Talk:Fernando Alonso/Archive 1

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Archive 1

Statistics

Could somebody check all the numbers from the statistics at the end of the article and the ones present in the F1 driver template? I know for sure the total number of points is 301 and the number of victories is 11, because you can count those easily from the data available at www.formula1.com. However, I'm not sure about the other numbers, and most F1 database websites are always a little bit behind in them. --212.59.212.111 22:15, 14 May 2006 (UTC)

At least, one of the Formula 1 databases from the "external links" section agrees with the current numbers. --156.35.192.4 15:00, 15 May 2006 (UTC)

Regarding the number of fastest laps, the data provided by f1db.com lacks the 2006 Malaysian Grand Prix fastest lap, which was set by Alonso. Please, in the future double-check facts and don't simply trust one external source blindly. The other two statistics pages listed in the article counted 6 fastest laps and one of them had detailed data about them, that was easily checked against formula1.com. --212.59.206.105 19:20, 23 June 2006 (UTC)

A worthy champion?

It might be a little messy as now, but I thought I'd start it and maybe you guys can improve on it text-wise. JackSparrow Ninja 01:39, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

The "worthy champion" section falls short of Wikipedia's WP:V, WP:NPOV and WP:OR policies. I've shifted it here to the talk page for copy-editing. --Muchness 01:48, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
"Despite the laurels, many question if Fernando Alonso is a worthy world champion, and didn't just have a lot of luck. Kimi Raikonnen was the faster in most of the races, yet was too often let down by the unreliability of his McLaren, and Michael Schumacher and Ferrari had the worse season in a decade.
More then any other driver, he complains if other drivers don't let him pass fast enough, giving him the nickname FerHANDo, referring to how he waves angrily at these drivers. A 2006 training incident with Robert Doornbos, in which he felt helt up and in return, slowed down, fully blocked and nearly drove Robert Doornbos off the track, is considered one of his weakest moments.
The 2006 Formula One season brought more critique to Fernando Alonso. After Michael Schumacher has won both the United States Grand Prix and the French Grand Prix with great power, he was once more accused of not being able to handle pressure, as he was nowhere to be found in the following German Grand Prix."
To go back in, it needs to be referenced (as does the rest of the article) and that means that you need to be reporting the views of significant commentators on the sport, not giving your own views. (That's not to say your own views are right or wrong, by the way, it's just that Wikipedia is not the place for them - see the guidelines Muchness points out above). 4u1e
The section is argumentative, POV and poorly written.
  • The title of the section itself should set off alarm bells that what follows might not be a shining example of Wikipedia NPOV!!
  • "Kimi Raikonnen was the faster in most of the races" ignores the fact that Renault were a lot quicker than McLaren at the very start of the season, which gave them a points cushion.
  • "More then any other driver, he complains if other drivers don't let him pass fast enough," Says who? Says the author, and that's the problem. Jenson Button likes to whine about blue flags!
  • "2006 training incident?" Interesting if true, but doesn't belong without a reference. "Helt up"?
  • Entire 2006 "critique" section is blatant POV! Who accused him of not being able to handle the pressure? I know some people did after Germany, but you have to name names and articles. He came under a lot of pressure last year remember. No mention made of Australian Grand Prix and Spanish Grand Prix which respected commentators such as Martin Brundle described as totally dominant performances by Alonso. "once more accused of not being able to handle pressure" Again, by who? Mark83 16:27, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

I also heard that Fernando Alonso won the title by first Schumi's engine at Suzuka then his puncture at Brazil, but do keep in mind from Bahrain to Canada it was total Renault Domination(except Imola and Nurburgring where schumacher reigned supreme) then at Indy it was Ferrari Domination till the kings engine blew, but the good start really attribute to the win From:RIPped

Pic

The picture in the article of Alonso is horrible. Messy hair, big sunglasses, summer clothes, not even posing. Could anyone find one more recent and a bit more, you know, champion-like? :) Schumi has one! Raystorm 20:50, 26 October 2006 (UTC)

What you want one with him and his beard RIPped

No. How about one on a podium celebrating a victory? Raystorm 17:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC)

"Accolades"

Is there a need for this? There is no comparable section at Michael Schumacher. Mark83 18:28, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

POV

By reading the article, I get an idea that Alonso is the best driver, any race that he could not win is not his fault. If specific examples are required, I can include them. --Cyktsui 01:13, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I agree there is a POV issue, as the comment above shows and my edits on 15th. I've taken another pass through and removed many "words to avoid", i.e. extraneous words that don't say anything extra but hint at POV. Having said that, I disagree with you Cyktsui that suggests that "any race that he could not win is not his fault". Could you give examples so we can discuss it. I've a few suggestions as to what you could be referring to, however I think they were in fact car malfunctions/team mistakes:
  • Monaco 2005 - Tyre wear. It is true that the rear tyres were badly worn. He had a queue behind him and it took the BMW-Williams quite a few laps to get passed.
  • Malaysia 2006 - Poor qualifying due to refuelling error. I remember at least one race where Pat Symonds said the team got the fuel wrong or the rig malfunctioned.
  • Germany 2006 - car uncompetitive. I distinctly remember Renault left their used tyres on display for all the world to see, they were furious with how they had blistered.
  • China 2006 - Poor tyre choice. Both Fisichella and Schumacher were over 5 seconds a lap quicker due to a poor tyre choice - I can't remember which choice it was (inters > slicks etc) but whatever it was it was the wrong time. Mark83 19:04, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I think about your rewrite, a few of them have been fixed. Thanks for that. However, there is still one that I can see (am I being too picky?):
  • At the Canadian Grand Prix Alonso made a mistake and crashed into the wall at the Villeneuve corner, damaging his suspension, after coming under pressure from the McLarens of Juan Pablo Montoya and Räikkönen. Sounds like McLarens were the cause of his crash. --Cyktsui 22:40, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
No can't agree, no matter how you read that sentence it was his mistake. What actually happened was he was in second, behind his team mate. He was faster than his team mate and was on the radio telling the team to get him out of the way. Meanwhile the McLarens were starting to breathe down his neck. The total pressure forced him into a mistake. The McLaren drivers were doing what any drivers would, trying to go as fast as they could. However, although I think you're reading too much into that, I have no problem with you changing it. Mark83 22:52, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
Sounds fine to me - he was unable to deal with the pressure of JPM and KR. Blnguyen (bananabucket) 00:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Pictures

I took Alonso's picture at Renault; feel free to post one at Mclaren.—The preceding unsigned comment was added by VincentG (talk • contribs) 19:56, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

I assume that you mean that you have removed the picture of Alonso? (unfortunatly 'taking his picture' means actually photographing him, if you're wondering why your message is unclear). I've put it back, on the basis that the article is about 'Alonso', not 'Alonso at McLaren'. Yes, a picture of him at McLaren would be better, but not I think better than having no picture at all. Until the racing season starts it's very unlikely that we'll get a free use picture of him in McLaren gear. Cheers. 4u1e 20:41, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
You noted at Kimi Raikkonen that pictures of KR in Ferrari gear are available now. That may be true (and will soon be true for Alonso at McLaren), but this being Wikipedia, it's always better to have a free use image. The current image is free use (or labelled as such, anyway :-S) - a fair use pic of Alonso in McLaren gear would not be an improvement from a Wikipedia point of view, given that the current picture is perfectly adequate. 4u1e 20:53, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

What do you mean a fair use? Is this a way of having the last word? I'm gonna find pictures for both of them and bye bye, these pictures are gone. You get it?—The preceding unsigned comment was added by VincentG (talk • contribs) 21:51, 10 January 2007 (UTC).

By the way, some profiles have no pictures, so it wouldn't hurt people either even if there's no pictures.

Vincent - first, you ,may not be aware, but the tone of what you have written is quite aggressive ('You get it?', for example). It's usually easier to discuss these things if we remain calm and neutral. My apologies if I did not achieve that in my earlier post.
As I hope I made clear in my previous post, if you can find a better picture then great - go for it! Having 'suitable illustrations' is one of the criteria for Featured Articles, and is strongly preferred for lower quality levels (Good Articles for example), although not compulsory. If we are looking to improve these articles to those standards, they should be moving towards meeting those criteria, which is why it is better, in my view, to keep the current pictures until we have better ones. After all in 10, 20 years time when Alonso has retired, no one will much care which team's overalls he is pictured in. :D There are more bad articles than good ones on Wikipedia, so saying that there are articles without pictures doesn't make it a good idea to take them out of this one.
You asked about fair use - You're right, I should have been clear about that. It's complicated, so here's a link to the page that explains Wikipedia's policy. Basically, we can't just use pictures we find on the net - they need to be 'free use', i.e. free of copyright restrictions. In some cases, under American law as I understand it, it is OK to use a copyrighted image if no other picture is available. That wouldn't be the case here, as there are free use pictures of Alonso available. I hope that's helpful, good luck in finding more up to date images. I sometimes find useful stuff at www.flickr.com, but you need to pay close attention to the copyright restrictions on each image. Cheers. 4u1e 23:03, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
Yes Vincent, the tone of your last posts is not helpful. Keep in mind that we all want to see the article be as good as it can be, but we have to achieve that within Wikipedia guidelines and copyright laws. Regarding fair use; We have to provide a "fair use" rationale for every fair use image. A fair use rationale solely based on our preference for seeing Alonso in McLaren overalls (or Raikkonen in Ferrari ones) would be vulnerable to challenge. In my opinion we should wait until a free image is available, and it will happen eventually given the growing popularity of flickr etc. In my experience the US GP yields good images from Wikipedians and McLaren/DaimlerChrysler will be keen to show Alonso and Hamilton off in a major market. Mark83 23:20, 10 January 2007 (UTC)

