Talk:Henry V of England/Archive 1

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Archive 1

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Henry V, (August 9?September 16, 1387 - August 31, 1422)

What does the "?" mean? I daren't remove it in case it's historical! -- Tarquin 22:20 13 Jun 2003 (UTC)

"Initial text adapted from a 1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica article"

I thought the idea was not to copy other encyclopedias in wiki!

See: Wikipedia:1911 Encyclopaedia Britannica Ausir 21:40, 28 Feb 2004 (UTC)

Why the heck is Henry V referred to as "Hal" in this article?-----hal is his childhood/teenage affectionate nickname User:Skyshadow

Blame Shakespeare. —Anville 20:49, 4 Sep 2004 (UTC)

Does anyone know the context of Clarence in this article? I went to disambig it, thinking it meant Clarence, England - but it looks like it is referring to a person?? --Chuq 02:12, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

It's Henry's brother, the Duke of Clarence. See 1421. I've corrected the link. Eugene van der Pijll 08:03, 22 Apr 2004 (UTC)

I notice this article only contains one fleeting reference to Shakespeare and even then it doesn't really say that he wrote a very famous play based on Henry V's life. Perhaps the play and the notable cinematic versions of said play should be mentioned somewhere as they are, in a way, part of Henry's lasting influence. --Lairor 05:09, 12 Apr 2005 (UTC)

does anyone else think this suffers from POV problems a little bit? if its just me i'll shut up--Alhutch 23:33, 30 September 2005 (UTC)

It's not just you. The original source was the Encyclopedia Britannica, not the "Encyclopedia Gallia," which would have had a somewhat different POV. Bigturtle

"Final words and legacy"

The vast majority of this section is in quotation marks, but no source is given. Is it the Encyclopaedia Britannica, or something else? - dharmabum (talk) 09:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

I can't find an actual quote of his last words in this article. Am I just missing them? McGehee 01:38, 29 May 2006 (UTC)

Miracles of Henry V

I remember years ago being told by a priest that some miracles of Henry V had been recognised by the Vatican and that his beatification had started. Can anyone shed any light on this?

Wow. I hope that's true, because then he might be the first English King to be made a saint since St Edward the Confessor.

Burial Place of Henry V

Does anyone know where he is buried? Is his wife Catherine of Valois buried with him?

No she is not buried with him. I think he is buried in either Westminster or Canterbury

Both were buried in Westminster Abbey but not together - Catherine's remains remained in an open coffin until being eventually reburied.Cloptonson (talk) 11:17, 18 February 2022 (UTC)

Wild Inaccuracy

The article states "Henry V was also a very open homosexual and had sex with William Shakspeare and Kathy Ariano." This is remarkable since Henry V died 142 years before Shakespeare was born. A search on Kathy Ariano finds no relevant information. This needs editing. 63.164.202.130 13:06, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

Character

Desmond Seward's The Hundred Years War. The English in France 1337-1453 portrays Henry V as an alternating very pious and very brutal man, nigh obsessed with his "rights" for the French throne (ironic given his "right" to the English one). None of this is reflected in this article. 205.157.110.11 23:37, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

Too many pictures?

I've just re-arranged the images where they seemed to be breaking and overlying the text—I hope this works on all browsers. However two of them, the imagined one from "Cassell" and the mid-distance statue, may not add a great deal to the understanding of the subject and his context in history. What do other editors think? --Old Moonraker (talk) 22:13, 17 March 2008 (UTC)

Illegitimate children?

Does anyone have any sources which say that he fathered illegitimate children? I find it odd that he is not credited with at least one out-of-wedlock child or a mistress or two.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 08:59, 18 February 2009 (UTC)

Henry V is not the only British monarch whose private life was scandal-free from start to finish. The 'bad-Prince-turned-good-King' stuff in Shakespeare's plays is a myth. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 116.203.175.140 (talk) 19:14, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

No need for Heir-apparent Nav & Infobox stuff

We should stick with just the Kings & Dukes info. For example, we don't have the British royalty articles with Prince of Wales in their Infoboxes & Navboxes. GoodDay (talk) 16:25, 6 April 2009 (UTC)

Motive for the invasion

The article makes no mention of the official reason for Henry's invasion of France -- he had resurrected a claim to the French throne originally made, and withdrawn, by his great-grandfather Edward III. By modern standards this was a feeble excuse for a brutal invasion, and the real hero of the war was Joan Darc, fighting in defense of her country. His claim was particularly absurd because he was not even Edward III's next of kin. Amazingly, English monarchs continued to add "King of France" to their titles long after the French kicked them out; I believe it was James I who finally dropped the title.

