Talk:Sutradhar (caste)

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Sutradhars are Assamese but its not mentioned in wikipedia[edit]

Arjayay better you get littlebit more information about the Sutradhars and then change the article. Mrinal Gogoi editor (talk) 16:12, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Mrinal, are you familiar with Wikipedia's policy of using references to cite statements in articles? Please find some book or other reliable, published sources for the additions you wish to make. Thank you. Work permit (talk) 16:20, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

(edit conflict)Mrinal Gogoi editor - As already explained on your talk page, all additions must be Verifiable, and you must Citing Reliable sources, or they are likely to be deleted:- Arjayay (talk) 16:22, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

please discuss what you want to change and the sources you want to use. If they are not online, please quote what the source says. You are dramtically altering this article, which does have sources. We would like to help you. Work permit (talk) 18:55, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have added two sources, in addition to the one already in the article, that backs up the statement that Sutradhars are a caste of carpenters. One is from a book, another is on a published academic journal. Please stop reverting this section until you can provide better sources then these. Work permit (talk) 21:15, 3 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I seem to understand your confusion. You are identifying Sutradhar as a characrater in a Bhaona. This article is about the Sutradhar caste. If you wish to add your unsourced statements, please create a new article called Sutradhar (character) and put them there. Work permit (talk) 00:27, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Move page[edit]

Any objections to moving this page to Sutradhars (caste)? The article is (and should be) about the caste in general, not the caste in a particular region. And the title seems to create confusion from some other editors, who feel it is about a character in a Bhaona Work permit (talk) 12:55, 4 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Suthar redirect[edit]

I've redirected the Suthar page to this one. They refer to the same caste. Sutradhar is the more formal name. The Sutradhar article is much more developed with a rich source of references. All the main sources in the article use the word Sutradhar, not Suthar. -- Work permit (talk) 22:06, 23 September 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@Work permit: are you sure that the prevalence of Sutradhar in the cited sources is not because of selective, Bangladesh/East India-centric sourcing? I am pretty sure Suthar is the more common name, and I also know for sure that some of the sources in this version are not acceptable. That there may be confusion with some other use of the word is an irrelevance - that is why we have disambiguations etc.

I think you have moved this way too quickly and, as it happens, you've made a bit of a hash of things because the Suthar article still exists with some content. - Sitush (talk) 20:40, 1 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Hello @Sitush:. Thank you for your comments and attention to these articles. A month or so ago the Sutrahadr [1] and Suthar [2] articles were an unsourced mess. I've done what I could to salvage them, and welcome a serious editor such as yourself looking at these articles. I'm happy for the opportunity to collaborate with you to make them better.

I noted you deleted some of the sources as inappropriate. Regarding Risley, I was somewhat reluctant to cite him but the specific citation I used seemed innocuous and was backed by other sources (the translation of the word Sutradhar). I apologize I did not know how offensive that would be. Similar comment regarding the "states" series, it was an over-citation for another statement backed by other sources . I was not aware of Beall's list and that the journal of multidisciplinary studies was on it, but the statement was also backed by published sources. Regarding the PhD thesis, I was not aware of the low standards for PhD thesis in India. In the US peer reviewed journal articles are preferred but PhD thesis are acceptable as well. Kundu has also authored a book which is based on his thesis, but it is published by Harman publishing which would not be reliable. The use of Joshua Project predated my involvement with the article, I just edited the numbers in the article to be consistent with the source. To be clear, I have no issues at all with your deletions.

Regarding your main question regarding the name, the sources still left in the article all refer to Sutradhars. I have looked for reasonably reliable sources on Suthars, and could find none. Which is why I redirected the article on September 23rd. I did have second thoughts on the most common name, based on page views and google hits, so I undid my redirect on the 29th and left the Suthar article as a stub. I then transcluding the main body of Sutradhar to Suthar on October 1st. I will be the first to admit that that transcluding one article onto another was, to say the least, a very unusual step. But I am glad you found it since we can discuss how best to proceed. I do feel one of these articles should redirect to the other. Do you have any sources that would indicate Suthar is the more common name? Or would you prefer that these two articles remain separate, with a link to each other, as they were before?-- Work permit (talk) 02:36, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Sourcing caste articles can be a bit of a minefield. I did start an essay at User:Sitush/CasteSources and I think some other people contributed to it but the thing remains nowhere near complete, if ever it could be called complete.

Despite appearances of the last couple of days, I am too unwell to contribute much to Wikipedia at the moment. I will try to find sources for Suthar/Sutradhar but the one thing that is certain is that one article should be redirecting to the other if the names are synonymous: we do not maintain two copies of the same information. For that reason, I have (at least temporarily, pending consensus) redirected Suthar to this article. - Sitush (talk) 07:06, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

A search of JSTOR etc might be worthwhile. And Google Scholar. - Sitush (talk) 07:23, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Thank you very much. I am rapidly appreciating just how much a minefield this subject is. I did look through Jstor and Google Scholar, but will do so again with a fresh eye after reading your essay. I’m sorry to hear you’re not doing well. I will be pretty busy myself over the next week. -- Work permit (talk) 11:25, 2 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]