Talk:First Lady of Venezuela

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Mark for deletion[edit]

This article has no content, other than a list. It has no references. A cursory search online shows almost zero hits, other than mirrors of this article and some joke about Naomi Campbell. There is scant evidence that this term actually exists for the spouse of the Venezuelan leader. Earthlyreason (talk) 03:29, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The change of name to 'List of' is certainly an improvement. But there is still no supporting evidence that this term is actually used, here or in the Spanish version[1] or in a brief search online.
The List of First Ladies of the United States is supported by an entire article on First Lady, which has references, as well as being uncontentious.
My move to delete is for a clear reason: that the term is not in actual usage. If authoritative evidence to the contrary can be found about the position of 'first lady' in Venezuela (in any language), and not merely an occasional mention, I shall be happy to concede.
Earthlyreason (talk) 11:57, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

This term is widely use in Spanish "primera dama de venezuela" 1 and the English term is also use 2. The article is a translation from the Spanish Wikipedia where the article is uncontentious. --Jmundo (talk) 02:04, 4 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]


Main Entry Webster dictionary 1: first lady Function: noun

Usage: often capitalized F&L
Date: 1834
1 : the wife or hostess of the chief executive of a country or jurisdiction.
2 : the leading woman of an art or profession.
--Jmundo (talk) 20:24, 3 January 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Jmundo, thanks for taking up the discussion, and I appreciate your chosen Wikipedia specialisation of saving worthwhile articles from deletion.

However, IMHO this particular article is still struggling to justify the epithet 'worthwhile', using the term First Ladies. I now change my suggested action from proposed deletion to re-naming it something like List of spouses of presidents of Venezuela.

The term first lady is not universal. Your Webster’s entry refers merely to a country, not any or all countries. And Collins precedes its definition with "in the US". A simple search quickly reveals that the term is commonly applied to presidential partners in France, Argentina and Mexico. But not to those in Nicaragua, Italy, Germany, Russia, China or Britain.

You have helpfully provided links to biographies of several wives/partners of Venezuelan leaders. But I can’t find in them any use of the term "primera dama de Venezuela", let alone "first lady of Venezuela".

The Google search on the English term produces a trivial number of independent hits [2]. (about 30, compared with 11,000 for 'first lady of Argentina', where it clearly has traction.) "Primera dama de Venezuela" gives nearly 3,000 Google hits [3]. Do these offer solid support for the use of the term? My Spanish is not up to analysing them all, but I did see this one that might support your case [4].

So is the Spanish term in wide use, as you suggest? If it is, then I could accept the introduction of the English term. If not, then the name of the article should not attempt to create a new term, parallel to that in the US.

Especially, the article begins, “… is the unofficial title …” So, how is the president’s wife usually referred to? I suggest that this page follows that, with perhaps a short note on the unofficial variant.

  • Comparing number of hits: Chavez, the president of Venezuela is not married, and "officially, no one exercises the role of first lady of Venezuela". 1. In the case of Argentina the ex-first lady, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner is now the President of the country. She also served as a senator and first lady at the same time.
  • Looking at the sources I have no doubt that the term is use in Spanish. The Spanish Wikipedia doesn't say that the term "is the unofficial title.." but that the first lady has a "protocolary role" in government.

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