Talk:Power Boys

In Search Of More Information

I'd love to be able to add to the Power Boys article, but after years of searching I haven't been able to find much about the books, and nothing at all about the author. Many series have multiple fan sites, but apparently Jack & Chip Power never had such a loyal following.

Recently I came upon an online bookseller who, unfortunately, doesn't show book covers. There is a listing of Power Boys books for sale, and after one title is the notation - (Later Smaller Format) Does anyone know what that means? Were Power Boys books ever sold as paperbacks? --Karenthewriter (talk) 18:29, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

Hallo, Karen; I am the principal author of this Wikipedia Power Boys article.

Just a few comments on points you wrote.

I'm sure I have seen plenty of booksellers' sites which do show cover scans - so if you keep looking, I'm sure you should find them. Whether these could properly be used on Wikipedia, I don't know.

As for information about the books, there is the web page I wrote myself, on foxall.com.au . If you Google "Power Boys" together with "Mel Lyle", it will probably be the very first page to turn up. It contains all the information about the books I have been able to find. I didn't provide a link in the Wikipedia article to my web site, since I have a feeling there is a Wikipedia policy concerning the insertion of links to your own work (I think Wikipedia discourages editors from appearing to promote their own web sites). If you found the site and considered it worthy of linking to in the Wikipedia article, well that would be a different matter, and up to your judgement.

I think a Hardy Boys web site once had an article on it about the Power Boys, but I have a feeling that has disappeared. And someone called Keith Robinson, who runs a prominent Enid Blyton web site, wrote a review of the series, but I'm not sure if it was ever publicly posted. (I was shown a copy of it privately.)

Like you, I've never been able to find out anything about Mel Lyle - not even whether he existed as a human being, as against being merely a publishers' house name. However, there is a certain style to the books that, in my opinion, suggests authorship by a single person.

I don't know what the "Later Small Format" notation means. I don't believe the books appeared in paperback. I don't actually know that for a fact, but base that on the fact that I've never seen any mention anywhere that they did appear in paperback. M.J.E. (talk) 03:10, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

I have been to your website, and thought that the author of this article must have seen it as well, since it had similar information and viewpoints. Now I know why they were so similar. Thank you for the information on how to find the website, it didn't come up on the search engine I was using. I'm not a Wikipedia pro, so I'm not sure if I could figure out how to add a website link, but I may try when I have some time. The same goes for putting a scanned book cover photo in the article -- I don't know that I could figure out how to do it.

I have all six of the books, and was looking at bookseller sites in hopes that one of them might have some information about the author. I noticed one book was listed as being a smaller format, and at another site a listing (also with no scanned cover) stated that the Power Boys book for sale had a different cover than the same title listed on Amazon.com. Those comments piqued my interest as to whether there were book editions that were different in appearance than the hardback books with color covers. --Karenthewriter (talk) 16:53, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

When I said my web page comes up at the top of a search, I was using Google. If you were using another search engine, I suppose it could give different results, and not list my site. But since my site appears to be the only extensive source of information about the Power Boys on the Internet, I would question the competence or comprehensiveness of the search engine you were using - not because I feel put out that it would not list my site, but just because, as a point of fact, my site appears to be almost the only source of information about the Power Boys.

There is a bit of a technique you have to learn to add external links to a Wikipedia article - it's probably a little too involved to explain here (and I don't remember it offhand anyway), but I'm sure there are Wikipedia help pages that will explain it. Or look at the edit window for an article that includes a similar style of link and see how it's done there.

I don't know how to add links for book cover scans to an article. But even if you find out how to do this, what you have to consider is whether it is allowable to do this. Copyright considerations may be an obstacle here, and I don't know whether Wikipedia has rules of its own that go beyond the ordinary copyright rules. This is simply something that is beyond my knowledge, and I don't have the time to do the research to find out whether certain images are allowable or not. In any case, I have never got the impression that it is usual for Wikipedia articles about novels to include cover scans, although I dare say some probably do have them.

If you can find any information about other editions of the books, such as the smaller-format ones you mention, including cover scans, I would be interested to know about this. I have never come across any indication that other editions exist, although I certainly don't deny that they may possibly exist. M.J.E. (talk) 12:39, 7 May 2009 (UTC)

Still Searching For More Information

I have been attempting to find evidence of a Power Boys book in a different format.

One on-line bookseller lists many Power Boys books, including one in a smaller format. I contacted the seller and told him I wanted to buy the smaller format book. He informed me that he no longer had any Power Boys. (After receiving his email I went back to his site, and saw that numerous Power Boys were still listed for sale. How I wish all on-line sellers would update their sites.)

