Talk:The End of Evangelion/Archive 1

Archive 1

Archive 2

Thoughts

I have some notes/thoughts I would *like* to add as alternate interpretations of various parts of this article, including incosistancies, contradictions, and differing views. As anyone who has seen this movie knows and will agree, there is no single and definitive answer. For example: Although the statement by Asuka's voice-actress is a first-hand source stating that her motivation for the line was Asuka's disgust with Shinji's having masturbated over her comatose body, this is in itself impossible. The entire reason that Shinji was able to masturbate over Asuka was that she was unable to resist, accept, or even respond to his sexual advance/desire; Shinji is, at the time, far too cowardly and pitiful to be capable of contact with another person, let alone be able to express love/sexual desire to the person most distant* from him whom he also feels the strongest for, Asuka.

If anyone wants to present some things to be added/changed that I may not have thought of, I'm happy to listen.

*Some might argue that Gendou is more separated from Shinji, but Shinji does not feel for his father. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 69.123.35.77 (talk • contribs) .

Actually at the very end Shinji is alone on the beach with an entity that is the combination of Asuka, Rei, and Misato. You can notice this by the body of Asuka, Rei's bandages when Shinji first met her, and Misato's brown eyes. Facek 05:08, 16 November 2005 (UTC)Facek

Asuka still has blue eyes at the end of the movie. They just appear brown because the ambient lighting is red.--72.19.75.72 03:55, 19 December 2005 (UTC)

Furthermore the bandages on her arm (as well as her left eye) are the result of her battle with the production model Evas not any sort of merging. Her sync with Unit-02 was such that when the pseudo-lances split the Eva's arm, her arm split also in the same way. The piercing of the left side of Unit-02's face blinded (presumably) her in the same manner. I often wonder why Unit-02 being disemboweled didn’t cause her to become disemboweled (though clearly it caused her a great deal of pain).--Matt 06:59, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

The lance of longinus is special and was able to harm her when it harmed her eva. But when they disemboweled her they didn't use the lance so it didn't affect her. It was the lance that was special.

Alternate Ending?

I have done extensive work in viewing and lecturing about this series, and I have severe doubts as to the "alternate ending” theory for this movie. It is quite clear that the movie is compatible, even synchronous, with the last two episodes of the television version. Episode 25 reveals glimpses of the real world that only make sense once in once seen in the move (Auska under water in Unit-02 for example). The odd story of the last two series episodes is clearly a cognitive version of The End of Evangelion likely occurring mostly at around the point that the movie exits the world of the temporal (the sandbox scene).

The movie shows us the physical picture of Shinji's state and the physical consequences of his ultimate choice whereas the series end shows us the internal state of Shinji's dilemma over choosing oneness, illusion, or true individuality. The ending of the series shows him breaking the "glass" of his perfect yet illusory reality and standing over what appears to be earth with the other containers of his self congratulating him on his choice. This is not an alternate ending but rather a perfectly compatible picture of the mental impression created by the decision process that led Shinji to choose individuality. The aforementioned congratulation scene can be said to represent Shinji congratulating himself for having overcome his own fear of others and returning to a state of other-ness that is shown in the movie. Simply because the series end has a much happier tone to it that does not preclude the possibility that it runs alongside the movie and not in opposition to it.

The only official support for the "alternate ending" theory I am aware of comes from English voice director and actor Amanda Winn-Lee's commentary on the ADV films The End of Evangelion DVD. As wonderful a job as she did on Rei (the only palatable voice in the whole of the English dub) I don't believe her theory to be authoritative. Her opinions come for her interpretation of research not directly from Hideaki Anno. Unless someone can produce confirmation from a secondary (Japanese cast, crew, and official material) or primary (Hideaki Anno himself) source this alternate ending theory may only be considered a tertiary assertion and therefore not necessarily authoritative. Therefore, in lack of such support, I propose that the sentences:

The movie presents an alternate ending to the popular animated series Neon Genesis Evangelion.

When the studio could afford it, the true ending, The End of Evangelion, was created as an alternative to these episodes.

be changed to reflect either a sync with the series ending or at least to reflect the ambiguity of the state of the movie in relation of the series.--Matt 04:13, 4 March 2006 (UTC)

I think calling the movie the "true" ending is a biased statement. The word "alternate" is not biased, but which of the endings is "true" is a matter of opinion. Therefore it should be eliminated from the aritcle. User:Mosesroth

I can't believe this is even up for discussion. The mental journey Shinji goes thru in 26 is totally unlike what he goes thru in 26' from EoE. The implication from stating the year 2016 in episode 26 is that the instrumentation is taking a long time. The allusion to parallel journeys by others and the statement that only Shinji's is shown due to time constraints implies that his situation is not unique and everyone else is going thru a similar process. The original episode 25 may have been based on the storyline that was used in Air 25', but the philosophical theme of 25 is one that openly examines whether the "reality" of 25' is significant at all, and the Instrumentality processes of 26 and 26' are totally different. I guess it just goes to show, Hideaki really did want everyone to understand the significance of the story by themselves instead of being told what it was by someone else. But please don't mangle the article with your lack of comprehension; no clear answer is still better than the wrong one. 74.61.41.118 15:13, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm removing any statement saying EoE is or is not an alternate ending, and replacing them with statements that explain, instead, that there is controversy. I could link to forums of debates here as proof, but I think the above debate is proof enough that people do indeed have those beliefs.

What Does Gendo Say?

When he is talking to Ritsuko and he says "the truth is.." then there is no audio. I m dying to know 202.7.183.131 08:21, 23 December 2005 (UTC)

This is intentional. Originally, an explosion covered up that line, but even after the explosion was cut, the director (of the original japanese version, Hideaki Anno) wanted the line muted anyway. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 67.190.241.144 (talk • contribs) .

