Talk:Here, There and Everywhere

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Untitled[edit]

I would like someone knowledgeable about Wikipedia to add a "recording" section, and mention the fact that the Beatles begin a quiet finger-snap at the last chorus of the song. I think most people who hear this song among the noise and prattle of the day have never heard it in a quiet setting with, say, quality headphones on. The snap is lovely and creates a special mood to those who hear it. Thanks.

^ I've just heard this, it is wonderful! Thank you - not sure it should be on the main article though! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.145.100.8 (talk) 21:56, 26 October 2010 (UTC)[reply]

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God Only Knows?[edit]

Okay, this has bugged me for many years...

When discussing his song "Here, There and Everywhere", Paul McCartney has often cited Brian Wilson's "God Only Knows" as his main source of inspiration.

Has he? Or is this circular reporting? Because I've never heard from McCartney himself about such a connection. The earliest source I can find on that is this magazine snippet:

[...] "Here There and Everywhere" whose preamble ( "to lead a better life" ) was directly inspired by the musical preludes Brian has composed for Pet Sounds "Wouldn't It Be Nice" and "God Only Knows".

Which seems to be embellishing McCartney's remarks from 1990. To my understanding, all McCartney has ever said is that the "ooo" block harmonies were lifted from the Beach Boys, and he even asserts to the interviewer that nothing else in the song was influenced by the Californians. God Only Knows doesn't have the kind of old-fashioned preamble that he was talking about. He must have been thinking of older songs like I'm So Young and There's No Other (Like My Baby) (both of which, incidentally, were recorded by the Beach Boys in 1965). ili (talk) 02:16, 16 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

In Walter Everett's 1999 book The Beatles as Musicians: Revolver through the Anthology (Oxford University Press, 1999) he writes this: "One of McCartney's gems, 'Here, There and Everywhere,' is supposed to have grown from his hearing of the Beach Boys' 'God Only Knows' (brand new in May 1966) at the side of the Weybridge pool, but as the composer says, 'you wouldn't have known.'" (p. 60). Everett justifies this claim in a footnote by pointing to three primary sources. He doesn't quote from them, but I will here:
  • Gambaccini, Paul (1976). Paul McCartney in his own words. New York: Quick Fox. p. 60. ISBN 0-8256-3910-7.: "I may be influenced by something, but it's in my head and doesn't necessarily show in the song. 'Here, There and Everywhere' was supposed to be a Beach Boys song, but you wouldn't have known."
  • Goodman, Joan (December 1984). "Interview: Paul and Linda McCartney". Playboy. No. 31. p. 107.: "I wrote ['Here, There and Everywhere'] by John's pool one day."
  • Elson, Howard (1986). McCartney: Songwriter. London: W.H. Allen. pp. 186–187. ISBN 0-491-03325-7.: "HERE, THERE AND EVERYWHERE: Old fashioned love song, inspired by Jane Asher, with a two-line 'thirties-style, semi-talking introduction. Written at John Lennon's house in Weybridge and influenced by The Beach Boys' 'God Only Knows'."
I guess it's that third one that justifies it. Beatles author Robert Rodriguez writes this in his Revolver book (Backbeat Books, 2012): "Though there is no obvious resemblance, Paul has stated many times through the years that Pet Sounds's 'God Only Knows' ... influenced him when composing and arranging 'Here, There and Everywhere.'" (p. 78). I'm not sure it's really our job to try to find primary source quotations justifying claims anyway. It's like Revolver influencing Smile – there are plenty of secondary sources which mention the influences, even if you don't have a primary source. Tkbrett (✉) 14:21, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Pinging JG66 – zmbro (talk) (cont) 16:59, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I was going to wait until I was back among my books (about 2 weeks' time) before replying here, but Tkbrett touched on the main things I was going to say. Namely, Rodriguez's statement that McCartney "has stated many times through the years", etc. – which has to trump whether any Wikipedia contributor happens to have found comments in past interviews or not. (As it happens, I do remember seeing another McCartney interview, from the '90s perhaps, where he cites "God Only Knows" as a direct inspiration.) The other thing is WP:RGW: we're not here to set the record straight, a reliable source needs to do that – and then we'd report it.
The article text should be changed back to how it was before or something similar. JG66 (talk) 19:33, 20 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I agree it was fine as it was before.
I've sometimes heard Mark Lewisohn express that Paul is perhaps the most interviewed person alive. As you suggest, we should definitely be relying on authors like Rodriguez to determine what Paul has said in interviews rather than expecting we can find all the answers on our own. Tkbrett (✉) 13:38, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:RGW doesn't apply here. If I wrote a false claim on Wikipedia that was then republished by (supposedly) reliable sources, we would certainly have a problem. No musicologist is infallible (WP:CONTEXTMATTERS) and we shouldn't be publishing dubious claims that aren't supported by primary sources (WP:REDFLAG), even if some editors feel that scrutinizing secondary sources falls outside our "job description" (WP:IAR, WP:DISCUSSCONSENSUS).
Doesn't it strike anybody odd that we can't retrieve a single direct quote from McCartney, "the most interviewed person alive"(!!!), in which he names GOK as a direct influence on his song? Not even in any of the available interviews where he waxes lyrical about Pet Sounds. It certainly puzzled me, having closely studied the harmonies of both songs and finding that they have nothing special in common. Truth is, GOK is one of the few Beach Boys hits that don't feature "ooo" block harmonies. There aren't even any "backing vocals" at all! The song actually features a set of interlocking lead melodies which appear during the bridge and the coda. Nothing of the sort occurs on HT&E, but block harmonies do appear on other Pet Sounds cuts.
I'm assuming Elson didn't interview McCartney for his book. Since it was published in '86, several years before McCartney had started being more vocal about his Beach Boys fascination, then I suppose there might be an earlier, albeit inaccessible interview where McCartney does, in fact, cite GOK as an influence on HT&E. Good enough to convince me... ili (talk) 19:38, 21 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
A slight update: I was listening to an episode of Robert Rodriguez's podcast, Something About the Beatles, and he does seem to contradict the statement he makes in his 2012 book. In episode 235, beginning around 28:30, he and a guest talk about the influence of PS on Paul. The guest mentions that Paul cites "God Only Knows" as the main influence for "Here, There and Everywhere" in his 2021 book The Lyrics. Rodriguez mentions later that he wished he could have be a fact checker on the book, though he does not explicitly contradict Paul. Tkbrett (✉) 14:42, 13 November 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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