The McLaren "corporate" look has taken effect (the buzz cut): [1]. Please - this isn't an invitation for anyone to upload a copyrighted image. Mark83 13:44, 11 January 2007 (UTC)

Hmm - Ron doesn't control his drivers much, does he? The unlicensed picture of Alonso added by user:Turkish on 16 Jan will be automatically deleted tomorrow. To avoid having a blank gap, I'll reinstate the old one. Cheers. 4u1e 17:04, 22 January 2007 (UTC)

Fastest laps

There are different figures for the number of fastest laps up to race 3, 2007 (7 or 8?). The McLaren site has 7[2] but as DH85868993 points out, 8 seems to be the correct number. Start at Canada 2003; 2005 - Aust & EU; 2006 - Malaysia, San Marino, Britain, China and Japan. - Ctbolt 08:09, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

This is just an impression not a hard fact: it seems to me they take a while to update post-race data etc. Mark83 08:16, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

Repeated Vandalism

We seem to have a Schumacher fanboy repeatedly vandalising the page. Unfortunately no name to pin the attacks on, just IP addresses. Worth keeping an eye on. --Don Speekingleesh 19:19, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Citation how?

I found the citation for Paul Stoddart's phrase, but the page is password protected. http://www.f1i.com/content/view/4885/1/ Fortunately, it's on google cache: http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:www.f1i.com/content/view/4885/1/ on the very last paragraph of the interview. Would worth add it? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 193.144.43.179 (talk) 10:10, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

short controversy section

I think that for a good article we need to improve that section including more details to the incidents. I think it is just too short, may be made by an FA fanboy? -GillesV 18:55, 13 August 2007 (UTC)

I've two points to make.
  1. Please acquaint yourself with Wikipedia:Assume good faith.
  2. Please acquaint yourself with Wikipedia:Summary style - The descriptions could be expanded. However more than a substantial paragraph would be too much. Any detail over that amount should, in my opinion, be covered at the respective GP article(s). Mark83 21:51, 13 August 2007 (UTC)
Sorry, it may have sound like a lack of good faith. It is not a question of this article only, F1 articles about drivers are all a bit unbalanced. Well, with the inclusion of the Brazil affair I think it improved a bit. And don't worry about the comment, for example I think that Lewis Hamilton and Michael Schumacher are articles with the same style, all a bit unbalanced towards the qualities of the driver. --GillesV 01:12, 22 August 2007 (UTC)

Semi protection

There seems to be a flurry of vandalism now, and with the final race coming up its going to get worse. Should we try to seek edit protection to stop anons editing for the next week while things settle? Narson 15:22, 16 October 2007 (UTC)

Youngest GP winner

Why is not in the article?? Also, youngest driver to get a Pole Position.

You englishmen are biased. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 83.39.214.111 (talk) 17:29, 22 October 2007 (UTC)

You mean like this paragraph?

The Spaniard became the youngest driver to achieve a Formula One pole position at the 2003 Malaysian Grand Prix. Alonso had a 180mph crash at the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix, the result of missing the double yellow flags and Safety Car boards brought out by Mark Webber's earlier crash and colliding with the debris.[9] The race was red-flagged. He finished second at his home grand prix two races later, and became the youngest driver to win a Formula One race at the 2003 Hungarian Grand Prix. He finished the year sixth in the championship, with 55 points and four podiums.

Perhaps acctually reading the article before accusing an entire nation of being biased would be good? Narson 17:50, 22 October 2007 (UTC)
Not to mention that regular editors of F1 articles include Welsh, Northern Irish, Scottish, Australians and Americans. So the conspiracy is wider than you think. ;-) 4u1e (talk) 12:50, 17 November 2007 (UTC)
Ahh, they are simply obedient colonials ;) Narson (talk) 14:18, 17 November 2007 (UTC)

Trivia

He speaks italian perfectly, at Nurburgring he and Massa had an argument, and Corriere della Sera writes it was in italian...

But did he write the argument was in perfect Italian? Nil Einne (talk) 20:36, 7 December 2007 (UTC)

Controversies

Maybe we should include a separate section for controversies for Alonso.

I would just remove all of that stuff, period. All of the incidents cited are so minor that they're hardly worth mentioning. Put another way: something that drew very little media coverage and was soon forgotten about is not much of a controversy, is it?
I believe the whole section needs to be removed as well. All these "Controversies" are rather media opinion than proven fact. They were obviously written with a negative and vindictive attitude. I do not see any other Formula 1 driver having a whole section with every single rumor fueled by the press. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.126.166.147 (talk) 02:53, 26 February 2008 (UTC)

—The preceding unsigned comment was added by 64.230.54.150 (talk) 21:48, 22 April 2007 (UTC).

Eg The two incidents at Hungary race (the second one needs to be taken with care if to be included) and how he criticised formula 1 as 'no longer a sport' (all formula 1 drivers have to stood by the decisions) --Cyktsui 04:32, 1 November 2006 (UTC)

Why don't you start a section about it, and move all the relevant article sentences there? I don't think anybody would oppose that, as long as you keep the NPOV. Many other articles have a similar section. --212.59.207.5 09:46, 2 December 2006 (UTC)

<ANON>: I think that FA controversy section should start with his collision in the INTERLAGOS GP ignoring double yellow flag causing red flag and the stop of an interesting race. I cannot understand why the biased editors don't make a controversy section . It is sure they're the same of MS article ,what a BIASED editors.

Why don't you just get on with it instead of moaning about it, Ernham? Bretonbanquet 18:26, 13 January 2007 (UTC)

Whoever started the controversy section needs to understand a couple of things. It needs to be properly integrated with the rest of the article. Its title can't be all uppercase. It didn't have the same number of equal signs after and before. It should probably be outside the Formula 1 section, like the "accolades" section is. The bullet list you tried to do didn't even show up properly. The sentences were all in telegraphic style and you didn't remove the controversy discussion present in the rest of the article, so as to move all the controversy discussion to that section. Do it properly or don't do it. Avoid seedy edits, please. --212.59.206.106 10:48, 14 January 2007 (UTC)

Started it, but writing it slowly. --Cyktsui 00:40, 16 January 2007 (UTC)

I've removed the sentences stating that: "TV footage shows Alonso braking unusually hard during a left side corner. Robert Kubica was running behind him and braked too, while Michael Schumacher passed both cars on the right. It remains unclear if Schumacher missed the red flags or it was Alonso's fault." TV footage shos nothing of the sort - it's impossible to tell if Alonso braked or Kubica speeded up. In fact Autosport.com quoted Kubica saying Alonso was driving at a constant speed. I also don't think there's ever been any question of Schumacher not seeing the red flags - he had driven most of the lap while they were out - indeed I think he even passed Button's stranded Honda.--Don Speekingleesh 20:57, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

It should be clarified in some way. The controversy exists because some people say Alonso braked on purpose so as to force Schumacher to pass by. Alonso denies that. You said Kubica mentioned Alonso's speed was normal (a reference would be great). Also, Schumacher's quote might need to be modified because the paragraph looks dumb right now. Unfortunately, I don't have time for more edits and Google searches today. --212.59.212.115 23:10, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

Just a thought. I think the incident from Turkey 2006 is worth mentioning. It happened under similar dubious circumstances as in the previous GP (Hungary) and with the same driver (Doornbos)! That was a very controversial move. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kwVvhaBHoPg I did try to write about, but apparently it wasn't found to be controversial enough. I think it was. —Preceding unsigned comment added by SchumiChamp (talk • contribs)

The point is that such a one-sided account needs a source. -- Ian Dalziel 15:27, 10 August 2007 (UTC)

I was just looking at this line from the controversies section:

After a separate incident from the same race, when Michael Schumacher was asked whether he thought Alonso slowed down on purpose so that Schumacher had to pass him under red flags in practice Schumacher replied, "You said that, I didn't."

If anyone watches the review DVD of the 2006 season from the FIA, you hear a clearly audible pit radio broadcast which was not initially made available to viewers, where Renault informed Alonso that a red flag had been thrown and told him to slow down and come back into the pit. Whilst the slowing down of Alonso may well have caught Schumi by surprise, personally I believe that this pit radio message proves that Alonso did not deliberately slow down to wrong foot schumacher, he was simply following a command from his team. 82.34.60.76 (talk) 23:17, 26 April 2008 (UTC)

Alonso knew pit strategies?

"According to the "spygate" related email exchanges between Alonso and de la Rosa, it was clear that Alonso knew about Ferrari's pit strategies in the Australian Grand Prix and Bahrain Grand Prix." maybe it would be better to say that McLaren knew. Loosmark (talk) 00:55, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

If two people are discussing it in an e-mail, it shows those two knew....if we have sources saying McLaren as a whole knew, that would be fine. Narson (talk) 01:36, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

(Adnan81185 (talk) 08:48, 11 July 2008 (UTC)) I Second this comment. As It was Nigel, Pedro and Alonso. ALONSO Being the main driver who tested majorly, was bound to be the 1st to be informed about this... So its wrong to blame him. No reports ever suggested that Alonso wanted to know the strategies!