Isn't it obvious that Gendo says "the truth is-" When the audio is cut off that he really is saying "I love you.", I could see the sound cutting off because he isn't really the type of person you would hear say "I love you" the director knew this and cut the sound off. I mean they did have a relationship together (she says in the series "I'm not happy anymore even when you make love to me!" When she say's "Liar." she gets shot. Could there be anything else he could possibly say? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.77.82.165 (talk • contribs) .

In context of what is happening in that scene, it seems more likely that he is saying something about her mother, Naoko Akagi. From what I understand, Gendo and Naoko had a relationship (presumably romantic) before she died. In the scene, Ritsuko has wired the Magi system (based on her mother's personality) to destroy the Geo-front. When she hits the switch to detonate, however, the Magi refuses and she is shocked and then Gendo's muted line comes in a little later. A major theme with Ritsuko is that she feels people abandon her, for example; she feels that Gendo abandons her in favor of Rei. It seems to me that he may say something regarding Naoko loving him, or him loving Naoko, or something of that nature. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Gchzg (talk • contribs) .

In my opinion, "I needed you." just fits the context perfectly. I'm not giving any detailed explanations though. ~Nih 17:20, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

It was true that Gendo needed Ritsuko, thus there was no point in her telling him liar. -- ReyBrujo 02:35, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

She was, however, in a battered state of mind, she has a tendancy to abuse herself that way...

But realy, he could by saying any number of things, "The truth is... I love you.", "The truth is... you've been a neusance.", "The truth is... you're just like your mother.", "The truth is... you did look fat in that dress.", "The truth is... I like pudding." It's up to the viewer to interpret, and they've proven to interpret it in a variety of ways... --72.140.12.15 21:42, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Most people have said that the line is "Truly/The truth is: I never loved your mother.

I agree with the person up there who said "...the truth is I love you". That makes a lot of sense. Of course he could be saying ANYTHING at all, but you need to think for a second. I think we should have it written somewhere that there are ideas on what he said, and list a few, but sense we are not allowed to post OUR own ideas, it should be written it is the veiwer's choice and interpretation and there is no absolute correct word he used there. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.83.177.190 (talk) 05:37, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

I added that there are some ideas, and theories, I hope thats ok. Feel free to delete it or edit it if needed.(I did this last night) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 68.83.177.190 (talk) 19:13, 17 December 2006 (UTC).

It is worth mentioning that the translation of Gendo's part is "Dr. Ritsuko Akagi, I truly...". Changing it from "I truly..." to "The truth is..." totally changes the context of the statement. Quill Est Patent 17:47, 23 February 2007 (UTC)

He said something that she didn't expect to hear. She thought he was a liar who had used her and her mother for his own selfish reasons. I think he said something about he truly loved/loves Yui. This was a positive reflection on his character and she was able to release all her anger and jealousy just before she died. And no I don't care what anyone else thinks, because I have noticed that very many people who watch Evangelion don't understand it and aren't able to think critically. 74.61.41.118 15:16, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

• Or that he was truly sorry for being about to shoot her. Implication: he cares about her. And not as lame as the whole "I love X" thing. Again, surprising positive reflection on his character... and unlike the Yui statement, it's something which isn't touched upon elsewhere in the movei. Talking about "how I loved your mother" wouldn't have been surprising because her mother is the one who just betrayed him for her; or if it was surprising, it wouldn't have been believable because on that subject, at that moment, he had no credibility. ALL IN ALL: the whole point of the movie was that it's all just made up, it's not real, and that the viewer should move on with their life after seeing it and not worry about it. This very article is a contradiction of the idea that the viewer is supposed to think about the series and movie for themself... which, tbh, is probably why it's in the state it's in. 74.61.41.118 18:05, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

I can't figure out why this conversation is even here in the first place. Without a definitive statement from Anno, or anyone else involved with the production of EoE, it's nothing but speculation as to what Gendo says, and therefore isn't proper content for the article. Also, 74.61.41.118, I'd appreciate you toning down the attitude a bit, the Don't be a dick policy applies here also. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 20:03, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

"In context of what is happening in that scene, it seems more likely that he is saying something about her mother, Naoko Akagi. From what I understand, Gendo and Naoko had a relationship (presumably romantic) before she died. In the scene, Ritsuko has wired the Magi system (based on her mother's personality) to destroy the Geo-front. When she hits the switch to detonate, however, the Magi refuses and she is shocked and then Gendo's muted line comes in a little later. A major theme with Ritsuko is that she feels people abandon her, for example; she feels that Gendo abandons her in favor of Rei. It seems to me that he may say something regarding Naoko loving him, or him loving Naoko, or something of that nature." I just quoted that paragraph, because it made me think that Gendou really said "The truth is. . . Your mother loved me". It really makes sense. Because yeah surely ritsuko's mother have had a relationship with Gendou. Okay, to make myself clear, i'll ask you guys something: Why do you guys think that the Magi system rejected the self destruct option that ritsuko made? -Because Naoko still loved Gendou, thats why the magi system didnot blow off the Geofront with Gendou inside. Why doesn't Gendo love Yui Ikari? -He just used Yui to get to Nerv thru ikaris reaserches. Why did Naoko choked rei when rei said "old hag"? -because naoko can't think that Gendou will say that to her. Well thats what I caught here. But it's still up to the viewers to analyze what did Gendou really said. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 119.94.225.104 (talk) 15:17, 1 January 2010 (UTC)

The final scene

This section needs a major rewrite. The current version has a lot of arbitrary spelling errors and also strongly indicates original research -- it even changes into the first person narrative at one point. I am way too lazy and uninformed to rewrite this thing from scratch, but if someone could find some sources that are a little more reliable than hot air, I'd wager that would improve the quality a tad. -- Ashmodai 14:45, 14 February 2006 (UTC)

I cleaned it a bit, tightened the wording a little. --Matharvest 20:42, 27 February 2006 (UTC)

We need sources. Plenty of them. -- ReyBrujo 02:33, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Before I created an account, I added a short paragraph to this section about the possibility of Sartre's influence on the ending, and I see now that it has vanished. I admit that attributing his philosophy to the ending is not cited anywhere I know; however, his name appears under the Neon Genesis Evangelion article as an important influence on the series, so I really don't see why my stuff was deleted. It's not implausible at all; it's only not cited anywhere I know. If left as only a possibility, I fail to see the problem. -- (Calliope22 (talk) 03:43, 29 July 2008 (UTC))

Well, that constitutes original research. If you can't cite something like that, it's easily contestable. Icarus of old (talk) 15:15, 29 July 2008 (UTC)

Isn't this statement immediately contradicting itself?

