Talk:Salem, Oregon/Archive 2

Archive 1

Archive 2

Archive 3

Condominium projects

I think that this subsection under economy should include all the current projects. The Meridian and the one across from the riverfront park (I couldn't find a name for it) are the two that I know about.--Psjoding 06:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)

The problem I see with this is that such projects come and go regularly, and there may be ones which we don't know of and/or don't know the names of. Also, I don't know if the specific project names are something people will make use of/be looking for?Syuyohyu 14:53, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

If were are not going to list current condo projects, I feel that subsection should be removed. (A mere two lines is not adding to the article)--Psjoding 06:25, 26 March 2007 (UTC)

I don't agree. The relatively recent burst of new condominium projects is a notable item in the downtown economy, whether it takes many words or few words to describe it. Syuyohyu 06:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

I added some pictures, is that enough or do people still want more? Aboutmovies 05:10, 21 November 2006 (UTC)

Maybe a wide shot of downtown or maybe other angles besides being taken from the capitol?—Preceding unsigned comment added by 71.236.131.101 (talk • contribs) 02:14, November 30, 2006

And I will provide. ~Joe Repasky —Preceding unsigned comment added by JnBCW (talk • contribs) 17:12, 27 October 2008 (UTC)

Crooked picture

Does it bother anyone else that the picture of the Capitol building is quite noticably crooked? Does anyone in Salem want to take one that doesn't suck?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 208.151.246.194 (talk • contribs) 22:16, January 25, 2007

How do you know our capitol isn't crooked? ;) Honestly though, your post is so uncivil I think we should leave it up there forever. Another option would be to contact the user who uploaded their photo and see if s/he could photoshop it... Katr67 23:10, 25 January 2007 (UTC)

I looked into photoshopping it myself, but the uploaded version is at minimal resolution (284 x 132), so it's likely to look bad after rotation. If anyone has a high resolution photo, that would be preferable. —EncMstr 00:06, 26 January 2007 (UTC)

I can take a picture, but what do we want? Wide shot of the capitol, the rotunda, the pioneer, etc.? Night, day? Aboutmovies 23:16, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

How about several of each? That's what I do if I were doing it. Then upload the best shot of each composition and link the images together with the other_versions field of the {{Information}} template. (It's implied to set the camera to maximum resolution and minimal compression, right?) —EncMstr 23:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)

May I offer the following photo for consideration as the photo (or another photo) of the State Capitol building for this article?

Oregon State Capitol, Salem, Oregon

--ZehnKatzen (talk) 04:13, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Nice picture. We addressed the crooked part last year. I replaced one current cap picture with yours, that way we have the front of the building showing there too. Aboutmovies (talk) 06:20, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Ah,indeed. Date duly noted. But much obliged for looking kindly upon my picture, and thanks for the inclusion and the welcome. Samuel John Klein (talk) 07:04, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

List of private schools

I think this needs trimming because Wikipedia is not a directory. Any ideas how we can handle this? Katr67 18:04, 11 July 2007 (UTC)

I'm going to cut this section to include only schools notable enough to have articles (so far just Blanchet) soon unless someone objects. Katr67 21:21, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

As I remember, I wrote much of the current education section in the first place (though someone else reorganized it to be much more readable later), and I don't particularly object to it being reduced. I do think some mention that there are other private schools than Blanchet would be good, perhaps using as references some of the current references which themselves list and describe many of the private schools in question. Syuyohyu 06:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Recent changes

Ok, why remove the details of the Chemeketa Parkade? and the way to say the word? Coyotez 20:21, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

I reintroduced some of that info--see my reply on your talk page. Katr67 21:26, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Salem watershed

Here's a great map of the creeks that pass through Salem, Oregon: http://www.salemquarterly.com/tourmap.php?site_id=18 if we want to write something in the article about which one runs where, it should be accurate and cite this map. For example, it's Pringle Creek and Shelton Ditch that run past the hospital, not Mill Creek, which passes well to the north. Katr67 21:26, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

External links

This article is slowly creeping into tourism guide territory again (mostly the "Events" section). Personally, I hate embedded titled links and prefer red links for things that might merit their own articles, with an external link ref that gets removed as soon as the article is created. Embedded links seem to encourage a linkfarm mentality (and are copied as the correct format in good faith by people adding to the article) and ensure that articles will never be created for their subjects. But others think embedded links are fine. Let me know if you will be outraged if I start cleaning up some of these links and the "Salem offers this and that" tourism-type stuff. Or let me know if you would like to help. :) Thanks! Katr67 21:33, 7 September 2007 (UTC)