Highest Paid Driver

(Adnan81185 (talk) 19:24, 10 July 2008 (UTC))ACCORDING TO Many reports. Fernando Alonso IS THE HIGHEST PAID DRIVER AFTER HIS RETURN to renault. I Think this should be added to his section where we have the "RETURN To RENAULT" section Fernando Also has the highest number of sponsers riding on him the newest being Satander who are swtiching to Ferrari Amidst reports of taking Alonso with them. - http://www.homeofsport.com/f1/news/item.aspx?id=22487 - http://www.google.co.in/search?hl=en&q=fernando+alonso+highest+paid+driver&btnG=Google+Search&meta= - http://racing.indiatimes.com/Renault_make_Alonso_highest_paid_F1_driver/articleshow/2614931.cms -


Here are 2 links to support my view. And these should be added to the return to renault section :)

Thanks :)

I havn't had time to look through the net, but surely Raikkonen is the bearer of the title! He is on a huge salary at Ferrari having filled the shoes of Schumacher. However I admit that Briatore and Renault may have gone to extreeme lengths with the checkbook to make sure Alonso would be coming back... A Prodigy (t•c•m) 18:54, 10 August 2008 (UTC)

Asturian language

Does Alonso speak the Asturian language? Nil Einne 10:55, 21 April 2007 (UTC)

Yes, he speaks spanish —Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.85.122.145 (talk) 19:16, 18 October 2008 (UTC)
This guy grows sillier everyday. He doesn´t have the brains to learn our language nor English.--Xareu bs 20:08, 22 June 2007 (UTC)


hola, nil ennie: Alonso cannot speak Asturian language...: you know , this language doesnt exist, so it cannot be talked by normal people... is talked just by a few freaks that live in their own (false) reality. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 88.24.192.11 (talk) 21:12, 4 November 2007 (UTC)

Well according to the linked article "and is an optional language at schools, being widely studied". And "Total speakers: 450,000". I suggest you correct the clearly erroneous (based on your claims) article Nil Einne (talk) 20:38, 7 December 2007 (UTC)


"The Asturian language" doesn't exist!, It's just a dialect. To talk about "Asturian language" is nonsense, this is suppose to be an encyclopedia, don't forget it. We could add cockney as a language too... --Guendo (talk) 14:35, 23 December 2007 (UTC)

Does it really matter? this is an article about a racing driver, for the 'language or dialect' controversy there are, I'm sure, other sites80.6.60.75 (talk) 09:26, 24 March 2008 (UTC)

Records Section

I propose we trim it down a fair amount, records he never held should be removed at the very least. Perhaps wider discussion should take place at WP:F1 on whether such sections are the equivalent of trivia. --Narson ~ Talk • 21:40, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

Great bio link

This USA Today biography might make for good fodder for refs: http://www.usatoday.com/sports/motor/formula1/2005-06-14-alonso-cover_x.htm -- Guroadrunner (talk) 08:42, 1 March 2009 (UTC)

Residence

Did Alonso not leave England for Switzerland when he signed for McLaren? He may have kept his Oxford home but is that really his main residence still, or is this just a hang over from those pre-McLaren days? 86.17.211.148 (talk) —Preceding undated comment added 02:16, 12 March 2009 (UTC).

Controversies section

ok can somebody please explain me why the Alonso article has controversies section while for example the Hamilton article doesn't have one? thank you. Loosmark (talk) 19:30, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Someone has added a controversies section to the Alonso article but not to the Hamilton article. HTH. -- Ian Dalziel (talk) 22:35, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Best way to fix this would either be to delete the controversies section from the Alonso article (not recommended), or add one to the Hamilton article (recommended). Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:40, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Quite. That's what I was hoping to imply. -- Ian Dalziel (talk) 22:43, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I think you did so most effectively. These are excellent answers to this question. Bretonbanquet (talk) 22:50, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
I think the best option would be to integrate the section into the main part of his career. Alonso has been involved in various controversies during his time in F1, but it's not as if his career is defined by any of them.--Diniz(talk) 23:51, 2 April 2009 (UTC)

Has won most of the active Grands Prix

Where is the most appropriate place to add the fact that Fernando has won 14 of the 19 races on the current calendar? He has won all active Grands Prix except for Turkey, Belguim, Korea, Brazil, and Abu Dhabi.

That's after only 9 years spent in F1. 97.125.102.127 (talk) 16:40, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's trivia, is it that imporant? --Falcadore (talk) 20:22, 18 April 2010 (UTC)

2010 German Grand Prix

We only need a paragraph with the basic facts about this, as we are not Autosport. Neither can we infer sarcasm from remarks made unless it is from the source. To do so is synthesis and OR and may have BLP implications. Britmax (talk) 17:38, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Agreed, plus the quote that keeps getting reinserted is inaccurate. A whole part of the sentence is missing, changing the entire meaning of what Smedley said. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:41, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Yes, the explanation was referring to Smedley's use of the word "magnanimous" and nothing else. Britmax (talk) 17:46, 25 July 2010 (UTC)
Exactly. I've left a note on the other editor's talk page to join the discussion if he wants. Bretonbanquet (talk) 17:49, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

The quoted version of Smedley's original radio message is incorrect; he said, "OK. So. Fernando is faster (pause) than (pause) you. Can you confirm you understood that message?"86.179.9.90 (talk) 19:07, 25 July 2010 (UTC)

Nicknames

I've removed the sentence which indicates that his nickname is the "Blue Fenix". Google turns up only one hit for "blue phoenix" "fernando alonso" and zero for "blue fenix" "fernando alonso". Pburka 3 July 2005 17:36 (UTC)

Recently, two nicknames have been deleted from the article. I won't restore them, but I can give you more information about them in the hope they will be included in the article. They are "Magic Alonso" and "El Nano". Both are true nicknames for Fernando Alonso. Melendi is a musician famous in Spain, also Asturian like Alonso is, and composed a song titled "Magic Alonso" that reflects both nicknames. You can easily find its lyrics if you google for "magic alonso melendi". The title of the song reflects one name, and you can read and translate the lyrics to see that he also calls him "El Nano". "El Nano" comes from "El Enano" (i.e. "The Midget") and it's probably a fan-originated familiar nickname that simply refers to his height, because you can't bee too tall to be an F1 driver, as you know. Tall drivers have problems fitting in the cockpits. It's not meant to be insulting. "Magic Alonso", from what I've heard in the Spanish TV, comes from the fact that Alonso likes magic and can play some card tricks. He's supposed to have performed some of them in front of a group of journalists (but I'm having serious problems finding a reference for this) in private, and the nickname "Magic Alonso" stems from that. Not that he's so good that he does magic with his car or anything. It's about the card tricks. --212.59.223.235 11:26, 12 August 2006 (UTC)

Well, I don't see any problem in include the nickname 'El Nano'. Googles turns up near 300k hits for it, obviously almost everybody know that nick, and related it with Alonso, and Fernando recognize it. In the Spanish and Asturian pages include that nick, so it's seem ridiculous that it don't appear in the English one. Nickname 'Magic' is more controversly, because only a TV commentator use it, and cause the reference to Senna. Greetings. --Wikizin 13:18, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
I have deleted the explanation to the nickname "El nano" which was wrong. "Nano" is just a commmon abreviation or nickname for "Fernando". Googling "fernando alias nano" gives a lot of results of fernandos nicknamed nano. Even if the midget theory was true the explanation still would be wrong because "enano" is a spanish word not a "asturian" one. I don´t know if asturian exists but if it does I guess the correct term would be "enanu" or "nanu".
Right, I have corrected it. --80.38.79.176 2:16, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I don´t understand your correction and I have deleted it. "Nano" is just a nickname for the name "Fernando" (perhaps this could be added in brackets). It is a common nickname and doesn´t come from "Nanu". The "midget theory" is irrelevant. I explained myself badly in my previous post.
It comes from 'midget' yes, Nanu is only the traslation to Asturian. --80.38.79.176 21:21, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
I have changed the nickname again from "el nanu" to "el nano". As I explained early it is a common nickname for fernando. He is a spanish star not just a asturian one and the nickname used should be the more common one which is "el nano". I have never heard "el nanu" and I am Asturian. So is the spanish f1 commentator and calls him "el nano". The famous song about him by Melendi (also an Asturian) also uses "el nano".
And last but not least: fernando alonso+"el nanu"=231 hits in Google, fernando alonso+"el nano"=15000 hits.
So if you feel you must mention "el nanu" at all just put it in brackets (clarifying is a translation to asturian).
Wow my change lasted 5 mins, are you on post defending the honor of the Asturian language? Well since you did exactly what I suggested I won´t complain.
I didn't do it because you suggested anything, i only put it in the way that it was before somebody changed it. By the way, learn to sign your messages. --80.38.79.176 3:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
I hope it's all well and good now...  ;-) --Mmaese 08:45, 17 September 2007 (UTC)


According to this website Fernando Alonso's nickname is Fer(as per his own admission), I'm not sure if this is relevant to the discussion so I will leave it up to those who regularly updates his profile to decide whether to include it or not. Fcf1 10:14, 13 October 2006 (UTC)

Nano means "little", like "pequeño" or "pequeñajo". It was his nickname in the hith chool. Alonso told this history in a tv program "LA noche de Fuente y Cia". The nickname for the name Fernando is "Fer" o "Nando". 13:22 09 July 2007

Some idiot changed the article saying that "nano" means "he who complains". I'm Spanish and I've corrected it. "Nano" comes from "enano" which is a friendly way to say "little person". - 17 January 2010 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Onewhogoes (talk • contribs) 10:36, 17 January 2010 (UTC)

In the past few weeks I've noticed "Teflonso" gaining popularity in the English-speaking press. It's tongue-in-cheek but you have to admit, nothing ever sticks to him! Kennycarwash (talk) 13:41, 3 August 2010 (UTC)

Edit request from Procartoon, 25 September 2010

{{edit semi-protected}} Please change the number of pole positions for Fernando Alonso for 2010 from 1 to 2. He gained pole position in the Singapore Grand Prix.

