Connecticut counties were legally dissolved in 19xx; in some states cities have grown to combine and eliminate multiple county governments, yet our lists reflect old counties. And Texas seems to be different (note election campaigns where candidates pledge to go to every county, and it seems there's not general agreement about any partition by regions. But there is partition used by Texas Historical Society which is used by them, surely we can use that. Link to Talk:List of RHPs in PR which went with tourist regions (revised to use a more official partition by tourist regions), Talk:List of RHPs in ND, Talk:List of RHPs in WV, Talk:List of RHPs in TX
  • what else?

Request outside help refining RFC to be neutral and clear, and organizing (and moderating?) discussion, and running process, and closing, from those experienced in well-run big RFCs. To address slow churning on some of these points. Arguably some of these don't matter, i don't care about, e.g. ship names, but want to stop slow churning. Note my views have changed on some of these, not saying which.

tfd or mfd[edit]

TFD or MFD aggression. Dismissal, exercise of power, at [{Wikipedia:Templates_for_discussion/Log/2022_September_22#Template:TexasHistoricalCommissionNote]]. Which obviously mattered to me, object to "proof" of no issue being one or two editors' computers not having problems, i was returning, find it closed. My perspective that indicator of downloading issue for some users is a problem, and this was a decent temporary soluntion; could have raised to Village Pump technical or such; unfair to impose burden immediately upon a given editor to solve huge Wikipedia level problem; postpoing a year would have been fine. Acting like there is a rush=an act of aggression. To make deletion of category less bullying, closure ps. should routinely offer to provide list of members of a category, before deleting it and removing from all pages. Or, if intended solution is replacing a mainspace category by a Talk space one, as for NRHP architects, implement that rather than simply giving list which i could not implement (another's control over banner prevented). Basicly, consider what would be nicer, not as dismissive/destructive/disheartening.

Note Primebot could easily be adjusted to deliver the list, if wanted. In this case TFD mentioned one page template used, and I know enough to see it was Primebot and go to Primebot's contributions, to figure out it was the following: Talk:First United Methodist Church (Waco, Texas) ‎ →‎National Register-related or not?: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:41, 30 September 2022 diff hist −36‎ m Montana Avenue Historic District ‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:40, 30 September 2022 diff hist −98‎ m Fort Bliss Main Post Historic District ‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −34‎ m House at 912 Magoffin Avenue ‎ →‎top: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −34‎ m First National Bank Building (Jayton, Texas) ‎ →‎top: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −34‎ m Old Irion County Courthouse ‎ →‎top: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −20‎ m Faulk and Gauntt Building‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −32‎ m Doan's Adobe House ‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −33‎ m Old Frio County Jail ‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:38, 30 September 2022 diff hist −35‎ m Trinity and Brazos Valley Railroad Depot and Office Building‎ Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:37, 30 September 2022 diff hist −34‎ m Old Bnai Zion Synagogue ‎ →‎top: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:37, 30 September 2022 diff hist −35‎ m Socorro Mission ‎ →‎top: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:37, 30 September 2022 diff hist +4‎ m Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Resources ‎ →‎Texas: Task 24: template removal following a TFD current Tag: AWB 11:37, 30 September 2022 diff hist −34‎ m O. T. Bassett Tower ‎ →‎top

I wonder if its edits to Talk page and to NRHP resources even made sense (another reason to provide list for person affected to check effects). In this case Primebot entirely removed the template from the mainspace articles, but replaced the template by {{TexasHistoricalCommissionNote}} on the Talk and WikiProject pages (by {{t|TexasHistoricalCommissionNote}}). Not the worst, but followup editing by editor affected (me) would make sense. --Doncram (talk) 17:21, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

coordinates precision[edit]

I have been selecting coordinates using 5 decimals; i do not like the random step introduced by an editor when they "reduce overly precise coords". Spot on coordinates give confidence to reader that the pointer is really on that building. Note there can be difference due to angle of perspective down, in Google Satellite view, though, which I wasn't focusing upon. And in one case there was difference viewing in Google Satellite vs. Bing Satellite, maybe from different angles down.

For example:

  • see in Google Satellite view of National Hotel (Miami Beach, Florida), this random step for National Hotel, in Google satellite view, which changed by +.00005 in north-south coords, from 25.79185 to 25.7919, in this edit by user:Deor with edit summary "trim overprecise coords; add {{coord}} param". They also dropped "source:Doncram" and added "region:US-FL" in that edit. I do notice that my chosen coords hit the dome on top of the tall tower, as I intended, not from looking straight down in Google Satellite view, but from angled view as it had come up for me, so the effect is this, from an angle -- i was right on e-w axis but off the offcenter tallest tower and upon the middle of the entire tower instead. --Doncram (talk) 20:03, 24 September 2022 (UTC)

Uranienborg Roald Amundsen House, and translation tool(s)[edit]

Draft:Roald Amundsen House, obviously to me notable, was deleted. Was there an AFD? The deletion not mentioned at redlink.

Searching in News:

Update: I thought it should be in Norway's heritage register, but it was not listed in Wikipedia Norsk Bokmal's page for its location. Happily, I asked at that page's Talk why it is not there, and I was promptly advised by User:EdoAug that it should be! Documentation at https://www.kulturminnesok.no/kart/?q=239674. --Doncram (talk) 00:31, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Tycho Brache's Uranienborg was spectacular! Uraniborg is en article. It is "uranienborg" in Norwegian bokmol and in Danish or Swedish, one of them. --Doncram (talk) 01:34, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Back then I translated a few articles from Norwegian and French wikipedias partially and I "published" one or two to my Userspace. Turning on some translation tool caused a side problem in my edit window sometimes, addressed at Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)#editing_glitch_which_moves_cursor,_disallows_my_use_of_capital_letters. --Doncram (talk) 03:08, 1 October 2022 (UTC)

spi?[edit]

|evidence=Blazeofnoon is an inactive account. It posts this criticism of an academic, alleging fraud which cites a blog/critique website "Datacolada".

Which is the oldest, possible spi master to name a case? Blazeofnoon? anonymous ip editors? who cite datacolada at Talk:Amy Cuddy Mix of editors involved, not sure yet which side "Tim bates" is on. --Doncram (talk) 10:37, 2 September 2022 (UTC)

Tapestry brick[edit]

Tapestry brick (currently a redlink) is used 40 or so times in NRHP and other articles in Wikipedia. (see this search's results). There are currently 4 inbound links to it from mainspace articles.

An article would be helpful right now for me in writing Draft:R.T. Frazier House, where there is both tapestry brick and other stonework which I think is different. --Doncram (talk) 18:53, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Start Draft:Tapestry brick? Maybe/probably the topic should be added to the existing Brickwork article, which does not use the word "tapestry". A separate article could show a lot of examples though. It could survey Commons:Category:Brick buildings by country And/or by color: Commons:Category:Orange brick buildings by country‎, Commons:Red brick buildings by country‎, Commons:White brick buildings by country‎, Commons:Yellow brick buildings by country‎.

Definitions:

Per the Free Dictionary, it is: "Face brick that is laid in a decorative pattern with a combination of vertical, horizontal, and diagonal elements, such as a basket-weave bond."

Is it any brick face meant to be nice to look at? Maybe it is in effect that, it is when a brick surface is decorative, or is presented forward to be looked at? As opposed to being merely functional. How does it compare to a brick curtain / curtain-wall / curtain wall?

Architect (magazine), in Mike Jackson (March 1, 2018). "The Building Blocks: A Brief History of Brick". Architect (magazine). The phrase "tapestry brick" indicates the use of brick to create a pattern effect, a style that is often associated with rough-textured brick made popular in the early 20th century. This type of brick was frequently featured in Arts & Crafts architecture, but could also be found in various styles of commercial and residential buildings of the era.

Jonathan D. Taylor (2013). "Tapestry Brick Dwellings: The Emergence of a Residential Type in Brooklyn". Columbia University Commons?. Defines a Tapestry brick dwelling as a thing; houses in Flatbush. Patterned brick plus other features.

--Doncram (talk) 19:03, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Old Temple[edit]

Old Vedanta Society Temple, first hindu temple in North America

--Doncram (talk) 19:44, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

get Wikipedialibrary access (partly done)[edit]

Wikipedia:WikiProject Resource Exchange/Resource Request for individual requests for others to get something for u,

https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/partners/ are the platforms, https://wikipedialibrary.wmflabs.org/?next_url=/users/my_library/ is where to simply login, to Wikipedia Library card. Just go in there, and pick nothing or pick Jstor or Ebsco or its Newspapers one, or whichever, and u are in. No application needed. That worked, ran an author "advanced search" in Jstor. Seems to be managing by cookies or number of logins or such. And presumably it checks that user has 500 edits, enough recent edits, etc. --Doncram (talk) 08:13, 1 September 2022 (UTC)

Further there is application for access to more there.
The Wikipedia Library access point brings up Newspaper Archive or something like that, different than Newspapers.com
  • Apply for newspapers.com and/or other library access; is Science Direct access different?

Knock down number of drafts in Draft space and in User space[edit]

first, maintain them to avoid bot 5 month attacks[edit]

  • manually revised 1st 15, through Draft:Hell Canyon Bridge on 12/9/2022, so good until May 8, 2023
  • This is cumbersome, better to fire up AWB:
    • Copy pasted numbers 16 on to User:Doncram/draftslist
    • Edit there to make wikilinks: replace "Draft:" by "[[Draft:" worked. For close of brackets could perhaps try replacing "[tab]2022" by "]]", but how enter tab character?
    • In AWB, make list by sourcing to "Links on page (only bluelinks)" and links on: User:Doncram/draftslist
    • then make some small change, i couldn't see how to fully automate & replace "{{reflist}}" by "*{{reflist}}", so i just inserted a "*" at top of article. Done until May 8, 2022 knock on wood.
done until 10/10/2023[edit]

Done again, bots wont start deletion again, avoid deletion until 10/10/2023, into calendar. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 06:35, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Draft space ones[edit]

  • Draft space was recently at 152, less 54 deleted = 98
  • Draft space at 147 total, less 54 deleted = 93 actively in Draft, as of 2022-09-05.
  • Draft space at 151 total, less 54 deleted = 97 actively in Draft, as of 2022-09-15. At least 5 new since 2022-09-05 so at least 1 promoted.
  • Draft space at 154 total, less 54 deleted = 100 actively in Draft, as of 2022-09-23. 2 were promoted so there were 5 new ones created.
  • Draft space at 158 total, less 54 deleted, less 6 submitted and under AfC review = 98 which could be addressed, as of 2022-10-6
The 6 at AfC review: Draft:Bates Log House, Draft:List of writers' halls of fame, Draft:St. Landry Clarion, Draft:List of swimming pools, Draft:Oakland, Union Parish, Louisiana, Draft:Swindler House (after checking most drafts and using km tagging)
  • Draft space at 163 total, less 52 deleted, less at least 6 submitted and under AFC review= 102 actively in Draft, as of 2022-12-25
The 7 at AfC review: Draft:List of writers' halls of fame, Draft:St. Landry Clarion, Draft:List of swimming pools, Draft:Oakland, Union Parish, Louisiana, Draft:Swindler House, Draft:Insurance Building (Ellsworth, Kansas), Draft:NOPSI New Orleans (after check last ones and search last 3500 edits back to 3 September for "submit" in edit summary)
  • Draft space at 163 total, less 52 deleted = 111 actively in Draft, as of 2023-01-06. Writers and Clarion still in AFC, other 5 have been accepted. I am not now trying to identify a number more that have been submitted. --Doncram (talk,contribs) 11:55, 6 January 2023 (UTC)
  • Draft space at 182 total, less 52 deleted = 130_ actively in Draft, as of 2023-06-05
  • Draft space at _ total, less _ deleted = _ actively in Draft, as of 2023-___

how many of the drafts are submitted to AFC[edit]

For workaround, use:

[[Kinneola mesa|k]]<!-- To AFC editor: please remove this admin/maint tag when article promoted to mainspace -->

and see the list by: Special:WhatLinksHere/Kinneola_mesa

Alternatively, could use AWB or other search on "u=doncram within AFC submission, e.g. {{AfC submission|||ts=20220927183537|u=Doncram|ns=118}} as appears in this AFC-submitted version of Draft:Oakland, Union Parish, Louisiana (going to Oakland, Union Parish, Louisiana) article.

FOLLOWING NOT WORKING: Because I felt I have a good number submitted to AFC, I have just created Category:Pending AfC submissions by Doncram to count/track. Current count (which updates) is 0 in the category. Oh, DannyBot is disabling them; i just made request to DannyS712 to exclude this category from bot removal. Compare number submitted vs. my total in Draft (from [https://xtools.wmflabs.org/pages/en.wikipedia.org/Doncram/118 this xtools report which shows total of Draftspace articles plus deleted past ones.

Well, even if bot is disabling, What links to Category:Pending AfC submissions by Doncram works! and shows those 5 right now, after i fixed one. --Doncram (talk) 00:47, 17 September 2022 (UTC)

Template:Draft categories is what takes a list of categories in a Draft out of functioning, or being targeted. (When this was created, it caused need to update the Draft no cat script, per Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_167#DRAFTNOCAT_fix (from looking at "What links here" for the Category:AfC submissions with categories. )

Note this AFC reply (in several editgs) by me at Draft Bates Log House, where longer-than-usual quote is questioned on copyright. Architect Korn article was difficult for AFC reviewers as a list of architectural works. Another difficult one is Draft:List of writers' halls of fame. These are types that are hard/different for AFC reviewers to evaluate.

Now I see there is CFD proceeding which has been going on, at Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2022_October_2#Category:Pending_AfC_submissions_by_Doncram, without informing me, about which I object. I requested copy with history there, to go to User:Doncram/Former category Pending AfC submissions by Doncram. I just copy-pasted current content (can't move it, and can't copy history) to User:Doncram/copy-pasted copy.