Again, I think I may have put in many of the embedded links to which you are objecting - specifically, in response to one of those ubiquitous notices put in the article by the Powers That Be saying that there needed to be more references... Does it not seem, sometimes, that one is "dratted if one does and dratted if one doesn't?" While it is true that linking to an external source may mean that no one creates an internal article, the fact that there is not an internal article does not mean that something doesn't exist and shouldn't be mentioned - or that when it is mentioned it needn't be referenced in some way. On the other facet of the issue, I think that listing major (or even minor, but regularly occurring) events - as well as school information, transportation, and so on - is important, for locals as well as visitors/tourists and those just interested. They are certainly one of the things I look for and find very useful (when they exist) on Wikipedia, whether I'm visiting, thinking of moving to, just curious about, or living in a city. What am I proposing, then? That I wouldn't oppose the references being changed in some way, but that I do believe these are important facts about Salem history, culture and economics. Syuyohyu 06:44, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

All I'm saying is that I'd like to change, for example, Salem Saturday Market to Salem Saturday Market (or Salem Saturday Market if it doesn't merit an article). On some articles I've made those sorts of changes and other people have changed them back, though the folks at WikiProject Spam agree that my approach is the way to go. When Salem Saturday Market becomes a blue link, then the ref can be removed because people can go click on the article if they want to find out more. Or if it says something that needs to be backed up, like: "Experts consider the Salem market to have far fewer hippies than the one in Eugene" then it should still have a citation. I'm hope I'm being clear. Katr67 18:44, 3 October 2007 (UTC)

Archiving

Just a reminder, please use the archive linked above to archive old discussions rather than just deleting them. Thanks. Katr67 16:05, 14 September 2007 (UTC)

Section changes

I went ahead and rearranged several sections to (what I believe) better reflects an encyclopedic article style for wikipedia and to make the whole article less clunky, mainly changing Arts and culture to People and culture and rearranging the Education section.

Articles should not just be lists of related information included without context just because it exists. Style guidelines suggest that if something is included it is because it is notable and helps establish the notability of the subject.

When it came to the list of schools I did not delete the information there, it is remarked out (with a note) and can be seen when you edit the section, I think notable schools ( those that have their own articles and good reference to the fact that makes them notable) can be used to expand the section (it's just roughed out at the moment). It doesn't mean that a school doesn't deserve to be there, it just helps make the article stronger. Awotter 02:16, 2 December 2007 (UTC)

FYI, I've always tried to make the arrangement of the sections for the Oregon city articles consistent with Wikipedia:WikiProject Cities/Guideline. Katr67 17:29, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Thanks, I hadn't seen that, I was looking mainly at other Oregon articles and mostly changed the way the sections were done, paragraphs vs plain lists, I don't think I altered the overall layout that much from the guidelines. I will change those back that are subsections now so they are consistent.Awotter 19:20, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

I wouldn't take the Oregon city articles as an example, most of the longer ones are pretty much a mess as far as sections go. I'm compiling a list of the FA city articles to refer to here, with the FA version linked because who knows what happens after they reach FA. Note that not all FA reviewers are the same, but it might be a more representative sample of what to go for. Paragraphs are good. Lists are a good start and I try to keep those cleaned up, since I think they're the least of our worries, but I'm all for prosification efforts. Katr67 19:51, 3 December 2007 (UTC)

Additional sources

Today's Statesman Journal carries coverage of Mayor Taylor's State of the City address. The Oregonian also recently reported on her position on the siting of a new mental hospital in Salem. -Pete (talk) 22:15, 21 February 2008 (UTC)

Boat ELs

Per WP:EL these should be kept to a minimum, and only one per site. That is only one salemhistory.net link in the ELs. Is there a particular one that is really good (maybe shows Salem in the background)? Otherwise I think the rest should be moved here and then someone can add a section to the transportation or history section about the steamboat trade. Aboutmovies (talk) 03:07, 12 March 2008 (UTC)

Suburbs?

Does Salem have suburbs? Exurbs? Someone added Keizer, Four Corners, Turner, Independence and Monmouth as examples of suburbs. Except for Four Corners, each of those are cities on their own and Independence and Monmouth are too far away, while I don't think Keizer counts because Salem-Keizer is considered a metro area together (though in my opinion Keizer has "No there there" so maybe it is a 'burb). According the map I have, which might be out of date, Four Corners (the area past Lancaster on State) is unincorporated, so maybe it's a suburb? Are the others exurbs? I don't think so, because though people live there and commute to Salem, the places each have an identity of their own and are not "urban communities that are primarily residential", 'cos they aren't particularly urban (heck, Salem isn't particularly urban). Other candidates for suburbs might be Sunnyside and Sunnyslope. I'm not one to judge though, as I tend to avoid suburbs. Most important, can we cite sources for any of this? Katr67 (talk) 06:45, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I noticed Monmouth and Independence being added and thought those are quite a stretch. Keizer very well fits my idea of a suburb, just as Beaverton is a suburb of Portland. Turner has physical rural boundary, so it doesn't naturally seem a suburb, but the commuting situation would be key to determining the answer; does more than 40% of Turner commute to Salem each day? —EncMstr 07:39, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