Procartoon (talk) 20:05, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

checkY Done. Cs-wolves(talk) 20:16, 25 September 2010 (UTC)

pronunciation

does "Fernando Alonso" word have a pronunciation in Spanish or Asturian language? F1fans (talk) 02:56, 29 April 2011 (UTC)

Controversies section

As much as I enjoy Alonso bashing I have to say the controversies section is totally out of proportion. It needs removing and the content needs to be edited down and added to the other sections. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.92.119.217 (talk) 09:21, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

Then remove it. --Falcadore (talk) 12:22, 6 May 2011 (UTC)

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2009 Italian Grand Prix

Alonso finsihed the 2009 Italian Grand Prix in fifth place-after Lewis Hamilton crashed in the final lap-not sixth as mentioned in "2009" section. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.234.200.141 (talk) 09:38, 30 November 2011 (UTC)

Fixed. Thanks. Note that you are welcome to make such corrections yourself - if you make a mistake, someone else will correct it. DH85868993 (talk) 01:25, 1 December 2011 (UTC)

Marriage

Alonso, as the article mentions, was born in the province of Asturias, in the north of Spain. In this province, the most popular newspaper is "La Nueva España", read everyday by hundreds of thousands of asturians. It is a serious, general information newspaper which, of course, has a sports section. It's the newspaper that recently published that Alonso had, indeed, married Raquel del Rosario despite the driver having denied that information.

I saw someone had removed that bit from the article in the lack of a citation, so I decided to scan one page that was published on Sunday April 8, 2007, precisely regarding this topic. It contains a piece of news that takes almost a full page. Sorry if parts of the image don't fit completely, but I had to scan four pieces and put them together because the newspaper page size is larger than an A4 sheet.

For those that don't speak Spanish, it talks about the driver vetting the newspaper from the daily press conferences organized by McLaren (this is explained in the text above the news header). The reason for vetting the newspaper is explained several times, most notably in the second point of the subheader: "Nos habéis echado encima a las revistas del corazón" ("You've thrown the yellow press on us"). They explain that Alonso didn't like the newspaper giving information about his private life and his wedding.

The newspaper insists several times that he has been married. For example, the image caption reads "Fernando Alonso, junto a su esposa, Raquel del Rosario" ("Fernando Alonso, next to his wife, Raquel del Rosario"). The details about his secret wedding can be found at the end of the third paragraph, and in the fourth paragraph ("Fue el... de los contrayentes"). It explains that another Spanish newspaper (Diario de Navarra) published the initial information on November 22, 2006. This information was then completed and published by several more newspapers, TV and radio channels, including La Nueva España. The wedding would have taken place on November 17, 2006. One week later they traveled to the Maldives with an intimate circle of friends and relatives to celebrate the event. The driver denied this information several times, but La Nueva España was able to confirm, on February 20, 2007, that the wedding had taken place in private, in his parent's house in Limanes, in the presence of half a dozen relatives. It had been officiated by a friend priest from Córdoba (south of Spain). These special wedding circumstances (a catholic wedding normally takes place inside a temple) had been approved by the priest resposible of the Limanes church due to the driver's popularity. This priest was the person that confirmed the information, according to the newspaper.

This information can also be found in the digital edition of the newspaper, under the domain name www.lne.es.

  • Image: [3]
  • Digital edition: [4]
  • February information: [5]

--212.59.206.88 22:29, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

UPDATE: On 10th December 2007, the official Formula 1 website hosted pictures of the FIA award ceremony to which a picture of Alonso and his 'girlfriend' was labelled 'Alonso and wife'. Not too sure how to do it, but someone could reference that if uncertain.

Link: http://www.formula1.com/gallery/other/2007/202.html

It's the final picture in the gallery (cannot create direct link).

194.66.200.1 (talk) 10:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)MattL194.66.200.1 (talk) 10:49, 10 December 2007 (UTC)


UPDATE 2: In 20th December 2011, Fernando (and Raquel too) posts on his (and her) official website a comunicate, saying they broke up his marriage: http://www.fernandoalonso.com/es/noticias/ver/alonso_y_raquel_rompen_su_matrimonio/2553

Sorry if my English is not good... — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.123.121.173 (talk) 15:47, 20 December 2011 (UTC)

Countback

I found an unfamiliar term in the following passage from the end of section 3.5.1:

He also scored his fifth fastest lap of the year, enough to give him the 2010 DHL Fastest Lap Award after a countback with Lewis Hamilton.

My initial impression of countback was that of an ad hoc term selected out of laziness or as a consequence of Stateside education; as it turns out, it is a perfectly suitable sporting term for a tiebreak process such as that employed in this case.

I mention this only because this internal link is of greater relevance than the one that would result from double-bracketing the term in question.

--Patronanejo (talk) 05:32, 13 June 2012 (UTC)

French speaker?

The claim that Alonso speaks French has been on this article for a while and I have tried to search for a source. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any (either in English or in Spanish), except one from 2005 which bluntly stated that Alonso was could not speak French. [6]

Alonso, que vive en Enstone, habla italiano con ellos. Con el resto, inglés. El ovetense no habla francés. [Alonso, who lives in Enstone, speaks with them in Italian. With the others, in English. The ovetense doesn't speak French]

I added this reference to the article, but removed the claim about about him being a French-language speaker. If I am incorrect, feel free to add the information back, but please add a mainstream source. universalcosmos | talk 02:19, 25 October 2010 (UTC)

Here is the source where Alonso speaks French. [7] ScF | talk —Preceding undated comment added 19:07, 22 July 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 23 August 2012

Citation requested and provided herein.

Current text: "He also became the first driver in history to finish first or second in the first nine races of the season, a record equalled by Sebastian Vettel in 2011.[citation needed]"

Citation: http://www.formula1.com/results/driver/2011/822.html

Regards,

David. 212.187.122.14 (talk) 15:01, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Not done: The source has to back up the statement explicitly. You've just linked to a results sheet. A boat that can float! (watch me float!) 13:12, 30 August 2012 (UTC)

Bias

I was about to remove the last 5 paragraphs of the section "2005" and replace it with the paragraph by Mark83 in his last edit. Those paragraphs look more than a little biased, and what's more, some facts are inaccurate, as well. But then, looking at other parts of the article, I find that it has been modified in other places too, recently, and the writing style makes it look like something written by a fan. So I haven't deleted the last paragraphs as I was about to, and am instead awaiting a discussion on the whole article.

Below are factual inaccuracies (apart from the general bias) I've noticed in the last 5 paragraphs of the section "2005."

"In comparison to Räikkönen, Alonso had made significantly fewer driving errors than his rival (just one in Canada) and has been a model of consistency finishing in the top three more times than Räikkönen."

My memory isn't the best, but of the races in just the latter half, I distinctly remember Alonso making mistakes in qualifying in Hungary and Hockenheim. Raikkonen wasn't prone to many mistakes, either.

"Alonso was not only the fastest driver in qualifying but also matched the McLaren MP4-20’s speed, running with relatively the same amounts of fuel on board."

This is just speculation, isn't it? Since the Safety Car came on before the frontrunners had made their pitstops (not to forget Montoya retiring due to the drain cover incident), there is no way of verifying such a claim, other than believing press releases by the teams concerned, which are not exactly models of unbiased reporting - especially given that throughout most of the season, McLaren were shown to be qualifying with much more fuel on board than Renault.

Great Red Spot

Couldn't agree more, this page has changed a lot since I've last contributed. Some statements, while true, are surrounding by gushing praise that doesn't even come close to NPOV. I'll try and sort it out. Mark83 15:49, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
The 2005 section is much better now, but the "Early Years" and "Formula One years" section could do with a lot of improvements. They're still in a adulatory vein. Eg:-ddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddd
"... someone who actually remembers that it's still a sport"
"Alonso is one of the few drivers capable of being on the pace every lap of every race and having a rare gift for driving around major problems while losing minimal lap time." (I remember reading this in some article, but still it's presented here as fact, when it's merely the opinion of that writer.) Great Red Spot


I agree. The article comes across as a work of an Alonso fan and is VERY biased. Just one example: the Lauda quote makes Alonso look like being perfect (no driver is!). Lauda may have said it or not, but it's still just an opinion - probably being told when Alonso became a WDC, thus being naturally full of praise. (The other day Lauda will say the same of Raikkonen or Schumacher.) You can argue that we can include quotes on drivers in an article like that, but if we only use positive and praising quotes that can make the article biased. So I suggest the removal of the Lauda quote. 80.98.174.44 16:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)


The comment about Alonso being "comprehensively ... out raced by Trulli in 2004" isn't backed up by the facts. Taking the first 10 races Alonso finished ahead of Trulli three times, Trulli finished ahead of Alonso four times and one or both failed to finish in the other races. 4-3 is hardly a comprehensive result. (Though I don't think anyone can argue about the same comment on qualifying).