Doncram User space ones[edit]

That was all non-redirects I think.

refine "photos requested in STATE" system[edit]

How can it be more specific than all of state of Kentucky, which is what

Talk:Clinton County High School uses {{WikiProject United States |class=Stub |KY=yes |KY-importance=Low |importance=Low |map-needed=no |image-needed=yes |image-in=Clinton County, Kentucky |image-details=Image of school logo or photo of main entrance/other notable feature}} which puts that into more specific Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Clinton County, Kentucky

NRHP Talk:Adam Pence House has "{{reqphoto|in=Kentucky}} which puts it into Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Kentucky. Can that just be directly edited? Trying, i find that {{reqphoto|in=Lincoln County, Kentucky}} puts it into Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Lincoln County, Kentucky, but that was a redlink category.... There do exist similar categories, though, such as Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Mason County, Kentucky, which currently has three members. It must be fine to go ahead and create the Lincoln County, Kentucky category, following the Mason County one's example, to include just: {{possibly empty category}} and [[Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Kentucky|Lincoln County, Kentucky]].

So...

  • All the county categories could be created in advance, and be "possibly empty". The refinement to add a more specific county-level category to all NRHP photo requests could be done by a bot run probably, right?
  • Would doing that be helpful to anyone? Do potential photographers check these categories? Most long-term NRHP editors do not, but rather scan the NRHP county-list-articles or the wp:NRHPPROGRESS page's reports. Would it help non-U.S. editors or potential photographers somehow, like the German ones producing NRHP articles in the DE wikipedia?
  • It would be somewhat helpful perhaps if the NRHP infobox generator put the county into the suggested Talk page material.
  • For myself, anyhow, when I create a new Talk page, I can just start manually adding the county name. --Doncram (talk) 05:59, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

what is possible for indicating "more" or "better" photos wanted?[edit]

Ask at a village pump?

update blacklist of "image existence checker" tool[edit]

For example, at Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Kentucky, the Image Existence Checker applied to requested photoos in KY erroneously lists numerous NRHPs in KY that don't have photos (such as Adam Pence House and Adams House (Salvisa, Kentucky)) as having them. This is because there's an image in a NRHP navigation template such as Template:National Register of Historic Places. The image needs to be put into a "blacklist". The image name is what? Code in the template suggests to me it could be

Just searching on "National Register of Historic Places" suggests maybe it is "File:HistoricPlacesNationalRegisterPlaque.JPG"? Just tried adding that to blacklist, will see....maybe it needs to update overnight or something though. --Doncram (talk) 05:28, 26 August 2022 (UTC)

It worked right away, dropping those two examples from its output. Output includes Beckley Jackson House, correctly identified as actually having an image, despite being in Category:Wikipedia requested photographs in Kentucky. --Doncram (talk) 05:31, 26 August 2022 (UTC)
And the image appears at Portal:National Register of Historic Places. In the NRHP navigation template, the code "{{portal-inline|size=small|National Register of Historic Places}}" apparently brought that image in. --Doncram (talk) 18:47, 31 August 2022 (UTC)

single pile, double pile[edit]

  • Argh, about this. If two one-room boxes are stacked vertically, but offset, as in this modern architecture thing in Mexico (if it really had just two single-pen rooms), how many rooms deep is it? One, right? But no one would ever apply "single-pile".
  • If two one-room boxes are "stacked" horizontally, but offset, also no one would ever apply "single-pile". "Single-pile" only applies to one row of same-depth rooms. And, as in the definition of "Parallel", it may imply the mass has to be wider than it is deep, you can't have two deep boxes laid out like two joined pieces of a Kit Kat bar. --Doncram (talk) 23:35, 21 August 2022 (UTC)

Commons file moving[edit]

Category:Media_requiring_renaming:

Lists of preserved locomotives[edit]

Disadvantages and advantages eg tax incentives, and essays needed, came up with Shelby County and Shelbyville[edit]

  • Reasons for NRHP listing, perhaps table by state.
    • Tax incentives national; tax incentives that vary by state or locality?
    • One reason is for consideration in Federal, other projects, an example being the 124 NRHPs and also numerous NRHP-eligible sites given weight in highway routing study: "Environmental Overview / 65-71 Regional Connector / KYTC Item 5-564.00 / Bullitt, Henry, Jefferson, Nelson, Shelby, Spencer, & Oldham Counties / May 2, 2019: https://transportation.ky.gov/Planning/Planning%20Studies%20and%20Reports/65-71%20Appendix%20D%20-%20Environmental%20Overview%20and%20Screening.pdf. This is seriously important protection! But that list omits Snook House and Van B. Snook House at least, out of many 1988-listed ones, in Shelby county, why? NRIS includes coords for both, fairly accurate ones. Reason to have accurate location info, and value for Wikipedia editors having determined better coordinates! Equal weighting of the NRHPs given, extreme weight for one NHL in study area, it happens; more merit-based weighting, or considering of moveability, would improve, i wud think. How were archeological NRHP locations used in the process? Hypothesis: city of Shelby MRA (19xx?) + county of Shelby MRA (1987-88) had significant effect in eliminating option 4 near Shelbyville. Visually in 2019 figure 8A and 8, and borne out in File:NRHP_Kentucky_Map.svg Shelby had higher density than Henry, Oldham, and Spencer counties. And within Shelby density diffs too would have effect. Point NRHPs vs district ones, effects? For Draft:Swindler House, i developed: "It is in study area for routing of a new highway connecting Interstate 65 and Interstate 71 avoiding Louisville."[1]

References

  1. ^ Environmental Overview / 65-71 Regional Connector / KYTC Item 5-564.00 / Bullitt, Henry, Jefferson, Nelson, Shelby, Spencer, & Oldham Counties (PDF). May 2, 2019. And final report is at HDR; Palmer Engineering; HMB Professional Engineers, Inc.; Integrated Engineering; CRA Associates, Inc.; Corn Island Archaeology; Civil Design, Inc. (September 2020). 65-71 Regional Corridor Study / Final Report / Prepared for Kentucky Transportation Cabinet, Central Office, District 5 (PDF).

Though it properly omitted 2 listed but gone ones: Bird Octagonal Mule Barn and Bird's Nest (Shelby County, Kentucky).

    • Shelbyville MRA (1984)[1]
    • Shelby County MRA (1987)

References

  1. ^ Helen Powell (January 17, 1984). National Register of Historic Places Inventory-Nomination: Multiple Resource Area of Shelbyville. MRA included designation of 3 new districts and 8 individual properties. PDF includes Kentucky Historic Resources Inventories, maps, correspondence. Downloading may be slow.
  • One about photos not of, wud be helpful ere RFC.
  • NRHP naming. In recent editing, I recall it seemed 2 essays needed. One prompt was "Case_changes_by_Dicklyon" discussion at wt:NRHP on downcasing "Site" in names of archeological sites. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_National_Register_of_Historic_Places#Case_changes_by_Dicklyon Permalink to the wt:NRHP page which has discussion 21 July to 27 July and no further updates through now, August 12. IMO, NRHP naming is a naming. It has guidelines on selecting a "best" name. The NRHP name usually sticks. More.
  • The other essay topic would be about "super bullies", how widespread across topic areas, editors, and time that can be, how corrosive of community, how individual newish editors understandably perceive themselves being personally attacked, or personally focused upon, even if prolific super editor is giving equal (mean-spirited) treatment everywhere. How the 2018(?) WMF foundation action was so welcome, refreshing, provided hope, but didn't play out well? --Doncram (talk) 00:52, 13 August 2022 (UTC)

GNIS[edit]

Propose naming of Oakland, Union Parish and 2 cemeteries: union parish LDS geneology

other incl rfa[edit]

Hmm, maybe the top-of-edit-window stuff also useful for insrting a link, rather than repeatedly selecting the square brackets characters.
Or starting a table:
Caption text
Header text Header text Header text
Example Example Example
Example Example Example
For

Block quote

And other insertions, select scroll-down showing “insert”, change to “wiki markup”?
Doncram (talk) 19:42, 28 April 2022 (UTC)

in 2021[edit]

in 2020[edit]

f*National Registry of the Historic Hotels of America in ps.

past[edit]

The goal would be to get downloads of databases, and hopefully additional resources like coordinates for sites and urls for documents, and use them to generate good list-articles that would provide basic coverage of all the state-level sites. Each list-article row should perhaps include a properly formed reference to the state register page for each item and to any more specific documents available. The project should support easier generation of articles, e.g. by providing standardized infoboxes/articles drafts and references, perhaps in copy-paste-ready form akin to what U.S. editor User:Elkman provides at an independent-from-wikipedia website.

There are a few people who could participate:

  • obviously those who've developed Australia historic sites list-articles, several participants here at AWNB would be needed, including to get permissions and get the databases which programmers would use
  • perhaps German-i-think User:Multichill who standardized the U.S. NRHP list-articles so that they could be translated to other language wikipedias, and has done major other programming on European and other list-articles, and has majorly supported Wikipedia Loves Monuments photo drives. If he would be willing to give some time.
  • perhaps User:Magicpiano who has been maintaining and developing the wp:NRHPPROGRESS page and a number of related tools/programs using Javascript.
  • perhaps User:Tgeo (?) who i notice has been responding to programming requests at wt:HSITES
  • perhaps other programmer(s) could be found
  • i would have some major suggestions towards taking advantage of U.S. NRHP list-articles experience, and avoiding some problems.

From the outside, I don't think the decision problems are too hard to handle. It would take a long time to get done, but perhaps not too much programming effort, and I think it would be very beneficial. It could attract wide readership and some participation from the public, e.g. to submit up photos during each year's Wikipedia loves Monuments drive, during which period there would be an easy-to-use "upload photo" button at each list-article row not already having a pic.

{{Infobox NRHP | name = | nrhp_type = | image = | caption = | location= [[Crystal, Colorado]] | coordinates = {{coord||||N||||W|display=inline,title}} | locmapin = Colorado#USA | architecture = | added = | area = less than one acre | refnum = <ref name="nris">{{}}</ref> }} ==See also== *[[National Register of Historic Places listings in Gunnison County, Colorado]] ==References== {{reflist}} ==External links== {{commons category|}} {{National Register of Historic Places}} [[Category:National Register of Historic Places in Gunnison County, Colorado]] {{Colorado-NRHP-stub}}

current(ish) issues[edit]

find my articles in userspace and in draftspace[edit]

[full copy of question asked and answered 5/17/2021] Hi Teahousers, glad you're here doing what you do. Quick (i hope) questions:

  1. How can I see a list of articles in my userspace? I know this can be done somehow, maybe even from navigating links on the left-hand-side of my interface, but i never recorded how.
  2. Similarly, is there some easy way to see all articles started by me which are in Draftspace. Or possibly even all Draftspace articles edited by me. I have a lot out there which I have not indexed/tracked.

Thanks in advance! Please ping me in reply if possible. Doncram (talk) 15:33, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

@Doncram: For #1, put prefix:User:Doncram directly in the search box, or alternatively, use Special:PrefixIndex. For #2, try XTools. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 15:40, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
@Doncram: Missed a part of your question. The XTools link above is for draftspace articles you created. This link is a tally of all your edits in the draftspace. Note that drafts that have since been moved won't show up here. XTools has a lot of other cool statistics for you to play around as well. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 15:51, 17 May 2021 (UTC)
(e/c) Hi Doncram. If you go to your contributions, you will find a link at the bottom of the page labeled "Articles created", which will result in this search playing out. If you want to isolate pages you've created in a different namespace, such as the draft namespace, you can go directly to the tool, here, enter your username and change the default from "Main" to draft, resulting in this search of article created by you as drafts. To permanently have a link to that search, you can save that link at your userpage.

Although you could use this tool to find pages in your userspace as well, another option is to go to the same set of contribution links, and click on "Subpages", which will result in this prefix index search playing out, showing all pages existing in your userspace. If you might have created some subpages in your user talk namespace, you can change the search parameter to "User talk". Best regards--Fuhghettaboutit (talk) 15:52, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Wow, thanks, that answers all my questions! Am copying these responses to where I will be able to find them. I was right there is a "subpages" link to select somewhere, but i could never find it, it seems bizarre to me that it shows up when select "contributions" (at least when at my own userpage?). Thanks for all the info. It helps me right away; i do have a lot of articles in Draft space that I want to get back to, besides when getting notified they're up for G7(?) deletion. --Doncram (talk) 19:34, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Interactions with User:Fram, often unpleasant, as at Draft talk:James Coolidge Octagon House, including about how they can obtain block. Here is interaction timeline in 2022 up to August 5. --Doncram (talk) 15:28, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Simple link from commons category to Wikipedia page of same topic[edit]

[Copied from my Q & others' A's at Commons help, at here as of 8/2022 I have found myself putting notes like "This is about [[w:Moravia Union Cemetery]]" into commons Category:Moravia Union Cemetery, and similarly, because it is immediately helpful for my own navigating back and forth between Wikipedia article and corresponding Commons category, as i develop both. In the Wikipedia article, the link to Commons cat is by "template:Commons category-inline|Moravia Union Cemetery" or similar. Surely there is a standard template for going from Commons category to Wikipedia article? (But apparently that is neither "template:about" nor "template:main", which have different uses.) Pls ping me in any reply. Thanks in advance! --Doncram (talk) 17:18, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I think the usual approach is to use the sitelinks from Wikidata, which appear both in the "In Wikipedia" category on the left of the page (assuming the standard skin) and in the {{Wikidata Infobox}} on the right in the form of the "Wikipedia" link near the top. There do seem to be a selection of templates for linking to Wikipedias as well. Ones I've found with a quick search are {{On Wikipedia}}, {{Mainw}}, and {{See also w}}. --bjh21 (talk) 19:36, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
@Doncram: A problem with linking via Wikidata is that Wikidata links Commons categories to Wikipedia categories when the latter exist. Then there will not be a sitelink to the Commons category from the Wikipedia article, nor vice versa. There was some discussion about this when Wikidata was introduced on Commons, but consistency was valued higher than usability. There may still be some tools (including templates) to overcome this. –LPfi (talk) 12:42, 3 August 2022 (UTC)
You could use Template:Mainw, in use at Category:Rolls-Royce Merlin. Template:En does a similar thing. Nimbus227 (talk) 17:46, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

How get AWB to select certain NRHP-listed schools in Colorado? (copied from AWB tasks page[edit]

Hi there... I haven't used AutoWikiBrowser/AWB for years, but just downloaded it and tried it without success. What am I doing wrong? What I want to do is replace the string "http://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NRHP/Text/64500075.pdf" or similar by "https://catalog.archives.gov/id/84127661", and make some manual edits also, in perhaps 100 articles on historic schoolhouses in Colorado. I applied "Make list" to identify the 2638 or so articles within 5 recursive levels of Category:National Register of Historic Places in Colorado. I set Skip to omit articles where text Doesn't contain: "Rural School Buildings in Colorado" (after I first tried setting Skip to where text Doesn't contain: "64500075.pdf", which also failed). I did not put quote marks into the field, should i have? And it will Skip if Page doesn't exist. And then I ran it by selecting Start tab and hitting Start button. It just goes through the list without pausing on any page, while I know it should stop on some pages like "Gas Creek School" and "Coates Creek Schoolhouse". What am I missing, why doesn't it stop?