Either AT-fields of humans are impenetrable except if you get their trust, or they're not. This statement first says only trust can break the field and then goes to say Lilith is able to force her way through Aoba's AT Field in the next sentence. Does this passage need to be edited?

"In order for people to willingly let down their AT-Fields for her, Lilith takes on several forms and approaches each human individually in the form of the person he or she loves the most (as trust is the only force that breaks an AT-Field), or simply forces her way past their AT-Fields if he or she has no loved one (as is the case with Aoba); these actions reduce every human to a pool of LCL." —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Shan246 (talk • contribs) .

Yes, the sentence needs to be rewritten. Love and trust seem to be the only way in which humans can penetrate the other's AT Field. However, you can't do it with any other method (no matter how hard they tried, Shinji was always extremely protective of himself and others could see into his heart). Note that Angels seem to be able to break past AT Fields (Lilith forcing her way into Aoba, the Evas attacking Angels, or Kaworu being able to befriend Shinji). Original research, though, as there are no sources for this and we can only speculate. -- ReyBrujo 02:32, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

Is that realy how it went down? I find it hard to beleive that nobody loved Aoba, we certainly never see him in those sorts of situations, but he always seemed so... happy, you know? It seems more practical to me, and I'm just throwing this out for speculation and discussive purposes, that Lilith was already collecting the souls of those who have left the confinement of their own AT fields (i.e. Died...) and that collaboration of souls was reaching out to those who hadn't joined yet to help ease their transition. --KefkaTheClown 21:48, 9 June 2006 (UTC)

Did Asuka die?

At the end of the movie Asuka is with Shinji on the beach, but wasn't it the people that were reduced to LCL the ones that could regain their individuality. So then by Asuka being alive does this mean she didn't die from the EVA series attack or was she also harvested into the egg to become part of the mass personality being? If she was then that means that anyone can come back to life or if they wish they can stay in that mass personality being. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.252.81.124 (talk • contribs) .

Although this is not the right place to discuss this, it is too strong a pull to resist answering :-)

My first reaction was that she did not die. However, reason forces me to acknowledge she did. Alas, note that corpses of Nerv's workers also transformed into LCL. Putting it into perspective, you could say that the AT Field exists some time after the person died, and that putrefaction is just the weakening process of an AT Field. Thus, recently dead people whose AT Field is still keeping the corpse together were able to join the sea of LCL, and thus were able to rebirth if their minds really wished to do so. -- ReyBrujo 02:22, 17 May 2006 (UTC)

I'd have to say she didn't die. As a matter of fact, neither Misato nor Ritsuko died. Because if you notice, you see one of the Lilith/Reis over Misato and Ritsuko turning them into LCL before they actually died. The same thing happened to Asuka. Rei probably just saved them from death because she got to know them. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.166.216.3 (talk • contribs) .

Well, I think Rei/lilith took the soul of every human even if they were dead. Asuka got desintegrated from the explosion that was caused by the initiation of the human instrumentality project, so if she was there at the end then that means that the souls in evangelion exist separate from lcl, which is their bodies.-- L337M4G3

Her arm was split, her eye pierced, her bowels torn, and, presumably, she was entirely punched full of holes. If not physically then mentally (thought the splitting of her arm seems to indicate the damage is physical and mental).--Matt 01:17, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

I thought up the reason for why Asuka wasn't ripped open but her eye and arm got damaged. You see, when asuka got the Lance of Longinus through her head she was very syncronized with her eva, therefor she got physically damaged by the lance( but not syncronized enough to get her brain pierced ). Her syncronization rate went down from the pain and didn't have her insides ripped out, but later when the eva went beserk she had the sync. rate so high she suffered the full consecuences of the lance cutting through her arm. She still got disintegrated from the explosion so she died yes or yes. I am aware that in some episodes the pilots got hurt as much as the eva, but what other explaination is there? -- L337M4G3 21:53, 29 June 2006

The reason only her eye and arm got damaged was because she was turned into lcl right before all the Lances pierced unit 02. She was already lcl when unit 02 got disemboweled and before the explosion. One more thing that proves she didn't die is the fact that she didn't have any damages to her body except for her arm and eye. If she really got disitegrated it would show damage to her body like on her arm and eye. So she didn't die.

Or being so syncronized with your eva and having your at field damaged by the lance damages your own at field and asuka couldn't use her at shield to correctly shape the lcl, sort of like when rei was falling apart. There were 2 peaks of syncronization, when she got the lance through her head, and then through her arm. -- L337M4G3 19:03, 7 July 2006

I agree with what the other guy said. I don't think she died at all unless you consider losing your at-field and being turned into lcl death. Other than that there isn't any proof that she actually died. You never actually see her body as with the other deaths in EoE. Here's my theory. If you listen to what was going before the battle when Asuka was talking with the eva, she found out that her mother's soul was always looking after her. So I wouldn't think that they would just let the mother say that without her actually living up to her words. I think that before Asuka could be killed by the lances and before she could get disemboweled Asuka's mother's soul went out of sync with Asuka and sacrificed the eva. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.166.216.3 (talk • contribs) .