Someone added a comment suggesting the Renault F1 team was disappointed with Alonso's performance in the 2003 season. I'm pretty sure that's out of context, because he finished with 55 points and his team mate Trulli scored only 33 (so Alonso scored 66% more points). I suspect the team stated they had predicted a superior result in general, so I'm afraid this needs a citation or clarification, or it should be removed. What do you think? --212.59.223.189 01:45, 27 June 2006 (UTC)

If it's uncited, then in accordance with the rules regarding biographies for living people it should be removed. However, I feel we need to do something about the 2002/3 section: at the moment, it sounds too much like Alonso had an ideal debut season - first pole, first podium, first win et cetera. There's no mention of his race-stopping accident at the 2003 Brazilian Grand Prix, for example, despite the nature of the collision. If we are aiming for a more NPOV article, some mention of the accident is warranted, albeit in a factual nature.
As for 2004, it should be noted that the results show a 41 to 26 points tally in favour of Jarno up to and including the US Grand Prix (as there were 18 races in 2004, this was effectively the halfway point). Even if we include the French Grand Prix, it's still 46 to 34. So on that basis, in the earlier half of the season Trulli did outrace Alonso - but as the article already says, that ratio did change as the season progressed. On that basis I'd say keep that section as it is. Davery06 19:20, 15 August 2006 (UTC)

I've made some stylistic changes to the 2002-3 section (you don't win a pole position, you claim it or achieve it, for example) as well as giving the section a bit more weight and mentioning the Brazil crash. If anyone objects, feel free to revert it - just thought this section in particular needs more work. Davery06 13:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

I think mentioning the crash is important, and it goes beyond NPOV. The fact is it was the worst accident Alonso has been involved in, and he was taken out of the track on a stretcher, so that is an important fact that needs to be mentioned in his biography article, IMHO. --212.59.206.25 22:05, 20 August 2006 (UTC)

In the last days someone has been adding biased comments to the article. It's not that hard to be neutral, really. Just tell what happened, in the apropiate place and using apropiate words. I'll explain why I reverted the changes. About the comments on Schumacher in the second paragraph, the way of saying "however the Spaniard has a disliking for the German champion and after losing to Schumacher at the 2006 Italian Grand Prix he called the seven time World Champion 'the most unsporting driver in F1'" is out of place here. There is a context for the Italian Grand Prix, with a rain of critics from Renault to Ferrari after the controversial Alonso-blocking-Massa incident. The context is already there, and it's a much better place to add the sentence than to say it in the second paragraph. And, furthermore, saying "after losing to Schumacher" is completely out of place too, for several reasons. First, he didn't "lose to Schumacher". He retired after his engine broke. And he would have finished third anyway, not second to Schumacher. Second, and more important, if you say it that way it sounds like Alonso was pissed because he couldn't win and considered that Schumacher cheated during the race. This was not the situation. Third, you could have provided a reference for the quote, which is real as you can read if you search in Google.

About the comments on the 2006 Chinese Grand Prix, they suffer the same problem. The claim is that Schumacher passed Alonso in the second stint due to Schumacher's "superior driving skill". This is out of place again. I know it can be fun to discuss about Schumacher, Alonso or Raikkonen and who is the better driver. Proponents of Schumacher can simply point at the numbers: more championships, fastest laps, pole positions, etc. There's no need to add bias to the article by saying how Schumacher is superior because he passed Alonso in that case. This is not true. There's no denying that Alonso may have made a mistake defending his position there, of course. But such a thing proves nothing and the comment's only purpose is to add a bias in favour of Schumacher. Like if I said that Alonso passed Ralf Schumacher in Japan due to his superior driving skills. Simply not true, accurate or neutral. That would only favour Alonso, adding nothing to the article. So I think one should leave out those biased comments for a discussion forum, not for the Wikipedia article.

Finally, I think the one who added these comments was the same one adding similar ones some days ago and adding a prediction for the future about how Schumacher was set to win the 2006 driver's championship. I removed it because I didn't see any point in adding such a comment. As you see after Japan, things have changed. I was proven right. And even if Schumacher had won in Japan, predictions are not needed. Just like I said before, it's not hard to simply tell what happened in an accurate and neutral way. You only need to try. It's very easy. --212.59.223.49 11:43, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

ABOUT THE BIAS:

i find quite funny, only fernando alonso page features a controversy section on its page,controversial or not, i dont think off track matters should be reflected on a page like this, people just come to this pages to see the driver achievents,early life and maybe some curiosities,and not the load of crap the media usually creates,and no one really can contrast.

in the other hand his f1 records are not independently refelected anywhere on the page unlike current drivers page (see raikonnen or hamilton pages)

beign most of them quite important and final for f1 history.

maybe alonso records are not as interesting as the fact of hamilton beign the driver with most consecutive podiums for a British driver: (9)..in this case,and tied up with someone else !! [clark, at least a worthy champion].

so dont talk about bias, as this page looks like was written from a hamilton fan and start thinking on editing every driver personal page the same politically correct way.

this is what i expect to read on a driver personal page an only this not a load of gossips

fernando alonso

102 gp (101 starts)

19 victories

17+1(void due stewads sanction) pole positions

47 podiums

476 championship points

11 fastest laps


1994: Spanish karting. Champion

1996: Spanish karting. Champion Rank 3th world wide karting.

1997: Spanish Karting . Champion

1998: European karting,2th.

1999: Fórmula Nissan. Champion

2000: FIA F3000 Champion (Astromega).

2001: Fórmula 1 (Minardi).

2002: Renault tester.

2003: Fórmula 1 (Renault), 6th 55 points.

2004: Fórmula 1 (Renault), 4th 59 points.

2005: Fórmula 1 (Renault), champion

2006: Fórmula 1 (Renault), champion

6 ABSOLUTE youth records (ONGOING)

youngest drive to lead one GP

youngest winner of a GP

youngest pole position winner

youngest driver to score a podium position

youngest world champion

youngest double world champion

18 appearances on the globaL top ten driver records

11th on the fia all time ranking,1 victory Behind mika hakkinen (10th)

biased commentary,unfair comparisons with other drivers personal opinions,media reactions,and all sorts of crap should be avoided. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.97.138.20 (talk) 20:26, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

A DISSAPOINTED READER.

Firstly, some of what you mention is already in the article, and secondly, how about bitching a bit less and editing the thing yourself? Bretonbanquet 21:18, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Well aint no point in editing the thing myself, when someone will come after to erase it. http://www.topix.net/forum/formula1/fernando-alonso/TGTA4KQIII2VRD857 —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.97.138.20 (talk) 22:36, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Well, if you made what you wanted to add encyclopedic and sourced it (No, some web form is not a reliable source) then it would have a chance at staying. Narson 13:55, 17 September 2007 (UTC)
Exactly. I think this article does need a records section, there's clearly stuff that is relevant that isn't already included. But it needs to be wikified and to fit in neatly with the rest of the article. Bretonbanquet 02:53, 18 September 2007 (UTC)

thats the point. indeed much of alonso records are stated over the article but not all,and its not the same having them spread over the article than reading them at a glance.

The avobe listing is contrasted and properly checked as its source is wikipedia records page,so i cant go wrong.

I woudnt mind to spare the time to keep that section updated myself, but only if is keeped as an independant section. as the lewis hamilton or kimi raikonen does. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.97.138.20 (talk) 09:35, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Wikipedia is not a reliable source. Narson 13:32, 19 September 2007 (UTC)


Well,might say, its good to come back after a year and find out things have been corrected for better..AT LAST


Anyhow, did some corrections at the records section, the way it was redacted mislead the readers, now you can see clearly, what he achieved in its day, who succeeded him, and when it did happen. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 213.97.79.58 (talk) 21:18, 30 January 2009 (UTC)

KOJI.(the dissapointed reader)

Again,highlighting the bad and hiding the good..for instance

No mention to his very first Grand CHELEM in singapore, something no driver has achieved since hungary 2004 in the days of abusive dominance by schumacher,something its positively reflected in the records section,

or the fact of beign the first champion driver ever(and there are 4 champions in active this season), under the current point sistem, to reach the 200 points mark with his podium in japan.

