Talk:Nelson Mandela/GA2

GA Review

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Reviewer: QatarStarsLeague (talk · contribs) 03:13, 22 May 2013 (UTC) Phew. This is set to be one cumbersome review, but a worthwhile review nonetheless. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 03:13, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

Yep, it's a long 'un. Thanks for taking it on. User:Midnightblueowl actually wrote/revised much more of this than me, so though I'm the nominator, I'll be deferring to her on anything she gets to first. -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:26, 22 May 2013 (UTC)

I must echoe Khazar's thanks here QSL! It is indeed a long article, but your decision to undertake the review is much appreciated! Midnightblueowl (talk) 14:11, 23 May 2013 (UTC)

Lead

Excellent summary! This was sure to have been a very challenging biography to summarize.

Infobox

This passes.

Childhood

Please wikilink Christianity and Methodist (Methodism).

 Done -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:04, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

All else is good.

Clarkebury, Healdtown, and Fort Hare

Please wikilink Thembuland once.

 Done -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:09, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

"Spending much of his spare time long-distance running and boxing, in his second year Mandela became a prefect." It would be best to outline the different sports Nelson played after the earlier mention of sports, and alter this sentence to that is reads: "In his second year at Healdtown, Mandela became a prefect."

I would, but I'm concerned that he may have done different sports at the different schools. The reference just states that these are the sports that he did in this year, I think. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:09, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

That is fine then. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 20:37, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Please wikilink in some way anthropology and Roman Dutch law.

 Done -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:09, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

All else is good.

Arriving in Johannesburg

Please wikilink Liberal Judaism.

Before I do, let me check with MBO on this--does the phrase "a liberal Jew" mean liberal in the religious sense, or just in the political? -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:10, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

In this instance it means a religious/cultural/ethnic Jew who was politically liberal, not a follower of Liberal Judaism (though he might have been the latter as well, I'm not sure). Midnightblueowl (talk) 17:29, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Yes he certainly might have been either or both. Given his overall pertinency, and the pertinency of the information, no wikilink is needed.

All else is fine.

Law Studies and the ANC Youth League

Please wikilink Engcobo and/or Transkei.

 Done -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:12, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

All else is good.

Defiance Campaign and Transvaal ANC Presidency

This section is fine.

Congress of the People and the Treason Trial

This section and the next are fine.

Arrest and Rivonia trial

I find this to be a good stopping point. I will defer you time to address the issues outlined above, and so I will be stopping here. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 13:56, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Again, many thanks for taking on this long and complex review. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:12, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

And again, let me echoe Khazar's comment ! Midnightblueowl (talk) 17:31, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

Hi QSL, just wanted to check in--is there anything else that needs to be done on the above? -- Khazar2 (talk) 11:54, 4 June 2013 (UTC)

No, everything is fine. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 01:01, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

This section passes.

Robben Island

"Harassed by several white prison warders..." Harass in the context is fairly ambiguous, could you elaborate?
Please wikilink Islam, unless you did earlier and I missed it.

• Names of major religions generally aren't wikilinked per WP:OVERLINK, if that's ok. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:07, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Alright.

I've replaced with "verbally and physically harassed". Midnightblueowl (talk) 09:46, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

This is merely a suggestion, but a picture of Helen Suzman (if possible) would be nice in this section.

• Unfortunately I'm not sure there's space. It seems a shame to take out the Robben Island pictures to put her in when she's only mentioned in half a sentence. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:07, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

She was influential in her advocation for Mandela, but if there isn't room, that is fine.

I concur with Khazar's view here. Midnightblueowl (talk) 09:46, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

"Lesotho awarded him an honourary doctorate..." Lesotho, University of?

• Source doesn't specify; reworded sentence. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:19, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Very good.

The rest is fine, along with the next two sections.

• Addressed two points, will leave the top point for MBO. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:07, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Sounds fine.

Early negotiations

Please wikilink all the countries mentioned, along with Wembley Stadium.

• Wembley Stadium is already wikilinked in the article; major locations (i.e. countries) generally aren't linked per WP:OVERLINK. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:13, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Did he not meet the HOS/HOG of Australia and Japan? If so, please mention them.