Well, It still doesn't explain how she could've survived the complete and utter desintigration of her and the eva. Notice that when rei self destructed her eva it was only an explotion comparable with an n² mine. if you would see the explotion cause by the start of the Human Instrumentality Project, you can notice that it insinerated several km's of the earth's crust. The eva was already riped apart at the moment, showing how fragile it is.-- L337M4G3 23:03, 13 July 2006

If Asuka was already turned into lcl before the disintergration of the eva and everything around it then it couldn't have effected her. Like the other guy said she had been saved from being disemboweled by her mother's soul inside the eva. This is the reason at the end of the movie she doesn't have a scratch on her BODY and yet has bandages on her eye and her right arm which were both damaged in the previous battle. If she was disemboweled she would have wounds on her body just like her arm and eye. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 216.166.216.3 (talk • contribs) .

She did not die yet became either lcl or was protected by her mother this point is left up to the viewer to chose she later came back after restoring her at field which points towards her becoming lcl sometime during this event. The reason for the wounds were they are is from the fact of its the souls image of itself that is returned from the lcl she remembered this body as hers that would point to her being injured then turning to lcl. She may of been disemboweled but its unlikely even though she could look anyway even if she was.--72.93.208.210 07:46, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

Long story short, you leave Instrumentality once you decide that "I like myself and want to live as an Individual". Asuka's character arc climaxes when she realizes "my Mother's soul was in Eva-02 all along, I was never really abandoned". Yes, she does die in the fight with the MP Evas. But basically...the Rei/Adam/Lilith Hybrid has become a Living God, and as such, can Transcend Time itself. Notice that Avatars of Rei appear both when Misato dies (freeze frame it), and when Ritsuko dies....even though this is before when Third Impact technically "begins". And Asuka dies after both of them! -->The idea is that just like with Fuyutsuki and Maya, etc., Rei/Lilith Avatars are "gathering up everyone's souls" and they can even do it for people who died relatively close to Third Impact, even if it was before it (Kaji probably died too long before; we're talking a matter of a few hours on the same day here). ---->Thus, Asuka "really died", as did Misato and Ritsuko. However, all three of them were "gathered up by Rei/Lilith", their souls that is, and put into Instrumentality. What Shinji did was comparable to how the Matrix Trilogy ended; he made the choice to leave, and now "anyone who wants to leave, can leave, though the vast majority of people really don't want to leave the ignorant bliss". But Asuka already made her choice, effectively, when she pulled herself out of depressive tupor in Eva-02 and fought the JSSDF. So she was thus one of the first to "come back" because she's already made her choice. It's implied that Asuka and Shinji are not the only ones, just the first...--Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 18:25, 16 February 2009 (UTC)

Truth of Second Impact picture

On the picture of the computer screen, along with anime information, is a set of binary (0,1) digits. Has anyone attempted to interpret this, or is just a bunch of nonsense? --Dch111 19:41, 5 July 2006 (UTC)

I decodifide it, but it's just giberish, unless it's in japanese. And I think there's a four, yes a four, first number of fourth column of the fourth row.--L337M4G3 6:12, 6 July 2006 (UTC)

I believe it is four, on fourth column, fourth line, first number. Four four, and it would have been some sort of jynx. (Pronunciation of Four (Sa) is homonym, also for Death, which is same case for Chinese and Korean, since number-pronunciation-base is very similar to each other.) --Dooly00000

Interesting, I didn't know that. However, it seems rather strange that the translation is in chinese/korean being evangelion a japanese production. I also noticed that four, one and zero are very close to each other in the numberpad, so it could have also been a typo, but it doesn't really matter if the one who put that four knows chinese. --L337M4G3 5:39, 14 august 2006 (UTC)

Well, NERV also has branches in the US, Germany and China as you can see from the picture of the MAGI system being hacked.65.49.214.73 21:09, 19 August 2006 (UTC)

The Final Scene : quote from Tiffany Grant

I really wonder what was the point of adding this quote from Tiffany Grant about Asuka's line. We already have what seems to be the definite answer about it : a comment by Yuko Miyamura, who explains that she was the one who came up with this line and why she came up with it, and she even gives us hints about what Anno wanted to express in this scene.

Isn't that quote from people directly involved in Evangelion enough ?

Why bother adding the personal interpretations of people who have nothing to do with Eva except release it in the USA, moreover when they contradict the ones who came up with the line ? Matt Greenfield didn't "direct" the TV series, and except for bussiness reasons with Gainax representative, I highly doubt the people at ADV had any discussion with the Evangelion staff, about all these matters.

Folken de Fanel 10:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

Because of the lulz. Official dubs and releases always demonstrate poor understanding of the characters with their voice acting; why shouldn't we explicitly show that they don't understand the meaning of the show itself either? 74.61.41.118 15:23, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Because the quote you're referring to also has the line, "Of course, Anno is quite passionate about the idea that every person should decide for him or herself what Eva means to them." In other words, the creator knew (or had some idea) of what he wanted to express, but wanted it to remain ambiguous to provoke thought among the viewers. What's wrong with describing multiple perspectives? Gamer 2k4 (talk) 19:40, 4 May 2008 (UTC)

In response to the second post here, I'd say that nothing demonstrates ignorance better than making blanket statements about an entire industry or stating that one understands an intentionally abstract and ambiguous work of art better than someone else - let alone someone who has worked extensively with it and actually met and spoken to the creator. Matt Greenfield directed the English adaptation of the series, not the series itself, so that statement is admittedly somewhat misleading when taken out of context. But the statement that individuals such as Tiffany Grant and Matt Greenfield "have absolutely nothing to do with Eva" is startlingly uninformed. I'm not sure what Tiffany Grant would have to do that she hasn't already done to prove that her personal interest in analyzing Eva and thoroughly portraying her character extends significantly beyond the desire to profit off of it. Aside from clearly demonstrating her interest in anime, and Eva in particular, as a personal hobby in addition to a career, Grant has personally exchanged dialogue with the likes of Hideaki Anno and Yuko Miyamura in regards to the series. Not to mention, ADV's distribution of the series was officially licensed and (contrary to popular belief) SUPERVISED by Gainax and Anno himself. I think, given these facts, that Tiffany Grant and Matt Greenfield are just as qualified to offer their interpretations of the show as anyone - in fact, they're more qualified than most people, because they have been both personally and professionally involved in the series. Gatotsu911 (talk) 20:28, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Rei and Gendo's glasses