And also, I don't see how to use the replace function which is apparently under Options / Find and replace. I don't see where to enter the text string to be replaced or where to enter the text to be replaced. I would like for the full string replacement to be done on a given page, with it still allowing me to make other manual changes. Help!

Thanks in advance for any advice offered. :) --Doncram (talk) 00:10, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

Update: It partly works, I find, after I further tried two changes:

  • changing my default edit summary so that it did not use quote marks or a semi-colon. My edit summary was something like: 'fix link to MPS "Rural Schools in Colorado"; perhaps other edits too', which I changed to 'fix link to MPS Rural Schools in Colorado and perhaps other edits too'. Though I don't see how or my that would matter. And
  • changing Options to turn off the three types of automatic changes: "Auto tag", "Apply general fixes", and "Unicodify whole page" (though I thought those would just be supplemental changes to be done on a page meeting my criteria, and I believe it is supposed to be good to make those changes in the same edit as a more substantial change, like I am "supposed to" have those done.

Now it stopped on Coates Creek Schoolhouse which I just manually edited. And I let it run to find some more and did a few more edits, but then quit leaving more yet to be addressed. Why did it choose to stop on the right pages now? And still, how can i set up the find and replace? --Doncram (talk) 00:21, 6 November 2021 (UTC)

So my first concern is that you haven't figured out how to do the find and replace, because that is the heart of this task. So you want to set the check mark by "Find and replace" and then click on "Normal settings". Enter just the old URL you are trying to replace as the "Find" column on the first line. Then put the new URL on the same line in the "Replace with" column. That's it, just click OK. Once you are back at the Options tab, check the box to "Skip if no replacement". Under the Skip tab, make sure the bottom radio button for "doesn't exist" is selected, and deselect any of the checkboxes that might be selected by default - they can really only screw up your run. Hit start and use the "Skip" and "Save" buttons to make the changes as each page loads up. It should only stop on the pages that actually have the old URL on it, and you'll be able to make your own judgement whether to replace on that page or not. VanIsaac, MPLL contWpWS 00:38, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
Well, I still don't get what made it start stopping on the right pages. This edit from AWB shows that the default summary's usage of semi-colon and quotes doesn't seem to matter. And it is working when the three default Automatic changes are left on. But thank you very much for the instruction on how to do the search and replace! It is working great. :) --Doncram (talk) 01:35, 6 November 2021 (UTC)
@Doncram: Another thing you can do is go to Options > Preferences and select "Enable Logging". After you process a list, you can look at the "Logs" tab to see why AWB skipped a given article, and then tweak your settings appropriately. Happy editing! GoingBatty (talk) 16:21, 8 November 2021 (UTC)

museum associations and/or KDRMA[edit]

I requested and got copy of deleted KDRMA article from AFD closer.

Hi, could you please "refund" to me a full copy (with edit history) of Kane-DuPage Regional Museum Association to my userspace. This relates to Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Kane-DuPage Regional Museum Association which you closed "delete". I want to consider developing it better, which User:RoySmith suggested i might do, or perhaps to use in creating a different page about museum associations that have "passport" / shared admission/marketing programs, more generally. There exists a category about them, but no main page about them. Which could give the KDRMA as an example, whether or not it has a separate article. I'm not sure, i'd like to consider that.--Doncram (talk) 14:55, 12 September 2019 (UTC)
@Doncram: Glad to! You'll find it at User:Doncram/Kane-DuPage Regional Museum Association. Thanks for all your work! 78.26 (spin me / revolutions) 15:17, 12 September 2019 (UTC)

tone stuff[edit]

Mentions by Blueraspberry and some by Colin in this ANI page, about preference for positive tone in MED stuff, undermining thereof, AI approaches to characterizing tone, theory about big public spaces needing to be positive, smaller ones where editors self-select to a tone they like, more interesting stuff. Also link to Tone policing, which seems different. --Doncram (talk) 02:05, 7 December 2019 (UTC)

essay: top-down or bottom-up?[edit]

Which is better for development of extensive list-systems like that for the NRHPs in the U.S.? Sure, go ahead and list out all the members. Like Australia historic sites are doing? But then what? a) Develop those list-articles, make them better, create short descriptions with sources for each? e.g. National Register of Historic Places listings in Waukesha County, Wisconsin, or b) create short articles, with sources, and hope later to bring back summaries/excerpts of relatively interesting factoids (then not needing sources in those summaries)? Argument for A, argument for B. Probably real advantages for both. A better for not having ridiculously stubby articles? wp:TOPDOWNORBOTTOMUP? wp:TopDownOrBottonUp? --Doncram (talk) 06:16, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

sort of started at Wikipedia talk:Articles for deletion/Methodist churches in Leicester#further lists to AFD after this AFD is closed: top-down vs. bottom-up --Doncram (talk) 20:42, 10 February 2020 (UTC)

notability of news media[edit]

Per discussion in Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Jackson Herald, me and E.M. Gregory, where someone disagreeing about the need for it helps to prove the point of its need. --Doncram (talk) 23:55, 8 July 2019 (UTC)

In this edit, editor Peteforsyth called attention to me and Rosiestep about previous essay/notability guideline draft, at Wikipedia:WikiProject Newspapers/Notability. --Doncram (talk) 19:01, 11 November 2019 (UTC)

And Cullen328. What is difference in their M.O.'s? Both provide substantial sourcing into AFDs, right? --Doncram (talk) 06:17, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

And Cunard. [User talk:Cunard#New format for AfD]. Theirs have been long, were objected to at ANI i think, because they were so effective and no deletionist liked it when C showed up, IMHO. --Doncram (talk) 06:28, 5 November 2019 (UTC)

And Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Retford Times suggests wp:ITSANOLDNEWSPAPER. --Doncram (talk) 05:26, 1 February 2021 (UTC) Saying the others' arguments were like wp:ITSACASTLE, and agreed, all votes were Keep.--Doncram (talk) 07:25, 14 May 2022 (UTC)

NM SHPO correspondence[edit]

  • Within National Register of Historic Places listings in Mora County, New Mexico, various listings c.1990, including houses and 3 historic districts including Mora Historic District, probably should not have been "address restricted". Similar others noted wp:NRIS info issues NM. Correspond to Santa Fe office to address all the NM issues? --Doncram (talk) 15:32, 17 July 2019 (UTC)
  • Camino Real in New Mexico: about 14 out of about 16 are "Address Restricted", inappropriately IMO, perhaps to a point of being completely nonsensical. This is a public roadway, part of modern streets systems, well-known for the most part. Though perhaps there may be less-known portions in remote areas, I am not sure. I know of no evidence that any portion could be damaged in any way by more clarity. --Doncram (talk) 21:03, 10 August 2019 (UTC)

bridges lists links[edit]

Finish links to/from List of bridges in the United States vs. NRHP bridges lists

Cape May Brewing Company[edit]

I requested restoration of Cape May Brewing Company article to mainspace or to my userspace, so that I may develop it using sources identified in deletion review plus sources already in article or mentioned in its AFD, Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Cape May Brewing Company. It seems the article was perhaps too promotional, but many editors including deletion review closer suggested it could be re-established at least if too-promo-ish-ness is overcome. Was restored to: User:Doncram/Cape May Brewing Company by User:Hut 8.5. --doncram 7/4/2019

Redpath Chautauqua etc[edit]

Develop articles redlinked from Louise Massey House, including for Redpath Chautauqua or Red Path Chautauqua, which is quite a big/important topic. Link to/from Chautauqua / Chautauqua movement. Also possibly The Westerners, other. --Doncram (talk) 18:11, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

Camp Interlaken / Camp Coniston[edit]

User:Doncram/Camp Interlaken, revisit, add more about Camp Coniston YMCA camp and connection to Churchill not-winston. Rebated to me upon [9].--Doncram (talk) 22:55, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Mormon churches, tabernacle architecture[edit]

  • Trend to use non-Mormon architects not completely successful; several examples where created, looked bad to me, and were not kept.
  • "The Randolph Tabernacle, constructed between 1898 and 1914 by members of the

Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, is architecturally significant as the best example of Victorian Eclectic religious architecture both in the town of Randolph and in Rich County. Though its design, materials and construction were provided primarily through local efforts, the building reflects the IDS church-wide trend at that time toward more eclectic and expressive styles than those used in either previous or subsequent periods. Though not yet fully understood, that architectural trend has been described as symbolizing the concurrent shift of the IDS church from an attitude of isolationism' to an embracing of national ideas." --Randolph Tabernacle NRHP doc.

See also NRHP list links[edit]

I just did See also links for all municipalities in western Puerto Rico, to link to the corresponding NRHP list-table, per my comments with The Eloquent Peasant. Also do:

--Doncram (talk) 18:07, 25 June 2019 (UTC)

industrial parks[edit]

Was deleted at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/List of industrial parks by size, January 2919, i requested & got it restored ( second request, oops, at very bottom). At User:Doncram/List of industrial parks now. Next:

--Doncram (talk) 21:45, 7 June 2019 (UTC)

wv regions[edit]

Pennsylvania interchanges[edit]

User:Doncram/Interchanges in Pennsylvania is copy in my userspace of deleted article, per the bottom comment here at AFD closer's page and Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Interchanges in Pennsylvania. There is material to be merged to national list-article, and it might be moved to Interchanges in Pennsylvania and redirected to the national page, if not restored as a separate article (if it has more sources and development). --Doncram (talk) 21:48, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

User talk:Ritchie333/Archive 90#Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Interchanges in Pennsylvania was February discussion with closer, see their comment. --Doncram (talk) 21:54, 27 May 2019 (UTC)

Gallery formating[edit]

Gallery with mode=packed as at Tripp County Veteran's Memorial, shown to me by User:MB and done at Manthey Barn too, instead of my usual stacking up of thumb: ==Gallery== <gallery mode=packed> File:Manthey barn (Tripp Co SD) from E 1.JPG File:Manthey barn (Tripp Co SD) from E 2 long.JPG </gallery> 

==Gallery==

<gallery mode=packed> File:Manthey barn (Tripp Co SD) from E 1.JPG File:Manthey barn (Tripp Co SD) from E 2 long.JPG </gallery>

photos not of, photo quality, photo requests[edit]

For Hugo Public Library (new article now) there was a photo of the modern replacement in the NRHP county list-article since 2016 (added by this edit in 2016 by User:Michael Barera (sp?). I removed that from the list-article by this edit. It turns out the old, NRHP-listed building still exists, and could have been photographed if anyone had known a photo was needed. --Doncram (talk) 21:58, 1 October 2019 (UTC)

Pic of house next door

A photo contributed in 2014 was incorrectly believed to be of this house. It covered the house next door, at 1233, not 1231, Paseo de Peralta, in Santa Fe. I am requesting it to be renamed at Commons. Actually you can see a tiny bit of the Digneo-Valdes House in the left of the photo. :) I removed it to the Talk page. --Doncram (talk) 14:30, 9 August 2019 (UTC)

Photo featuring 2001-02 addition of elevator entranceway, on rear of Air Science building on New Mexico State University campus. Original front facade survives, facing other way. :(
Photo from 2012

Diff of Doncram removing photo of chainlink fence and shrubberies, where photo of the hidden hacienda is wanted, would probably require permission of owner to go onto property. This photo by User:Roland Penttila in 2012. New article Juan Cristobal Armijo Homestead includes the photo, but not in the NRHP infobox, with caption about the fact of hacienda being hidden.

Photos not of the NRHP-listed resource: [10]. Other October 20, 2018 edits. Monticello (Cynthiana, Kentucky)

As opposed to Tamanoeconomico uploading old pic, e.g. for Marion Allsup House. --Doncram (talk) 05:00, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
As an exception, garbage cans as categorized at commons, i completely dropped. a different editor disagreed, restored garbage cans pic, and added it to HD article that i created. Note commons category "Trash cans in the United States" added by photo uploader in the upload edit.
this edit removes a pic for John McGee House of a plaque, not the house, not related to most other photo issues.
[:File:Elias Rymill House from west.jpg], funny, in National Register of Historic Places listings in Bourbon County, Kentucky.
"why was this user unbannerd?", one of 20 October 2018 edits, restored [:File:Bayless Quarters through the trees.jpg]. Which i had previously removed to the article i created for the property, noting there that the house behind the trees was "A building on the property, not the National Register-listed quarters", which has not been disputed. In the list-article, i had put in hidden comment <!---- pic of the National Register contributing building(s) wanted --->. User:Christopher L. Riley later (?) visited the county, taking pics on August 2018, contributed a number of pics for the county, replacing some existing ones in edits of Nov 2018 and Jan 2019. Reasonable to think they might have been misdirected to not seek needed photos where there appeared to be coverage already. James Kiser House, Hopkins House (North Middletown, Kentucky) (currently redlinks) there also have pics merely of site, not of NRHP-listed buildings, need removal from list-article when i create separate articles for them. (as of 15 Apr 2019).
This Bayless quarters came up in some ANI incident, I think it was.
And i have again removed that pic not of the slave quarters. Hard to drive a wooden stake into these things. Hopefully these 2 edits by me removing NRHP identifiers and requesting name change over at Commons will do the trick. Maybe removing NRHP numbers etc. from pics of vacant-lots-not-the-NRHP-building is necessary everywhere else? --Doncram (talk) 05:49, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
The photo has not been restored, yay. Perhaps the ANI incident could be found with searching on the old file name before it was renamed at Commons. --Doncram (talk) 17:10, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Unrelated removal by me of a photo not of the NRHP-listed building in Montana, for Forkenbrock Funeral Home, 26 April 2019.
2009 addition by nyttend of a historic photo into the infobox and 2012 later addition of a photo of the site of former school outside the infobox, yahoo.
old photo newly uploaded by Ipoellet, for a demolished structure in AZ
june 18, 2018 edits: [11].
Feb 2019 edits too
a diff editor adding pic of replacement bridge outside infobox. I just removed it from county list article. It was added 2016 there by same editor, and renamed. There are historic pics inlist-article incl. this PA state one with assertion it is regarded as in public domain by PA
  • It seems to me that an RFC to be closed by non-involved admin would be only approach forward, to get any discussion and decision, on photos not of the subject.
Photo titled "Old Union School in Coshocton.jpg", which is not a photo of the school
On the other hand Nyttend did add caption "front of the school" in this edit in 2017, perhaps to muddy waters in potentially continuing dispute, related to DRVs of 2013 (Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2013 February 11, Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2013 February 10, and arbitration case then in progress (see workshop page)). Or perhaps they did come to actually believe it was the school, and the front of it (but that seems implausible as what school has no front door?, among other implausibilities). --Doncram (talk) 12:47, 15 August 2022 (UTC)
Evidence at talk page was strong that the photo was incorrect. In 2022, NRHP doc is now available at NARA, conclusively proves photo is not of the school. Doc available at https://catalog.archives.gov/id/71987271 by very slow download. Reference incorporating it added just now by me to the article. The incorrect photo remains in the county list-article at this point. --Doncram (talk) 17:10, 14 August 2022 (UTC)
Eagles Temple (Akron, Ohio) has photo not of.
  • Photo quality: File:Audubon_School_in_Henderson.jpg of Audubon School in Henderson KY is merely a view of end of building, had effect of cutting off quest for pics, and since then the school, whose front facade appears quite grand in Google streetview imagery from 2019, has been demolished. 5 black & white photos in NRHP registration show more, though aren't great. It woulda been good to get a good set of pics documenting the place, esp. the full Romanesque front. Rats. --Doncram (talk) 12:38, 23 August 2022 (UTC)

address restricted images and locations[edit]

Some/many like images. Long slow edit war going on?