Another on-line seller showed no cover illustrations, but stated that one of her Power Boys had a different cover than the one shown on Amazon. I checked Amazon.com, and saw that all Power Boys cover illustrations were of the known hardcover editions. I emailed the bookseller with the "different" cover, described the hardcover illustration, and asked if her copy had a cover that was different. The cover I described was what she had.

Here are two sellers who at one time listed a Power Boys book as being different from other Power Boys. I suspect there was another format, but it must not have gone over very well, since few copies exist to be resold.

My small-town local library has a section of various children's series books. They have three formats of Whitman editions of Trixie Belden books -- the old hardcover books, paperback books, and hardcover library editions that are the same size as the paperbacks. Proof that Whitman did publish paperbacks. However none of the paperbacks have advertising in the back for other book series. Which series were published in these smaller formats?

I purchased a copy of All About Collecting Boys Series Books by John Axe. Impeccable research, but nary a word about Power Boys mysteries.

Next I went to websites for other Whitman book series. I found a couple of links to author interviews, found out a little about how Whitman Books did business, but I learned nothing about the Power Boys or author Mel Lyle. One website listed Whitman Juvenile Books: Reference & Value Guide as a reference. I tracked down a copy of the book and purchased it. Unfortunately the book wasn't helpful. There was no information about authors, and book series weren't complete. (I suspect the authors photographed covers of the books that either they or other near-by collectors owned. What they could find was what was listed in the book.)

Every once in awhile I look through on-line book sellers listings of Power Boys books in hopes that one will be in a different format. If I find one I'll buy it and add that information to this Wikipedia article. ----Karenthewriter (talk) 20:20, 20 July 2009 (UTC)

I have been researching another Whitman juvenile series and read School Shamuses, Inc., a book that discusses four of the Whitman girl detectives series. The Trixie Belden, Ginny Gordon, Robin Kane and Meg Duncan books were written by a group of authors who were published under a pseudonym, so it seemed likely that the Power Boys author was also a Whitman "house name".

I read through the biographies of numerous writers, and none of them were credited with any of the Power Boys books. Karenthewriter (talk) 18:43, 26 September 2012 (UTC)

Is this person the author?

The smaller format refers to the size of the hardcover book (length x width). My "Million Dollar Penny" title is a slightly larger size than my "Vanishing Lady" title. But as with the Brains Benton Series, I'm not sure all the books were printed in a series of each having the same uniform style and size.

Also, might this gentleman be the author? From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia:

Melvin Lyle "Mel" Boring (age 77)(born September 12, 1939, St. Clair Shores, Michigan, U.S.) is an American children's author specializing in non-fiction. A member of the Society of Children's Book Writers and Illustrators, Boring has produced works such as Incredible Constructions and the People Who Built Them; Caterpillars, Bugs, and Butterflies; and Guinea Pig Scientists: Bold Self-Experimenters in Science and Medicine (coauthored with Leslie Dendy). Boring also travels the world to speak to students about book writing and publishing while he wears a Cat-in-the-Hat costume. Rmharris (talk) 17:54, 21 September 2016 (UTC) — 

This is very interesting, and the real identity of "Mel Lyle" and any information about him is something I've been wondering about for many years. I just came across the above comment right now.

It does look quite likely Mel Boring is in fact the author, but definite information and references would be needed to establish this. It is very suggestive that Boring's name is Melvin Lyle Boring and his nickname "Mel", but of course not proof: the biggest - indeed, only - lead I've ever encountered about Mel Lyle's identify and biography. I posted a comment on the Talk page of Mel Boring's article, mentioning this possible connection and asking for anyone who knows anything about this to speak up.

Another small connection is that the books do mention (just once, and very briefly) that the Power Boys were originally from Chicago, Illinois (and possibly still lived there for the first five books, although this is left vague), and that is close to Michigan, where Boring was from. One might have a tendency to mention locations in a novel that are close to where one lived, even though the mention in this case is very fleeting - but it may be aother very small piece of the jigsaw.

I found an e-mail address for Mel Boring, and am considering whether it might be too intrusive to write to ask him if he wrote the Power Boys books. Considering that especially the early books in the series are a bit scattered and meandering, and have been reviewed very scathingly on another web site, I suppose it's possible Mel Boring may not want to admit having written them.

If anyone knows anything more, I'd be very glad to hear from them and to have anything that can be established added to the article.M.J.E. (talk) 19:28, 28 August 2018 (UTC)

Author information regarding William Manners

Someone added information about the first book being written by William Manners. Supposedly this claim came from the cover page of the original manuscript, but no reference source is given. Did the Wikipedia editor see that manuscript? Was the detail written in a magazine article? I am unsure if that un-sourced section should be deleted, for there's no way to verify if it's true. I tried to find some online data about Manners, but had no luck.

