Talk:Little Saint James, U.S. Virgin Islands

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Island or islet?[edit]

RS have repeatedly called it an island; per NYT it is "a roughly 70-acre island." A recent addition says it is "more accurately, an islet" citing a guidebook. "Islet" is not a technical term; it just describes any small island. For example, the uninhabited Loggerhead Key covers 49 acres but is widely described as an "island" not an "islet." "Islet" is more typically used for very small uninhabited islands such as Imia (9.9 acres). HouseOfChange (talk) 16:40, 5 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Semi-protected edit request on 10 January 2024[edit]

Vadermask (talk) 08:05, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]


FBI recovered tens of thousands of instances of pedophilia recorded onto hard drives, CDs and DVDs. We watched them leave the island with the goods.

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. Rehsarb (talk) 14:45, 10 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Undiscussed move to Epstein Island[edit]

The island's name is Little Saint James. "Epstein Island" may be a common slang usage, but it seems un-encyclopedic to use a pejorative nickname for a geographical location. Before anyone moves the article again, I would like to see some discussion about it. HouseOfChange (talk) 14:31, 29 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

The move was in full accordance with wikipedia policies, but ill initiate a RM Abo Yemen✉ 14:02, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 2 April 2024[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

The result of the move request was: Not moved (non-admin closure) (t · c) buidhe 04:10, 12 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]


Little Saint James, U.S. Virgin Islands → Epstein Island – per WP:COMMONNAME and WP:CONCISE Abo Yemen✉ 14:03, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose "Epstein Island" is less, not more, common than "Little Saint James," per Google (1,350,000 results vs 1,660,000,000 results.) I oppose changing the title of this encyclopedia article about a geographical location to a vulgar recent nickname. HouseOfChange (talk) 15:55, 2 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
    Google trends graph shows that both names are somewhat close to each other, and sometimes the name "Epstein Island" receives slightly more search results Abo Yemen✉ 23:37, 4 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support More search results and COMMONNAME. I only hear Epstein Island, but that's just me. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 12:12, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. Nominator has adduced no evidence that the nickname "Epstein Island" is the COMMONNAME of the island. Zacwill (talk) 18:33, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
See Google Trends, which shows a slight preference to Epstein Isl. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 18:38, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Google Trends merely tells us what people are typing into Google. It does not tell us anything about what "independent, reliable, English-language sources" are using, and so it is not very useful when it comes to determining what the COMMONNAME is. Zacwill (talk) 19:08, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I suppose. I think Google News can show phrase prevalence but I don't want to fiddle with booleans at the moment. 🇺🇲JayCubby✡ please edit my user page! Talk 21:48, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I would however support the removal of the unnecessary disambiguator "U.S. Virgin Islands", in accordance with WP:CONCISE. WP:USPLACES mandates the inclusion of state and territory names when it comes to "populated places", but this does not seem to apply to islands (cf. Martha's Vineyard and Santa Cruz Island). Zacwill (talk) 19:19, 9 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Note that (almost) all of the sources you have adduced also use the name "Little Saint James", and most of them print "Epstein Island" in quotes – signifying that it is a colloquial appellation and not the actual name of the island. Using the name for this article would be a bit like renaming the Ireland article "Emerald Isle" or the Islay article "Queen of the Hebrides". I don't think anyone disputes the basic fact that a place can have more than one name, so I'm not sure what the purpose of citing names like "Aquidneck" was. Zacwill (talk) 12:23, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I’m not disputing it’s the "actual name of the island", I’m basing my strong support on its common name, which is 'Epstein Island'. Ireland is most commonly referred to as 'Ireland', and Islay is most commonly referred to as 'Islay'. Currently, it’s closer to if the Big Ben article was called titled 'Elizabeth Tower' (its actual name), or the Aquidneck article being titled 'Rhode Island' (its actual name). In a lot of articles I have read about Big Ben I am often reminded that it’s "officially called “Elizabeth Tower”". I also think 'Epstein Island' is, unfortunately, more encylopedic, as I don’t believe most people will know what "Little Saint James" refers to. I personally see 'Epstein Island' way more, but I’d also strongly support Jeffrey Epstein’s island as per Bill Gates’s house and Osama bin Laden's house in Khartoum. 10001731848a (talk) 13:30, 10 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Absolutely no idea what is going on above, but oppose. This is a casual/vernacular nickname that does not quite reach common name. PARAKANYAA (talk) 13:57, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. No evidence of common name. Celia Homeford (talk) 14:44, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose. "Epstein Island" is either a nickname or (as in many of the examples linked above) is being used as a 'headline shorthand' term for "Epstein's island" with the text of the story clearly indicating that it's a possessive term and/or referring to the island as Little St James, or putting the term in quotation marks. Brunton (talk) 16:27, 11 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

Bolding alternate names[edit]

The MOS:BOLDALTNAMES guidance describes bolding for "alternate names" in the sense that "Mumbai" is an alternate name for "Bombay." Colloquial nicknames such as "Island of Sin" do not rise to this level of either prominence or equivalence, and should not be bolded in the lead. HouseOfChange (talk) 01:03, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, which is why I removed Island of Sin from the lede entirely. Epstein Island and Pedophile Island rise above merely colloquial names. They are more popular names than "Little Saint James" RobotGoggles (talk) 18:39, 14 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
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