Talk:Sophomore/Archive 1

Archive 1

Defintions

Problem? Bouncehoper 21:46, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Great attempt at a discussion and justification of edit warring!

Sophomore is used (especially in the USA) for describing a student in the second year of study (generally referring to high school or university study).

Right:

• It uses "Sophomore" without referring to it as a term or word
• It uses "USA" instead of US or such preferred reference
• It does not state that it is an idiom, which it is

Sophomore is also used in the music industry (worldwide, but especially in the USA) to describe a group's second album (following a debut album).

And:

• Overplays the use outside of America
• You claim it is used by laypeople yet it states specifically here that it is used in the "music industry"
• Again it uses "USA"
• Refers to groups when it should say "artist" too
• Doesn't make any reference to its use outside of music, such as a directors second film

Has that broken down the problems sufficiently? All these are dealt with in the version that wasn't vandalised by an anon months ago. violet/riga (t) 21:58, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Bouncehoper, regarding this edit summary: you say "it's not predominantly american, and you both know that", and in the same edit you reintroduce the text "especially in the USA"! Melsaran 21:59, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

well, hello, attackers. wow. this feels so, you know, calm and well thought out, really.

I started the page because there appeared to be a problem, which I guess there was, and I was unsure of the problem.

I didn't actually write any of this stuff, you know, guys. Just thought you oughta know that before you try to slap me in the face with something you think I wrote.

• sure, it's a word. yay.
• us vs. usa. who gives a crap? and mel, i thought you preferred the queen's english to the "crude" American. So does it matter what you call the country you so dislike?
• it isn't actually an idiom; it just is to you because you don't understand it.
• it is used worldwide, as i've proven over and over again.
• when a word becomes popular outside of an industry, laypeople use it. that's the case here.
• fine, change it to groups, artists, directors, and such.

I mainly reverted it because of the obvious bias and weasel words in it, to make it sound as though the word is never used except in some places in America, and as though it fit the definition that you both seem to think it has. None of that is true, and you both know it. There's no reason to not have the facts straight on Wikipedia, and the point of an encyclopedia is to increase knowledge. Why is this such a problem for you two? Why do you feel the need to run rampant around Wiki changing things to your viewpoint, especially when a decision had been made, in fact TWICE. Same conclusion both times, you know.

I've requested help from an outside administrator, as it seems the two of you can't seem to be calm without jumping down my throat. Bouncehoper

You don't seem to have been able to refute any of my points and appear to be reverting out of spite. I see no weasel words in the current version, though of course you are welcome to try and enhance the article. That doesn't mean reverting back to include poor grammar or downplaying the fact that it is an uncommon word. I'm still not sure that an article is required at all as it still comes off as a DICDEF. violet/riga (t) 23:46, 12 August 2007 (UTC)

Delete

This is a dictionary definition, and I don't see much possibility for expanding it, so I'll delete it under WP:CSD A5 unless anyone objects. Λυδαcιτγ 01:17, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I'll first replace all links with a link to the Wiktionary entry. Λυδαcιτγ 01:19, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I think we should go back to the old redirect to student - I agree with your reasoning for deletion. violet/riga (t) 01:24, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

How about to 2 (number)? Λυδαcιτγ 05:57, 14 August 2007 (UTC)

I've reverted the redirect. Redirecting to the numeral "2" is pointless, sorry. You may delete it, but redirecting to "2" doesn't make much sense.--Ramdrake 19:12, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

I think rather the system of naming for US college students by year whould be treated comprehensively: freshman, sophomore, junior, senior. This needs an encyclopedic entry for non-US people not familiar with these terms. __meco 19:16, 16 August 2007 (UTC)

Every usage of sophomore refers to the second of something. There is no article on 2 (ordinal number), so redirecting to 2 makes the most sense - unless the school year usage dominates others. Perhaps it does, in which case a redirect to student is more appropriate.