• These are omitted because the source (a detailed biography of Mandela's life) also omits them; I'm not sure it's a major detail. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:16, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

It definitely isn't, but after listing other names, continuity is favored. However, if this information cannot be presented, that is fine.

The rest is fine.

The CODESA talks

"...shot dead by the Ciskei Defence Force..." Why don't you wikilink this organization?

•  Done -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:05, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

General election

This section is fine.

Presidency of South Africa

Very good here.

National reconciliation

" He encouraged black South Africans to get behind the previously hated national rugby team, the Springboks, as South Africa hosted the 1995 Rugby World Cup." Please reference that.

• It's referenced by the footnote that follows--#223--it's also not controversial or a quotation. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:11, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

All else fine.

Domestic programs

Fine here.

Foreign affairs

Please wikilink East Timor.

• Major geographic locations, such as countries, generally aren't wikilinked per WP:OVERLINK. I'd like to leave it unlinked if that's all right. -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:12, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

The rest is fine, along with the next section.

Continued activism

I find this to be an excellent retiring (I gesture towards the symbolism) point, so I will afford you some time to resolve the outlined issues. Sorry for the cumbersome pace, I have a nomination of my own. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 01:01, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks again for your comments and suggestions! I really appreciate your taking this one on. I've addressed most of your concerns above; one or two I have to leave to MBO, who has more books than I do. Cheers, -- Khazar2 (talk) 01:21, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

I appreciate your swift response. QatarStarsLeague (talk) 01:47, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

This was great thanks QSL! Midnightblueowl (talk) 09:46, 5 June 2013 (UTC)

Please wikilink the Nelson Mandela Foundation, unless you already have.

•  Done There's no article for this, but I have no problem with a red link if you think it's likely to get one. -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:45, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Unless you have already and I missed it, please wikilink Abdelbaset al-Megrahi

• It seems to already be wikilinked in its only occurrence. Am I looking at the wrong place? -- Khazar2 (talk) 12:45, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

"Retaining an interest in Libyan-UK relations, he visited Megrahi in Barlinnie prison, and spoke out against the conditions of his treatment, referring to them as "psychological persecution." Where else is he mentioned? QatarStarsLeague (talk) 15:26, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

• Oh, I see, sorry. I was just CTRL+Fing for his full name. Anyway, the link is at the earlier sentence "Mandela hoped to resolve the long-running dispute between Libya and the US and Britain over bringing to trial the two Libyans, Abdelbaset al-Megrahi and Lamin Khalifah Fhimah, who were indicted in November 1991 and accused of sabotaging Pan Am Flight 103. " -- Khazar2 (talk) 15:47, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

"Retiring from Retirement"

Mbeki's successor was not Zuma, it was Motlanthe. Albeit, his tenure was a brief one, but some mention must be made regarding Mandela and Mbeki's resignation along with Motlanthe.

• Tweaked this to make it clear that Zuma was a successor, rather than the immediate successor; I'll leave MBO to suss out the details of the transition if that's okay, MBO. (All my books are back at the library already...) -- Khazar2 (talk) 13:03, 7 June 2013 (UTC)
  • If my memory serves me correctly, the sources don't really deal with this issue in any particular depth. Midnightblueowl (talk) 21:33, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

As long as it has been reworded, it is fine. I will pass the article immediately! QatarStarsLeague (talk) 02:58, 8 June 2013 (UTC)

Image

Very nice here.

Political ideology

Fine here too.

Family

Fine here.

Orders, decorations, and monuments

Excellent here, along with the next three two sections. I am particularly fond of the "Tribute" collage.

Conclusion

I am glad that the reviewing process proceeded smoothly and without major impediment. This is a very important article, and so I commend you for bolstering and then nominating this article. Once everything has been addressed, this will pass. Congratulations! QatarStarsLeague (talk) 04:59, 7 June 2013 (UTC)

Thanks QSL! Much appreciated! Midnightblueowl (talk) 10:16, 8 June 2013 (UTC)