Please, if you decide to add to an article take the time to list your resources. Or at least put a comment in the Talk page so that someone else can research and add the reference. Karenthewriter (talk) 17:21, 15 February 2019 (UTC)

I am removing an uncredited section from the Power Boys article, but am including it her for future reference. If anyone knows of a published reference source this can be returned to the "authors" section.

The first book appears to have been written by William Manners (born William Rosenberg) who lived from 1907-1994.Manners was the editorial director of Sleuth Mystery Magazine and the Editor of Alfred Hitchcock's Mystery Magazine. This is based on the cover page of the original manuscript of the first book, which not only lists Manners as the author, but gives his address and his agent's information. Further, the manuscript says this is a "Jack and Chip Victor Book" with the word Victor crossed out in pen and the word "Power" written above it. {{citation needed}} Karenthewriter (talk) 18:31, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

Once again I am removing that at least one of the books was written by William Manners:

The first book was written by prolific author William Manners who used Mel Lyle as a pseudonym. It’s possible he wrote all of them. The original name of the brothers was Jack and Chip Victor.

A researcher sent me an email stating that the manuscript of the first Power Boys book was sold on eBay, and William Manners' name was on that manuscript. I believe that the person was telling me the truth. But Wikipedia requires a citation for such data and, as of this date, no one has published an article verifying that William Manners is the author. I added his name to the Author section, stating that he wrote one of the Whitman series. It may be considered speculation to add that, since there is no reference tying him the Power Boys, but I will see if that can be kept in the article, until a good citation can be obtained. Karenthewriter (talk) 05:04, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

Is the Power Boys series notable?

On February 2022 this article was tagged, questioning whether the book series is notable, and stating that the article needs more non-primary citations. I have just spent 3 hours expanding the article, and adding newspaper article references. For more than a decade I've been working on this article, and I want it to stay, but I'm hesitant to remove the warning tags. Someone is concerned about questionable notability, and I can't find an article that is exclusively about the Power Boys. There are numerous articles that mention many Whitman series, including the Power Boys, but will that be enough for the tagger? I found one university with an online listing of the series. Is that enough? I would appreciate the opinions of others regarding this article. What can I do to make sure this article can pass any notability challenges? Karenthewriter (talk) 09:36, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

I added the {{Notability}} template because there was nothing to indicate that the book (or the series) met WP:NBOOK. While there's no doubt that the book or books exist, simply existing is usually not sufficient to establish notability. Most of the sources cited appear to be either to the books themselves or to sources which only really show the books exist. Only three of the sixteen cited sources can be verified online and only one of those (The Times Recorder one) appears to resemble the type of secondary coverage that might help establish the book's Wikipedia notability. Some of the offline sources cited might also help establish notability, but there's no way to easily verify them. Since you're the editor who added the citations for those sources, I'm assuming you have access to the sources and can assess them. Perhaps you can describe them and explain how they help the book meet WP:BOOKCRIT, or maybe you can clarify which of the other criteria in BOOKCRIT are being satisfied. FWIW, tagging an article with "Notabiity" doesn't mean that it's going to be deleted; it just means that there's no clear establishment of notability which means there's a chance it could end being nominated for deletion. Finally, the fact that you've been working on the article for so long but haven't been able to find anything which clearly shows it meets NBOOK is not a good sign per WP:LONGTIME unless there's some reason to expect that the book is somehow going to start receiving coverage in reliable sources because of something recently related to it. There were also long streches of time where not many edits were made to the article, and these included large gaps between your edits as well. Such a thing can sometimes be interpreted as the article having pretty much gone about as far as it's ever going to go. This isn't necessaily a bad thing when notability is clearly established because notability isn't temporary, but it's not necessarily a good thing either when notability is a bit iffy. I'll ask some about this at WT:BOOKS to see if any of that WikiProject's members might be able to help assess the book's Wikipedia notability. -- Marchjuly (talk) 13:52, 2 February 2022 (UTC)

If it is deemed that this book series is not notable I cannot prove that it is. Whitman Publishing produced low cost books that weren't reviewed in major periodicals. The company did not show a book's edition, so I can't estimate how many copies were printed. Do whatever you feel is best. I must walk away from this discussion, because I am now realizing how emotionally invested I am, so I need to recuse myself from decision making. Karenthewriter (talk) 18:07, 2 February 2022 (UTC)