Regarding the line about Gendo's glasses being shown broken in Rei's room...this, to me, is a small but important hint (especially to those seeing EoE for the first time) that something major is about to happen. In NGE, at the start of the series when Rei is stil loyal to Gendo, she treats the glasses with care and respect, then is shown near the end of the series squeezing them as if she's trying to break them when her feelings about Gendo have seriously shifted. For her to actually break the glasses is a big change, and considering how she usurps Gendo's control of Third Impact, I think it's significant enough to warrant mentioning, if not in the write-up for the "episode" than as a small note later on in the article. It's already noted in Rei's article, also. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 03:00, 4 February 2007 (UTC)

This may be because she is Rei III. Rei II was very loyal to Gendo. Rei I was very contemptuous against Ritsuko's mother. Each has a slightly different personality. Rei III directly disobeys Gendo in the movie when she goes to Lillith. It is likely that Rei III is enemy with Gendo. Perhaps due to contact with that "Ring" angel that penetrated her in the director's cut episodes. Logical paradox 14:54, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

In the hospital

Concerning Shinji and Asuka in the hospital: It's been about a year since I've seen EoE, and I don't plan on breaking it out anytime soon, but as I recall when the view pans back from the bed after Shinji rolls Asuka onto her back, the sheets are down below her waist revealing her panties. I've changed the wording in the article back to "nearly naked body," but I could be wrong. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 02:40, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

No worries your correct.He rolls her over some of the medical equipment attatched to her falls off and shes lying with her shirt partially open and only panties on.--72.93.208.210 07:51, 14 June 2007 (UTC)

First scene

Aren't we missing something? The very first scene, where an unknown guy floats over a destructed place filled with water, still seems completely disconnected from the rest of the movie to me, but I think I'm just missing something... And it might something that should be in the article as well. Plus, water does play a role in the movie, since it's in the beginning, in the end (mixed with blood), and those weird drops along the whole movie... And I really wanted to know who is that person. :P --Caue (T | C) 01:41, Saturday 2007-04-14 (UTC)

Isn't it just Shinji? A shortish guy in school clothes with brown hair averting his face... and the next scene features none other than Shinji. --Gwern (contribs) 06:17 14 April 2007 (GMT)

He doesn't look like Shinji to me. And I had the feeling it was at the same time Shinji was in the hospital... But I just noticed now that it is the same place where Shinji first met Kaworu... And it's also the last place in episode 24, as I remember... Plus it would be a really weird plot hole to just show a character like that... So, yeah, it makes sense to think it's Shinji... But then again, I don't recall any version of the two last episodes to be so reasonable. Well, I don't even know why I care about something that small enough to post about it in here. Maybe I'm just missing IRC. --Caue (T | C) 18:53, Saturday 2007-04-14 (UTC)

I took it to be Shinji as well. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 13:09, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

I've never even considered the possibility that it could be anyone other than Shinji. Why would it be? Also, Shinji's character design in the film is slightly altered from the series, both to look more realistic and to reflect his psychologically barren state. Gatotsu911 (talk) 20:32, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Here's a discussion at evageeks.org about Asuka's bathtub scene in ep. 24 that segues into a discussion about this scene...picks up in earnest on page 5. The general consensus, from what I see in skimming through it, is that it's Shinji. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 22:47, 8 May 2008 (UTC)

Bach's Air

The references to this piece as "Air on the G String" should be removed, as this is not the official title of the piece, and not a correct reference for the arrangement used in the film.

See Air on the G String. Xenofan 29A 21:52, 28 June 2007 (UTC)

What else would it be called? The G string article mentions the misnomer, even giving EoE as an example, the EoE article links to it, and I don't see any less misleading way to name it. --Gwern (contribs) 06:44 1 July 2007 (GMT)

Binary

In the trvia section, about the truth of the Second Impact, binary is visible in the picture. Some contributer said that the binary was gibberish; however, he must have made assumptions about the character set, and he appears to have assumed it to be ISO 8859-1. However, it is possible, or probable, that the Japanese character set, Shift JIS, would have been used. Any experts on encoding, or any native Japanese speakers?

If it meant anything, it would just be another joke or random interestingness like the readable text in that picture. 74.61.41.118 15:26, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

No, there's no need for a character set. Those may be tiny 10x7 monochrome bitmaps of glyphs. The way the bits are arranged does not lend itself to any character set in use unless it's 7-bit ASCII to be read vertically because there's no 10-bit character set. So if the arrangement isn't arbitrary, I don't see how anyone could assume it's ISO-8859, Shift-JIS or the like. --217.87.80.65 (talk) 12:49, 26 December 2007 (UTC)

Red Cross book

from [1] as linked from somewhere on WP.

The RCB mentions two parallel Instrumentality projects that were going on at the end of Air; the one by Gendou and Rei in the basement, and the one by SEELE in the sky. How exactly did these projects differ? Did one end up controlling the events that happened? What was the purpose of, specifically, Gendou's Instrumentality project?

The definition of "Angel" given in the RCB's glossary is "Beings originated from the source of life called Lilith." Is this in error, did the understanding of their origins change, or was there some fundamental misunderstanding even among the characters of the show (such as Kaoru) that led to the confusion about their identity? Kaoru doesn't seem to distinguish between the AT fields of "normal humans" vs "angels"; in particular, the original show and even the movie doesn't seem to support the later assertions in the game that humans and angels are two fundamentally different life forms. Rei makes it even more confusing, of course, with her simultaneous naivete and physical presence, and the way she likes to appear as an "angel" to the dying and deceased and to Shinji (even if he's not dead) + during the end of ep 24 with a mega-strength AT field.

