Talk:Seoul City Sue

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Initial Research[edit]

q: What happened to her?

a: I don't yet know. The USAF bombed the KBS radio station near Seoul in August, 1950 while she was coming on the air, but American POWs saw her in February, 1951, and she continued on the air for a time.

I'm assembling material with which to add depth to the article. However, I'm stuck out in east Jesus, so anyone with better library access is welcome to dive into the references I've stacked up offsite.

Note To Workgroup: if anyone taking up the task of turning this article into a fully developed biography is in need of a photograph of Ms. Suhr, they should seek out a copy of the Shanghai American School yearbook, The Columbian, the most promising years being 1938-1941, and 1946-7. I've contacted the school by email, but received no reply. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmholm (talk • contribs) 11:09, 16 December 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I've found a photo via an old news wire. Non-free, but the best I've got to work with. I'm still hoping to score on a yearbook, but even then I can't guaranty that her smiling face lurks within. Cmholm (talk) 20:34, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Also, by dint of a change of spelling for maiden and surname, I've collected a lot more material, which I'll upload once I've got my footnotes straightened out.Cmholm (talk) 20:37, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I've added that material to the wiki entry. Still gathering suitably free photos and more detail of missionary activities.Cmholm (talk) 21:49, 28 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Audio Recordings[edit]

There is a note for "Seoul City Sue" broadcast recordings in the special collections of the University of Tulsa library, http://www.lib.utulsa.edu/speccoll/collections/kvoo/index.htm. It would be neat if someone at the university could dub a copy. Recordings of broadcasts weren't subject to copyright in the US until the late '60's. However, according the the Library Of Congress, this is a grey area (large PDF), so either I or someone else would need to contact KVOO's parent, Journal Broadcast Group for permission to sample around 30 seconds (or more!) for public dissemination. Cmholm (talk) 21:07, 16 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

First publication wasn't in the U.S., it was in Korea. Doubt North Korea had copyright laws. Someone who rebroadcasts a broadcast only gains a copyright on anything new that was added. Seoul City Sue should be free and clear for reuse, assuming anyone could get that recordings copies successfully, considering their poor state. DreamGuy (talk) 00:03, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
You're probably correct, I doubt the DPRK had a rule for radio broadcasts in 1950. In the US, radio broadcasts before 1978 weren't covered by copyright, and can't be after the fact, as is nicely summarized here: http://www.radiolovers.com/copyrights.html. So, armed with the official Copyright Office text, someone should be able to march on in and - within reason - go to town with the recordings, if the tapes have hung in there. Whether the UT library still has a reel to reel player is another question. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Cmholm (talk • contribs) 13:09, 17 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
UT's fees for retrieving special collections text, graphics, video, and audio aren't too bad... unless you plan to "broadcast" them, in which case audio goes for $30/second of source material. Ick. Cmholm (talk) 02:35, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
A lot of archives try to make money off of broadcast/publication of their material, which is not how the law works. If you had the material in the first place it should be free to make copies after. The only question then is if you have to sign a contract saying you won't rebroadcast it and then if you want to break it... not sure someone can contractually obligate you to follow copyrights on something they don't actually own copyrights to. One of these years there'll have to be some test cases go through the legal system, because public domain doesn't mean anything if places tie the content up in contracts. DreamGuy (talk) 16:27, 18 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]
After some further research, I see that there's a distinction between "copyright" of the IP, and "ownership" of a particular physical copy... much like a book on my shelf. Having a copy, and having expenses to meet in maintaining their special collections, UT gets to set the terms by which they part with their copy. In any case, they seem to be interested in working with me.Cmholm (talk) 21:10, 26 April 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Family Ties[edit]

any idea what her sister's name was? She is my third great aunt but I can't find out the name of her sister who took her to Oklahoma. I find it interesting that her great nephew probably heard her propaganda when he served in Korea. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 32.176.88.20 (talk) 16:42, 18 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The sister was Mrs. Lonzo F. (Ruth) Battles, of Hartshorne, OK, later of Carnegie, OK. Cmholm (talk) 08:44, 19 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]
While on the subject, if Ms. Suh's extended family has a late '30s or '40s photo of her and/or her work environment in China and Korea that they'd be willing to license digital copies of to the Wikipedia, or can provide any additional information about her adult life, that would be super.Cmholm (talk) 10:26, 20 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Directions For Further Research[edit]

To fill in gaps in the biography, goals and possible encyclopedic sources for information:

  • 1900-1914, Arkansas: Cushman History Project, and the Cushman School District, for a record/photo of Anna at Germany Hill School.
  • 1914-1918, Oklahoma: Eufaula Public Schools, in search of a Jackson-Lee High School yearbook with her class photo.
  • 1918-1927, Oklahoma & Arizona: Indian Nations Council, Neosho District, BSA; County Tax Assessor's Office & Board of Supervisors, Maricopa County, AZ for evidence of employment.
  • 1927-1928, Oklahoma: Southeastern State Teachers College yearbook for class photo. [completed]
  • 1928-1930, Tennessee: Scarritt College yearbook for class photo.
  • 1930-1938, Korea: Need information regarding locations and activities, particularly from 1930 to 1936. Records and photos may be available from the General Commission on Archives and History, UMC, and from the Presbyterian Historical Society.
  • 1938-1946, China: The Shanghai American School Alumni Association, for a copy of the 1938, 39, 40, 41, or 46 SAS "The Columbian" yearbooks for a staff photo, also perhaps of her husband.
  • 1946-1950, Korea: Evidence that the Mitsui & Co Building or the Bando Hotel was site of US Embassy dependents school, perhaps record of employment, from the US Embassy, Seoul. Evidence whether or not a photo of HLKA studios and transmitter is currently subject to copyright. Originally a International News Photos (INP) Soundphoto. Per the Library of Congress[1], INP photographs published with proper copyright notices between 1923-1963 may be protected if properly renewed. The INP photo archive became part of the UPI collection, later brought by CORBIS. A search of both the LOC Prints & Photographs Online Catalog[2] and CORBIS Images[3] have so far failed to turn up the image, thus the current copyright status is unknown.
  • 1950-1969, Korea: A street-level photograph of the Korean Central News Agency offices, Pyongyang, DPRK. A facsimile of KCNA propaganda leaflet, "I Am A Lucky Boy", showing Anna with Larry Allen Abshier. Encourage/pay the library at U of Tulsa library to take a crack at copying the 50 y.o. audio tape(s) of radio broadcasts.
  1. ^ "LOC, Prints & Photographs Division, International News Photos Rights and Restrictions Information"
  2. ^ "LIbrary of Congress Prints & Photographs Online Catalog"
  3. ^ "CORBIS Images search"

Jenkins Claim[edit]

The claims of Charles Robert Jenkins sounds very vague. Told by whom and exactly when and what was the context? Given the age of Anna Wallis Suh it is probable that she died of natural cases. Had she been "executed for espionage" this would have been publicised at the time not whispered to Jenkins somewhere. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.49.11 (talk) 20:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

To the best of my knowledge, the DPRK media hasn't reported on executions since the end of Stalinist-style show trials in the mid-50s. Foreign reports are based on rumor, which is all that Mr. Jenkins had to go on. As such, the cause of death for any citizen/resident of the DPRK to the present day cannot be verified. Please refer to Andrei Lankov's article on the broader subject in the Asia Times Online. Cmholm (talk) 09:32, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Is there any verifable evidence that Seoul City Sue and Anna Wallis Suh are the same person? Could the announcer not have been a Korean with an American accent as some American? Koreans did go to the DPRK and there was support for the DPRK amongst the US Korean community in the 1940s as there was the paper "Korean Independence". — Preceding unsigned comment added by 109.158.49.11 (talk) 20:56, 20 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

The identification of Seoul City Sue is addressed in the entry. Please refer to the references. If you think the entry should be moved from 'Seoul City Sue' to 'Anna Wallis Suh', you're free to register and do so per Help:Moving_a_page. Cmholm (talk) 09:32, 5 September 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Loss of citizenship?[edit]

There she met and married fellow staff member Suh Kyoon Chul, thus losing her US citizenship.

I can't find any evidence that marriage to a foreign national would automatically cause the loss of U.S. citizenship. Did she renounce her citizenship? Was Korean law responsible, or was it an old U.S. law that I can't locate? 184.77.159.253 (talk) 02:10, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

That sentence is *probably* true, but not *specifically* documented. See Seoul_City_Sue#Nationality for detailed discussion, such as reference 52, [1] "Women and Naturalization, ca. 1802-1940", starting from paragraph 8. Prior to the Cable Act of 1922, American women took their husband's nationality upon marriage. Afterwards, the case seems ambiguous for those marrying Asians, who weren't permitted to immigrate or nationalize at the time. Note the supposition on the part of American authorities that Ms. Suh couldn't be prosecuted for her activities. I suspect "by the US" was unspoken. Whether the ROK could is unknown. Perhaps the sentence should read "thus probably losing her US citizenship", but not completely deleted. Cmholm (talk) 08:47, 20 August 2011 (UTC)[reply]

First-person memoirs?[edit]

Is there a source for the paragraph of the Sino-Japanese War section which seems to be a first-person memoir of some sort? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.134.69.238 (talk) 15:47, 20 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

Unfortunately, no. The user was unregistered, and I haven't yet been able to track down the author from the info given.Cmholm (talk) 12:41, 23 April 2016 (UTC)[reply]

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