  • Removal of address restricted images, as fighting "censorship" and "statistics-skewing", e.g. this diff for Dona Ana County, New Mexico. Mixed with other plausibly okay revisions to date presentation, etc. I am not sure if "censorship" is about pics? The "statistics-skewing" can only be about wp:NRHPPROGRESS reporting which is non-official, non-mainspace. No rewards, recognition there.
  • a January 2019 removal example, with edit summary saying list-article is not 100 percent illustrated, please don't try to make it seem so. Well, it depends on your perspective. Should a Wikiproject work page, and perception that editors might be trying to game that, drive what is presented in mainspace? --Doncram (talk) 00:18, 11 November 2019 (UTC)
  • Example this diff labelled "removing vandalism" about location of an address restricted site on Oahu. Apparently re-adding a source which identifies the location, removing accurate assertion of "Address restricted" by NRIS/NRHP. --Doncram (talk) 20:58, 18 November 2019 (UTC)
That was a reversion of this edit in 2015(?) by Fortguy. --Doncram (talk) 21:39, 18 November 2019 (UTC)

similar own lists[edit]

  • this, one of many driving away(?) Ohconfucious good date fixes and dash fixes, why?
  • "don't deviate from NRIS' why? better ship name, not all caps.
  • Buckridge Ranch House is 5 miles from Point Arena, why suppress "vic." or "vicinity" as accurate qualification in same Mendocino list?
  • [12] assertion that "vicinity" impairs sorting of locations; i disagree.

cats[edit]

cats diff along with this non-discussion at Talk about importing a sentence. which still exists there. Was added there in this diff, opaque note 21 jan 2009. No discussion in archive? See section '"Look before you leap" is inaccurate'. Preceded by 'PROPOSAL: A moratorium and a '. B, N at this and that link/vers link.

"Because I'd ask whether we are seriously considering indeffing someone for creating a duplicate category. Drmies" within wp:ANI as of 4/15/2020.

categories stuff[edit]

sample references[edit]

wp:NPSFocus type reference:<ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=}}|title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: |publisher=[[National Park Service]]|author= |date= |accessdate=May 22, 2024}} With {{NRHP url|id=|photos=y|title=photos}}.</ref>

Historic districts with NPSFocus type reference:

{{Under construction|date=May 22, 2024}} |coordinates={{coord||source:NOTNRIS2013a|display=inline,title}} The ''' Historic District''' in [[, Georgia]] is a {{convert||acre|ha}} [[historic district (United States)|historic district]] which was listed on the [[National Register of Historic Places]] in 19. The listing included [[contributing buildings]], [[contributing structures]], and [[contributing sites]].<ref name=nris/> [[Category:NRHP in progress|GA]] [[Category:Historic districts on the National Register of Historic Places in Georgia (U.S. state)]]

The ''' ''' is a [[historic district (United States)|historic district]] which was listed on the [[National Register of Historic Places]] in .<ref name=nris/>

The {{convert||acre|ha}} listed area included [[contributing buildings]] and contributing structures and contributing sites. <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=}}|title=National Register of Historic Places Registration: |publisher=[[National Park Service]]|author= |date= |accessdate=May 22, 2024}} With {{NRHP url|id=|photos=y|title=photos from }}.</ref>

Kalispell, Montana MPS ones: <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|title=National Register of Historic Places Continuation: |url={{NRHP url|id= }}|publisher=[[National Park Service]]|accessdate=May 22, 2024|author=Kathy McKay |date=June 1993}}</ref><ref name=mps>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=64500341}} |title=National Register of Historic Places Multiple Property Documentation: Historic and Architectural Properties of Kalispell, Montana|publisher=[[National Park Service]] |author=Kathy McKay |date=June 1993 |accessdate=May 22, 2024}}</ref>

Jerome County, Idaho ones:
The ''' ''', near [[Jerome, Idaho]], is a [[lava rock]] structure built in 19. It was listed on the [[National Register of Historic Places]] in 1983.<ref name=nris/> <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=}}|title=Idaho State Historical Society Inventory: Ben Laughlin Water Tank House-Garage|publisher=[[National Park Service]]|author= |date=1983 |accessdate=May 22, 2024}} With {{NRHP url|id=|photos=y|title=photo from 1979}}.</ref>
[[Category:Lava rock buildings and structures]]

Featured property type: <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url= |title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: |publisher=[[National Park Service]]|author= |date= |accessdate=May 22, 2024}} With photos.</ref>

Virgin Islands Talk page:
{{WikiProject National Register of Historic Places|class=stub|importance=low}}
{{WikiProject Caribbean|class=stub|importance=low|United States Virgin Islands=yes|United States Virgin Islands-importance=low}}
{{WikiProject United States Territories|class=stub|importance=low}}
{{reqphoto|in=the United States Virgin Islands}}

National Archives Catalog version: To reference the NRHP document you have found, you need a permalink to the document, which is by use of the "National Archives Identifier" for the property. This is a different number than the NRHP reference number. E.g. for Muskegon Historic District, having reference number 72000647, the archives identifier is 25340169. You can see this number in the results from searching by the refnum. The NRHP document for that property is at permalink https://catalog.archives.gov/id/25340169. A model reference for cut-and-paste usage is: <ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url=https://catalog.archives.gov/id/ |title=National Register of Historic Places Registration: |publisher=National Archives |author= |date= | accessdate=May 22, 2024 }} {{NationalArchivesNote}}</ref>

Louisiana version (and Louisiana search site): <ref name=ladoc>{{cite web|url=http://www.crt.state.la.us/dataprojects/hp/nhl/attachments/ |title= |publisher=State of Louisiana's Division of Historic Preservation |author= |date= |accessdate=May 22, 2024 }} with [http://www.crt.state.la.us/dataprojects/hp/nhl/view.asp?ID= photos and maps]</ref>

| mpsub = {{NRHP url|id=64x00xxx|title= MPS}}

<ref name=mps>{{cite web|url={{NRHP url|id=64}} |title=National Register of Historic Places Multiple Property Documentation: |publisher=[[National Park Service]] |author= |date= |accessdate=May 22, 2024 }}</ref>

==External links== * {{Commons category-inline|Tifton Commercial Historic District}}

<ref name=nrhpdoc>{{cite web|url= |title=National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: |publisher=National Archives |author= |date= }} (accessible by searching within [https://catalog.archives.gov/id/40972550 National Archives Catalog])</ref>

It is a two-story brick building, 80 by 155 feet (24 m × 47 m), with Classical Revival features:
{{convert|80|x|155|ft|m|}}

  1. List item 1
  2. List item 2
  4. List item 2851, using #<li value="2851"> per NationalRegisterBot updating NRIS-only list

{{convert|NNNN|acre}} <- placeholder for area, displays nothing, per Johnuniq edit at Ochlocknee Missionary Baptist Church and Cemetery. Can this be done for {{coord}} too?

Classical Revival vs. Neoclassical[edit]

Very odd, reply but instant deletion: here. --doncram 05:48, 21 June 2017 (UTC)

issue of multiple outgoing links looking the same[edit]

About NRHP list-articles, but this AFD Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/94th_Regiment_of_Foot_(disambiguation) is an example where multiple links looking same, caused a reader/editor to (reasonably) assume they went to same target and that the disambiguation page is bad. Same for readers at a list-article. It is a major principle in MOS:DAB(?) that the links must show different targets, not appear to be the same by pipelinking. --doncram 05:00, 18 April 2017 (UTC)

add 2020 diff, this show s determination I guess. --Doncram (talk) 06:33, 1 February 2021 (UTC)

when NRHP articles not wanted[edit]

Or "Opting out of NRHP coverage" or "Choosing not to cover NRHP listings".

E.g. perhaps for Brunswick Old Town listed in Glynn County, Georgia, it seems reasonable to believe that the topic is NOT wikipedia-notable and/or we otherwise don't want to call for an article. The {{NRHP row}} template doesn't currently allow for that... it needs a no-link=yes option and an id="Brunswick Old Town" option, so as to allow the name "Brunswick Old Town" to show in black text rather than wikilinked, and for Brunswick Old Town (currently a redirect) to link to an anchor in the list-article.

I would propose this for items in some town-wide MPS listings, e.g. for some/many of the 28 articles in Jerome County, Idaho, where just a short Idaho State Historical Society inventory sheet is available and little more is likely to emerge, ever. But if the suitable list-article is in fact the NRHP county or city list-article, currently we can't implement that, some change to template:NRHP row is needed. And perhaps some tweaking of the NRHPPROGRESS-related scripts is needed, though having a redirect back to the list-article seems to be understood as having a stub article (and illustrated is based on the county-list-table anyhow). You don't have to agree specificly about Jerome County ones...there are other MPS sets of articles where there is even less I think.

For some MPS topic areas, a list-article jointly covering them does as well or better than individual articles can, e.g. Historic fire stations of Birmingham, Alabama. For that one, redirects go to its rows. And recall there are 42Dc684 and many other sites in Duchesne County, Utah which redirect to a separate article on Nine Mile Canyon.

Redirecting back to the county list-article may be appropriate for some address-restricted archeological sites where little or nothing is known, e.g. some indian hogan in North Dakota or Montana which i encountered, where there's only a hint that some hogan or other structure once existed back in 1970 or so within a national historic site or some park or reserve or indian reservation.

Likewise about when photos not wanted. Perhaps nothing should display, because I recall past discussions about placeholder images where some/many dislike those. But still an invisible code for the image= line, e.g. image=notwanted, can be detected and used in the NRHPPROGRESS system. --doncram 01:55, 10 September 2017 (UTC)

Churning going on: this and other South Carolina edits removing the no-image-wanted image, noticed in day's change of SC standing in wp:NRHPPROGRESS. Contrast to increase in some upper midwest state's photo coverage reported, a month or two or three ago, due to opposite changes by a different editor. Frustrating/unpleasant/out-of-control seeming.

issue of PD for NRHP photos[edit]

When submitted, should be put into public domain. National Register should require.

unreadable NPS documents issue[edit]

"National Historic Landmark Nomination: Sotterley". National Park Service. Retrieved March 6, 2017. with 16 photos from 1998

Notes

copyright non-issues[edit]

  • diff removing a long quote, asserting it was a potential copyvio]. I disagree about that and a bunch of others' assertions over the years. Address by some RFC or what? Reasons:
  • There has NEVER been any copyvio claim against Wikipedia or any of us.
  • Backing away from assertion of use is a mistake, counter to freeware movement. Being "conservative" is not good.
  • Maryland, explicitly, and many/most believe they have put into public domain, and mean to. There is no assertion/wish to retain ownership.
  • The percentage of article is mistakenly thought to be relevant, while it is not; percentage of source could be. Supreme court case(s). Nature of copyright law is tension/balance between forces.

OTOH, I personally have found it convenient that copyright issues not well understood, towards encouraging development of . But long quotes are valid. Are recommended especially:

    • technical stuff, not generally known or explained elsewhere, where rewording would surely lose info and introduce inaccuracy, e.g. Priestly's Hydraulic Ram article
    • eloquent wording, far better to quote and credit author directly

Avoid close paraphrasing which is plagiarism and IMHO far worse, and avoid changing meanings (common, and even farther worse). Go back to old and derogatory accusations, or probably not.

[Much later, now in January 2021]: Here is what I just wrote trying to succinctly explain, in an AFC comment (which was explicitly "thanked" by Theroadislong (who had questioned the use of longish quotes) and was taken as acceptable/convincing by Bkissin who then accepted the article):

Theroadislong, Bkissin, in response, the situation for you as AFC editors is perhaps not obvious. There is nothing wrong, in general, with usage of quotes, as is done routinely in Featured articles. If you wanna suggest copyvio or plagiarism, either charge would not be valid at all. Explicit quotes are not plagiarism at all at all at all. Also copyvio is not present though it is a grayer area for persons not experienced in this area. What is copyvio depends on usage/practice/court rulings; and there is no precedent ever for any legal complaint against quoting a NRHP nomination document. That said, the truth is that NRHP nomination documents are generally not Public Domain (PD) unless they were works written by U.S. government officials (not the case here). It is arguable by some (not me), that longish quotes are not preferred. However the quoting is less than 10 percent of the source document, and there are U.S. supreme court ruling(s) that quotes of less than 10 percent are generally okay, even for what might be termed commercial, for-profit works. Here, further, there is/was little/no expectation on the part of document authors that the writing had any value at all and/or would be copyright protected. So, briefly, this is okay. A further consideration could be AFC/Wikipedia editors' personal _preferences_ on extent of quoting. You could prefer less quoting. And, for a Featured Article, I would agree. But this is just a stub, being put out there because it is a highly important topic. If you yourself want to reword the material and take it out of quotes, have at it. But it is okay as is. Further, by the way, I have added another source per Bkissin's preference. --Doncram (talk) 23:33, 10 January 2022 (UTC)}}

--Doncram (talk) 16:24, 11 January 2022 (UTC)

NRIS-only batches[edit]

in October 2019, my fixing 2018 vandalism(?) by another NRHP editor, which had reversed my 2016 fixing up of an NRIS-only article started earlier by a different person. Bizarre.