Some would argue, and I would agree, that having a whole section related to Alonso controversies is biased. There doesn't seem to be the same scrutiny with other drivers. Some parts of this piece look like they have been written by Anthony Hamilton. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 87.21.128.69 (talk) 00:10, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

First to score 200 points is a very minor, even trivial achievement. --Falcadore (talk) 01:42, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Edit request on 2 December 2012

Fernando Alosno car #3 for 2013 as per FIA entry list http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/news/files/2013%20FIA%20Formula%20One%20World%20Championship%20Entry%20List%2030.11.2012.pdf 95.148.62.213 (talk) 01:48, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

 Question: I was just about to make this edit for you, when something struck me. May be a silly question, but the table in the linked pdf is called:"2013 FIA Formula One World Championship Entry List" and the column is headed "No.". Is it an entry number, or a car number, or are they the same thing, and how do we know? ...Or am I just displaying my ignorance?

Here's the formatted code I was about to save in case someone else does this in the meantime, to save them a bit of effort:

| 2013 Car number = 3 <ref>{{cite web|title=2013 FIA Formula One World Championship Entry List|publisher=www.fia.com|accessdate=2 December 2012|url=http://www.fia.com/sites/default/files/news/files/2013%20FIA%20Formula%20One%20World%20Championship%20Entry%20List%2030.11.2012.pdf}}</ref>

Begoon talk 11:47, 2 December 2012 (UTC)

Now done by another editor - my apologies if I was too careful and reticent here, and thank you for making the request. Begoon talk 01:40, 3 December 2012 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 April 2014

He is considered the strongest racing driver of the day 93.58.108.196 (talk) 23:25, 23 April 2014 (UTC)

Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 01:32, 24 April 2014 (UTC)

Edit Request for "Helmet" Section - 19th May 2014

I'd like to suggest replacing the text in the Helmet section:
"Besides the rear helmet, Alonso also attached two pictures of a spade, ace and heart symbol signifying his status as a double world champion."
 with:
"Also on the rear of the helmet, Alonso attached the images of two playing cards signifying his status as a double world champion - the ace of clubs ('05) and the ace of hearts ('06)."
 The current sentence is confusing and incorrect according to the images linked to in reference [93] http://www.f1wolf.com/2008/01/fernando-alonso-and-his-new-2008-helmet.html

:: craigat :: (talk) 19:24, 19 May 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 19 September 2014

please edit the controversies section or delete it. it has been in violation of wiki rules since november 2013. thank you

86.40.99.152 (talk) 20:28, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

 Not done as every part of that section is referenced - IMHO the "mistake" is the warning template, which I believe should be removed. However, as that is just my PoV I'm willing to hear others opinions, - Arjayay (talk) 20:50, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 11 December 2014

Alonso has scored 1767 points in his career compared to 887 for his team mates cumulatively. This means he has scored 50.19% more points than his team-mates throughout his career. 194.168.205.194 (talk) 15:24, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

 Not done: please check your math. G S Palmer (talk • contribs) 15:35, 11 December 2014 (UTC)

Retrograde amnesia?

I thought the retrograde amnesia stories were unsubstantiated yellow press fair. The current citation to Sky Sport is reporting on a claim made by another news-paper. Does this really fulfill Wikipedia's source criteria? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.23.126.238 (talk) 13:11, 18 March 2015 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 6 September 2015

The reference to Hagaware should probably be to Hagakure , and could link to that page https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hagakure AshSIreland (talk) 08:11, 6 September 2015 (UTC) AshSIreland AshSIreland (talk) 08:11, 6 September 2015 (UTC)

Done Inomyabcs (talk) 01:18, 7 September 2015 (UTC)

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"widely regarded as one of the greatest Formula One drivers"

A few problems with this line: Alonso is widely regarded as one of the greatest Formula One drivers to have competed in the sport.

  • The first reference doesn't say anything about "greatest to have competed in the sport". Murray Walker said he is the best driver (at this moment).
             Benson, Andrew (7 July 2012). "Alonso takes pole at soaking wet Silverstone". BBC Sport. BBC. Retrieved 7 July 2012.
  • Need I explain why his own team boss might not be the most objective source to quote (apart that there is nothing stating he is one of the best ever)?
            &nbsp"'Fernando Alonso best driver in the world'". Crash.net. Crash Media Group. 6 June 2012. Retrieved 7 July 2012.
  • Again no word on "one of the greatest". Actually, no 'best' or 'greatest' words at all in this reference.
             Allen, James (28 May 2012). "How is Alonso leading the championship with that car and what happens next?". James Allen on F1. James Allen. Retrieved 7 July 2012.
No argument from me. I don't think these subjective comments are encyclopaedic - even for the likes of Fangio or Nuvolari. The problem is that as often as you take it out, some fan is going to put it back in. "Widely regarded in Spain", perhaps... :-) Ian Dalziel (talk) 08:18, 14 October 2012 (UTC)

I think the number of sources that regard Fernando Alonso as amongst the finest F1 drivers around and even in history are too many to list. It gets mentioned by everyone from commentators, to team principles, to F1 pundits, and on and on and on. "He is widely regarded as..." is fair, although "He IS" would be a problem. It's a perfectly fair bit of information to post about him on an encyclopedia article since it is part of what one needs to see if they are to be introduced to who this man is and what his status within his sport is. What kind of source would be acceptable here? Perhaps an article in a major news source by the likes of Brundle or Coulthard or Lewis Hamilton or something stating that he is widely regarded as amongst the finest? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.206.90.160 (talk) 00:54, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Delete Alonsomania?

I know a discussion was held about deleting this as an article. It was then merged into the main article on Alonso.

Reading the section, I just can't get my head around how it is even there. I'm struggling to see how it is in any way encyclopaedic. Surely this should be deleted? Sue De Nimes (talk) 10:16, 7 November 2015 (UTC)

I've been thinking about this a little bit further. I really don't think that this is even "a thing". Google search brings up very little when searching for "Alonsomania". I'm sceptical about this being a "fan phenomenon" either. A phenomenon in this case refers to something remarkable. I struggle to see what is remarkable about a F1 racing driver having having a lot of support in his home GP. This actually seems par for the course for any popular F1 star. What would make this a phenomenon might be if this was evident at other GPs rather than just Spanish based GPs.

This picture for example shows a large number of British flags out in support of Lewis Hamilton at this years British GP.

http://www.grandprix.com/jpeg/jiri/pbri15/sun/fans1-lg.jpg

Sue De Nimes (talk) 23:18, 8 November 2015 (UTC)

There has been no objection to this, so I am going to delete. Sue De Nimes (talk) 10:29, 20 November 2015 (UTC)

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Poland Syndrome

Is it not worth mentioning somewhere in the article that Alonso has Poland Syndrome. Although not the most debilitating of conditions to have, it is a noteworthy thing. Perhaps it should be part of a trivia section or in personal info. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 173.206.90.160 (talk) 00:57, 3 November 2015 (UTC)

Is it covered in reliable sources? If it is, then maybe it could be added. Joseph2302 (talk) 21:58, 31 March 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 7 September 2016

I think that the Controversies subject not reflect a neutral point of view which should be if it is on Wiki. for example "Crashgate" Alonso was not aware of this so why is this mentioned in his Wiki as Controversies ? Lobo151 (talk) 09:57, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Not done: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit semi-protected}} template. EvergreenFir (talk) 17:41, 7 September 2016 (UTC)

Post it twice by incident.

Alonso as best driver of his generation

In my opinion on the opening page something like this must be mentioned:

Fernando Alonso Díaz (born 29 July 1981) is a Spanish Formula One racing driver and a double World Champion who is currently racing for McLaren-Honda.[3] He is often regarded as one of the greatest Formula One drivers (of all time)

Because, fans, co drivers ( Like Hamilton), and journalist often call him one of the best driver.

See below links for examples. http://en.f1i.com/news/77605-f1-media-sees-alonso-best-driver-current-grid.html http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a28898/f1-greatest-driver-of-all-time/ http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/37704633 http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/18957703 http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/04/24/hamilton-alonso-is-one-of-the-best-drivers-f1-has-ever-seen/ http://www.thetoptens.com/best-formula-one-drivers/ http://www.marca.com/en/2015/04/24/en/more_sports/1429899278.html http://www.givemesport.com/538705-fernando-alonso-was-formula-1s-best-driver-in-2014

If you look at Lewis page he is descript as “he is often ranked as the best Formula One driver of his generation” only by one source a opinion from David Coulthard Lobo151 (talk) 08:15, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

This is the kind of thing that happens when you call someone the best of anything. You end up with a beauty contest rather than an encyclopedia. This is why I resist it utterly. Britmax (talk) 12:12, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

I agree, but he is so often called (one)of the best, also mentioned alot in top 10 drivers of all time ect , that is should be mentioned in my opinion. If not you should change the page of Lewis to. Please dont understand me wrong I am both fan of Lewis and Fernando. But I think you should mentioned it by both pages or mentioned it not by both pages Lobo151 (talk) 17:03, 31 December 2016 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 12 January 2017

In my opinion on the opening page something like this must be mentioned:

Fernando Alonso Díaz (born 29 July 1981) is a Spanish Formula One racing driver and a double World Champion who is currently racing for McLaren-Honda.[3] He is often regarded as one of the greatest Formula One drivers (of all time)

Because, fans, co drivers ( Like Hamilton), and journalist often call him one of the best driver.

