Talk:HMS Cressy (1899)

re-write?

This page deals mostly with the 7th Cruiser Squadron and the Action of 22 September 1914, both of which have their own pages now. (in fact I took the text for the summary of the sinkings at 7CS from this page). So I'm proposing to re-write the service history section so it's principally about Cressy. Opinions? Xyl 54 (talk) 17:44, 31 December 2008 (UTC)

OK, done. Xyl 54 (talk) 16:00, 9 January 2009 (UTC)

GA Review

This review is transcluded from Talk:HMS Cressy (1899)/GA1. The edit link for this section can be used to add comments to the review.

Reviewer: Zawed (talk · contribs) 23:53, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

I'll take this one, comments to follow in due course. Zawed (talk) 23:53, 22 February 2014 (UTC)

Infobox

• I think you need a cite for the namesake. Everything else appears to be cited in the body of the article

Design and description

• The conversion of hp to kw is different to what is listed in the infobox

Service history

• "...and she had to return." Return to Portsmouth?
• The lead mentions she was recommissioned at the start of the war so presumably she was decommissioned - maybe in 1909? This, and the recommissioning, isn't explicitly stated in the body of the article

Fate

• I initially read this as taking place while she was sailing to the Nore with the German prisoners (from the previous section) until I read the linked article for the 22 Sept action. The start of this section needs to provide better context, Eg Cressy was on patrol...
• "By the time that Drummond ordered...": No context for Drummond, presumably the ship's captain?

References

• Admittedly a real nitpick even by my standards but shouldn't the order of Friedman references be reversed so they are in chronological order?

Other stuff

• Image tags look appropriate
• No duplicate links
• No dab links
• Checklinks tools says the wrecksite.eu (which is in the external links section of the article) is suspicious but the link works for me so make of that what you will...

Apart from the issues noted above, this is reasonably comprehensive article, well sourced and cited. I'll check back in a few days to check where this is at. Cheers. Zawed (talk) 08:25, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

All done. Very helpful comments.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 10:36, 27 February 2014 (UTC)

Missed one, which I have fixed. Passing as GA. Zawed (talk) 00:07, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

Pre-FAC feedback

Probably more from FN 21 re controversy of scavenging the scrap that can be added. Cas Liber (talk · contribs) 03:50, 1 March 2014 (UTC)

turned turtle

With respect, you "threw out the baby with the bath water."
Turn Turtle. To turn over completely, with keel uppermost. P. 370
Capsize. To overturn or upset. Said to be derived from words meaning 'to move a barrel by turning it on head and bilge alternatively' page 71
Layton, C.W.T., F.R.A.S., M.R.I.N. Assoc. R.I.N.A.; Clissold, Peter, Commander R.N.R. (Retd.), Master Mariner, Younger Brother of Trinity House, Fellow of the Royal Institute of Navigation revised ; Miller, Captain A. G. W. Extra Master revised this edition (1994). "Dictionary of Nautical Words and Terms: 8000 Definitions in Navigation, Seamanship, Rigging, Meteorology, Astronomy, Naval Architecture, Average, Ship Economics, Hydrography, Cargo Stowage, Marine Engineering, Ice Terminology, Buoyage, Yachting, etc" (PDF) (Revised Fourth ed.). Glasgow: Brown, Son & Ferguson, Ltd., Nautical publishers. Retrieved February 23, 2014.{{cite web}}: CS1 maint: multiple names: authors list (link)
See Glossary of nautical terms 7&6=thirteen (☎) 19:40, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

I know perfectly well what it means. Cressy never floated upside down for any significant time before she sank; she floated on her side for a time and then sank, i.e. capsized. So no baby has left the building.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 20:39, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

OK. Was not trying to be contentious or dickish. So please go off half-cocked and conclude that any insult was intended. I know what you do, and you only have my respect. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 20:45, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Your first two statements kinda cancelled each other out, so I took it a bit amiss when you threw a dictionary at me.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 21:10, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Sorry for any misunderstanding.

Assuredly, there is an overlap between the definitions. Capsize may or may not mean "inverted." Ordinarily (but not always) a capsize in a large ship (if it rolls far enough) will inevitably lead to turn turtle, keels over or duck dive. I had put those definitions and synonyms into Wiktionary, but as I don't have an account there and edited as an IP, they got burned out real fast. In any event, in sailing particularly a broach can lead to a knock down (where the mast is in the water, but the boat is not yet overturned -- this is recognized in the sailing literature) but it does not inevitably lead to a turtle. Someone who edited the Costa Concordia disaster described it as capsized. FWIW, I did not put any of this back into this article, but simply posted it here for your consideration. 7&6=thirteen (☎) 21:31, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

Personally, I'd say that turning turtle is a subset of capsize where the boat floats for a while upside down. But I suspect that's used rather loosely and synonymously for capsize.--Sturmvogel 66 (talk) 22:06, 5 March 2014 (UTC)

It's a messy factual inquiry, with a lot of subsets of scenarios. And we probably can't (and don't need to) authoritatively solve it here. Cheers! 7&6=thirteen (☎) 00:33, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

Ships crest for HMS Cressy

I was under the assumption that all Royal Navy ships had a crest. I have tried, without success to locate a badge for HMS Cressy. I think the inclusion of the ships crest, if one exists, would enhance the article and add to the history of the ship. Is anyone aware of the crest applicable to HMS Cressy ? CGStewart (talk) 20:40, 28 January 2015 (UTC)