AWB strategy for adding photos links (to record into wp:NRHPhelp?): copyied/adapted from my comments at User talk:Farragutful? [I applied AWB to add photo links by setting

  • for source, select "links on page (only bluelinks)" and
  • links on=National Register of Historic Places listings in Iowa

(while could select contributions history for a given user, instead)

  • with edit summary set (on Start tab) to "add photos link to NRHP reference"
  • to pages except where (on Skip tab) Text contains "photos=y", and except where Text doesn't contain "NRHP url" (i.e. finds pages where "NRHP url" appears but not "photos=y")

then ran it from the Start tab, choosing for each page presented either to edit it and hit Save, or to Skip it. The search found cases where just an MPS document is linked and no photos could be added, and it found c ases on some of the pages named "National Register of Historic Places listings in ..." but those can easily be skipped over when they come up. It took 23 minutes to do the 31 after the first one. Applying it to source on an Iowa NRHPs category with recursion through as many levels as necessary would probably work to find all the other cases in bigger, split-out counties. Search within page is manual; I only looked for one NRHP reference to fix up. Re-running will exclude pages where one is fixed up but others are not. --doncram 6/29/2016]

Notes

  • User:NationalRegisterBot/NRISOnly/All has link available (not usually visible in Chrome, reliably visible for me in Edge only if I run purge), given i had installed access to NationalRegisterBot i suppose) about "which editors created these?". 8/28/2017 for 2,745 NRIS-only, it shows counter running up to 2,745 but I don't see any report. Hmm, run it again, see "MicroSoft Edge blocked a popup from en.wikipedia.org, allow? Then allowing and re-running works, yields new blank page with me with 2 and top ones
  1. Swampyank: 824
  2. Ebyabe: 748
  3. NrhpBot: 131
  4. Another Believer: 112 (does not reflect many with just oregon state minimal source)
  5. Avicennasis: 65
  6. Btilm: 59
  7. Packerfansam: 45
  8. Pubdog: 40
  9. Renelibrary: 39
  10. Chilcoatr: 39
  11. Clariosophic: 28
  12. Yoctownyocol: 27
  13. Cbl62: 24
  14. Xnatedawgx: 22
  15. Bwsmith84: 20
  16. FloNight: 15
  17. Pietro: 14
  18. Tomas417: 11
  19. Daniel Case: 10
--doncram 14:42, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

candleabracadabra ones[edit]

I was developing numerous short articles started by User:Candleabracadabra, which were valid IMHO, but had been put into userspace. Numerous like Rawls Hotel, a redlink, where creating the article later brings up:

A page with this title has previously been moved or deleted.

If you are creating a new page with different content, please continue. If you are recreating a page similar to the previously deleted page, or are unsure, please first contact the user(s) who performed the action(s) listed below. 

*14:59, 20 December 2014 Nyttend talk contribs moved page Rawls Hotel to User:Candleabracadabra/Rawls Hotel without leaving a redirect (All written by a banned user's sock; nowhere close to being ready for mainspace) (revert) (thank)

I expanded more than a hundred i am sure, then remainder abruptly deleted to stop me, apparently. It was hard to see what happened. User:Candleabracadabra/Rawls Hotel brings up:

This page has been deleted. The deletion, protection, and move log for the page are provided below for reference.

  • 05:01, 8 February 2017 Nyttend talk contribs deleted page User:Candleabracadabra/Rawls Hotel (G6: Indef-banned user's creation in own userspace) (thank)

--Doncram (talk) 13:19, 30 October 2019 (UTC)

Alaska NHLs revisit[edit]

Create new NRHP articles in several areas, and/or save articles that were removed from mainspace[edit]

  • 2.a As of August 10, 2016, just 19 needed for GA to hit 30%, 630 articled, at wp:NRHPprogress.
    • 2a-1 One possibility is to complete a swath of counties across the top of the state:

Iowa items[edit]

arbitration and ARCA links[edit]

  • This diff of discussion deleted at a Signpost Talk page summarizes some of the past issues.
  • this unrelated ARCA has a passage about "narrative" that is interesting, though not directly applicable.

May 2017 items:

a few ARCA-mentioned articles[edit]

case naming to avoid pre-judging[edit]

this note about avoiding username for case name, using "crosswiki something" instead, explicitly to avoid pre-judging, as of November 2017. "because there has been a push against cases named after editors, which would supposedly prejudge the outcome. Perhaps the current name isn't good enough, feel free to suggest something better." Commendable. The notion that arbitrators and others would not be affected by case name was absurd, previously. --doncram 07:35, 3 November 2017 (UTC)

Rochambeau[edit]

  • 5. List of historic sites preserved along Rochambeau's route and related articles
    • Old Oak Tree (Basking Ridge, New Jersey) in news 6/27/2016, set up redir and expanded article 6/28. Hope others may expand more.
    • AWB through the category to fix bad See also links.
    • About restoration of articles, run an RFC at its Talk page? Or get a 3rd opinion? I edited at articles & Talk page June 20, 2016.
        • Develop more from MPS. Try:
        • Redirects prevent development of additional text, display of any pictures at all for many, collection of multiple pictures.
        • Disparate treatment vs. buildings on list.
        • Articles allow for proper categorizing, allows them to be included in village/town/county lists of local historic sites
        • Where discussed? What noticeboard?
        • Edit summaries, e.g. for Forty-Seventh Camp of Rochambeau's Army:
          • (cur | prev) 04:56, 20 December 2011‎ Polaron (talk | contribs)‎ . . (71 bytes) (-2,533)‎ . . (Reverted to revision 466801387 by Polaron: it doesn't make sense to have multiple boiler plate articles rather than discussing them together in context. (TW)) (undo | thank)
          • (cur | prev) 03:15, 20 December 2011‎ Doncram (talk | contribs)‎ . . (2,604 bytes) (+2,533)‎ . . (restore article, an obviously contested deletion/redirect with no consensus, see current noticeboard discussion) (undo)
          • (cur | prev) 02:55, 20 December 2011‎ Polaron (talk | contribs)‎ . . (71 bytes) (-2,533)‎ . . (Reverted 1 edit by Doncram (talk): All useful content in target. (TW)) (undo | thank)
          • (cur | prev) 02:51, 20 December 2011‎ Doncram (talk | contribs)‎ . . (2,604 bytes) (+2,533)‎ . . (restore article, an obviously contested deletion/redirect) (undo)
          • (cur | prev) 02:49, 20 December 2011‎ Polaron (talk | contribs)‎ . . (71 bytes) (-2,533)‎ . . (←Redirected page to List of historic sites preserved along Rochambeau's route) (undo | thank)
    • In the first version of this article, there were coordinates, presumably from the infobox generator (see wp:NRHPhelp). Which no longer has them. Perhaps this is a restricted site where the public version of NRIS gave the coordinates accidentally, until there was a later correction of the NRIS database to remove such coordinates. Or are these coordinates simply wrong? Maybe should drop them from list-article and its article.

AFD process[edit]

  • 6. About how AFD process works badly
    • my comment in Jayn Joso AFD, and later comments, on how it appears too harsh on editor Dictionarylady. There is some chance this is a paid editor or has too much COI or is the subject, but I think there are too quick judgments, there is no acknowledgement that appearances could be wrong, and no advice with empathy. I tried better with Isle of Man sockpuppet. This editor, active on the one article occasionally for years, had no talk page and was "welcomed" one minute before their article was PRODDed. Thanks at least for slipping in the welcome, but that welcome message needs to be customised or a different standard one for such situations is needed.
    • other notes far below or in another sandbox?
    • Merge to, say, User:Doncram/AFD changes?

User:Doncram/NRHP advantages vs disadvantages by state[edit]

Tax subsidy tax subsidies tax credits vary, for example, by whether state or local zoning or preservation commission rules make specific provisions for NRHP-listed properties. Complement the historic district (United States) and NRHP articles, and more: User:Doncram/NRHP advantages vs disadvantages by state.

Various items[edit]

Lists of courthouses[edit]

There's [List of county courthouses in Alabama|the Alabama list]], created by Spyder Monkey in 2010, which is like the Illinois list, i.e. includes modern courthouses and appears not to include former courthouses. There are already mainspace lists for AR, DC, IA, NC, SC, WA, and Boston, too. The draft I have been working on is trying to cover the other states, starting with NRHP-listed ones (current and former courthouses), and happens to include just a couple non-NR courthouses so far (Adams County Courthouse (West Union, Ohio), Providence County Courthouse). For Illinois, I stripped the draft's section down to just the 10 notable former county courthouses that are NRHP-listed so it does not duplicate any rows in the current Illinois list. These 10 are already mentioned in the comments column for the corresponding current Illinois courthouses. But they are still properly described as county courthouses, so I think they should be explicitly listed in a "List of county courthouses". I would be happy if that list of 10 former ones could be shifted over, to appear in a section below the list of current ones. 30 June 2016 (UTC)

Courthouses disambiguation[edit]

    • 9d) Per discussion sections at my Talk, open an RFC probably at Talk of wp:USPLACE, on disambiguation using places for courthouses. First write essay.
See Yell County Courthouse, one courthouse of one of 10 Arkansas counties having dual county seats. Also has cost updated expression "$25,000 (equivalent to $760,000 today)" produced by:

$25,000 (equivalent to {{formatnum:${{Inflation|US|25000|1914|r=-3}}}} today)

see also County seat war
Sometimes "(State)" is appropriate, e.g. for a river that runs throughout a state, to distinguish vs. river(s) of same name outside the state. If the river is in a smaller identifiable area, I would prefer that: __ River (__ County, State) or __River (__ county, state1 and __ county, state2), whether or not there is another river of that name in another county in the state. So the reader is told where it is, and given some idea of scope of place (and size/length of river).
Or when something pervades a state, e.g. Criminal Justice System (State).
X Superior Court (County, State) or (State) implies it pervades the couunty or the state. X Superior Court (City, State) conveys location, not how far the court pervades. Which prefered for a court htat does cover state? I prefer NYS Appellate Courthouse (Albany, NY),
For all other topics, we use location. We don't try to convey that one railway station serves an entire county, we just say where it is.
If location is partly conveyed by name, do we suppress? E.g. Springfield __ (State) rather than Springfield _ (Springfield, State)? No. Americans know that cities in store or company names reflects original city or aspiring market, e.g. Manhattan Storage in Hackensack, NJ. In fact there is Springfield __ (not-springfield, state2), and in state3. (By the way, there are courthouses where counties split or merged or county borders changed, so have X County Courthouse in another county. Old Chattahoochee Courthouse now in Stewart County, GA diff)
Why courthouses held to be different? I think just momentum from how many of them were started, when some assumed that there would only be at most one notable courthouse per county, so at most only one X County Courthouse per state, so "(State)" would suffice to make unique disambiguator, and there may have been assumption that readers would know what was the county seat, given a county. And there was not regard for overall consistency with other topics. Currently __ are at "(State)", __ at "(City, State)". There have been moves both ways.
For example, one of the courthouses recently was for article originally and currently at Graham County Courthouse (Safford, Arizona). It had been moved from (Safford, Arizona) to (Arizona), with edit summary "Simplify: there's only one in the state, by definition". IMHO, that's common type of reasoning, but not true. In fact when I search a bit I find the building is the 5th courthouse of the county, and there exists text material and photographs and interesting facts (e.g. for the third one, in Solomonville, Arizona, about 9 hangings there, at gallows within view of jail cells, and water dipper and barrels) to have a separate articles on one or more of those too. There's no necessity that all preceding courthouses be covered in an article about the current one. Disambiguation by (City, State) sometimes will suffice for a former courthouse, where the county seat moved. I'd prefer to see disambiguation by (City, State, YEAR) where YEAR is the year-built for two in the same city, conveying place and that there must be more than one notable at the place. I don't think "current" or "former" should be included in the disambiguation. Why not just use YEAR? We could do that for everywhere. Because it doesn't convey where there are two, is it two in different states, or two county seats, or in same county seat. And it may misleadingly convey location, i.e. Fulton County Courthouse (1868) may be assumed to be in Fulton, State. Often, but not often enough, there is repetition, the county seat's city often has the same name as the county.
Note, the county seat is the location, is a city, state. X County (County seat), where county seat is a city, state. It is by 1877 law, by county-wide vote in Arizona, that a city is chosen as county seat, while the specific building site is not specified.(footnote Graham County Courthouse (Safford, Arizona) sources).
How many previous county courthouses? Consider counties extinct, destroyed by fire sections. Fulton County Courthouse (Atlanta, Georgia) existed before 1932 creation of Fulton county by merger of 4?
If assumption is that X County Courthouse says where it is, so just state should be used, what about State Criminal Courthouse, or __, or __, where there is not suggestion of county. Do we use city, state sometimes, even when State would be unique? This is getting complicated.
General rule of consistency, having a house style that readers understand, i.e. disambiguation by place is just place, it doesn't convey more that needs to be inferred. Readers not expected to learn flowchart rules (if not courthouse, then it is place; if courthouse, and if county name in name, then if no notable other courthouse has Wikipedia article yet, then etc.).
Consider post offices. Usually there is just one per town, so (towun, state) works well. Crossover cases: there are __ "Federal Courthouse and U.S. Post Office" examples. Any "X County Courthouse and U.S. Post office" ones?
City, State, Federal courthouse all use City, State. So it is only County courthouses, right? Consider Atlanta Municipal Court vs. Municipal Court (Atlanta, Texas) (search on "At M C", e.g. At, Tx)
So far there are at least __ cases where there are two current courthouses in the same county, and __ cases where there are older and newer ones in the same county. This is going to grow. This comes up now because there have been recent efforts by several editors to create new lists of all the current courthouses in a state, some with assumption that every current courthouse is notable. (This overlaps my development of List of courthouses in the United States covering all notable courthouses, current and former, starting with the NRHP-listed ones, but my development does not drive new disambiguation as all NRHP-listed ones are already known, disambiguated.) For example, IL, with __ redlinks vs. 37 or 39 bluelinked NRHP ones, out of 102 current, and 10 or more bluelinked former ones. The current ___ county courthouse disambiguation pages are going to be expanded by additions of modern courthouse complexes. There are __ unique county names, and __non-unique ones.

