Talk:SS Great Western

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Military history: Maritime / British / European

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Naming[edit]

The ship was not named the SS Great Western. Being a paddle steamer, the correct prefix should be PS. SS is reserved for screw driven ships. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Chriswhitmore (talk • contribs)

You have a reference for that? Because there is at least one reference for Great Western being listed as a SS. If you cannot provide one, I'm afraid we're going to have to back that change out per WP:RS. Syrthiss 11:57, 21 July 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Visiting the SS Great Britain today in Bristol docks - I noticed all references to the Great Western (& Great Eastern) in the museum were prefixed by PS - this was in contrast to the SS designation on the Great Britain. I believe PS is the correct designation for this ship, although will leave unchanged for now on entry. Anyone with specialist knowledge on this? Gg bris

FUNNY DISCUSSION! ANYONE CAN SEE JUST BY LOOKING AT HER ILLUSTRATION THAT SHE WAS P.S!Downypilt (talk) 12:53, 14 October 2010 (UTC) DESPITE THAT, I COULDN'T ALTER THE HEADLINE TO P.S![reply]

The painting of P.S. "Great Western" leaving on her maiden voyage was commissioned from the eminent Academic painter John Callcott Horsley, so we can be sure that he represented her accurately! —Preceding unsigned comment added by Downypilt (talk • contribs) 07:44, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Denis Griffiths' book "Brunel's Great Western" is THE authoritative publication on the Great Western to date and he refers to the ship as PS Great Western. Denis Griffiths: "Brunel's Great Western", Patrick Stephens, Wellingborough, 1985. ISBN 0-85059-743-9 — Preceding unsigned comment added by JoannaM32 (talk • contribs) 08:56, 27 March 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Restructuring[edit]

I hope the restructuring I did today will be seen as an improvement. I've corrected (hopefully) some factual mistakes and made the whole thing chronological. Besides, I moved some general steamship-history into the new section "Early history of steamships".

Now, please help: I think what is now in the section "Early history of steamships" should be put in another article (Blue Riband, other article, new article?) and be deleted from here. Any ideas? User:Nillerdk (talk) 18:28, 14 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Tricky. Looking at it from one angle, it is all about the Sirius and belongs elsewhere, but looking from another, it is all about the Great Western and belongs here (there are some SS G.W. details that are absent from the rest of the article). If it were integrated in the 'Maiden Voyage' section, then it becomes more about the Sirius, etc, however, if moved to Blue Riband then it would be 'lost' as that page has no similar information at present. For now, I would leave it where is, although it needs a different title.

Sorry I can't be more constructive at present. EdJogg (talk) 02:03, 15 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Restructuring the Article[edit]

It has been suggested that this article be split. To accomplish this, there are now new articles on the Great Western Steamship Company and the British and American Steam Navigation Company. Therefore, the article on the ship can be rewritten accordingly.

(GRUBBXDN (talk) 16:08, 30 January 2009 (UTC))[reply]

Requested move[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

The result of the proposal was: Not moved. No consensus for a move. PS Great Western has been created as a redirect, as suggested by an editor below. Station1 (talk) 21:06, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

SS Great Western → PS Great Western — The Great Western was a paddle steamer so the artcle name should reflect that. I have reverted the recent edits by Downypilt as they broke the infobox. Let us discuss the move here. We need sources for the naming. Jezhotwells (talk) 22:46, 14 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment PS == Paddle Steamer ; SS == Screw Steamer ; but SS == Steam Ship as opposed to sailing vessel (SV), or am I mistaken? ; The article mentions use as a Royal Mail ship, shouldn't it be RMS Great Western ? And as a troop transport... so RFA Great Western ? 76.66.200.95 (talk) 04:59, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment the common name of the ship appears to be S.S. Great Western -- ghits: SS 580khits ; PS 100hits ; 76.66.200.95 (talk) 05:02, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]
Comment -- what was it known as when in service? Perhaps it should be renamed Great Western (paddle steamer). It would be wrong for Wikipedia to demand it be known as PS Great Western, especially if it was known as S(team) S(hip) Great Western during its working life. 'PS' probably only came into use when there was a need to distinguish between paddle and screw. Prior to that I would suggest that SS distinguished steam from sail (which was the norm). Besides, if it is commonly known as SS Great Britain normal WP practice would be to use that. -- EdJogg (talk) 08:54, 15 October 2010 (UTC) not watching page[reply]