Meco, I linked every instance of sophomore to wiktionary:sophomore, so anyone reading a Wikipedia article can get a quick definition. Λυδαcιτγ 05:00, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

I really don't think it is appropriate to link regular terms of a Wikipedia article to Wiktionary. I'm not sure there are any guidelines on this though (however, seeing as the overhead keeps expanding I suspect there is). __meco 07:11, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Actually a sophomore can refer to a three year old horse. I believe its use in school terminology does dominate. We could redirect it to second year or Educational stages. violet/riga (t) 07:39, 17 August 2007 (UTC)

Meco, Wikipedia:Wikimedia sister projects says that "Wikipedia encourages links to sister projects and interlanguage links when possible. However, links to sister projects should not be inserted excessively."

I gather that sophomore horses are typically in their second seasons of racing. Whether a three-year-old horse that races for the first time is a sophomore, I do not know. Anyway, I found a Tenth grade article which seems the best option so far. Λυδαcιτγ 00:28, 18 August 2007 (UTC)

This doesn't work; "sophomore" also refers to the second year of college in American universities, and this may well be its most common use in the US. Chubbles 16:12, 24 September 2007 (UTC)

The wiktionary definition is better written and agrees with [1] about the etymology, unlike what we have here. I support transwiki (or deletion, or whatever the word is for getting rid of this article and pointing to wiktionary if we need to point to something). Kingdon 21:21, 17 October 2007 (UTC)

I thought it appropriate to AfD this given the above discussion. violet/riga (t) 19:57, 23 October 2007 (UTC)

Etymology

The page states that it's derived from french, but I recall it being derived from greek as Sophos Moros, literally meaning "wise fool" —Preceding unsigned comment added by 72.80.173.163 (talk) 00:04, 28 January 2009 (UTC)

Your stance is supported by Merriam-Webster: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sophomore

So the actual etymology in this article seems to be false! Maikel (talk) 10:15, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

No - the article text reflects the reference provided here. If you want to add a sentence about the Merriam-Webster etymology "perhaps from Greek sophos wise + mōros foolish" with a link as reference, please go ahead.  pablo_hablo. 10:28, 15 September 2009 (UTC)

Where is the context and See Also?

I went here to find links to related terms for other years of university studies in USA, but there are none. It is quite hard to find that information if one does not have contacts in USA, so could someone please put back (I am pretty sure it was here in the past) the other terms (for 1st, 3rd and 4th yr)? (PS. Note that I on purpose write USA instead of the US, since USA is more used outside of that country in my experience.) --Lindorm (talk) 18:09, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

I believe it goes: Freshman, Sophomore, Junior, Senior, but I have never attended a college in the US (or USA) so you might want a second opinion. pablo_hablo. 19:53, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

You are correct --Michaelzeng7 (talk) 23:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Sophomore

So what does it mean, "Sophomore" ? 76.65.72.233 (talk) 10:31, 23 December 2009 (UTC)

Include Related Terms?

So what if we include related terms such as freshman, junior and senior. I don't see any of those mentioned once in the article. --Michaelzeng7 (talk) 23:30, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Never mind I see now --Michaelzeng7 (talk) 23:32, 26 January 2011 (UTC)

Sophomore used in Japan?

I lived in Japan for ten years, mostly teaching and translating. I never once heard anyone who was native Japanese and had not lived abroad refer to him/herself as a sophomore. American colleagues used it, and some Japanese who had lived in America used it, but no-one else. This article is a little misleading, especially considering the fact that English is not a language usually spoken in Japan. Japanese is. They have their own words for 'second year student'. Also, 'ph' is pronounced as an 'f', and Japanese does not even have that sound, so why do you say that Japanese use a word that is from a foreign language (specifically American), and contains a sound they do not have in their own language, let alone a writing system that supports it (in the sense that it would be widely readable by everyone)? KägeTorä - (影虎) (TALK) 10:40, 31 December 2013 (UTC)