There are X=__ total NRHP courthouse article topics (__ with articles, __ redlinks), covering __ distinct counties. There are 4,ZZZ counties, so __ in new counties not covered. And estimation by applying IN's ratios suggests that __ = X*10/(10+37) new courthouse articles in counties where there is a notable historic one already (blue or red).

Counter-arguments: Is this more likely than other topics to be the one and only in a county, and since county is in its name, omit it? (But most now are 3rd or 4th or 5th in a county...) Commons categories already set up for many.
Previous discussions: Saenger Theatre and "simplifying moves" like for West Hill Historic District, see User_talk:Polaron/Archive1 and Talk:Saenger Theatre (New Orleans, Louisiana).

and Wikipedia talk:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Archive 27#courthouses disambiguation using (City, State) vs. (State)).

Note admin moving/renaming with edit summary, 23 October 2016
Here's an assertion that the usual way for naming NRHP places is City, State, applied to a historic district: diff about a Port Republic Historic District.
by contrast an old edit in 2008 about a Palace Theater, this diff, which i think they would not now support. I undid that change in the next edit, back then.

--doncram 04:14, 18 October 2016 (UTC)

done, --doncram 04:13, 4 December 2016 (UTC)

This edit with summary "This is a disambiguation page, not a "List of Adams County Courthouses" on which would belong non-disambiguation details" was not helpful IMO. I restored the town/city info and NRHP-listed mentions, as obviously helpful to readers. I guess there is an issue of minimalist preferences for disambiguation pages, vs. having some helpful information (which does not make it a standalone list-article, i.e. no sources, no photos, etc.) --Doncram (talk) 16:45, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Acacia Lodge[edit]

  • 10. Acacia Lodge in Montecito, by Santa Barbara: dig out pics and correspond and develop?

Registered Buildings of the Isle of Man[edit]

Further, could correspond with IoM planning staff, figure out few cases where I could not get coordinates, etc. --Doncram (talk) 16:06, 8 May 2018 (UTC)

some Oregon NRHP articles[edit]

User:Valfontis/sandlist lists Oregon articles created by me by June 2011, and a few others. Since then NRHP documents have become available; can go through and develop more now. A year or two ago I addressed all "NRIS-only"-tagged articles in Oregon and everywhere else which had been created by me. Of these 2011-listed ones, a few including the Astoria Elks Building should have still been marked NRIS-only, but that approach to tracking articles needing development was obfuscated by an editor's addition of trivial and/or malfunctioning Oregon or Portland links (such as this which doesn't work) as references, seemingly with purpose of obfuscating their status. These 2011 listed items are:

individually listed
Districts

The Grange[edit]

N. M. Stark and Company[edit]

Round churches[edit]

Round barns[edit]

  • 15. List of round barns: That doing historic >= 50 yrs only. Cross-checking vs Travis: Canada, VT, NY done. I did find a few Travis missed in NY, send mention to Travis. What about Ways Mills ones and other remaining puzzles for Quebec? Are there sources about Dale J.Travis to give credit with description?

disambiguation damage[edit]

(see also general disambiguation issues in items further below)

I notice that on numerous occasions Dabdo's edits were reverted by bots as probably vandalism, which was substantially correct. Dabdo's user page, created 4 January 2014 their first edit, indicates "This account is for fixing and improving disambiguation pages. / I had been doing it anonymously but a bot tends to reverse anonymous corrections too often. It was getting annoying."] Unfortunately almost all of their edits should be rolled back, as recklessly causing damage to disambiguation. I focus on the edits damaging disambiguation pages of places including NRHP-listed places. In a good number of their edits, they remove valid items from the disambiguation pages. In overlapping but more numerous edits, they reorganize the pages, so that readers cannot easily find the place they are looking for. For example on a page of places named "X House" that lists 15 places in the United States, they discard organization by state then city (which works well for readers looking for the X House in a given city) and sort by tiny variations in naming (e.g. put "Joseph X House" at bottom, when it is quite likely known as "X House"). They strip useful information from entries.

I've been working backwards through their edits, got back to 24 October 2014, maybe will start at January 4 and go forward now.

User:66.217.197.192 edited Callahan House, was reverted by me, in 2013. Then Dabdo created their account in 2014 and this was first mainspace page they edited (and were promptly reverted by bot, and then they reimplemented it). What they did was this, which drops 2 out of 6 items, i.e. drops T. M. Callahan House, Longmont, Colorado, and John L. Callahan House, La Crosse, Wisconsin, and puts the remaining ones in random order. Maybe they could make some claim about their ordering, but I don't see why they would choose that ordering, and it cannot be superior to helping readers look up by state then city. In this case it puts two houses that are located in Annapolis, Maryland, into different sections (one in an unneeded "See also" section). In many other of their edits, it puts houses from the same city far away from each other in a disambiguation page, when clearly a reader looking for one of them would like to see them together. I am fixing the Callahan House one now, January 29, 2017, to a valid version (that happens to mention county locations...not required, but somewhat helpful IMHO).

I wasn't editing in NRHP area in 2014, but I am sure I gave them feedback previously, and the bots did, and probably others did, and they might have modified their edits somewhat, but they didn't go back and fix their errors and all the edits of place disambiguation pages were damaging, through their entire edit history as far as I can tell. Oh well, they will all be reversed soon. There is some urgency now as a different editor is changing disambiguation pages in an okay way, about dashes vs. hyphens, and it saves effort if Dabdo's edits are reversed, first. --doncram 22:44, 29 January 2017 (UTC)

    • As of February 6, done.  Done
    • As of February 5, repair through Winters House, on September 1, 2014. Did 6 months of edit reversions. 2 months of edits remain to revert. Am thanked for my repair and update to Rankin House, by Drmies, which is nice.
    • As of February 4, repair through Midway Historic District, on February 24, 2014.
    • As of January 29, repaired from first January 4, 2014 edit at Callahan House, through Sadler House, on February 1, 2014. In most of their pages they are being reversed by bot as vandalism, then reimplementing. They were warned level-3 vandalism at their Talk page too.
    • As of January 29, repaired back to 24 October 2014, Noble House (disambiguation), in 2nd 500 of their last edits
    • As of January 26, repaired back to 19 December, Benjamin Franklin School, have undone almost all in their last 500 edits
    • As of January 25, repair vandalism back to 22 January 2015, Holman House. Note editor SJ Morg has been helping, e.g. this edit undoing Dabdo damage at Holman House.
    • As of January 25, repaired their damage back to 1 March 2015, St. Stephen's Episcopal Church
    • As of January 24, undoing their edits back to 26 March 2015, Tallman House.
    • As of January 23, 2017, have gone back through their edits to 15 April 2015, Thomas House. A brain is a terrible thing to cook.
    • As of January 22, 2017, have gone back through their edits to 12 May 2015 St. Bernard's Church. This is tedious undoing their work. I hope they didn't spend much time on it, all wasted.
    • As of July 24, 2016 have gone back to Dabdo's 19:49, 24 July 2015 edit on Great Northern Railway Buildings
    • as of July 18, have done back to Dabdo's edit 23:36, 31 August 2015 Daniel Miller House
    • as of July 17, 2016, have done back to Dabdo's edit 06:36, 17 December 2016 on Bass Building
    • as of July 12, have done back to 07:05, 17 December 2015 Washington Park
    • ‎ was done back to North School, as of July 5, 2016
      • Centrally make case again about naming NRHP, keeping in, as signal old vs. new, esp. courthouses where new items coming in as Texas, Alabama, other lists develop.  ?
      • Just fix them.
    • 17f. Disambiguation pages were edited in 2013 by I.P. editor User:66.217.197.8, see their contributions: [19]. Upon review, there are no real problems with their edits, they were mostly removing wikilinks of supporting bluelinks after the main item turned bluelink, and they don't like explicit statement of "sorted by state then city" for U.S. items. --Doncram (talk) 17:32, 5 February 2019 (UTC)

Wyoming SHPO source[edit]

  • 18. (Added 7/22/2016) Use AWB to add Wyoming SHPO page as external link to each NRHP, as done at J.C. Penney House.

Doncram AFDs record[edit]

By the way, wp:AFDSTATS doesn't always work? E.g. Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Haymarket District (Lincoln, Nebraska) not included in mine, tho formatted correctly. Maybe because it was closed quickly, was not open overnight or whenever a bot run is done?

Also what about my suggestions for improving AFDSTATS display, directed to one of its authors/maintainers in 2017 or so?

template editor[edit]

21. Masonic reconsolidate[edit]

  • [20] (or this diff) RFC about OR designation of "religion=none" in infoboxes for private schools. Reasons against apply here. Source for salient assertions of "Masons don't meet here" is often/usually a grand lodge link which does not show the given building. --doncram 06:53, 28 June 2017 (UTC)

Unified list serves readers. Unified list puts focus on why building is notable. Dividing criteria: we don't know if former or current. Dubious characteristic being used in top-most importance way.

Implementation "Former" fields don't allow for notability to be explained. Building / Image /Location/Landmarking agency/ Year built/Dates of Masonic usage "Former" shows defensiveness. Reasonable for editor to expect dispute about membership, i.e. the "formerness". No interest in notability. So for historically interesting building, this is dead list displaying nothing of interest. It is the discards from other, of interest because it is a partial directory of current buildings.

Hawaii edits for example: There is an inaccuracy, it was not owned or sold by Masons; they just had to move out. Per NRHP nom. Inacuracy introduced in this edit of 1 September 2013 addint to "main", where editor was perhaps rushing, focusing on what they consider of interest: whether masons currently there. Editor just added category "former" to the article on 1 September 2013, without developing article at all (okay). "Main" fields then and now:Building / Image /dates/ Location/City, State/ Description. Description mentioned architecture type, should have evolved to cover notability better.

Article at time and now) said "The Masonic order used the second and third floors as a temple until 1985, when they moved out to protest a liquor license being awarded to the first floor tenant." With "protest" aspect not supported in source, the nom form. In 2010 it was asserted to be active along with one other, with source to other's website. "Protest" wording by article creator, going for DYK.

text removed from main list covered architecture and that, with no footnote. What got brought over in creation of "former" is just that. With no footnote.

The "former" one does not attract edits, it is a dead-end, a discard heap.

Me frustrated with development of Australia section. Natural way to develop is to find the notable ones, add all. Do not arrive in "current" vs. "former" distinction. Amounted to excessive ownership, edit-warring, interfering with some budding international cooperation. Transfers probably lost description/notability? Definitely showed disrespect for wishes of currently developing editors. Australia editor(s) frustrated, can i say driven away? What would they have gone on to do possibly? Check?

Unlike all other mainly-NRHP lists. It is probably the only NRHP list-topic in experience of this editor. Call it a great education perhaps, if went on to other list-articles.  ? While me, others who go on with many many list-articles do not adopt this.

Over-stated, over-committed issue because of issue of respect? Editor criticized on other aspects and "lost", e.g. by Keep of the list, and of redlinks, and "notability is not temporary", and gradually(?) committed onto this arbitrary point (but was objected to). (Was there any support?). Was able to implement after i was blocked(?) or banned. Rest of editors tired out with disputes (and/or did not want to be on "my side")? Is it old enough now. Note about respect shown in NRIS reference revision, complicated, led by me. ----

From NRHP doc for Masonic Temple (Aberdeen, South Dakota): "Fraternal lodges have long contributed much of the most exotic and sophisticated architecture to American cities and small towns. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite of Freemasonry was perhaps the leader in promoting architectural splendor in rural areas in America between the 1870 r s and the 1930's. The Aberdeen Temple is a nice example of the taste for the oriental, which has distinguished these lodge buildings." ( South Dakota Historical Preservation Staff; Carolyn Torma (1979). "National Register of Historic Places Inventory/Nomination: Masonic Temple". National Park Service. Retrieved January 13, 2018. With two photos from 1978. )

"unnecessary disambiguation"[edit]

22. Disambiguation AFD twodabs[edit]

I opened a RFC / proposal, which was at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation#Proposal: keep two-item dab pages. It was archived at Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation/Archive 46.
See User:Doncram/Disambiguation-ChangeTWODABSpolicy, the study of 25 D AFDs
[21] about request for an administrator to close the RFC. Got ping today about it. It had been marked "closed" by Tavix, a major participant, after it was archived. The request by Cunard is to have it properly considered. --doncram 05:35, 17 December 2016 (UTC)
  • I had watchlisted some of the ones in a two dab list back then. Now I see one being deleted:
(Deletion log); 07:09 . . Explicit (talk | contribs) deleted page Talk:Aart de Geus (disambiguation) ‎(G8: Talk page of a deleted page)
(Deletion log); 07:09 . . Explicit (talk | contribs) deleted page Aart de Geus (disambiguation) ‎(Expired PROD, concern was: unnecessary disambiguation page per WP:TWODABS, a hatnote is sufficient for those searching for the minor topic)
--doncram 08:07, 19 April 2017 (UTC)

Here's another reason to keep two dabs pages. Example of IOOF (disambiguation) which is tagged 

IOOF (disambiguation)
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
  15 Revisions (+4 months), 11 Authors, < 30 Page watchers, – Pageviews (30 days), Created by: Great Scott (3,207) · See full page statistics
This disambiguation page contains the primary topic and one other topic for the ambiguous title. Please expand it by adding additional topics to which the title can refer. If no other topics can be found within a reasonable time, the disambiguation page might be deleted. Also consider adding the All pages with titles beginning with User:Doncram/sandbox15  and All pages with titles containing Doncram/sandbox15 templates to assist searches for the term in other articles' titles. (January 2017)

IOOF may refer to: 

Independent Order of Odd Fellows, fraternal order founded in 1819 in Baltimore, United States, by Thomas Wildey
IOOF (company), Australian financial services company related to the above
Disambiguation icon	This disambiguation page lists articles associated with the title IOOF.
If an internal link led you here, you may wish to change the link to point directly to the intended article.
Categories: Disambiguation pages
Hidden categories: Disambiguation pages containing one non-primary topic from January 2017All article disambiguation pagesAll disambiguation pagesMonitored short pages

The secondary usage of "IOOF" seems incredibly obscure to me. I don't think the Australian company deserves to get the publicity of a "for" link on the main International Order of Odd Fellows page. Deletion of the two-dabs page will be used to justify adding an ad on a relatively high-profile page for them. It is better to keep them locked onto the obscure dab page, preferably with no inbound links to it, but having record at its Talk page or edit history that consensus is the Australian company is obscure and does not deserve more. --doncram 17:50, 29 May 2017 (UTC)

23. Bullying and civility essay or other participation[edit]

Address comments at April-May 2016 arbitration amendment, and Guy's and another's at October one (exerpts below).