Comment I have discovered Great Western Steam Ship Gale Storm Sea Fine Art Old Original Old Antique Victorian Print dated 1846. I hope this contributes to the discussion. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Downypilt (talk • contribs) 16:33, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Can you provide link to this? Jezhotwells (talk) 15:02, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Comment Hmmm, I can see the aruguments on both sides here. Technically, the ship was a Paddle Steamer, and therefore be titled PS Great Western per WP:MOSSHIP. However, as others have pointed out, title at SS Great Western is in accordance with WP:COMMONNAME. Maybe the best compromise is to create PS Great Western as a redirect. Mjroots (talk) 20:34, 15 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose. The rationale seems to be that people should call it PS Great Western, rather than what they do (and did) call it, which is SS Great Western. However Wikipedia policy is strongly to prefer the common name; This is not the place to promote or enforce some notion of what language should be. Andrewa (talk) 06:50, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The title "Great Western Steam Ship in the Gale" can be seen on the actual image that was published by the London Illustrated News in 1846. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Downypilt (talk • contribs) 16:33, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, there seems no evidence that the proposed aticle name has ever been widely used, and ample evidence that the current article name was and is. No change of vote. Andrewa (talk) 20:22, 16 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Why was my contribution said to be Unsigned? —Preceding unsigned comment added by Downypilt (talk • contribs) 08:30, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Because both it and this latest edit were unsigned. It's considered unhelpful and even impolite not to sign posts on talk pages, but a bot autosigns them and leaves this message as you have seen, to make it easier for others to see who wrote the post. You can most easliy sign your posts by typing ~~~~ (four tildes). Please do so in future. See Wikipedia:Signatures. Andrewa (talk) 11:20, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I have always used the Downypilt (talk) 11:58, 17 October 2010 (UTC) sign, so I do not know what is happening to just my messages.[reply]

You are putting it in the edit summary. It should be just after your comment. Jezhotwells (talk) 12:42, 17 October 2010 (UTC) Thanks!Downypilt (talk) 17:38, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose page move. I nominated this page move as Downypilt was trying unsuccessfully to make the move. No strong evidence of the Great Western being generally prefixed PS has been produced. It appears that naming conventions for civilian vessels are inconsistent. SS generally refers to steam ship, rather than screw propelled ship. Royal Mail boats were RMS Google searches, for instance, turn up both PS Wavereley and SS Wavereley. At the time of building all steam ships were paddlers. The Ocean Liner Museum refers to the SS Great Western,[1] as does the Design Museum[2] and IKBrunel.org.[3] Jezhotwells (talk) 13:19, 17 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Oppose move. Oceangoing steamships are prefixed "SS", whether paddle steamers or not. "PS" is sometimes used as an alternative, but it's most commonly used for steamboats rather than steamships. "PS" seems to be a late invention retroactively applied to old steamers in any case - I personally have never encountered its use in a historical source. Gatoclass (talk) 05:41, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Just by way of example, try searching google books for "ss savannah" 1819 vs "PS Savannah" 1819 for the pioneering transatlantic (paddle) steamer of 1819. I get nearly 800 hits for the first and less than 20 for the second. Gatoclass (talk) 06:24, 22 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the proposal. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Typo?[edit]

After the collapse of British and American what? (there appears to be a word or phrase missing in the middle of the penultimate paragraph). TheAMmollusc (talk) 14:15, 22 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It is a reference to the British and American Steam Navigation Company, which is mentioned early on in the article and is subsequently refered to as just British and American. Dposte46 (talk) 14:32, 2 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

It does look odd. I was going to provide an extra link, or something, but the text does actually make sense when you read the whole article. -- EdJogg (talk) 14:07, 3 February 2011 (UTC)[reply]