See below links for examples. http://en.f1i.com/news/77605-f1-media-sees-alonso-best-driver-current-grid.html http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a28898/f1-greatest-driver-of-all-time/ http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/37704633 http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/18957703 http://www.grandprix247.com/2015/04/24/hamilton-alonso-is-one-of-the-best-drivers-f1-has-ever-seen/ http://www.thetoptens.com/best-formula-one-drivers/ http://www.marca.com/en/2015/04/24/en/more_sports/1429899278.html http://www.givemesport.com/538705-fernando-alonso-was-formula-1s-best-driver-in-2014

If you look at Lewis page he is descript as “he is often ranked as the best Formula One driver of his generation” only by one source a opinion from David Coulthard


He is so often called (one)of the best, also mentioned alot in top 10 drivers of all time ect , that is should be mentioned in my opinion. If not you should change the page of Lewis to. Please dont understand me wrong I am both fan of Lewis and Fernando. But I think you should mentioned it by both pages or mentioned it not by both pages Lobo151 (talk) 09:24, 12 January 2017 (UTC)

Not done: No, this violates WP:NPOV. We are stating the facts on here, and we can do that by showing their awards, not by describing them as the best. st170e 13:50, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

This is nonsence. Why is it mentioned on Lewis page for example?? And if you "only" stating the facts then you should take a look at the "Controversies" subject. There is no neutral point of view at all there. Those so called controversies should be added to the seasonsummery. And not mentioned seperate which creating the idea Fernando Alonso is a controversial driver Lobo151 (talk) 18:18, 13 January 2017 (UTC)

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Mistake

There's a mistake in the description of the 2018 season. It says Alonso's 5th place in Australia was the best result for McLaren since 2014, which is totally wrong. Alonso finished 5th in Hungary 2015, Monaco and USA 2016. I wanted to edit it myself, but it seems like the page has some sort of protection. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 95.92.68.176 (talk) 15:50, 2 April 2018 (UTC)

It depends how you look at it. 5th place (such as Alonso scored in Australia) is McLaren's best result since 2014 - they just happen to have scored that result 4 times since then. DH85868993 (talk) 11:20, 3 April 2018 (UTC)

Incorrect information in article regarding Fuji WEC 2018

Formula One remains Alonso's top priority. As a result, Alonso will not contest WEC's Japanese round, at the Fuji Speedway on 21 October, due to it clashing with the US Grand Prix, held at the Circuit of the Americas, in Austin, Texas.[161][162]


This is no longer the case, as the Fuji WEC date was moved to 12-14 October so as to accommodate Fernando, source here: https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/134301/fuji-wec-date-move-for-alonso-gets-green-light

222.164.162.65 (talk) 14:00, 18 April 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 5 May 2018

World Endurance Championship MaddaliN (talk) 18:14, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. L293D (☎ • ✎) 19:12, 5 May 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2018

The word without is spelled wrong (witout) under the header "Helmet". CalliopeMuse (talk) 04:56, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

 Done Fixed. Thanks. DH85868993 (talk) 05:20, 31 May 2018 (UTC)

Signal Omission: Mid-season Mass Damper Ban, 2006

No F1 driver was more adversely impacted by Max Mosley's mid-season mass damper ban, than Fernando Alonso. The opening section of Alonso's 2006 F1 season should read as follows:

"Alonso's domination of the 2006 Formula 1 season was punctuated, by a peculiar decision handed down by FiA decreeing mass dampers a variable aerodynamic device. Ex post Mosley's mass damper ban, not one Grand Prix in 2006 would Alonso win thereafter, on his own merit."

That Mosley's mass damper ban effectively bisects Alonso's racing resume, omission of this milestone constitutes an egregious oversight. At face value, even the most obtuse of laymen could effectively argue, never was Alonso the same driver, since - asj. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.136.138.248 (talk) 18:08, 10 June 2018 (UTC)

Infobox Indy Best Finish

In his infobox it says his best Indycar finish was 29th. This is not true. He did not finish the race. Maybe there should be a note mentioning this in the infobox. Alternatively it could be renamed best Indycar classification. Mobile mundo (talk) 21:18, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Noting that (per the tooltip) it's best finish in the championship, not in an individual race, I think it's OK to use "finish" in this context, even though Alonso didn't actually finish the one race he contested, i.e. I think it's OK to say "Alonso finished the 2017 championship in 29th place"; it reinforces that it's the driver's best championship classification at the end of the championship, rather than at any point during the championship. DH85868993 (talk) 22:21, 17 June 2018 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 August 2018

Alfonso Fernando, learner driver of the year Gexenidufidelium10com (talk) 09:58, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. L293D (☎ • ✎) 15:35, 31 August 2018 (UTC)

Omission: Honda

If you please, career history on Fernando Alonso's Wikipedia page looks to have been scrubbed and cherry-picked, conspicuously devoid any-and-all reference to his incessant, contemptible criticism of Honda Motor Corporation at the time of the Japanese manufacturer's partnership with McLaren (e.g., 2015 through 2018).

Lack for objectivity clearly evident, the Wikipedia was never intended to be your personal vehicle, for spinning, sugar coating or minimizing corrupt, contemptible, nor controversial behavior, which certainly appears to be the case with Fernando Alonso's Wikipedia page.

Alonso's systematic assault upon Honda's nonsalvageable capital should constitute as necessary, and no less significant a chapter of his biographic, than was his controversial involvement in the Renault crash-gate incident (Grand Prix of Singapore; 2009), much less his role as principal protagonist in the instigation of the McLaren-Ferrari espionage scandal, 2007.

Alonso's Wikipedia page is curiously devoid any reference whatsoever, to numerous recent journalistic articles citing the self-centered nature of his behavior - qed, asj. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 47.138.81.254 (talk) 17:21, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

If you feel that something is missing you can make a edit request. But unless you make a specific request of what should be added/changed/removed your critisism of the way this article has been written doesn't stand for much and will likely be ignored. Also note that your critisism of Alonso's critisism of Honda (i.e. that Alonso's critisism of Honda was incessant, contemptible) also needs to be properly sourced, personally opinions have no place on Wikipedia. If you believe that the article is incomplete the responsibility is on your shoulders to make imporvements, and to make sure that these improvements follow wikipedia's policies and guidlines.
I look forward to reading your proposed changes.
SSSB (talk) 19:35, 12 December 2019 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 17 January 2020

There is a typo near footnote 222 under the `==Driving ability==` heading. Please change "Jouralists" to "Journalists". Hawkinsw2005 (talk) 10:39, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

 Done, thank you.
SSSB (talk) 11:06, 17 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 20 January 2020

2012 brazil vettel actually came sixth instead of fourth.


change fourth to sixth. 2A02:C7F:AEC7:3E00:20CB:D312:58C8:5711 (talk) 15:58, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

 Done - thanks,
SSSB (talk) 16:59, 20 January 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 31 March 2020

In the end of the 2005 subsection of the article, the age of Alonso is described as 24 years and 58 years. Should be 24 years and 58 days, I assume.

--37.142.245.150 (talk) 20:23, 31 March 2020 (UTC) Lev A.

 Done, thank you. Carfan568 (talk) 20:33, 31 March 2020 (UTC)

Claim of often regarded as one of the greatest Formula One drivers in the history of the sport

@Lobo151:, @Carfan568: reverted per WP:BRD, please follow that process and let's not get drawn into an edit war (I can feel it brewing). Let's just discuss this responsibly please.
SSSB (talk) 14:35, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

I provide multiple sources that confirmed this statement. If you don't want it to mention in case of POV. I can understand that. But then it should also not be mentioned for example on Sebastiaan Vettel his page. As the same statement is made there. With sources provided it can be mention here. If not no statement like this should be mention on any F1 drivers page. Lobo151 (talk) 14:42, 17 April 2020 (UTC)

The sources provided aren't strong enough for a claim that he is "one of the greatest Formula One drivers in the history of the sport". I don't think that if he occasionally appears on some top 10 list or some think that he out-performed a mediocre car in some season is enough for such a bold statement like that. Here are some sources which also criticise his politics and the scandals which he has been involved in and whatnot: this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this and this. In my opinion these "greatest in the history of the sport" statements should be very rarely used, and if used, only for drivers who appear in pretty much every top 5 list there is, like Senna for example. We should go with a neutral point of view and let the results speak for themselves. Carfan568 (talk) 15:07, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
"One of the greatest" is a phrase that can be endlessly debated and is clearly subjective, but in this instance I'm sure it has been used in conjuction with Alonso so often and by so many of his contemporaries that WP:AESTHETIC applies. It is not a definitive statement, it simply denotes his relative stature to those who might not otherwise have heard of him or recognise the significance of winning a Formula One world title compared to some more minor championship. Mighty Antar (talk) 17:59, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
If notable figures or publications have made the statement that he's one of the greatest in the history of the sport, then it is not feasible to try and keep it out of the article. Mighty Antar is absolutely right: the debate can go on for ever and everyone has an opinion, but Alonso isn't Yuji Ide. It's a reasonable claim to say he's one of the greatest. Providing the wording is clear and accurate, then it's acceptable. Alonso's internal politicking is irrelevant. Acres of cyberspace have been consumed claiming that Schumacher was a cheat and ran his competitors off the road (far more relevant to the claim to greatness than Alonso just being a bit of a dick, which is what that criticism amounts to), but people can still say Schumacher was the greatest. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:15, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
To be fair carfan most of your sources are no better than what Lobo mostly used. It doesn't matter how controversial people are. Mean Serena Williams and Michael Schumacher are probably as controversial figures in sport as you can find but are still considered amongst the greatest. There are at least 2 separate quality outlets I can see, although marca is biased as a spanish paper, but it is quoting Hamilton who did not always get on with Alonso. So to conclude I would have to say keeping the statement one of the best is absolutely fair and correct to say. Games of the world (talk) 19:05, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
I do think that the statement has the potential to remain, but I think we need a wider variety of sources to support this.
SSSB (talk) 20:25, 17 April 2020 (UTC)
Thetoptens.com does not look like a reliable source to me, and three of the sources talk of him as the one of the best on the grid at the time, not in history. Two of the sources are about the same comments made by Hamilton (which could be biased considering that he beat Alonso in his debut season) and one of the sources was an 8-year-old list in which he was only 10th. We also shouldn't just ignore the politics, scandals, etc. If he is one of the greatest in the history of the sport, why then does no top team seem to want him? Carfan568 (talk) 01:50, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Now you ignore reliable sources like BBC. You are now speculating that no top team whant him. You don't know that, that your personal opinion and pure specualtion. Furthermore this is already mention in a reaction before. Lobo151 (talk) 05:42, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

