Talk:Murder of Rhys Jones

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Necessity?[edit]

Is this article really neccessary? Thousands of people are murdered every day and just because the tabloids decided to pick up on this one, it doesn't make it more important than the countless deaths that are ignored

Take it to WP:AFD if you think this page shouldn't be here.--h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 13:10, 29 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Title of page[edit]

I have moved this page to 'Murder of Rhys Jones' with an appropriate redirect from 'Rhys Jones' to here. I do not know if this is the correct style to use or whether this page should just be callled 'Rhys Jones'. When deciding the name of this page, I have looked at the page of 'Murder of James Bulger. Although this murder is not in the same league as that killing, I think it is quite similar. Does anytone else have any thoughts? - Kneale 23:19, 31 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah, that's probably appropriate. The child himself is not notable, but his killing was. Same with the Disappearance of Madeleine McCann - she's not notable, just her disappearance is.-h i s ^{s p a c e} _{r e s e a r c h} 12:04, 5 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

The murder is news-worthy, but not notable for an encyclopaedia. If his murder prompts a change to the laws of Britain, or in retrospect - has influence on English/British life then it's fair to include this. IMO it is far too early to know about any influence apart from on the self-propelling media. Perhaps, these murders/disappearances could be merged into a general page e.g. "Notorious murders and disappearances of children in post war Britain".Mr Kline 12:36, 6 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Is it appropriate to describe the killing as murder, given that it was almost certainly not a pre-meditated killing, and no charges have yet been brought? Would 'killing' or 'shooting' not be a more appropriate word?Quelcrime (talk) 19:32, 24 November 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Murder doesn't have to be premeditated 77.97.83.150 (talk) —Preceding undated comment was added at 17:05, 11 October 2008 (UTC).[reply]

The killer deliberately fired the gun in order to kill a youth, whom, during the murder trial, the prosecution have named as Wayne Brady. Rhys unwittingly cycled into the line of fire. The fact that an innocent child was killed, instead of the intended target, means that the killer murdered Rhys, and attempted to murder the person he was aiming at. Therefore the title of this article is correct. Werdnawerdna (talk) 22:38, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Time to condense the article[edit]

From Wikipedia:Recentism#Suggestions_for_dealing_with_recentism

After "recentist" articles have calmed down, the instigating news story has dropped from the Main Page and the front pages of newspapers, and the number of edits per day has dropped to a reasonable minimum, concerned Wikipedians ought to initiate comprehensive rewrites. Most articles can be condensed to keep only the most important information, the wider notable effects of an event, and links to major issues to which the article is related. Much of the timeline content and day-to-day updates with minor details can safely be excised.

There's a great deal of excessive detail in the article - mother's birth place for example.217.43.227.121 (talk) 19:58, 23 January 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Naming the accused killer[edit]

I don't think that this is allowed yet, plus I believe that it was an incorrectly spelt name. If you add it back, please at a ref to where he has been named by a legal source. Doyley Talk 12:21, 12 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Worse than that it may well be a contempt of court and a breach of the Children and Young Persons Act 1933. Even as it stands the name is recoverable so the history needs to be edited. The person posting the name would be advised not to vistit the UK for a while.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 11:06, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

If any one feels like it this is the email to report the breach to keith.townend@hmcourts-service.gsi.gov.uk.--Kitchen Knife (talk) 11:19, 27 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Of course the above no longer applies (eg [1]). Is the accused now allowed to be named simply because he's turned 18, or did the judge have to specifically allow it? 86.132.139.119 (talk) 13:30, 13 October 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Source for middle name?[edit]

The Guardian article which was used for the citation (at the moment, footnote 1) is now dead. I can't find a mention of "Milford" anywhere else except on a Bebo page, which does not qualify as a reliable source. Can anyone help there? 86.154.9.177 (talk) 20:20, 16 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

GRO index of births confirms, and I've added a reference. Mayalld (talk) 14:03, 11 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Arrests and investigation[edit]

Should the investigation and trial of Mercer's Mother, Janette, for trying to cover up for him be included on this page? See http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0100news/0100regionalnews//tm_headline=sean-mercer-s-mum-on-trial-for-protecting-son%26method=full%26objectid=22938933%26siteid=50061-name_page.html 91.109.51.46 (talk) 20:36, 16 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Gangs[edit]

This section should be rewritten. In particular, the gang-related background to the case and the fact it was established in court that the murderer was intending to hit another target when he killed Rhys (this essentially being the motive), should be mentioned. Unlikelyheroine (talk) 23:01, 20 August 2009 (UTC)[reply]