– I believe that Henry's claim to be King of France is less of a screamer than we see it as from our point of view. With the Norman invasion in 1066, William set up a monarchy that spanned the channel, encompassing parts of Britain and France. Fast forward over 100 years and the King of England is married to Eleanor of Aquitaine who brings w/ her much of the southwest of France and a previous marriage to Louis. However tenuous the claim, it was not created from whole cloth. There is considerable precedent for a cross channel claim. Heck, one of the titles of the current monarch is Defender of the Faith, given by the pope to Henry VIII just before he reformed the CE and broke from the RC.Jude17 (talk) 20:42, 8 March 2017 (UTC)Jude17

Henry's reputation has been inflated in English-speaking countries by Shakespeare's play, which makes him look more heroic and less barbaric than he really was. CharlesTheBold (talk) 04:22, 20 September 2009 (UTC)

[i]fighting in defense of her country[/i] - She was fighting in defense of someone else's country in a quarrel of royal dynasties: she came from what was still at the time a German duchy - Lorraine. 19th century heroic narratives and Mila Jovovich showcases aren't acceptable bases. Oh, and it was only dropped under the Hanoverians, long after any possibility that the claim was legitimate had evaporated (same as with the claims to the duchy of Normandy, they would lie in a side branch of the Bourbons if you follow kinship). 70.55.54.230 (talk) 11:19, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Your declarations are quite hard to follow, but surely you don't expect anyone to take seriously your claim that Joan of Arc was not French!--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 11:27, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Joan of Arc was from Domrémy-la-Pucelle, which was in the Duchy of Bar. At the time, the Duchy of Bar was apparently half in the Holy Roman Empire and half in the Kingdom of France. As far as I can tell from Google Earth, Domrémy was in the French half of the duchy, on the west side of the Meuse. Moreover, the Duchy of Bar was, as a whole closely connected to France - its duke at the time of Joan's activities was René of Anjou, Charles VII's brother-in-law and one of the main figures at his court. So she was French. At any rate, do we really need to have nationalistic arguments about medieval western European history? I thought we only got this kind of nonsense when we went east of the Elbe. john k (talk) 14:33, 23 September 2009 (UTC)
Just wanted to point out that according to Wikipedia's article on Joan, she signed her name in German-style spelling: Johanne. Make of this what you will.CharlesTheBold (talk) 17:37, 6 January 2010 (UTC)

Birthdate

As i read the sources, there is some doubt about his date of birth, between four possible dates in August & September 1386 and '87, with none of them to be especially preferred. That being the case, i just reverted a bold edit which seemed to lay emphasis on one particular date, and tried to offer all four. Discussion? Cheers, LindsayHi 10:53, 28 November 2009 (UTC)

Good move, Lindsay. For what it's worth, I support the 9 August 1387 birthdate rather than 16 September; but you are right that the article should not favour one over the others.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 12:50, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
I've always read that it was 1387. GoodDay (talk) 22:33, 28 November 2009 (UTC)
Authoritative reference from ODNB supporting the current version reinstated. --Old Moonraker (talk) 08:40, 30 November 2009 (UTC)

POV

This article contains many historical events that nobody is sure how they really occured, with differing points of view(of course with English historians glorifying Henry the fifth and twisting the truths and facts to satisfy their vanity, and French and other historians doing the same but with an opposing view), but most claims in this article are written from the point of view of English historians, so I took the liberty of making very minor changes. The source was the Discovery Civilization Channel, and I can't really make a reference to my TV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Propaganda328 (talk • contribs) 10:58, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

