Talk:Instant Karma!/GA1

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Reviewer: Khazar2 (talk · contribs) 03:01, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

I'll be glad to take this review. Initial comments to follow in the next 1-5 days. Thanks in advance for your work on this one! -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:01, 27 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Initial coments[edit]

This looks like a strong article on first pass, meeting or close to meeting most of the GA criteria. Thanks for your hard work on it, it's much appreciated.

I have a few suggestions to add clarity and context below. The biggest suggestion I'd make is to expand on the description of the song itself, to describe it to a reader who might not be familiar with it. (It makes me sad to think of such people, but apparently they're out there.) Structure/lyrics/themes seems worth its own section, like the "Composition and lyrics" section of Good Article Lithium (Nirvana song). Sources about the lyrics, themes, and composition appear readily available through a Google Books search, and I've noted some below. If you disagree with these suggestions, though, I'm glad to discuss.

I also made some minor copyedits for style and grammar as I went. Please take a look to be sure I didn't inadvertently introduce any errors, and feel free to revert anything you disagree with! -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:23, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The sleeve in the infobox is described as "depicting different artist name"--clarify different from what?

Done Clarified. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 02:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The single is described in the infobox as from the "Plastic Ono Band", but this isn't mentioned in the text. Can you clarify the relationship between the recording and the POB?

Done I think I've clarified it. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 13:00, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The lead could use expansion to properly summarize the article--perhaps a one-sentence description of the song, a mention that it was written, recorded, and released in such a short time, etc.

Done Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 18:55, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

"Despite Spector's "wall of sound technique being used on the Beatles' Get Back/Let It Be tapes" -- Where does the quotation that starts at wall of sound close?

Done Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 02:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

" The song was later included on the Rykodisc reissue" -- Does this refer to "Instant Karma!" or "Who Has Seen the Wind?"

Done "Who Has Seen the Wind?" was included. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 02:26, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Minor context would help this article work as a stand-alone piece (I've added a bit of this already). Consider clearing up basic connections that may seem very obvious to you and me, but wouldn't necessarily be to a high schooler clicking on this article: John Lennon was a Beatle, Yoko Ono is his wife, George Harrison was a Beatle, etc.

Done Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 14:43, 31 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The article has very little description of the actual song. Do any of these sources address the lyrics? If not, I'd suggest adding a sentence or two attempting to describe the song's subject/lyrics. This source might give you a start: [1]. Here's some more discussion by him of the song's origins: [2]

Done I can't add a source for the second book as no preview is available. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 19:45, 4 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

The given source appears to list different tracks as added to the non-Holland CD release: "Bless You, Mother" and "Oh My Love" instead of "Bless You" and "Mother". Is this a case of alternate titles, or just a mix-up? [3]

As the song titles are in italics in the source it's not really that clear, but it's "Bless You" and "Mother". Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 02:28, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done Oh, that makes sense. Thanks for clarifying. -- Khazar2 (talk) 03:16, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Some discussion of critical response would also be a useful addition for completeness. For example, this source says that "many considered it his finest achievement since leaving the Beatles"--though that muddies the waters a bit if this song was released before the break-up.[4] This source also appears to have analysis, though I can't open it here.[5] Is it possible for any more to be added about this?

Added former source. The latter is more or less in one of Blaney's other books, John Lennon: Listen to This Book (which I'm trying to find, along with other sources). Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 18:48, 13 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done

File:JohnLennonInstantKarmaFrench7InchSingleCover.jpg needs a different fair use rationale, as it contains an image (the apple) as well as typefaces, etc. The normal album cover rationale should be sufficient. -- Khazar2 (talk) 14:23, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Done changed to the regular album cover rationale. Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 02:43, 29 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for taking this one (rather quickly!). If you don't mind, I'd like to start work on fixing the issues tomorrow, if that's okay? Best, yeepsi (Talk tonight) 19:37, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

That'd be fine--no rush at all. -- Khazar2 (talk) 20:07, 28 March 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Just wanted to check in on this one--there's one more point above I'd like your thoughts on when you get a chance. Keep me posted, Khazar2 (talk) 23:36, 8 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks for addressing these! -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

Closing review[edit]

Hi Yeepsi, thanks for your work so far. Unfortunately, I still see a number of issues in the article following the expansion. I've listed a few individual ones I couldn't fix myself below, but I'm concerned by the number of new and remaining errors,[6] including an incorrect quotation.[7] I'm therefore going to close the review at this time. I think this article's getting close to Good Article status, but still needs some close attention to copyediting and detail, and it's better for that take place outside of the time pressure of a GA review. I'll fill out the table below in just a moment to address the criteria in more detail.