If you google "suburb of Salem" +Oregon, Keizer comes up a lot. So yeah, I guess Keizer counts, I was a bit hung up on it being an incorporated city in its own right. I haven't actually checked the article to see if Keizer is mentioned in there at all. It should be. And I believe the Keizer article lacks any mention of its raison d'etre, which is that they didn't want to pay Salem taxes... Anyway, I've heard Monmouth and Independence referred to as "bedroom communities", and certainly have met plenty of people who live there who commute to Salem for various reasons. Even Dallas was mentioned as a suburb in a highway article (I changed that--exurb maybe, suburb, no). Statistics would indeed be good. Back to work... Katr67 (talk) 17:52, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

I'd most definitely consider Keizer a suburb. It's very much like every suburb of Portland. It has no identity, no real downtown, it doesn't even have its own hospital and anyone driving north out of Salem who doesn't live here wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Calling Independence and Monmouth may be a stretch, but they're not very far. Much closer to Salem whereas the suburbs of Tualatin and Wilsonville are almost 20 miles away from Portland.

The trouble with the idea of "Suburbs of Salem" is that the urban fringe around Salem is so small. The UGB went up before Salem entered its true sprawl stage so areas such as Swegle and Four Corners, that resemble areas in eastern Portland, never grew out very far. The distance between the 4000 block (Lancaster Drive) and the 5000 block (Cordon Road) is only about a mile.

I'd argue for Silverton being a suburb if only because it's always been a bedroom town, and a lot of people in Silverton go to Salem for work (I grew up there, and both my Mother and Father went to work in Salem ... never in Silverton). But that might be stretching it too, since by that defninition, Stayton would be suburb, and that seems a little too far out.–ZehnKatzen (talk) 03:32, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Sourced option

Would go at the end of the lead where it talked about the MSA: Salem is the principal city of the MSA with the following cities considered as suburbs: Keizer, Turner, and Dallas. West Salem and Sunnyslope, both within the city limits, are also sometimes considered suburbs.

ref

Those are what come up when searching for Salem and then the word suburb within 5 words in the archives of the Statesman Journal and The Oregonian. Aboutmovies (talk) 22:22, 8 April 2008 (UTC)

Maps

Why in the world has no one found a good map to put in here? Every good article about a city/MSA has a detailed map of the area. If anyone knows where in Wikipedia to find a good map of downtown Salem, please add it to this article and it will be greatly improved. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 63.230.167.170 (talk) 22:17, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

Please go ahead and do so. We're all just volunteers. To upload any media, such as a map, you'll have to create an account. —EncMstr (talk) 22:44, 9 May 2008 (UTC)

I'd be willing to do this. I can create an original overview map and am willing to try and find a suitable central city map. –ZehnKatzen (talk) 03:39, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Salem Oregon Address System

Salem Oregon Major Street Network

I've created a couple of maps that I'm using to produce others, and one specifically meant to enable others to create maps.

The first one, seen on top, is a schematic illustration of the salem street suffix and address system. This is meant to be used to illustrate geographical points.

The second one, seen below that last one, is an SVG from Illustrator CS3 with editing capabilities preserved. This is meant for mine ... and for everyone else's ... reference in putting together our own highly excellent Salem maps.

I'm still planning to do a downtown Salem map if there's need for that (actually, whether or not there's need for it ... I enjoy drawing the maps, yes I do).

Samuel John Klein (talk) 04:03, 17 July 2008 (UTC)

How About A Few Words About Salem's Address Grid?

I think that would be a very informative addition to the Geography information, especially since I think it's useful to know what the divisions bewteen directional sections are, and the directionals are suffixes rather than prefixes. The divisions themselves are also interesting from a geographic point of view, because of a lack of a signed SW area, and the utterly arbitrary nature of the N-NE boundary and the S-SE boundary.

I've always loved the way SE ends at the 300 block along Commercial St SE between Mission and Liberty Road S, and the way the North boundary leaves a very small sliver of the N sector just within the northern boundary of Salem itself.

ZehnKatzen (talk) 03:40, 8 July 2008 (UTC)

Salem To Lose Air Service in October

Hey everyone, just caught this on a local blog ... Salem's going to lose the scheduled air service it seemed to get just yesterday ...

From the blog posting at SalemPappy blog :

I just read that Delta Airlines is stopping their Salem Oregon flights effective in October 2008. Can't say that I blame them much since the price of fuel has doubled within the last year.

I don't know where he got the information tho.

This is verified with a check of the page at the airline service listing page at FlySalem.com

Sad really. Just over a year and a half, I think.

Samuel John Klein (talk) 03:32, 13 July 2008 (UTC)

I went ahead and edited this new information into the Transportation section of the article. Samuel John Klein (talk) 18:36, 15 July 2008 (UTC)

Is there a reason why the above update to the Transportation section wasn't allowed to stand? Samuel John Klein (talk) 00:35, 16 July 2008 (UTC)

My apologies here; somehow I was mistaken. The verbiage still seems to be there. I was posting from from another computer in a different location -- maybe that had something to do with it. Samuel John Klein (talk) 00:57, 16 July 2008 (UTC)