Talk:List of European cities by population within city limits/Archive 2
Largest city in Europe[edit]
As a transcontinental city straddling Eurasia, Istanbul, as a whole, has a population of around 15,519,267 people. While the European part of city, which has 25 districts, has a population of 10,067,617, and the Asian part of the city, with 14 districts, has a population of 5,451,650. However, Moscow, the most populous city entirely within Europe has a population of around 12,615,279 people, larger than the European part of Istanbul, which has 10,067,617 people. The list is about European cities by population within city limits, but Istanbul's Asian part's population is also included in the list, which shouldn't be included. Without it Istanbul becomes the second-largest city in Europe, after Moscow. Danloud (talk) 14:01, 2 April 2020 (UTC)
I don't know... Istanbul is administratively a single city, there is no legal distinction between it's Asian and European side. Turkish metro municipalities legally have the same boundaries as the provinces themselves. Districts within the province do not have any kind of autonomy in metro's and all fall within the larger metro municipality, which is IBB. I have made this same argument on the now defunct Istanbul(province) page, and since then we have gotten rid of that article. Anyway, on the article it clearly states that "Note: The cities are sorted by official population." , and the official population of Istanbul is -according to official Turkish Census Bureau- is around 15.5 million. If there was an official administrative division of the city as such (Istanbul in Europe), then it could be very appropriate to list only the European side's population. But since we are taking only the official figures when making this list, along with Wikipedia policies that prevent us from calculating it ourselves (no original research), the current figure creates a problem. It is my opinion that we should provide the full population of Istanbul on the article. The footnote [a] should be enough. Of course this is a political issue, so it would be very hard to stay neutral on this topic and find a right answer, understandably.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:No_original_research
73.202.30.21 (talk) 19:56, 3 April 2020 (UTC)
- I agree that for Istanbul, only the European population should be considered, which is about 10,072,000 people. Else this list does not make sense, since the rest is in Asia. Istanbul is tricky since it is a transcontinental city, but categorizing it as entirely in Europe makes no sense for the purpose of this list. Eccekevin (talk) 07:00, 20 June 2020 (UTC)
👏🏿👏🏿👏🏿 Nlivataye (talk) 17:24, 9 June 2021 (UTC)
LONDON[edit]
London isn't a city. There is "The City of London" but that's one of the smallest cities in the UK. London is a metropolitan region that comprises boroughs, one of which is a city in and of itself (City of Westminster) and it is administered by the City of London. But if you go to the UK page you are told, quite clearly, Birmingham is the largest city in the UK.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_in_the_United_Kingdom
It might be, for this list, a "special note" might be added for London pointing out whilst many people THINK of London as a city it technically is not. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 2A02:C7F:B00D:8B00:7073:3B00:E29:D7C2 (talk) 14:39, 14 October 2020 (UTC)
- Outside the City of London, Greater London is still run as a single city. GL has a Mayor and Assembly responsible for the entirety of Greater London. The only difference between the City of Westminster and the other London boroughs is in name only. Westminster has no more power than Camden or Lambeth. City status in the United Kingdom is only ceremonial and completely different than city status in the United States and other countries. Greater London may not be a single city on paper, but in reality it is.Bjoh249 (talk) 01:24, 5 February 2021 (UTC)
From the Wikipedia article on Greater London:
Although Greater London would appear to be a city, it lacks any formal recognised city status in the UK and has not been granted an official city charter from the monarch.[10] Instead, Greater London is officially a metropolitan region, not a city.[11]
References
- Very well said - I came here to say the exact same thing. Please remove the stupid claim that London is a ‘city’ immediately! --Overlordnat1 (talk) 13:56, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Picture of Paris[edit]
For your consideration. The current picture of Paris on this page stands out in a negative way. All other cities have photos of beautiful skylines and Paris (which has a beautiful skyline as well), only has a close up photo (with part of Le Louvre, without pyramids and the Pont Royal on it). If you'd pick a close up photo, why not the Eiffel Tower or Arc de Triomphe, but even then: why would place a close-up photo for Paris, while every other city on this page has a skyline photo.. Summarized: This is not a photo of Paris, it is a photo of Pont Royal which in no way gives a good impression of what Paris looks like. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.211.20.190 (talk) 11:12, 2 February 2021 (UTC)
Transcaucasian cities[edit]
Twice I removed Tbilisi from the list because I consider it as Asian (and not included Baku and Jerevan I consider also Asian). I'd be OK if all 3 are included: there's no reason why only Tbilisi should be included, but I'd like to see them with note saying they can be considered Asian. So please let it be or include all 3 of them.--188.75.177.218 (talk) 18:07, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- What you “consider” Tbilisi or other cities to be is entirely irrelevant. The fact is that some respectable definitions do place it in Europe and so removing it entirely is simply wrong. The argument that all three cities should be included or neither is simply absurd. First of all, not all definitions include all three. There are some that place parts of Georgia in Europe but do not extend all the way to Yerevan (one following Kura River). Secondly, if you think other cities qualify for inclusion, nothing is stopping you from including them. Deleting one just because you think they all should be here is childish, destructive, and contrary to the spirit of this encyclopedia. Lastly, please do yourself a favor and stop repeating what you personally “consider” European, this is not a personal blog.