And finally, who is it talking during the final section of the "notes" in RCB for ep 26'? The title of the section, "People's future // lies in the hands of Ikari's son." suggests Shinji. But it sounds like Asuka. I can certainly imagine her having that dialogue with reflections of others inside her mind, like in 25 and 26, and the end of the dialogue coinciding with Shinji's attempt to strangle her... and when he gives up, her finishing up the dialogue with her statement "disgusting." I didn't see anything about this elsewhere; is this something that people talk about? 74.61.41.118 15:40, 22 July 2007 (UTC)

Per [results of the AFD for the Red Cross Book], I will take care of this at some point this week. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 17:46, 12 January 2009 (UTC)

What happened to the image?!

Why was it deleted? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 22:16, 7 August 2007 (UTC)

I agree there is a serious lack of images in this article Logical paradox 14:56, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I've spoken with someone about this. The image is going to be restored; apparently there was a problem with either an admin or a bot running loose. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 16:07, 8 August 2007 (UTC)

I see the image has been restored. Good. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 18:08, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Live action sequence

Hi

Please attach the live action sequence video if it is legal to do so. was never released commercially so I think it is ok?

I think a lot of eva fans will enjoy it.

Here it is: http://www.evamonkey.com/alternate_live_action.php

Logical paradox 14:48, 8 August 2007 (UTC)Pat

Takimoto Tatsuhiko who talks by "BS Anime Yawa" about Eva.

http://stage6.divx.com/user/Suigintou/video/1888/Takimoto-Tatsuhiko-who-talks-by-BS-Anime-Yawa-about-Eva--

This is an interesting video I found online about EoE. If anyone can translate it that would really be great.

Logical paradox 15:56, 9 August 2007 (UTC)

Rei = angel of death

Rei is a clone made of part Lilith and Yui. In EOE she plays a key role taking into herself Adam.

But I have noticed no-one has identified her as the angel of death. Each character before he/she dies sees Rei. This occurs even before Instrumentality - for example Misato and Ritsuko see her before dying. Likewise everyone sees her before they turn into LCL goo. Logical paradox 13:41, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Doesn't Maya Ibuki see Ritsuko and not Rei? --Gwern (contribs) 16:13 12 August 2007 (GMT)

Sorry, but you're not even close. The characters are not "dying," they are simply losing their individual identities through the anti-AT field. As far as Misato, Ritsuko, and the other slain NERV personnel go, that's not clear, but I think that Rei/Lilith is collecting their souls since they will not be able to be affected by the anti-AT field since they're dead. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 17:09, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Maya saw Ritsuko because she was already dead and part of instrumentality at the time, so she could come back and draw Maya with her. Some people think that the person you see when drawn into Instrumentality was selected because they would be the most likely to draw you in. For all the others they saw Rei, either the same Rei, or many dead clones. But yes, she was collecting souls for instrumenality. Because many saw her just prior to their deaths before instrumentality started, supports her being the angel of death. EDIT: also Fuyutski was greeted by Rei turning into Yui before his death, so Yui was in instrumentality too. 124.169.37.39 (talk) 16:27, 18 February 2008 (UTC)

Trivia section

As I get time, I'll work on moving the information out of the trivia section (if anyone else wants a go at this, be my guest). Something that I think can be done is a subsection regarding the differences between the Japanese and English versions, as a number of the trivia items address these differences. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 04:17, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

Tiffany Grant's quote and OR

Regarding the last edit which I reverted: I don't think that Grant's quote technically constitutes OR, since she reiterates information which is in the preceding paragraph, and then relates something that her husband said that the series creator said. Neither she nor Greenfield make their own guesses as to the meaning of the final line. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 18:58, 27 November 2007 (UTC)

What is the First Impact?

Throuht the entire series and movies the first impact is not clearly explained. To my understanding the first impact is when the egg of lilith comes crashing into the Earth. Please help me clear any misconception. Thank you. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 74.186.5.97 (talk) 16:30, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

See here. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 16:47, 27 June 2008 (UTC)

Unfortunately that page is dead. If I recall correctly the first impact was Adam's "egg" striking antartica, or Lilith's "egg" (the geofront) striking the earth, I have also seen this written as what caused the "Big Bang" that created life. Anyone else feel free to correct me if I am mistaken. J.Rly (talk) 22:01, 21 January 2011 (UTC)

I believe the RCB specifies Adam struck first. --Gwern (contribs) 22:11 21 January 2011 (GMT)

Major edit banners taken care of?

I think that the article has been cleaned up enough that the "weasel words" banner can be removed. Has enough of the really major OR been removed to justify removing that banner also? I'd really like to submit this article for a peer review, but it can't be done until these issues are addressed. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 03:12, 14 February 2009 (UTC)

Image for article

I've always liked the image that is being used for this article, but I wonder if it wouldn't be a bad idea to also include an image of the DVD for the movie, with Shinji and Asuka on the beach and Rei/Lillith's head in the background? Agree/disagree? Willbyr (talk | contribs) 21:54, 11 May 2009 (UTC)

a poster is fine. we dont need a DVD cover for a movie. that usually happens for Anime.Bread Ninja (talk) 18:31, 1 October 2009 (UTC)

Renewal Section

The section about the renewal release reads like the live action footage has been edited back into the film. Did this happen? Or was it an extra-feature? DOes anyone know?87.174.230.181 (talk) 18:23, 11 June 2009 (UTC)

It happens right at the beginning of the film. Really it's just "more Instrumentality scenes"; just as Shinji saw a happy alternate reality in the TV ending, he sees an unhappy live-action reality in which he doesn't even exist, and the people he knew lead boring and depressing lives. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 17:57, 17 June 2009 (UTC)

In this context, it's worth linking Bochan_bird's translation of the scrapped live-action scenes. --Gwern (contribs) 15:21 20 June 2009 (GMT)