I do really appreciate your work to bring the article this far--it's improved a lot! Keep up the good work, -- Khazar2 (talk) 00:56, 14 April 2013 (UTC)[reply]

""Who Has Seen the Wind?", which Lennon has no part in the performance,[8] was later included on the Rykodisc reissue of the couple's Wedding Album.[24]" -- the phrase "which Lennon has no part in the performance" needs to be rewritten, both to change to past tense and to make it fit grammatically. Maybe ""Who Has Seen the Wind?", on which Lennon did not perform,"?
"Independent Music Publishing - Time-Bomb Songs: They Lie Dormat, Then Blow Up Big"" -- is it correct for this to read "dormat" and not "dormant"?
"The song's theme of karma was brought about in a conversation by Melinde Kendall, between Beatle John Lennon, his wife Yoko Ono, Ono's ex-husband, Anthony Cox, and his wife, Kendall." --this sentence confuses me--is the "Kendall" at the end of this sentence also Melinde Kendall? Would it be accurate to rewrite this as something like "Melinde Kendall mentioned karma, which would become the song's theme, in a conversation with Beatle John Lennon, his wife Yoko Ono, and Kendall's husband (and Ono's ex-husband) Anthony Cox?"
"The main musicians at the recording, Harrison, Klaus Voormann, and Alan White, were dubbed as a different variety of the Plastic Ono Band." -- The "different variety" is an odd phrase to use here. It would help first to give a moment's context of what the Plastic Ono Band was. Then it could be better clarified as what's meant by "different variety" here, and also to make it clear who dubbed them this.
The "Recording" section appears to contradict itself. The first paragraph says that Lennon was surprised that Spector used his "wall of sound" technique, while the second paragraph says that Lennon had wanted this. Can this be more logically organized and reconciled?
" Organe Coast Magazine" -- I'm guessing this should be "Orange Coast"? (Maybe "Organ Coast"?)
"minimalist [...] but far more relaxed and humorous."" -- this quotation appears to need a little more context-- "more relaxed and humorous" than what?

Rate	Attribute	Review Comment
1. Well-written:
	1a. the prose is clear, concise, and understandable to an appropriately broad audience; spelling and grammar are correct.	Article contains numerous spelling and grammatical issues.
	1b. it complies with the Manual of Style guidelines for lead sections, layout, words to watch, fiction, and list incorporation.	Article still needs work on lead to address sections like critical response, and composition and lyrics.
2. Verifiable with no original research:
	2a. it contains a list of all references (sources of information), presented in accordance with the layout style guideline.
	2b. reliable sources are cited inline. All content that could reasonably be challenged, except for plot summaries and that which summarizes cited content elsewhere in the article, must be cited no later than the end of the paragraph (or line if the content is not in prose).	Quotations should be checked for accuracy.
	2c. it contains no original research.
3. Broad in its coverage:
	3a. it addresses the main aspects of the topic.	Article has improved a lot in this area and now covers all main aspects.
	3b. it stays focused on the topic without going into unnecessary detail (see summary style).
	4. Neutral: it represents viewpoints fairly and without editorial bias, giving due weight to each.
	5. Stable: it does not change significantly from day to day because of an ongoing edit war or content dispute.
6. Illustrated, if possible, by media such as images, video, or audio:
	6a. media are tagged with their copyright statuses, and valid non-free use rationales are provided for non-free content.
	6b. media are relevant to the topic, and have suitable captions.
	7. Overall assessment.	Not listing at this time

Cultural references[edit]

Not sure exactly how to use this talk function, so forgive me if this comment is in the wrong place. I have a suggestion for your article: Under "Cultural References" you could add that in their 1971 song "I've Seen All Good People", the progressive rock band Yes includes the lyrics "Send an instant karma to me", presumably in reference to the Lennon Song. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I've_Seen_All_Good_People but in that article, the lyric is misquoted as "Send that instant karma to me". See also https://www.google.com/search?q=lyrics+I%27ve+seen+all+good+people&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8 for full song lyrics. Rhyolitewiki (talk) 04:02, 14 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]