Talk:Mali i Gjerë

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Greek Name[edit]

@Alexikoua, do at least 10% of all sources use the Greek name or on which grounds did you add the name to the lead? AlexBachmann (talk) 19:29, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's partly in Greek territory, per local name it's mentioned as an alternative name in lead. Off course there are many sources that use the Greek form (not only Greek ones). The main title can stay in its Albanian form since most of the mountain is located in Albania (+ most summits as well). There are several mountains that lie on the Greek-Albanian border; Mali i Gjere is one of them. Alexikoua (talk) 21:47, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

If a part of the mountain is in Greece then it does not matter whether 10% of the sources use the Greek name or not. The Greek name belongs in the lede. It is surprising though that some part of the mountain (mountain range?) is in Greece, the article for years did not mention that. Ktrimi991 (talk) 22:21, 29 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article is backed by a couple of references since yesterday. Time to get rid of that -unreferenced- tag.Alexikoua (talk) 01:23, 30 March 2023 (UTC)[reply]

This source reads: [[1]] The total surface of Mali Gjere is 440 km2, mostly located in Albanian territory (about 400 km2). To say it in simple words mostly means that's not entirely located in Albanian territory. Actually when we define a geographic area this covers a specific surface and we have crystal clear reference stating that the surface of this specific mountain massif extents to Greek territory. Alexikoua (talk) 04:11, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

What you cited above is just a (bad) copy of a previous work [2]: The Mali Gjere karst massif is located in south Albania on the border with Greece (Figure 1); its total surface area is 440 km2, mostly located in Albanian territory (54 km2 in Greek territory). Ktrimi991 (talk) 06:42, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The claim that the Albanian name is a translation of the Greek one is sourced to Giakoumis who is not a linguist. Not to mention the fact that it is impossible to go back in time and find who named the mountain. Ktrimi991 (talk) 06:55, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I just checked the link you posted above. You claim that the source says: The total surface of Mali Gjere is 440 km2, mostly located in Albanian territory (about 400 km2). The source actually says: Viroi and Blue Eye Springs (fig. 1, nr 11 and nr 12) issue from the Mali Gjere karst massif which is located in South Albania on the border with Greece; its total surface area 440 km2, mostly located in Albanian territory (54 km2 in Greek territory). It refers to the karst massif, but for some reason you omitted that part from the quote you provided. Ktrimi991 (talk) 07:06, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Mali i Gjere moutain range is between Delvina and Lazarat [3]. It has nothing to do with Greece. Ktrimi991 (talk) 07:13, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

(unindent) The slopes of the mountain are inhabited by the Greek minority, the name is due. Khirurg (talk) 15:10, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

It's also not hard to find sources that describe the mountain as partly located in Greece [4]. Khirurg (talk) 15:48, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That source refers to the aquifer, not to the mountain. The mountain is entirely in Albania. Greeks do not live on the mountain, live near it. There are Albanian speakers today in some Souliote villages and Igoumenitsa, but I do not see the Albanian names in the articles of their mountains. EoyalHeritageAlbanian added a source that says the mountain is from Kardhiq to the Muzine Pass, I posted another one above. Ktrimi991 (talk) 16:45, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The source literally says The Mali gjere Mountain, shared between Albania and Greece. There is not a single source that states the mountain is entirely in Albania. Khirurg (talk) 16:54, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The aquifer is named Mali i Gjere because the main feature in its area is Mali i Gjere. Your source says: Albania shares eight transboundary aquifers with his neighbours (IGRAC 2012), but three of them, are most important, Shkodra Lake shared with Montenegro, Mali Thate-Galičica Mountain shared with North Macedonia, and Mali Gjere Mountain shared with Greece. In the area of the mentioned transboundary aquifers, lives nearly 500,000 inhabitants from all three bordering countries. I added another academic source that says the mountain is bordered in the south by Muzina Pass. Muzina Pass itself is entirely within Albania, hence everything north of it is in Albania.Ktrimi991 (talk) 17:00, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Mali i Gjere mountain can't be 440km2 as it would be much bigger than the Accursed Mountains, including the part in Montenegro and Kosovo. FYI, the Mali i Gjere aquifer includes the mountains of Mali i Gjere, Stugara and Mourgana.Ktrimi991 (talk) 17:05, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Giakoumis states that the Dropull valley is surrounded by this Platovouni mountain range... Well Dropull valley extents south to Greek territory. By the way your provided three offline sources that need verification & off course you can't remove Giakoumis because you simply don't personally like him.Alexikoua (talk) 20:04, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

@Ktrimi991: On Mali i Gjere mountain can't be 440km2 that's your personal opinion but scholarship (Eftimi et al) is very detailed on stating that this mountain range covers a surface a 440 km2, and its also not entirely inside Albanian territory. If you object that you can fill a case in wp:RSN.Alexikoua (talk) 20:14, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Eftimi says the Mali i Gjere karst massif is 440 km2, not the Mali i Gjere mountain itself. Giakoumis nowhere does say that Mali i Gjere is in Greece. Indeed, the Dropull varrey is surrounded by Mali i Gjere in its western and northern part. Open an RfC if you want to seek opinions from editors who understand the difference between a mountain and a karst aquifer formation. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:19, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And I found the "offline sources" on GoogleBooks. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:22, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You know well that Mali i Gjerë is located north of Stugara/Murgana, which constitute the Greek-Albanian border. Not to mention this futile addition about the name. To quote your own words: That's definitely not a constructive way of building an encyclopedia. – Βατο (talk) 11:16, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Elevation[edit]

In one source of the Academy of Sciences of 1985 is mentioned that the highest peak "Maja e Frashërit" has an elevation of 1789m so i assume the sources of 1800m use an approximation. What do you think we should put in the lede? RoyalHeritageAlb (talk) 18:08, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The article should have the correct figure. Ktrimi991 (talk) 18:10, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Sources online[edit]

@Alltan: is kindly requested to provide the urls of those sources he claims that are online [[5]]. Simply reverting without addressing the issue can be easily fall to wp:disruption.Alexikoua (talk) 20:29, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The disruption is you adding tags to sources you disagree with, sth you keep doing every now and then. Copy the quotes and search for them on GoogleBooks, it is so easy. Ktrimi991 (talk) 20:33, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yup. If certain users Google servers don't work that is not Wikipedia's problem. Frivolous tagging will not really do much in this regard. Alltan (talk) 20:39, 9 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All 3 citations are poorly cited and need a full citation, they also lack urls as noted. Instead of blindly reverting those constructive tags you can easily add those urls. That's definitely not a constructive way of building an encyclopedia.Alexikoua (talk) 03:01, 10 April 2023 (UTC)[reply]

"Human History"[edit]

I searched for similar sections around; [[6]][[7]][[8]][[9]][[10]][[11]] But couldn't find a section like this anywhere that shows "what tribe lived around the mountain, 2000 years ago". Because it's just plane ridiculous. HokutoKen (talk) 16:47, 16 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You need to check high quality articles on the topic, see: Alps#History. Human history is part of a region's article even if it concerns a mountain region.Alexikoua (talk) 03:51, 17 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Further unexplained removals will be reported on the issue.Alexikoua (talk) 02:41, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Has nothing to do with quality of the article. This s not Mount Blanc,Olympus or Mount Ararat. Is just a random mountain range. The infromation is unnecessary. HokutoKen (talk) 12:51, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The information is sourced and the mountains are mentioned in the sources. That it's "unnecessary" is just your opinion. By the way have you edited before? Khirurg (talk) 22:17, 19 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]