Newtype review

Ran across this transcription of the Newtype USA review of EoE - at least, the first review: http://www.neo-geo.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-34790.html

It prompted a quite interesting rebuttal letter from Manga Entertainment: http://www.evamonkey.com/writings_gleicher01.php and reading around, it prompted a number of internal changes at NU. (It's worth remembering that ADV apparently passed on EoE and Manga Entertainment wound up licensing it, and ADV owned Newtype USA.) I was wondering whether to put this in the English or Reception sections? --Gwern (contribs) 21:58 29 October 2009 (GMT)

Maybe ask for confirmation with Nihonjoe (the magazines archive suggests he owns the first issue) that it is an accurate transcript, and then cite the original magazine? It's a bit tricky as to where to put them, but I'd tend to stick it in reception - summarising the Newtype review, then saying 'Following Newtype USA's review, Gleicher wrote a rebuttal to the magazine.' and them summarising the rebuttal. Did any further drama result from that? --Malkinann (talk) 03:35, 30 October 2009 (UTC)

I've asked Nihonjoe (and was shocked to learn of Fg2 (talk · contribs)'s death!). I don't know anything about further drama, except vague assertions in forums that NU was very careful from then on to be nicer to Eva material. (Did NU ever retract or issue a correction? I dunno. Maybe Nihonjoe can look at subsequent issues & tell us.) --Gwern (contribs) 15:41 30 October 2009 (GMT)

I'll look it up as soon as I have the time. I have a whole pile of items to look up. As I recently moved, I am still sorting out where everything is and making it easier to access for requests such as these. Thanks for your patience. ···日本穣^? · 投稿 · Talk to Nihonjoe 02:20, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

No problem. If I get impatient, I can just use that forum copy. It's not as if I really doubt its general accuracy, after all. --Gwern (contribs) 02:30 31 October 2009 (GMT)

While useful for archival purposes, and you should go ahead with this...I must comment that I question the objectivity of either NewTypeUSA (run by ADV, who lost the movie rights to Manga Entertainment at the time) or Manga Entertainment itself; not just objectivity, but reading through it, they seem kind of shallow and like they're just more fanboys who don't know what they're talking about. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 17:44, 31 October 2009 (UTC)

Heh. Neither of them are objective, but the Newtype review is so stunningly moronic and fraught with conflicts of interest that it's interesting to include, and of course then you need to include the rebuttal. --Gwern (contribs) 22:26 31 October 2009 (GMT)

...if you feel compelled to include the admittedly "moronic" Newtype article, then it does make sense to include the somewhat more coherent reply, yeah. --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 00:19, 1 November 2009 (UTC)

Light and Sound review

"Anno Hideaki allegedly created the two episodes contained here in response to death threats from fans dissatisfied with the original conclusion to his anime sci-fi saga. No concessions are made to those who haven't seen the previous 24 episodes, although narrative coherence seems a lesser concern to the film-makers than the launching of a sustained audio-visual assault. The kaleidoscopic imagery momentarily topples into live action for the baffling climax, which alternates Disneyesque bromides ("Truth lies in your heart") with metaphysical blather ("So long as the earth, sun and moon exist, everything will be alright.")."

• "Neon Genesis Evangelion: The End of Evangelion", M.L., Sight and Sound, vol 13, issue 4, April 2003; pg 59

--Gwern (contribs) 14:31 10 November 2009 (GMT)

Contemporary Japanese Film review

Mark Schilling, ISBN 083480415-8, pg 334:

"Much of SF Japanimation is for teenage boys who get off on the cool futuristic gear and hot, big-eyed babes. The better products of the genre go deeper, however; they offer not only adolescent fantasies of super power and super sex, but bold speculations on the uneasy relationship between humanity and its high-tech servants. Will we remain in control of our machines - and our souls - or will we become absorbed in the rising tide of online information?

Now we have Hideaki Anno's Shinseiki Evangelion: Gekijoban Shito Shinsei, which throws so much visual and narrative data at its audience, including titles zapping by at almost subliminal speed, that total comprehension is all but impossible. The experience is similar to watching a kid play a Final Fantasy video game at warp speed or flipping through a Shonen Jump comic in a blur. For teenage SF geeks a pleasantly stimulating sensory, intellectual, and even emotional exercise. For clueless oldies, who still think Road Runner cartoons are the ultimate in animation, a baffling and annoyng one-and-a-half hours of anime at its most grandiose and pretentious.
Being a Chuck Jones fan, I incline towards the latter view, but I also admit that Anno and his colleagues are onto something. They are not only making state-of-the-art otaku entertainment, but creating a new pop-cultural synthesis. The film begins as a typical dark-future genre exercise. In the year 2015, fourteen-year old Shinji is summoned by his scientist father for a man-to-man talk. Dad wants him, not to get his grades up, but pilot a giant robot called Evangelion against mysterious entities called shito (angels) who are threatening the existence of humanity. This threat is not a new one. In the year 2000, the first of the shito, called Adam, caused an explosion at the South Pole that flooded the land and darkened the skies with ash. The climatic changes that followed led to the deaths of half the world's population.
Since then, the survivors have battled the shito using the giant robots, better known as Evas. In addition to Shinji, the pilot corps includes Asuka, a feisty redhead who is three-quarters Japanese, one-quarter German, and was raised in the United States; and Rei, a girl with blue-grey hair who is not as human as she looks. Following SF anime convention, they are both faunlike creatures with huge, glittering eyes, buff bodies, and steely wills.
Despite the large cast of characters, decades-spanning story, and a profusion of twenty-first-century jargon, much of it borrowed from early Christian sources, the film is essentially a Power Rangers episode writ large: i.e., super-teens piloting big, powerful machines and saving the world from monsters. We've seen it all before. What we haven't seen, however, is the way the film zaps back and forth through time, slams through narrative shifts and flashes explanatory text, in billboard-sized Chinese characters, at mind-bending speed. It's a hyper-charged phantasmagoria that defies easy comprehension, while exerting a hypnotic fascination. Watching, one becomes part of the film's multimedia data stream.