Same or different than essay

  • essay/note on admin privilege, advantage, getting kid gloves treatment when abusive where non-admins would be slammed. So it is not just whether abused admin tools, there's other abuse of admin status. Probably this is related to "involved" areas only... i.e. where use of admin tools would be clearly not allowed as allowed...but admins who do this use tactics where their status gives advantage, e.g. ANI proceedings (where they are relatively immune to boomerang), violation of civility policy, other. See fairly recent admin involved discussion where fellow admins bent over backward to be tolerant, over-emphasized the no-explicit-abuse-of-admin-tools aspect, take advantage of reticence within band of admins to call out bad behavior amongst selves. Basic thesis worth making: admins can abuse status without explicitly using admin tools; this is serious, undermines trust, fairness generally. --doncram 17:01, 21 October 2015 (UTC)
Does Michael Hardy arbitration case reflect Arbitration committee new willingness to address admin privilege, in an isolated case notably not an admin editor mixed in with others, or is that a one-off?
Some excerpts from User talk:Jimbo Wales#Why would one want to be uncivil?
  • From the above discussion, it seems that for editors who are not malicious and encounter a difficult editor, they might become uncivil because they don't know of any way to easily deal with the problem editor in a civil manner. In that regard, is there any single essay that focuses on this problem by describing various methods for easily dealing with problem editors, which can be used instead of incivility from frustration? --Bob K31416 (talk) 13:29, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
--Here's an example of advice in such an essay – When you have consensus on your side, and an editor goes on and on with repititious unconvincing arguments, keep in mind that it is the article that you are working on, not trying to change the editor's beliefs. So if the editor isn't a threat to the article, you don't need to respond to the editor's remarks nor be uncivil. If you feel you need to respond, keep it civil and short and refer to previous discussions as appropriate. The phrasing, "That's already been discussed" can be used too. --Bob K31416 (talk) 16:03, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
  • Somewhat along the lines of Guy's comment above, i would like to understand better what various people categorize as "uncivil". Is it always uncivil to comment on another user's behavior? If someone seems to be extremely stubborn to the point of completely denying something like "Source X says Y" or are seeming to gish gallop and distract with their dialog while remaining obstinate on blocking or inserting a specific content, then is it ok to say "You seem to be very stubborn and your dialog seems to lack integrity and completion"? Is it ok to insist on dialog with integrity? To me, participating in a dialog but leaving very specific questions unanswered while changing and shifting the dialog seems uncivil to me. It seems like intentional disregard for integrity of dialog is like a disguised filibuster, essentially a prime example of "civil POV pushing". What i've encountered so often is someone in a dialog who seems to not really be there with good will and good faith, and who does not treat the dialog with the requisite respect to work through often complex questions, to tease apart the sub-questions, etc. That really does take a commitment to good dialog. Every tiny bit of insult or snark in a dialog can also throw everything off. Every single tiny insinuation and allegation can throw the dialog off, as a conscientious person who is assuming good faith will feel compelled to answer accusations. Those are the sorts of situations that throw me beyond a breaking point on occasion. SageRad (talk) 14:45, 29 September 2016 (UTC)
You really need to stop using that word "integrity", because you have used it so often as a synonym for ideological consonance and by now every single time you use it I automatically discount your point as being self-serving. You may not like that, but I am pretty sure I am not the only one who sees it this way.
All we require of people on Wikipedia is that they are honest. A True Believer does not lack integrity when they trot out endless anti-vaccine or climate denialist tropes. They are wrong, and they are almost always POV-pushing, but it's not a lack of integrity unless they know and understand that they are wrong and continue anyway. That only happens in very rare cases. Guy (Help!) 14:39, 30 September 2016 (UTC)
  • essay out what does it mean to be bullying/cruel/driving away others in context of wp:nrhp specifically? And to be limiting/narrowing/hazing to preserve a small elite insider club, as opposed to being welcoming/growing?
    • this diff, and later one on same page re a different editor, reflect l.t. dismaying effect, around ship names. no response at Talk page, reference to previous wt:nrhp consensus/discussions ignored. ship names seem not important, but the nature of this is oppressive/dismaying imho; this is but one topic example. As opposed to letting people do what seems sensible, e.g. like the general approach worked out on allowing coordinates corrections. --Doncram (talk) 05:54, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

24. Expand about death of old oak tree[edit]

at Presbyterian Church in Basking Ridge, using sources I added to Talk:Presbyterian Church in Basking Ridge. Note publicly somewhere about how Wikipedia has changed, there used to be rush to add new items. I added this alone in June, and no one noticed in September.

25. Causes of World War II[edit]

missing hugely needed article about Roosevelt's embargo forcing it.

26. Disambiguation patrol proposal[edit]

Disambiguation patrol proposal, or my own items? datrol:

27. *craftsman houses in Syracuse[edit]

    • ward wellington ward bungalow on Salt Springs, 214 Salt Springs is listed $124,900 with no pics "GREAT OPPORTUNITY TO OWN A CHARMING VILLAGE HOME WITH HARDWOOD FLOORS,GORGEOUS ORIGINAL WOOD MOLDINGS, 4 BEDROOMS AND A MODERN RENOVATED KITCHEN/FAMILY ROOM! COULD BE USED FOR ONE FLOOR LIVING-- FEATURES INCLUDE A MUDROOM AND 2ND FLOOR ATTIC SPACE WHICH COULD BE MADE INTO AN ADDITIONAL BATHROOM. VINYL SIDING,DECK, SOME REPLACEMENT WINDOWS,CENTRAL AIR, SIDEWALKS AND NICE YARD. ALTHOUGH IT NEEDS SOME WORK---BEING CLOSE TO CENTER OF VILLAGE,SCHOOLS, LIBRARY,PARK RESTAURANTS, SHOPPING SIDEWALKS, & FM SCHOOLS MAKE THIS A PROPERTY WITH GREAT POTENTIAL!!!!!!"
    • 100 Summit Ave on Bellevue, two-story, also www? zillow on 100 Summit with inside pics
    • 812 Stinard Avenue in Strathmore, a 2011 house of the week
    • 922 Avery Ave, bungalow, has porch detail per trovit for sale listing 10/15/2015 $63,129
    • 1911 Brewerton Rd., "1911 Brewerton Road 1462 sq. Ft. Single Family Residential

Syracuse, NY 13211 07/26/2015 - Craftsman Style Bungalow, North Syracuse Schools, Many Updates. $104,000. per same trovit. Across from Dee's Diner, on Rt 11, in Mattydale just n of thruway, just e of 81.

    • trovit search is bungalow-syracuse-ny list, but "bungalow" not nec. craftsman style
      • 129 Fiscoe has front dormer, $71,000
      • 717 Seeley Rd. has front dormer, 58,900
      • 201 Mosley, eastwood, built 1928, front dormer, $95,000
      • 106 Orwood Place, somewhat, $62,500

28. Multiple property submissions[edit]

Multiple property submission article conversions. For the most part, articles in Category:National Register of Historic Places Multiple Property Submissions should probably be merged or at least renamed, where the topic of the MPS is notable. On 10.6.2016 I just raised one proposal at User talk:IvoShandor#Illinois Carnegie libraries. For another example The Rosenwald School Building Fund and Associated Buildings Multiple Property Submission created by Altairisfar should probably merge to the Rosenwald Schools article.

Wait for a bit, then propose a cleanup campaign at wt:NRHP? Or just itemize here and work ahead one by one?
Also the topic Multiple Property Submission itself is a bit lame, should be re-titled at least, if not just merged back into National Register of Historic Places article? --doncram 22:11, 6 October 2016 (UTC)

29. Norris Bumstead Herndon[edit]

Create Norris Bumstead Herndon (b. 1897) biography article, about light-skinned black businessman of Atlanta, GA. Or suggest it for a black history Wikipedia editing event. Black History Month is February in the U.S.

See User:Doncram/February DYKs. --Doncram (talk) 14:10, 27 December 2019 (UTC)

Harvey & Clarke[edit]

30. Expand (since someone already re-created it, which I was preparing to do) the Harvey & Clarke article that was one of few deleted articles found in analysis at User:Doncram/Articles or User:Doncram/Articles1 or User:Doncram/Articles2:

References

  1. ^ DDA (January 31, 2015). "Harvey and Clarke help develop downtown West Palm Beach during Roaring 20's".
  2. ^ "title".
  3. ^ [1]
  4. ^ Rexford Newcomb. Spanish-Colonial Architecture in the United States. p. 14. ISBN 0486157393.
  5. ^ Barbara D. Hoffstot. Landmark Architecture of Palm Beach.
  6. ^ Janet DeVries. Around Boynton Beach.
    • more? Article was re-created. Copying these sources to its Talk page.

Asian topics[edit]

31. Four Asian articles in November 2016.

SIA definition vs other disambiguation[edit]

    • Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Disambiguation/Archive 33#Crow House: idea on SIA is that they are collections of reader interest to see together, they are not disparate items. "Being of the same type" is not enough, any name disambiguation page lists same-type things (people) that are unrelated. If they are very related somehow, in a way of interest to reader to see together, then okay.

links to disambiguation pages[edit]

(in addition to Disambiguation items in numbered items above)

  • signpost note. Want a nice graphic! Milestone when hit ? pages. Already hit 1,000,000 dablinks eliminated, and being below 100,000.
  • June 1, 2009 134,868 / 1,355,714 start of stats kept by JaGa based on __ by ___
  • June 20, 2010 140,182/ 1,059,151 drop to
  • June 21: 113,970 / 961,936
  • September 21, 2015 43,654 99,650
  • Current (September 24, 2015 43,344 98,387) holding...
  • improve Notification system per my 9/10 commitment at Talk:Staszek Lem.
    • improve tools list at wp:DPL per Dispenser comments at Talk
    • improve "Guide", or an FAQ or what
Seek liaisons to work with groups of experts?
  • if getting developers to consider one tool change, need to warn them of possible further tool requests for SIAs disambiguating (daily report, Sia Solver, other analogs to tools listed at wp:DPL, possibly LinkClassifier, possibly various semi-automation tools).
  • LinkClassifier test some more, and add it to wp:DPL list, first. Should it also show SIAs and SIA-intended links?
  • The User:Doncram/RequestForLiaisons draft, drafted 9/9/2015, was getting at need for new general tools:
  • DabSolver list for any CatScan output (intended to be about general articles (including SIAs))
  • Dab Fix List for any CatScan output (intended to be about disambiguation pages (or SIAs))
    • Note the Category:Articles with links needing disambiguation from June 2011 has just under 500 articles now (9/9) and it is a pain to work on, same as what experts elsewhere would have to do. One has very little idea what the actual disambiguation mini-challenge will be, from just the article title.
    • If getting experts to look at dabs in their area, is a next step, then would need to have the dabs have WPs on them. A reason for Dab page ownership, so that members of the wikiproject can assist in disambiguation of terms that they know about, rather than leaving that to less-experts.
        • It already makes sense for SIAs to have WikiProject banners, but perhaps a CatScan of SIAs NOT having Talk pages, or not having any wikiprojects, could be done? Can Catscan do that, using Talk page categories and article page categories?
    • Is there a way to classify dabs to WikiProjects by the WikiProject banners on articles linked from the dab page. That would work to identify any List of mountains for the Mountains SIAs for example.
    • Big question: can one use CatScan or anything else to search by title or content of disambiguation pages, e.g. dabs with titles having "Battle" or "Skirmish" etc., besides when that is the first word in the title? For the first word ones, can look up in alphabetical list Category:Disambiguation pages, by, for example categories titled "Siege" and on. But you don't get a nice text list out of that, however.
  • Also there are SIA complications
  • Big: An dab-adoption supporting report that facilitates someone watching common dabs, e.g. for dabs in an admin category of their short list, looks for new inbound dablinks. Current DPL instructions are to use "What links here?"

Make this available like LinkAssist at a tab?

  • Also about an Inbound links general tool, reporting count of links from mainspace and replacing "What links here?" with tool that actually facilitates changing the inbound links. This is different than dabfixlist.
  • What about updating DPL bot for more conditions than just "has more than 100 edits". When does DPL bot run in terms of messaging new usages. Adjust trigger time since edit added dablink until message generated. Allow user to adjust time upwards, rather than opting out entirely.
  • And consolidate to make one report for all of a user's outstanding dablinks (and tell them they can ignore/delete previous notices). How about noticing their having fixing dablinks, and thanking them!?! That info is available, all the time or just in each new month?
  • Plan to make a monthly report for anyone, but start it up for frequent dablinkers? Allow users to adjust frequency: bi-monthly, quarterly, semi-annually, annually, opt out completely. Include note that user can run custom report on articles where they have added an unfixed dablink, have that set up to run for just them.
  • Wording fix that someone asked for at wt:DPL.


