Talk:The Wrecking Crew (music)/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Binksternet (talk · contribs) 14:39, 22 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Before Binksternet begins the review, I'd like to mention some of the editors who have helped build up this article to its present state. Carptrash played the key role in researching and developing the list of songs, artists, and chart positions, in addition to other edits. Ilovetopaint has done a lot over time to improve this article, as well as so many articles that tie-in, such as his incredible work on "Good Vibrations". And, of course, there is Ghmyrtle, who has been active, not only here, but on practically every major music article at Wikipedia. So, the nomination I made is reflective of a collective effort. Garagepunk66 (talk) 02:16, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, but, honestly, I've made hardly any edits on this article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 07:29, 23 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I remain nonetheless appreciative. And, I'm sure I've made a few mistakes here and there that need to be tidied up, so I welcome any helpful advice or edits for improvements. Garagepunk66 (talk) 01:23, 24 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

For the review I'm looking at the article as it continues to develop, and I'm also searching through the sources to see if anything major has been missed. I think it will take a while for me to get a sense of balance, that is, to balance out the various stories which don't always agree on details, and definitely don't agree on focus. Binksternet (talk) 20:11, 24 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Some of the images don't portray the text particularly well. For instance, the photo of Kessel sits right where it would be great to have a photo of Pohlman (though one doesn't exist in Commons.) The photo of Osborn sits right where we should show Kaye. Again, too bad we don't have such an image in Commons.
Under the instrument headers there are "See also" links to some biographies, but the selection doesn't seem consistent. For instance, the bass section suggests that the reader could "See also" the biography of Carol Kaye but not Ray Pohlman or the others. The guitar section suggests Glen Campbell but not Bill Pitman or Tommy Tedesco.
When describing what the musicians did later, it might be good to tell the reader that Jim Keltner hosted a weekly jam session starting in 1973, where session musicians let their hair down and famous artists who were gigging in town often ended up.[1]
I found some redundancy in the text, where an idea is stated one way, then restated another way. These two sentences stand out:
- "The Wrecking Crew's level of success could not be maintained indefinitely, and by the end of 1973, they began to experience a downturn in demand that would result in their effective dissolution within the next couple of years."
- "The Wrecking Crew continued to be in demand in the early 1970s, even enjoying several hits, but by the end of 1973 they began to experience a downturn in bookings, as a series changes in the recording industry began to take hold."
More to come. Binksternet (talk) 21:54, 24 August 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I went in and corrected the problems you mentioned:

Fixed: In the "see also" links: I made the "see also's" in those sections more widely representative of the array of players covered in the section, such as Bill Pittman in the Guitar section. Taking a cue from you, I also made similar additions in the Horn section, as well as in Origins.

Fixed: I modified the opening statement in the Decline section to alleviate the redundancy problem. I also fixed a couple of redundancies that had been in the Post-Wrecking Crew section.

Fixed: As, for Jim Keltner, I added the mention of his jam sessions in the Post-Wrecking Crew section. I fixed a couple of redundancies that had been in the Post-Wrecking Crew section.

Regarding the photographs: Fixed (as best as can be done at present time): You had mentioned that we don't have as many public domain images available as would be ideal--if only we had an image of Pholman. So, would it be OK to keep the pictures we have until better ones become available? I went in and added "see also" links for the musicians in the photos, as to give them more featured roles in their sections in order to better justify their photos. For instance, I added some material on Joe Osborn in the Bass section in order to better justify his photo. Since he gets a lot of mentions in Hartman's book, I'll admit that I should have said more about him previously. Luckily I have now addressed that deficiency. I hope that I have addressed these shortcomings as best as can be done at the present time, and I hope that you will regard these particular changes as satisfactory, in light of the present limited amount of public domain images available. Garagepunk66 (talk) 01:59, 8 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Can this edit be integrated better, without the redundancy it introduced? Binksternet (talk) 02:07, 12 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I noticed that another editor very recently made that edit. Would you like me to revert the passage to its previous state or try to make modifications to his changes? I can also make modifications to the previous text that was there before if need be. Just let me know how you would like me to go about it and I'll fix it tomorrow. Garagepunk66 (talk) 03:28, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I think it would be better to work with the recent change, which means at the minimum the removal of the bolding around the second appearance of "the Phil Spector Wall of Sound Orchestra". Binksternet (talk) 03:57, 13 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Regarding the 1970s, this bit seems like it promises another group like the Wrecking Crew: "...but he is more often associated with the later generation of session players who eclipsed the Wrecking Crew in terms of popularity during the 1970s." I don't think this describes the '70s very well, as there was not a subsequent group that replaced/eclipsed the Wrecking Crew. Instead, the practice of hiring session musicians fell out of favor, with band members increasingly playing all the parts of their own tunes. What do you suggest we do about the bit in quotes? Binksternet (talk) 20:34, 14 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Eventually most session players would definitely go the way of the dinosaur, but there were some session players who came later. On pg. 248, Hartman discusses a slightly later generation of session players who succeeded the Wrecking Crew in popularity in L.A. in the early to mid 70s and were directly influenced by the Wrecking Crew (but came slightly later). He mentions players such as Larry Carlton, Andrew Gold, Danny Kortchmar, Waddy Wachtel, Russ Kunkel, Jeff Porcaro, and Jim Keltner as being part of this group. The one member of this group of session who is sometimes mentioned with Wrecking Crew is Keltner, because he played with the Crew on John Lennon's Rock & Roll album (and got mentored by Blaine). If you'd like, I could mention those payers in this particular statement. But, I just wanted to avoid redundancy, because I think that I mentioned them elsewhere in the article (where it discusses Keltner's jam sessions). But, I could still work on this statement. Just let me know how you think I should frame the statement, and I'll do the best I can to make it look right. Garagepunk66 (talk) 02:15, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

P.S.: Carptrash and I re-worked the opening section to remove the Phil Spector Orchestra redundancy. Let me know if you think we now have it right. Garagepunk66 (talk) 02:18, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

I went in there and modified the statement in the Decline section to make less vague and more specific. After doing that, went down and tweaked the statement mentioning the Keltner's jam session (to sound less redundant). But, I could work on these things some more if you think I need to. I hope I'm on the right track. Garagepunk66 (talk) 02:41, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Done. GA listed! Thanks everyone for your dedication. Binksternet (talk) 15:40, 15 September 2016 (UTC)[reply]