Shinseiki Evangelion is looking forward, toward an integration of all popular media - television, manga, movies, and video games - into new forms in which distinctions between real and virtual, viewer and viewed, man and machine, become blurred and finally cease to matter. O Brave New World, that has such animation in it."

--Gwern (contribs) 21:39 10 November 2009 (GMT)

I can't imagine how do you feel your fingers after so many transcripts, but it should be avoided to have so many quotes in a section.Tintor2 (talk) 21:52, 10 November 2009 (UTC)

One day & transcript at a time... Obviously I'm not going to put the whole thing into the article. But there are 6 or 7 sentences I think would be useful, such as the 'phantasmagoria' sentence or the 'state-of-the-art otaku entertainment' line. --Gwern (contribs) 01:11 11 November 2009 (GMT)

Cut ranking

From http://patrickmacias.blogs.com/er/2006/11/mama_inai.html :

The new issue of Japanese film magazine CUT is about to street....Anyways, here is CUT’s list of the 30 Greatest Anime Films of all-time, forever, always, never changing, no arguements. And for the record, I agree with about 5 of them....3. End of Evangelion"

Posted 18 November 2006. Hard to find any hits for CUT, but here are some other links verifying it's a real magazine and apparently fairly important: http://halcyonrealms.com/anime/evangelion-20-mari-illustrious-cut-magazine/ http://www.bloggersbase.com/anime--manga/evangelion-2-0-mari-illustrious-cut-magazine/ --Gwern (contribs) 17:00 21 November 2009 (GMT)

VA's opinion

i find the english voice actors opinion on the ending sequence rather trivial. I dont think they are notable enough to be mentioned as such way.Bread Ninja (talk) 16:33, 19 November 2009 (UTC)

You're kidding, right? Just... no, you're using the word 'trivial' again, which means you have no actual reasons or understanding and are just arguing. --Gwern (contribs) 20:21 19 November 2009 (GMT)

Why are the voice actors opinion important? i find it difficult, it's not according to WP:FRINGE.

but honestly? stop acting like a person and start talking more proffesional.Bread Ninja (talk) 17:24, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

You have no room to talk about anyone not sounding "professional" with your tenuous grasp of punctuation and grammar. As for the topic, I was so dumbfounded by the issue even being raised that I just shrugged it off as another pointless argument. Willbyr (talk | contribs) 18:14, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

I also liked 'stop acting like a person'. I'll do that just as soon as I figure out how I could not act like a person. --Gwern (contribs) 01:46 26 November 2009 (GMT)

Bread Ninja has raised the valid point that we might be accidentally treating the VA's personal opinions as if they reflect what the writers meant. They actually probably *do* meet "notability" standards...so long as we stress that "this is what the VA's said, not what Anno said". If we were to go by Tiffany Grant's comments (and I respect Grant and treat her as an authority on most matters) then End of Eva would be nothing more than "revenge on the fans" ( I strongly disagree with her view of End of Eva). Trivial and Notable I see being used almost interchangeably; I won't argue semantics. Nonetheless, Bread Ninja the actual quotes used from the VA's here seem to be about translation issues or comments that Anno told them, in which case I think its safe to say they are..."relevant". --Vi Veri Veniversum Vivus Vici (talk) 03:36, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Algernon

http://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/oldeva/2001-March/039345.html says:

The title of Movie Episode 26, "Magokoro wo kimi ni" is the Japanese translation of "Flowers for Algernon." How they translated that to "Pureheart for you" is beyond me..."

http://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/oldeva/2001-March/039347.html says:

'Actually, it's the Japanese title of "Charly", the _movie_ based on "Flowers for Algernon". The Japanese title of the novel is just "Algernon ni Hantaba o". Anno most probably chose to use the movie title because episode 26' was a "theatrical episode".'

Haven't found any other refs. Unfortunately, there's no ja article for Charly... --Gwern (contribs) 20:05 14 December 2009 (GMT)

Found another email, from years earlier & a Japanese dude: http://eva.onegeek.org/pipermail/oldeva/1997-August/000888.html

I really ought to just find a regular source for the Japanese title. --Gwern (contribs) 17:02 26 January 2010 (GMT)

Is Onegeek a reliale source?Tintor2 (talk) 20:34, 14 December 2009 (UTC)

It's just a mailing list - obviously. Some of its commentators are RSs, though; Carl Horn participates as 'once'. Olivier has provided a great deal of important information about cut scenes and alternate endings (especially of EoE), which have all checked out, but unfortunately I don't think he's officially published anything; Olivier falls into the annoying category of 'definitely correct & true, but the Wikipedia rules don't let us directly use him'. --Gwern (contribs) 21:07 27 December 2009 (GMT)

Accolades

http://afufu.net/freewill/2008/03/anime-reviews/ quotes:

“One of the Finest Achievements in the History of Visual Entertainment” –Play Magazine
“A Visual Tour-De-Force and a Mesmerizing Climax to One of the Greatest Anime Series of All Time” –Wizard Magazine

Truly, of many words there is no end. --Gwern (contribs) 21:31 30 January 2010 (GMT)

Which studio produced this?

I was wondering which studio produced the movie. I've read in several places that Production IG, not Gainax, did the animation for this film, and EoE is in the Works by Production IG category. However it is not mentioned anywhere in the article, and I always figured Gainax produced it (especially what with the photos of the graffiti on Gainax HQ). Maybe one studio did the animation and another the production?75.106.71.15 (talk) 19:55, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

• Answered my own question: I examined the Gainax article and under the works section read The End of Evangelion (1997/1998/1999)(Animation co-produced by Production I.G). Perhaps this should be mentioned in the article? 75.106.71.15 (talk) 20:02, 25 April 2010 (UTC)