Talk:Tuninter Flight 1153

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Copyright violation[edit]

The investigation section is a verbatim transcript of the Mayday TV show. It should be deleted. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.180.189.5 (talk) 13:03, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You can watch the section from which this is copied here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqOpLpYP3o4&feature=PlayList&p=AD754EAD89B12790&index=4&playnext=5&playnext_from=PL —Preceding unsigned comment added by 91.180.189.5 (talk) 13:05, 3 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Sentence: condemmned![edit]

Can someone translate the Italian law court sentence which was published on March 23, 2009?

+++++ La sentenza emessa il 23 marzo 2009 ha visto 6 condanne (il comandante Chafik Gharby e il pilota Ali Kebaier, entrambi condannati a 10 anni di reclusione, il direttore generale della Tuninter Moncef Zouari e il direttore tecnico Zoueir Chetouane, a 9 anni ciascuno, il responsabile del reparto di manutenzione Siala Zouehir, il meccanico Nebil Chaed e il responsabile della squadra manutenzioni Rhouma Bal Haj, tutti condannati a 8 anni ciascuno) e due assoluzioni (i capisquadra manutenzione Fouad Rouissi e Lofti Ben Jemia)^[1]^[2]^[3]. ++++++

10 yr to both pilotes, 9 yr to the technical director and maintenance manager, 8 yr to the mechanic and maintenance team mgr...

Thanks,

Surf 79.31.11.124 (talk) 15:37, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi! What source is this from? As per Wikipedia:BLP we need to have sources for info. The good news is that Mayday/Air Crash Investigation/Air Emergency is doing an episode on this, so if it has more info we can use it from the TV show. WhisperToMe (talk) 18:31, 23 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Exhaustion Vs Starvation[edit]

I changed the words "starvation" (of fuel) to "exhaustion," because aviation requires and relies upon very precise nomenclature, both in accident/incident analysis and for operational safety.

When engine(s) stop operating, because something interrupts the flow of fuel to the engines, even though there is still usable fuel in the tanks (ice, water in the tanks or lines, faulty boost pump, inoperative cross-feed valves, failed fuel controllers, selection of the wrong fuel tank, etc.), then the proper causality term for that engine failure is "starvation." But, when the engines quit operating, because all of the usable fuel on board has been entirely consumed, then the proper causality term is "fuel exhaustion," not "fuel starvation."

The fact that the article in Wiki, which covers both of those terms, is entitled "Fuel Starvation," does not alter the universal ICAO definitions of those terms.

See the definition of those ICAO Aviation terms, in the TRANSPORT SAFETY INVESTIGATION REGULATIONS 2003 2003 No. 158 - REG 2.2, at this link:

http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/num_reg/tsir20032003n158510/s2.2.html

"fuel exhaustion", in relation to an aircraft, means the aircraft has exhausted its useable fuel.

"fuel starvation", in relation to an aircraft, means an interruption to the fuel supply to the aircraft's engines, although there is useable fuel on board the aircraft.

Since this accident was the direct result of insufficient fuel being placed on board, to safely conduct the flight over the planned length and time, both engines quit operating in mid-flight, after that insufficient amount of usable fuel had been completely consumed. Thus, "fuel exhaustion" was the reason why both engines quit operating, and why that plane was then forced to ditch in the Sea.

It was not a case of "fuel starvation," as was the case when the British B777 crashed just short of the runway, at LHR last year. That B777 had usable fuel remaining in its tanks, but the engines failed to generate enough thrust to safely reach the runway, because something interfered with the normal flow of fuel to those engines.

It is important for Wikipedia to strive for the highest possible precision and accuracy, when it states the cause of any air accident. This ATR-72 accident was caused by fuel exhaustion, not by fuel starvation.

That is why I am changing the term "starvation" back to "exhaustion."

Thank you for your consideration. EditorASC (talk) 09:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

References[edit]

More and up-to-date info[edit]

For more info please alway check http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volo_Tuninter_1153 which is Wikipedia in Italian language.

Surf 79.24.55.8 (talk) 10:11, 25 March 2009 (UTC)[reply]

ANSV page[edit]

http://www.ansv.it/it/detail_Relazioni.asp?ID=949 WhisperToMe (talk) 05:38, 14 May 2011 (UTC)[reply]

ATC role not mentioned[edit]

This article concentrates too much on mistakes of the flight crew, and fails to mention role of Palermo ATC, which acted in completely incompetent fashion. The ATC couldn't even speak proper English!--Mikoyan21 (talk) 00:23, 14 December 2012 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

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[1] Fonte: La Repubblica, 23.03.2009, "Palermo, per la tragedia dell'Atr condannati pilota e tecnici di Tuninter"

[2] Fonte: La Repubblica, 23.03.2009, "Atr72, le cause della tragedia" - parte 1

[3] - parte 2

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[3]