Talk:Monifieth/GA1

GA Review[edit]

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Reviewer: Pyrotec (talk) 12:05, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

I will review. Pyrotec (talk) 12:05, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks... I'm looking forward to seeing your suggestions... Catfish Jim & the soapdish 15:23, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

You were quick off the mark! Pyrotec (talk) 15:40, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Initial comments[edit]

This looks like a reasonable article, and so far, appears to be compliant with WP:WIAGA this time round; but that is not my final decision. At this point in time I will be concentrating mostly on "problems", if any. I will be going through the article in more detail section by section, but leaving the WP:lead until last, and noting down any comments or problems. So if I don't have much to say about a section/subsection that generally means that its OK. I will produce a summary at the end. To simplify the record, any comments, replies, objections, etc, can be added below my comments. Pyrotec (talk) 15:46, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

History -

Y Pyrotec (talk) 08:40, 8 December 2010 (UTC) - The citation for "Hill of the deer", ref 2, is a book in the form of a 480 page pdf file. A page number should be given. It may well be possible to use acrobat reader to find the phrase, but that is not the readers' job.[reply]
Y Pyrotec (talk) 08:40, 8 December 2010 (UTC) - Ref 17, 18 and 19 seem to have a broken web link. It looks ahds have moved page addresses round.[reply]
YPyrotec (talk) 08:53, 8 December 2010 (UTC) - I'm not certain that evidence has been produced to back up the claim "The area surrounding Monifieth has been occupied continuously since the Mesolithic period. ...". Evidence (via citations) has been produced that the area has a long period of use stretching back to then, but continuous use??? (I would accept long period of use of comparable statements, you aren't obliged to use my words).[reply]
YPyrotec (talk) 08:53, 8 December 2010 (UTC) - A minor point: I suggest that "Although Monifieth had no harbour, cargo was off-loaded from vessels at low tide and horse-drawn vehicles would move the cargo to nearby destinations.[3]" this is clarified by adding, say, ...cargo was off-loaded from vessels on the Firth of Tay at low tide.... It's not until we get to Geography that we get the answer to this (unasked) question.[reply]
Y Pyrotec (talk) 08:53, 8 December 2010 (UTC) - I happen to find the unnamed (two, not one) railways interesting. The Dundee and Arbroath Railway and the Arbroath and Forfar Railway were 5 ft 6 in gauge railways, two of only two in Scotland and both at Arbroath. I'm curious why they are not named here. P.S. The Dundee and Arbroath Railway is mentioned in the following section Geography, but the line through Monifieth has not been that railway company since about 1880 when it became part of the North British Railway. I quess the line would be best known as the Edinburgh to Aberdeen Line. Pyrotec (talk) 15:40, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

...stopping at this point. Pyrotec (talk) 17:16, 6 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Okay... references have been sorted as above. I found that, as well as the AHDS page moves, RPS had done similar since I cited them originally, so I've gone through the lot and confirmed or corrected them. Will tackle the rest tomorrow. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 00:47, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've reworded the bit about off-loading cargo to say it was off-loaded at Monifieth Sands (in the relatively sheltered Firth of Tay). Catfish Jim & the soapdish 16:05, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]
I've added a mention of the opening of the railway and the detail about its non-standard gauge. I agree, it's interesting and should have a place in the article. I've placed it in 'Modern History'. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 17:08, 7 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I've "ticked off" all those actions as being completed. Pyrotec (talk) 09:40, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Geography -

Y Catfish Jim & the soapdish 11:21, 9 December 2010 (UTC) As mentioned above, Dundee and Arbroath Railway is named but the line through Monifieth has not been that railway company since about 1880 when it became part of the North British Railway. I quess the line would be best known as the Edinburgh to Aberdeen Line.[reply]

Economy -

Catfish Jim & the soapdish 16:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC) * This section makes the point that tourism is important and golf is discussed here and in other sections, but there is no mention of hotels, etc. Do tourist stay on Monifieth or are they just visiting from elsewhere?[reply]

There are a few small hotels within the town, none particularly notable (as per WP:N), as well as a Premier Inn at the Ethiebeaton Park, and the more upmarket Forbes of Kingennie resort. I've mentioned that they exist without getting too spammy. Most tourism is, I believe, golf-related and relies on the proximity to Carnoustie and St Andrews, Monifieth being one of the additional courses to play. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 11:38, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

WP:Lead -

This in intended to be both an introduction to the article and to provide a summary of the main points. The lead is rather "thin", and I would suggest that it needs a copyedit. For example:

Catfish Jim & the soapdish 16:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC) * It has a claim of "has been occupied since Pictish times", which probably needs a minor rewording.[reply]

I've reworded that to give a more accurate depiction of Monifieth's origins. Catfish Jim & the soapdish 16:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Catfish Jim & the soapdish 16:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC) * The final sentence in the second paragraph and the final paragraph seem to contradict each other. The statement "Monifieth's economy thrives mainly on tourism, partly due to its seaside location and the area's association with golf" appears to be true in so far as it summarises what appears in the last paragraph of Economy; but the first paragraph of Economy states: "Monifieth's proximity to Dundee is a key feature of its economy ..." and the final paragraph of the lead states that Monifieth is a dormitory town of Dundee. I suggest that first the relative importance of dormitory town and tourism is clarified and then the lead and the main body of the article are brought into balance to reflect that decision.[reply]

I'm not sure when the bit about tourism crept into the lead. It is a minor contributor to the economy at best, so I removed it.Catfish Jim & the soapdish 16:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Catfish Jim & the soapdish 16:21, 9 December 2010 (UTC) * "The town is served by Monifieth railway station and its nearest major road is the A92.", well yes, but Transport states: "There is at present only a token service, stopping only once a day each way at Monifieth Station (0623 West-bound and 1906 East-bound)." Possibly, the regular bus services to Arbroath & Dundee might be more important than the train, but I don't have any local knowledge, but the bus service does not get a mention.[reply]

I've reworded this accordingly and added mention of the A930, which is the main public transport artery into Dundee.Catfish Jim & the soapdish 16:20, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

This mostly concludes my Initial review. Once these have been addressed, I'll make the final assessment. Pyrotec (talk) 09:44, 8 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Overall summary[edit]

GA review – see WP:WIAGA for criteria

Is it reasonably well written?
A. Prose quality:

B. MoS compliance for lead, layout, words to watch, fiction, and lists:
Is it factually accurate and verifiable?
A. References to sources:
Well-referenced.

B. Citation of reliable sources where necessary:
Well-referenced.

C. No original research:
Is it broad in its coverage?
A. Major aspects:

B. Focused:
Is it neutral?
Fair representation without bias:
Is it stable?
No edit wars, etc:
Does it contain images to illustrate the topic?
A. Images are copyright tagged, and non-free images have fair use rationales:
Well illustrated.

B. Images are provided where possible and appropriate, with suitable captions:
Well illustrated.
Overall:
Pass or Fail:

I'm awarding this article GA-status. Congratulations on acheiving another GA for this locality. Pyrotec (talk) 22:51, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for the meticulous review... it's improved the article a lot! Catfish Jim & the soapdish 23:07, 9 December 2010 (UTC)[reply]