So that other contributors can help improve the article, can you identify points in the text where "English historians...twisting the truths and facts to satisfy their vanity" appear? --Old Moonraker (talk) 13:11, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Try seeing how it was written. They said that Henry was 'forced' to execute the prisoners when news of a third attack came, and then he ordered the executions to stop when it didn't(I don't exactly remember what was written). Others of Henry's fans make another claim that French Cavalry had taken over Henry's personal bodyguard in the rear and he feared the prisoners might join them. Everyone makes an excuse about it, but I believe I was watching a respectable unbiased Channel when I saw the documentary on TV, which said nothing of any third attack, or cavalry in the rear, but just that he did not deal in ransoms, so he just slaughtered them. How would you react if a Neo-Nazi German user came on to the Holocaust page and edited it to put that Hitler was 'forced' to kill the jews after the Russian campaign drained Germany of resources that would be needed to transport 6 million people to Madagascar, and he later regretted it?
Oh and sorry about the 'Most Historians' part, you can remove it if you want. Propaganda328 (talk) 19:21, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

It might well be valid: I'd rather leave it in but with a reliable source that says specifically this. Equally, the "excuses" for Henry don't have a source either, and they should: the {{cn}} request should be read as applying to the whole paragraph. --Old Moonraker (talk) 17:45, 9 July 2010 (UTC)

Reference

The battle of Agincourt is observed by scouts of a high tech alien society in the science fiction novel "Out of the Dark" by David Weber.

I have no idea how or even if this information would be included in the article.


Dfmclean (talk) 06:19, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

I think it would be more relevant to include it in the main Battle of Agincourt article rather than Henry V's.--Jeanne Boleyn (talk) 06:23, 28 September 2010 (UTC)

Thomas Walsingham and the Lollards

The article claims that Thomas Walsingham attributed the "disappointment of Lollards" as the source of tales of the prince's change from a roisterer to a sober, puritan, king. I couldn't find this detail in Walsingham's Chronica Maiora (Preest translation, 2005). It seems true that Henry eventually gave up on his Lollard former companion John Oldcastle after he was captured and tried, but this was probably for pressing political reasons rather than as quoted. Considering removing this, subject to other editors' views. --Old Moonraker (talk) 15:58, 13 March 2011 (UTC)

Marginally covered by a new ref: stet. --Old Moonraker (talk) 17:01, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

"Harri V"

Why is this in the lead when there's already an interwiki link to Harri V? It's not impossible that Henry spoke a little Welsh, given his assimilation of Welsh fighters into his armies, but I can't see any justification for having this in the lead. If we were to have anything like that it should be a reflection of something in the body text, but it isn't. I propose a deletion. --Old Moonraker (talk) 09:10, 18 December 2011 (UTC)

No objections? OK, implementing. --Old Moonraker (talk) 07:19, 4 January 2012 (UTC)

"Political reference in 2012"

Is this new section relevant? It reports a random remark from a talk-show host. I propose a deletion, based on WP:RECENT. --Old Moonraker (talk) 07:41, 3 May 2012 (UTC)

I agree; it's irrelevant. If it belongs anywhere, which it doesn't, it would be better placed in Henry V (play) than here. Cheers, LindsayHello 08:17, 3 May 2012 (UTC)
OK, all done? Implementing. --Old Moonraker (talk) 06:41, 6 May 2012 (UTC)

Henry v daughter

didn't henry v have a daughter Mary who married sir William Aldrich ? — Preceding unsigned comment added by Plantagenet v (talk • contribs) 15:40, 21 April 2015 (UTC)

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Early Life

Early life "Henry was born in the tower above the gatehouse of Monmouth Castle, Monmouth, Principality of Wales (and for that reason was sometimes called Henry of Monmouth)."

The principality of Wales only refers to the territories of the House of Aberffraw. Monmouth was never part of the 'principality' of Wales.

It should just say Monmouth, Wales. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 81.156.54.87 (talk) 18:30, 19 April 2016 (UTC)

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this article needs more references

There are lot of paragraphs throughout the article that do not have a single citation. —howcheng {chat} 07:06, 7 April 2017 (UTC)

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