--185.70.55.119 (talk) 22:06, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- I consider them as Asian because I learnt that in school and they're Asian according to most definitions. In Europe the most common boundary line is northern of Caucasus: Kuma–Manych Depression or the base of Caucasus, worldwide the more common variant is on crest of Caucasus; but neither of them includes Tbilisi to Europe. According to this article, the Kura river hasn't been used as Euroasian border for 2500 years. The boundary lines that include Transcaucasian region in Europe exists, but most of them include all 3 states completly to Europe and therefore Jerevan and Baku should be included here, too. Because most definitions consider these 3 cities Asian I don't think they must be here, however they can be here (but with a note), but it's nonsence to include only one.--188.75.177.218 (talk) 12:07, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
- Again, your opinions are your own and what you “consider” to be the boundary has little bearing here. Not everyone uses the Kuma Manych definition so there is no reason to prioritize that above all else. To reiterate, if you think it is more fair to include all three capitals, then do so. You have no right to erase content just to make a point and just because you think other cities could be included as well. If you think others should be included, show some respect and actually take the time to contribute that content instead of ceremonially removing somebody else’s work just to make a point.--185.115.5.247 (talk) 12:41, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
- I consider them as Asian because I learnt that in school and they're Asian according to most definitions. In Europe the most common boundary line is northern of Caucasus: Kuma–Manych Depression or the base of Caucasus, worldwide the more common variant is on crest of Caucasus; but neither of them includes Tbilisi to Europe. According to this article, the Kura river hasn't been used as Euroasian border for 2500 years. The boundary lines that include Transcaucasian region in Europe exists, but most of them include all 3 states completly to Europe and therefore Jerevan and Baku should be included here, too. Because most definitions consider these 3 cities Asian I don't think they must be here, however they can be here (but with a note), but it's nonsence to include only one.--188.75.177.218 (talk) 12:07, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
- What you “consider” Tbilisi or other cities to be is entirely irrelevant. The fact is that some respectable definitions do place it in Europe and so removing it entirely is simply wrong. The argument that all three cities should be included or neither is simply absurd. First of all, not all definitions include all three. There are some that place parts of Georgia in Europe but do not extend all the way to Yerevan (one following Kura River). Secondly, if you think other cities qualify for inclusion, nothing is stopping you from including them. Deleting one just because you think they all should be here is childish, destructive, and contrary to the spirit of this encyclopedia. Lastly, please do yourself a favor and stop repeating what you personally “consider” European, this is not a personal blog.--185.70.55.119 (talk) 22:06, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
As the other discussion below is closed, just dropping here my two pennies as I feel the urge to have it noted for the record. The discussion is really held very arbitrarily along only one aspect: the (imagined) pure geographical definition of a border between Asia and Europe. There is no consensus here as there is no universal consensus within the geographical profession either, as some reactions proved. The discussion below is very typical (I wont go further in qualifications just to stay nice). Anyways, an important aspect not even mentioned once if I read correctly, is that all three South Caucasus nations are associated with multiple (yes, not one, but multiple) pan-European political organizations. F.e. leading organizations such as OSCE, CoE, and not least of all, just like "Asian country" Cyprus, are considered to be within the geographical limits of the EU and could technically become EU members, by design of the EU treaty (which doesn't apply to any country beyond the South Caucasus, East and South - nor to any country West of Ireland or Iceland, so the EU has at least a clear nation bound definition). Moreover, also in sports they are part of pan-European cooperation such as UEFA and so on and are taking part in European, not Asian championships in all sports. I can't recall these three are tied with major political (or sport) pan-Asian organisations. Yes, they are "borderlands", where no clear and cut definition can be given of what constitutes Europe or Asia, geographically, culturally, politically and in supra-national association. The sheer resistance to an open mind on all these factors by some is baffling. We are not talking about including Lusaka, Lima, or Damascus. But three capitals of countries that the European Union, thé embodiment of what Europe constitutes considers within the territorial reach. And many other organisations also consider to be part of the "European family" regardless some vague and arbitrary discussion about a border which bears no professional consensus anyways. Just include them, and leave it at that. Labrang (talk) 20:27, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
- For Baku and Jerevan, the article would need statements about geography, because I do not think that the article currently qualifies as Wikipedia:Popculture.
- This is a list of cities in the geographic region of Europe. Sports and the EU do not imply geography.
- The European Union could in theory encompass nations of the Francophonie, etc, and not just geographically European nations. Altanner1991 (talk) 01:51, 6 September 2022 (UTC)