Talk:Stop Cop City

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Did you know nomination[edit]

The following is an archived discussion of the DYK nomination of the article below. Please do not modify this page. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as this nomination's talk page, the article's talk page or Wikipedia talk:Did you know), unless there is consensus to re-open the discussion at this page. No further edits should be made to this page.

The result was: promoted by Aoidh (talk) 00:46, 8 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

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A Stop Cop City tree sit in the OId Atlanta Prison Farm
A Stop Cop City tree sit in the OId Atlanta Prison Farm

Created by Crowina (talk). Self-nominated at 18:52, 12 December 2022 (UTC).[reply]

::Comments: Review until Prison Farm section

General: Article is new enough and long enough
Policy: Article is sourced, neutral, and free of copyright problems
Hook: Hook has been verified by provided inline citation
Image: Image is freely licensed, used in the article, and clear at 100px.
QPQ: None required.

Overall:

  • Article is new, long enough, and plagiarism-free. The hook is cited and interesting. No issues with the use image. el.ziade (talkallam) 21:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Please address the following:

  • Can you please quote verbatim where in the source is mentioned that " the project will increase police brutality in the city"? I have reviewed the cited source and the above sounds more like a conjecture.
  • Consider replacing "The Atlanta Police Foundation (APF) and others who ..." with "proponents". The cited source does not specifically mention the APF, rather "The other thirty per cent" el.ziade (talkallam) 11:12, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Two environmental organizations, the South River Forest Coalition and the South River Watershed Alliance, have filed a lawsuit against the film studio development." I can't find this passage in the cited source. The New York Times article does however corroborate this passage.
  • The article definitely leans towards a certain POV. Opposing POVs (residents pro Cop City) is represented. I believe the article represents the events faithfully, and the sources are generally accurately cited (exceptions above).
  • I invite the nominator to disclose any COI.
  • I also invite other reviewers who are informed about the events to take a look and verify if the article can be more balanced. el.ziade (talkallam) 21:19, 22 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In response to review of user @Elias Ziade:

  • I changed the wording of this sentence to more accurately reflect the language used by opponents of the facility in the citation source, the source
  • I replaced "The Atlanta Police Foundation (APF) and others who ..." with "proponents," as suggested.
  • I shifted citation from cited source to the New Yorker article, as suggested.
  • I think the article weights POVs similar to how they are weighted in most of the the sources. I feel I have respected Wikipedia's due weight policy, giving attention to the opposing sides of the issue in proportion to their popularity in the city, as reflected by 70% of public comment opposing to the facility in city council, see the source
  • I have no conflict of interest to disclose.
  • I invite @Gobonobo:, who seems to also have familiarity with these events based on their Dec 16 edits of the article, to offer their review for the purposes of the DYK nomination.

Crowina (talk) 22:13, 30 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]

* Thank you for taking the time to address and clarify the above. I have nothing further to add from my side.el.ziade (talkallam) 08:54, 31 December 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section. A summary of the conclusions reached follows.
The result of this discussion was no merge. MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE IS REAL EMO!(talk or whatever) 09:45, 4 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Proposed merge of Death of Manuel Esteban Paez Terán into Stop Cop City[edit]

