Talk:Swami Vivekananda/GA2

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Chiswick Chap (talk · contribs) 15:23, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I shall be pleased to review this interesting and well-written article. Chiswick Chap (talk) 15:23, 23 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much for starting the review --Tito☸Dutta 07:32, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for promoting it to GA.--Nvvchar. 10:04, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Comments[edit]

Monastic vows: would be nice to know what the name Vivekananda means. Ananda = bliss; Viveka = wisdom, apparently.

Narendranath Datta was named Vivekananda in 1893 by Ajit Singh of Khetri. It is very difficult to translated the word "Vivek"/"Viveka", because may mean lots of things. I'll see if any scholarly work has any info. Tito☸Dutta 07:21, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have added from here Tito☸Dutta

The Swami himself explained the meaning of his name, ‘Viveka’ meaning “perception” in this reference [1] and 'Ananda' means “bliss” or “joy” as per this [[2] and his guru named him as Vivekananda. If this expatiation is adequate then I will add it in the text.--Nvvchar. 08:57, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Okay. Tito☸Dutta 09:04, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

As a child he was restless, but "played by meditating"? Perhaps "played at meditating"?

Fixed--Nvvchar. 08:57, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Education: Herbert Spencer is named in list, then discussed in next sentence. Could omit from list, link in sentence about him?

Done Tito☸Dutta 07:31, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Yogi's eyes. Might be useful to link this.

Yogi has been linked--Nvvchar. 08:57, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

1st visit to Ramakrishna not considered first meeting: why not? Seems surprising: does the source explain this?

In November 1881 Vivekananda met Ramakrishna in Surendranath Mitra's house in Kolkata. There Ramakrishna invited him to Dakshineswar. We had details in version. Now, after recent edits, I can see details of that portion. See the older version, if you want I can re-add content from there. Tito☸Dutta 07:31, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I have added content from older version. Tito☸Dutta 08:52, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Seems to have had a big influence on Christopher Isherwood. Should he be mentioned (beyond having a book cited) in Influence and legacy?

Added. Added the name of Aldous Huxley too Tito☸Dutta 08:08, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

North: quoted a Persian poem: in the original? (Did V. speak Persian like his father?)

Source does not mention it. Tito☸Dutta 08:08, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

He visited Nainital, ... Maybe "He visited the sacred sites of Nainital, ..." if that's the intended meaning. Would a map marked with these places be helpful here? Same goes for other travels.

Fixed.

Photos: did monks often have photos taken - it seems noteworthy?

Any photo of Vivekananda's childhood or early life has not been found. The first available photo was taken in 1887. Between 1886—1894, some 10 or so photos of Vivekananda are found. But, from the year 1893, when he visited the West, we have many images of Vivekananda of every year (mainly between 1893—1900). You may see commons:Swami Vivekananda. Yes, some of those photos are noteworthy. Tito☸Dutta 07:41, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

West: "with learned pandits". Gloss or wikilink.

Done. Wikilinked Tito☸Dutta 07:36, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

South: stayed with the Maharaja. Why would the Maharaja entertain a monk? There's something missing here. Presumably his fame was growing but the article doesn't indicate this. By the last paragraph he has "some of his most devoted disciples" but we haven't really heard anything about a following up to heere.

a) Could not find the portion Maharaja entertaining a monk. b) Actually we need an article "Madras Boys". Anyway, I have removed "most devoted" and linked Alasinga_Perumal#Relationship_with_Swami_Vivekananda where we have some information on these disciples Tito☸Dutta 08:17, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I meant: South: "stayed at the palace as a guest of Maharaja of Mysore Chamaraja Wodeyar." You have answered many small queries but not one large one, which is, how? I guess this is the mystery of fame, but somehow a wandering monk has travelled about and within a few years is being entertained at a Maharaja's palace, without explanation or comment. All the words like "notable" and "historic" can be included or crossed out, but the central mystery has not been touched upon. How did the Maharaja get to hear about him? Was it all word of mouth, was V. in the newspapers? Chiswick Chap (talk) 08:29, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Seshadri Iyer, who was an employee at the King's court, introduced Vivekananda to the king, I have added details. --Tito☸Dutta 09:04, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Will this explanation be adequate to his popularity which is attributed to two aspects as explained in this reference [3] pages 125-128. a)They were impressed by the amazing sweep and depth of his knowledge and the illumination of his spirit and his easy grace.of kingly manners and b) A sanayasin speaking English with full command was an astonishment.and his presentation of Vedanata meaning as the living Vedanta as “love” presented with quivering deep feeling touched every one? --Nvvchar. 09:25, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The facts just need to be stated simply with as few adjectives ('amazing', 'kingly', 'easy') as possible to maintain a neutral tone; direct, cited quotes can of course include such things. The issue was how they met and how the knowledge of his qualities spread, which is pretty much handled now, but the fact of his speaking English is certainly relevant, as is the effect of his knowledge and manners. Chiswick Chap (talk) 09:30, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

First visit: "historic": why? The reader doesn't know this yet. Are we assuming readers already know the story?

Removed the word "historic" Tito☸Dutta 07:31, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Parliament: brevity of his speech: presumably it was more than just these quotes.

Great Orator: lower case, probably.

Done, changed to "an orator" Tito☸Dutta 07:36, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]

texts to English: in English?

Fixed

Swmaiji - should be Swamiji, or just 'the Swami' as honorifics are generally deprecated here. Check other occurrences.

Fixed

We are twice told he influenced/inspired Bose and Tilak (Colombo to Almora and Influence and legacy).

Removed from Colombo to Almora

"V. is seen as a role model ..." - was seen in 2009, actually. Please provide date.

This has been removed, but was cited. Perhaps a quote with the ref would suit the article here.

GA Table[edit]

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	ok
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	lead - ok, though it contains 10 refs - should not be necessary if these are also in article. layout ok; weasel: generally ok, slight use of honorifics. fiction: n/a; lists: n/a.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.	excellent.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	excellent.
	2c. it contains no original research.	ok
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	See comments. All the main aspects are now satisfactorily covered. This article was formerly at FA and it would be good to see it with that status again, for which it will require more attention to flow and to detail.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).	Probably. There is a pressure in such articles to give a lot of detail of key devotional moments without necessarily explaining why these are important.
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.	Article certainly tries hard to be even in tone.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.	I think so. There's a steady amount of chatter but the article's shape hasn't changed much lately.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.	All images are from Commons and are tagged.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.	well-chosen.
	7. Overall assessment.	This interesting article on a major subject in the transmission of Hindu thought to the West is now well up to GA standard.

Thank you very much for the review. Tito☸Dutta 09:38, 24 September 2013 (UTC)[reply]