Notes:

    • Recruit a manager in the wikiproject-specific role, first? Define jobs, e.g. liaisons to topic areas like math? Liaisons to prolific editors, with spirit of what do they need to extend effect of what they do. Surname-reviewers, converters role. Given-name role. Set up a panel of roles? Or maybe not because don't want to undermine system that is running. Perhaps roles that are within the existing system could be named, while avoiding pressing for different approaches? General poll or better test a short questionaire on just one or two of the regulars or those who occasionally show in the MDC.
  • No more than one campaign or new idea per month.
  • What is template {{incoming links}}, it was on Centre Square dab and brings up DabSolver setup. See {{incoming links}}. Try here Dab solver on Signal Mountain?
    • No it would need to be SUBST'd, that's what the template does?
The following makes no sense...Subst is to apply a template and this is not linking to one....oh it did apply for {{FULLPAGENAMEE}} which did get replaced once.
Try simply, now not with template tags, duh, around Signal Mountain:
Or better, this is not applying DabSolver, rather it is going to the once-a-day-created "dab fix list" which shows for each dab the articles having dablinks coming to the dab, and displays the section for this dab, with FIX links set that will apply DabSolver to any one of those articles. ? Hmm, when you apply Dabsolver and fix a link, then applying Dabsolver again won't find anything. Dabsolver runs live. But the dab fix list will stay the same until DPLBOT runs again and updates it? The dab fix list is in effect a list of dab - article pairs, sorted by dab. And it must have date-time of the dablink-creating edit, because it can show strikeout if there has been an edit later than that.
Similarly for the dablinks by editor, it goes to a list which is really a dab fix list sorted by number of recent dablinks per editor then by editor (last editor of the page when it first got a dablink, how tell?). But here one can run the list-generating program.
Headed towards a new Disambig report or something? Hmm, looks like this would just be an easy output format change, for CatScan to spit out wikitable formatted to facilitate performing disambiguation within each one, like it generates a different wikitable. The wikitable should indicate date-time when run, and the count of results, --actually better to number the rows, so editors at a wikiproject could say "I'll do rows 11-20" or "#15 done" etc-- and the CatScan field settings that yielded this (i.e. what shows in the URL). Editors can edit the resulting worklist by deleting rows that were done, or striking them out, whatever. Perhaps limiting the table-length should be an option? Not worth it. Hmm, just make it a numbered list using # or using fixed numbers or both, easy to update by strikeouts and need to be able to see the fixed row numbers when in edit mode. Or, format so it makes a live page, just for this current catscanner user to see, in html, of only the still currently open ones?
And then, it doesn't have to be done as a CatScan output, it could be done manually with Word editor or somehow on one existing output format or another. Should be able to apply concatenation functions in Excel to generate a column, and then copy-that to a wikipage. Try doing for Canada list.
Okay, that is done, re-ran to yield 255 in TSV format, copy-pasted to Notepad & deleted lead stray text, saved & imported into Excel. Concatenating worked fine (Excel file in Google/Wikipedia/Wikipedia-disambiguation). Results in Wikipedia:Canadian Wikipedians' notice board/ArticlesNeedingDisambiguation2015-08-17. However, in one try that applied Dab-fix-list to the articles, which identifies incoming dablinks and is relevant for application to a list of dab pages only. Dabsolver works for application to articles having outgoing dablinks. Can easily choose in Excel which of those two to use, in column contributing to concatenation. Out of Excel, only the concatenated results column is what is to be copy-pasted into a wikipedia page. Canada list of 255 down to 234 now, at wt:Canada.
  • Request better tool 1? a dablink assistance tool like the output of the monthly list tool (giving clickable FIX links to DabSolver), which works from the results, in one format or another, of the CatScan tool; that would be most general in reviewing OUTGOING dablinks (and sialinks?) from a WikiProject like the wt:SHIPS august 2015 drive. (Semi-automated approach using Excel works, but a fully automated one would be better for ...)
  • Request better tool 2: a dablink assistance tool like the monthly list (giving clickable FIX links and showing strikeouts for pages edited since the tool was last run) that would review INCOMING dablinks (sialinks easily) to articles in a category or explicitly listed (in a list format that CatScan can output). The category method or the list method could conceivably enable "adoption" of dabs commonly linked to, by specialty area.
  • Try to categorize the dabs in the monthly list; which could have vs. were converted to SIAs or BCAs. Actors & films; Math/technical scientific; philosophy; Known Troublemakers: Telegraph, etc. Eastern European & Balkans places, football clubs. In which areas is some recruitment needed. Not ships, seemingly.
  • Outline of the job, position, title role BCAs needed?
  • Request or figure out, first, whether dabs that are targets of incoming links are in a category, or where they are listed by the daily or monthly existing reports. If they are in a category, then could use CatScan to identify the ones that a WikiProject's experts should review.
  • Request or try to figure out if CatScan could take as input, the articles in a given list (e.g. the list of known dablinks source or target articles. (it already does take as input the articles in a given category). If so, then could use CatScan to identify to disambiguation pages .
  • What process, a manual one, to build up collections of dab pages that can be adopted/patrolled.
  • Request variation on existing reports to address sialinks.
  • Request an author specific tool more extensive than the report that can be run now?
  • Saints Noting mention of saints pages being slower to clear, at wt:dpl on 8/18, do a project to correspond to the schools, churches, etc. named after a saint, in order to find out. Based on my experience inquiring to local geneologist near a private school in England, which worked, although the info was then by private communication, it did not generate a public reference; is that one example enough evidence that this could work? Would need to achieve public webpage changes, in order to cite in Wikipedia?

and/or a dablink tool like that which works from a category (which would facilitate.

It is a basic management precept that: Feedback can be effective if it is timely and specific and balanced / phrased positively. It has to be received, which in Wikipedia it has to be noticed and read.

Strategies for making progress in reducing dablinks:

  • Attack most recently-added dablinks. Dab-fixing effort may be efficient because newly created dablinks include many easy-to-fix ones (while longer-lasting dablinks tend to be the hardest ones to fix). Dab-fixing these is more likely to deliver useful feedback to dablinking editors because 1) these editors are more likely to receive feedback (because they are currently active, and hence are more likely to note changes to articles to which they contributed) and 2) the feedback, if they notice it, is timely (about recent edits they made). However what they may learn from indirect feedback is that others will fix their mistakes. Most efficiently done at Wikipedia:Disambiguation pages with links/The Daily Disambig/Recently added covering recently added still not fixed, updated daily?
  • Attack dablinks added by editor: Use New Article Dablinks Arranged by Editor tool written by User:dispenser. You can run an update to this report yourself. For each editor, it lists dablinks "directly added" recently, which they might not be aware that they added, which have not yet been fixed. Editors are ordered by number of dablinks they recently added. Within editor, articles to which they added dablinks are ordered by number of dablinks added. Dabsolver "FIX-links" are provided for each article. As of July 31, 2015 the report lists 724 editors who recently added 2 or more dablinks, starting with one who recently added 56 dablinks spread across 43 articles. Dab-fixing effort may be efficient because dablinks created by one editor may be similar. Optional: engage the individual editors whose styles you come to understand, by giving feedback to them at their Talk pages on how they can/should fix their own dablinks or avoid creating them.
  • Attack articles having the most outgoing dablinks.
  • Attack disambiguation pages having the most incoming dablinks.
  • Attack longest-existing dablinks.

Elements of surname proposal...

August 2015 MDD challenge included, out of 1000 dabs: animal and plant dabs that could be sias:

surname dabs that could be SIAs

Susanne, a given name, mostly Schott, surname, almost pure, converted Anton Ravindranath, given name in India Wenceslaus, a given name Attalus, a given name, of some kings too

Sam, a given name Seema, a given name Kim, a given name with other related uses, e.g. book after the name Ramsay, some surname usage Estrella, has a given name and a surname section Zhukovsky, where the surname usage is possibly the largest over places, and so a move from Zhukovsky (surname) to Zhukovsky on basis of PRIMARYUSAGE

Numerous saints

>

About other acronyms:

Danube. Contrary to the lede, the Danube R. flows NOT thru Czech Republic, nor Slovenia, nor Bosnia and Herzegovina, nor Montenegro! | country = Germany | country1 = Austria | country2 = Slovakia | country3 = Hungary | country4 = Croatia | country5 = Serbia | country6 = Romania | country7 = Bulgaria | country8 = Moldova | country9 = Ukraine

The infobox listed the right countries.

Germany Austria Slovakia Hungary Croatia Serbia Romania Bulgaria Moldova Ukraine.

What does shape of river look like? Acronym ideas:

  • GASH! Cuts the SeRB? MU.
  • Good Advice: Smart Horsemen Check Stirrups Right Before Mounting Up
  • Good Advice: Smart Horsemen Check Saddles' Roughness Before Mounting Up
  • Good Advice: Smart Housekeepers Control Spending eRe Bills Mount Up

TRaVELL the Baltic: Tallinn, Riga, Vilnius. Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania.

KK TUT. =Kurdistan Kazakhstan Tadjikhistan? Uzbekistan Turkmenistan

rfa notes for advising rrmancer?

notes on "NRIS-only"[edit]

  • Some might be hard to fix, unless something has changed:
    • American Fork Historic District, nom doc was not available per 2nd edit summary. Is available now, 5/16/2016, found in Focus search
    • Altadena Apartments, nom doc was unexpectedly not available per edit summary. Still not available, 5/16/2016. NRHP document found at NARA and added to article, 7/12/2022.
    • Antelope Cave, Arizona, looks interesting, possible NA as archeological. Not available in Focus, 5/16/2016. Searched for NRHP document at NARA, and it is noted there but not made available as a restricted site, 7/12/2022.

more stuff[edit]


NRHPPROGRESS or NRISONLY coding

    • Wikipedia:WikiProject National Register of Historic Places/Progress/History, hit purge to see button "Get Progress Page History", click that, then new "Blank page" window should have content which can be copy-pasted. But repeatedly right now I get "wikipedia.org is not responding", while on the other hand other scripts run fine, e.g. the Progress "Generate SVG Output" works. --doncram 15:57, 28 August 2017 (UTC)

NRHPcoord marking sources for coordinates[edit]

Trying to sort out at wt:NRHP#Coordinates conversions, and should we be footnoting coordinates? and wp:BOTREQ#Copy coordinates from lists to articles

Map all coordinates using OpenStreetMap

Download coordinates as:

changing from version 1 36°51′46″N 80°43′05″W / 36.862642°N 80.717994°W / 36.862642; -80.717994 (Dinwiddie Presby church version 1) to version 2 36°51′46″N 80°43′02″W / 36.862778°N 80.717222°W / 36.862778; -80.717222 (Dinwiddie Presby church version 2) is in fact an improvement, moving from a point at the correct road intersection to a spot right on the church building itself, in what I see in Google satellite view for this. --doncram 17:35, 25 January 2017 (UTC)

testing coord template[edit]

  1. 40°06′N 80°06′W / 40.1°N 80.1°W / 40.1; -80.1 (test1)
  2. 2 source&title=test2 40°12′N 80°12′W / 40.2°N 80.2°W / 40.2; -80.2 (test2) Fails in display...can't have spaces in source info apparently.
  3. 40°18′N 80°18′W / 40.3°N 80.3°W / 40.3; -80.3 (test3)
  4. 40°24′N 80°24′W / 40.4°N 80.4°W / 40.4; -80.4 (test4)
  5. 40°30′N 80°30′W / 40.5°N 80.5°W / 40.5; -80.5 (test5)
  6. 40°36′N 80°36′W / 40.6°N 80.6°W / 40.6; -80.6 (test 6) Two words in name (i.e. "test 6")
  7. 40°42′N 80°42′W / 40.7°N 80.7°W / 40.7; -80.7 (test7)
  8. 40°48′N 80°48′W / 40.8°N 80.8°W / 40.8; -80.8 (test8)
  9. 40°54′N 80°54′W / 40.9°N 80.9°W / 40.9; -80.9 (test9)
  10. 40°57′N 80°57′W / 40.95°N 80.95°W / 40.95; -80.95 (test95)
  11. 40°59′N 80°59′W / 40.98°N 80.98°W / 40.98; -80.98 (test98)
Map all coordinates using OpenStreetMap

Download coordinates as:

Template talk:Coord

verbatim quotes[edit]

  • As if botched quotes are preferred? Revisit, with recent discussion at ANI about long quotes used in Balfour Declaration, which turn out to come from many many sources. One point is that not a huge amount from any source is quoted. And it doesn't matter how much of the Wikipedia article consists of quotes, if they are used appropriately.
  • Rewording rather than quoting can introduce inaccuracy, and can put assertions into Wikipedia's voice. Rewording is good when there is nothing distinctive about the writing and nothing is ambiguous and you are summarizing from something longer.
  • Also here is a 2008 good quote by another editor for an NHL article. --doncram 13:44, 15 May 2017 (UTC)

February is Black History month[edit]

Notes moved to User:Doncram/February DYKs.

Essays/articles[edit]

sandlist[edit]

  • User:Valfontis/sandlist since 2011 creation using some report of articles created by then with connection to Oregon, perhaps. I noticed mention of "not the usual suspects", led me to visit and fix up William C. Knighton just now, 27 March 2018.

past flack[edit]

A nice note about past flack i took, indeed yes, from Royalbroil in Wisconsin. --Doncram (talk) 04:14, 28 March 2018 (UTC)

plank-frame houses[edit]

Check if there's reply at [Talk:Janicke House]. --Doncram (talk) 15:04, 4 November 2019 (UTC)

essay:what is turning[edit]

User:Doncram/Turning, starting.--Doncram (talk) 01:59, 13 November 2019 (UTC)

in progress[edit]

Backup, to mitigate deletion scenario: User:Doncram/NRHP in progress 2019-11-09. i went ahead and deleted, per statement at my Talk. Actually to avoid worse stuff potentially.--Doncram (talk) 23:17, 9 November 2019 (UTC)

There were 247 apparently. I suppose most/all dealt with by developing enough, or were already developed enough to be okay though I was interested in doing more, but for sake of avoiding controversy deleted from category, lost my connection to them. Sort of replaced by Category:Historic sites in progress, which i came across again recently when fixing up one article in it. Did several more, now 18 in number. --Doncram (talk) 04:36, 25 December 2020 (UTC)

wikidata[edit]

I asked at Help in commons approximately "how turn off annoying Wikidata notifications", was directed: Doncram, visit https://www.wikidata.org/wiki/Special:Preferences#mw-prefsection-echo and uncheck according to your needs. -- User:Eatcha 07:44, 30 November 2019 (UTC). I changed a setting to give just a weekly notification, i think by email. --Doncram (talk) 18:09, 30 November 2019 (UTC)

afd role[edit]

Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/La Belle Cemetery includes something like "why is it for some people that every AFD has to include assumption of bad faith, personal attack", maybe valid. --Doncram (talk) 22:17, 5 December 2019 (UTC)

making a combo photo[edit]

This code from Template:Bierstadt Lake is how CaroleHenson did it; there is TFD Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2022 September 12#Template:Bierstadt Lake to delete this because it can be done better somehow. But this looks doable to me.

Clockwise from the top:
  • Reflection of the dense pine forest in the lake
  • Bierstadt Lake's mountain view
  • Horses at the corral on Bierstadt Lake Trail
  • Bierstadt Lake, with the sedges that give it a serene appearance
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