This has insufficient material and notability for its own page. – Muboshgu (talk) 17:20, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Agreed --FlameRetardant (talk) 17:54, 26 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment ― Unless a lot of work is put in to expand the article about the killing of Terán, then yes, it should eventually be merged into the Stop Cop City article. It is of course possible that more will be written about the incident by news media, in which case we could wait a few months and see before merging. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 07:05, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support based on the fact that it has been 10 days and the page has not grown beyond the 2 or 3 lines. Jay 💬 11:04, 28 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    It looks like the article has been somewhat expanded recently, but it's still a "stub" article. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 00:29, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    No information that can't be folded into Stop Cop City or simply removed as not relevant. --FlameRetardant (talk) 01:56, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. Other incidents where persons are killed by US police tend to not have their own article and instead are discussed only in the context of the incident page itself. 2603:6081:6601:7D01:192D:CA49:8F95:4051 (talk) 17:01, 29 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. The Stop Cop City was largely an Atlanta-area issue. Public reaction to the death of Manuel Esteban Paez Terán, however, led to many notable protests in several other U.S. cities and it received international media attention. It will be investigated further with more developments. There is precedent for two articles. For example, the Killing of Deona Marie Knajdek took place during the 2021 Uptown Minneapolis unrest, but both have a separate article. Minnemeeples (talk) 19:12, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Whats wrong with including the relevant details in Stop Cop City? WP:OTHERSTUFF isn't a justification. --FlameRetardant (talk) 19:42, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Thanks for the follow up question. There isn't anything wrong with that per se, but Stop Cop City is a long-term, localized protest movement. Terán's death and the reaction to it were a different event, in my opinion. The death will be investigated and have an aftermath that will be easier to cover separately from the much longer duration Stop Cop City occupied protest. We may have to agree to disagree on this, but be assured that I will follow whatever consensus is reached about.
    Regarding WP:OTHERSTUFF, an unregistered user first made an "other stuff" argument above as a reason not to have a separate article when they stated, "Other incidents where persons are killed by US police tend to not have their own article and instead are discussed only in the context of the incident page itself". I was merely responding to that by providing an example where there were two articles, that's all.
    Thanks again for the discussion. Minnemeeples (talk) 20:13, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I would add that it might help to give some time for the articles to develop further. If there just ends up being a lot of duplicative content and it seems like a fork, then merge. I oppose merging them now, but I may support merging later depending on how the event is covered by reliable sources and if it sustains independent notability. Minnemeeples (talk) 20:20, 30 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Very much agree with this. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 07:02, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Y'all have it backwards. This belongs in Stop Cop City until it gets too large and requires a WP:CFORK using this "death of" article to write a biography with irrelevant details like how this individual chose to identify is exactly what WP:BLP1E exists to prevent. --FlameRetardant (talk) 16:52, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose as per User:Minnemeeples. --MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE IS REAL EMO!(talk or whatever) 00:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    What's wrong with including the relevant details in Stop Copy City? --FlameRetardant (talk) 00:58, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    See WP:BLUDGEON. User:Minnemeeples already explained and I cited them explicitly -- Stop Cop City is a long-term, localized protest movement. Terán's death and the reaction to it were a different event in their opinion, and I concur. Please stop engaging in disruptive editing. MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE IS REAL EMO!(talk or whatever) 03:19, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose per Minnemeeples and Mychemicalromanceisrealemo ― We can wait and see how this develops, and revisit the merge question in a few months. Cheers! 98.155.8.5 (talk) 07:02, 31 January 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Exactly, we can leave it in Stop Cop City and if it develops into something requiring it's own article it can be spun out then. I'm glad consensus is developing around common sense. --FlameRetardant (talk) 16:52, 1 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Please stop being so rude to the other editors here, and politely agree to disagree. Thanks. 98.155.8.5 (talk) 07:30, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I've not been rude to anyone in any way --FlameRetardant (talk) 10:43, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    Once again, see WP:BLUDGEON. Please stop engaging in disruptive editing -- we are here to build an encyclopedia, not engage in petty disputes. MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE IS REAL EMO!(talk or whatever) 09:53, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    I agree, and a great way to build an encyclopedia is to not have unnecessary POV content forks about WP:RECENT event of dubious notability. --FlameRetardant (talk) 10:44, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
    In Wikipedia terms, bludgeoning is where someone attempts to force their point of view by the sheer volume of comments, such as contradicting every viewpoint that is different from their own. Typically, this means making the same argument over and over, to different people. This can happen on a talk page, deletion discussion, or in any discussion at Wikipedia. It is undesirable and considered a form of disruptive editing. MY CHEMICAL ROMANCE IS REAL EMO!(talk or whatever) 12:15, 2 February 2023 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Atlanta city budget[edit]

It is not true that about one-third of the Atlanta city budget goes to the police. That fraction is only relevant when referenced specifically to the city's general fund, which is one of the three major funds that comprise the city's budget. While it's true that the New Yorker's article says "budget" rather than "fund," this is an error on their part. A summary of the city's 2023 budget (as proposed at the time) are available from the independent Atlanta Civic Circle organization here: https://atlantaciviccircle.org/2022/05/05/atlanta-budget-explainer/ . 67.188.1.213 (talk) 07:56, 7 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Where does the "DTF" come from?[edit]

The lead section of the article uses the initialism describing "Defend Atlanta Forest". Shouldn't it be "DAF"? Millows (talk) 20:00, 1 July 2023 (UTC)[reply]

DTF comes from Defend the Atlanta Forest or Defend the Forest. Cobblebricks (talk) 17:13, 27 September 2023 (UTC)[reply]
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