I did provide sources for that above. Again I don't think that him being 10th in an 8-year-old BBC list is enough to justify a statement like that. Carfan568 (talk) 09:06, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Carfan, very few of the sources you listed above actually dispute the fact that he is an all time great. The common thread is "Alonso is one of the best in the car, not so good outside". He plays dirty from time to time, has made a series of poor decisions and is bad at maintaining healthy relationships but they still acknowlege he is a great driver (the first line of the BBC source says Fernando Alonso: the F1 great who couldn't catch a break). The fact that team's don't want him (no team has said this but it is speculated by journalists) isn't becuase he isn't a great driver but because he is difficult outside of the car. Several of the sources you cited to refute the claim state that he could have won several more championships had events outside of his control gone his way. Now, I agree that Lobo needs more sources to back up his claim but equally the sources you provided are not sufficent to do the opposite, I could easily find several sources that call Schumacher or Vettel overrated and you only found a few sources that directly dispute the claim he is an all time grat, even the source where Schekter (I can never spell his name) calls him over-rated acknowleges that this is a minority view.
Also, these sources only consider his carrer in F1. I ask both of you, @Carfan568 and Lobo151: what about sources to suggest if he is/isn't a great beyond F1. Most notably his participations in Indy 500 and WEC?
SSSB (talk) 09:35, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
But aren't the off-track activities part of being an F1 driver? I'm not saying that he is a bad driver, but a statement like one of "the greatest Formula One drivers in the history of the sport" seems too strong considering that for example Senna has a very similar statement in his article, but he has been given much more significant coverage as one of the greatest of all time. Carfan568 (talk) 09:48, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
To me "the greatest Formula One drivers in the history of the sport" it means the greatest driver, driver is in the car, not out. But you can equally find plenty of contraversy about Senna, in particular his relationship with Prost. Let's just be clear I am not saying that Alonso should be called "the greatest Formula One drivers in the history of the sport", I am just saying that you haven't provided enough sources to suggest the opoosite.
SSSB (talk) 09:52, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
From this source: "being fast in a racing car and working with his team is still the most important part of a Formula One driver’s job". Besides, what is wrong with just letting the results speak for themselves and letting the reader decide himself what he thinks of him? I don't think that there has been given enough evidence that Alonso would be seriously considered to be one of the greatest Formula One drivers in the history of the sport either. Carfan568 (talk) 10:59, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
It's not going to be workable to stop people from claiming that Driver X is one of the greatest in the history of the sport. Anyway, what is "one of the greatest"? One of the top 3? The top 50? The former, I don't think many would claim that of Alonso, whereas the latter is a slam dunk. Just make sure the statements are sourced. Also, Senna and Schumacher both occasionally ran their competitors off the track, something I don't recall Alonso doing, so let's not concentrate too hard on personality when looking at "great drivers". Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:04, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
The way it's written makes it sound like he is one of the top three to me, and as you said, most would not claim that of Alonso. "One of the greatest in the history of the sport" is a completely subjective matter, especially considering that it's very difficult to compare drivers from different eras, so again, what is wrong with just letting the results speak for themselves and letting the reader decide himself what he thinks of him? Carfan568 (talk) 19:47, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Because if someone adds a reliably sourced statement to an article, you can't just remove it because you think it's too subjective. The way Wikipedia handles subjective statements is to source them adequately. The chances of successfully removing such statements from every driver article where they currently exist, are close to nil; editors would object, and their objections upheld. Bretonbanquet (talk) 20:15, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
The sourcing is not strong enough to state that he one of the greatest in the history of the sport. Also, from WP:SUBSTANTIATE: "Avoid the temptation to rephrase biased or opinion statements with weasel words, for example, 'Many people think John Doe is the best baseball player.' " and "Another approach is to specify or substantiate the statement, by giving those details that actually are factual. For example: 'John Doe had the highest batting average in the major leagues from 2003 through 2006.' People may still argue over whether he was the best baseball player. But they will not argue over this." Carfan568 (talk) 23:07, 18 April 2020 (UTC)
Sources are not strong enough? Have you even check them? For example [1][2]Again there are enough sources added to confirm this statement.Lobo151 (talk) 06:45, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
He is only 10th in the BBC list, and it is 8 years old and is missing the latter part of his career, so WP:AGE MATTERS. One list where he is fifth is not enough. There is a difference in calling someone "one of the greatest in the history of the sport" when he might occasionally appear in some top 10 list compared to someone who generally appears in every top 5 list. Carfan568 (talk) 09:21, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
Nonsense that's why multiple sources are added. Please check them. I now got the feeling your personal opinion is against the statement and you want it to be delete. But can't support your statement. Why have you not start this discussion on Vettel page for example? Lobo151 (talk) 09:45, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
I would agree that it should also be removed from Vettel's page as per WP:AGE MATTERS. The sources are very outdated and are missing his more controversial Ferrari years. Carfan568 (talk) 10:00, 19 April 2020 (UTC)

Agree. There are multiple different sources added confirming this statement. Lobo151 (talk) 14:56, 18 April 2020 (UTC)

Let's remember that we need to be objective and that your personal opinion is not needed in this. I think Carfan if you use your Vettel logic, the statement is worthy for Alonso is as there are multiple recent sources at the end of his F1 career that describe him as greatest. See 1 2 3 4 5 6 heck one of those is from this weekend from a google search saying Alonso one of the greatest. I'm not saying that you should use this or am trying to dictate a view, I am just giving an idea to try and break the deadlock between you two. Games of the world (talk) 11:17, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
The consensus in sources is that he good on the track, but bad off it. As Will Buxton says on his article "For every Imola and every Suzuka there was to follow a Spygate. A Crashgate. A Hondagate." And don't try to claim that that's irrelevant, I clearly gave a source saying "being fast in a racing car and working with his team is still the most important part of a Formula One driver’s job". I also quoted this: "Avoid the temptation to rephrase biased or opinion statements with weasel words, for example, 'Many people think John Doe is the best baseball player.' " and "Another approach is to specify or substantiate the statement, by giving those details that actually are factual. For example: 'John Doe had the highest batting average in the major leagues from 2003 through 2006.' People may still argue over whether he was the best baseball player. But they will not argue over this." Carfan568 (talk) 12:11, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
I see your point, but that doesn't fit for F1 as it relies on technology (Ferrari, Red Bull and Mercedes all since 2000 have had domination periods) and in the early years safety (cutting short careers). Is Vettel better that Alonso? Yes according to championship wins but if Vettel doesn't get to the first corner first he generally is not that great; so the point I'm making is that stats don't cut it alone; so either no one has the considered to be one of the greatest in their page or like in this instance we state it as in many people's opinion he is considered greatest on track framed with the off track incidents which frequently get brought up in legacy discussions with Alonso. But I feel that at this point, your rationale does not belong on the Alonso page and rather should be a more project wide discussion about all driver in motorsport, as it is bigger than one person as you've noted above. Games of the world (talk) 12:30, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
From MOS:LEADBIO about the lead section: "Write clinically, and let the facts speak for themselves. These concerns are especially pressing at biographies of living persons." I would say that that is a pretty good justification to remove these statements from the lead. His performances can be covered in the sections about the seasons themselves. Also, if we go with the logic that he could have won more in a better car, you could probably claim for a lot of drivers that they could have won more championships in better cars. Carfan568 (talk) 13:35, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
That does not apply here. It is a fact that Hamilton or whoever else is in the sources have said what they've said. You're simply not going to get all these sourced statements removed from these articles. I also agree with the above assessment that this isn't the place to have this discussion, as it applies to several other articles, not just this one. If you're only interested in removing the statement from this one, then that's a different matter entirely. Bretonbanquet (talk) 14:04, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
And why would it not apply to this article? I said remove from the lead, not from the whole article. Also, having a source does not guarantee inclusion. Carfan568 (talk) 18:37, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
It applies to all similar articles, not just this one. Therefore, this isn't the place to have this discussion. Throwing guidelines around won't help you build a consensus, in my experience. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:40, 19 April 2020 (UTC)
I'm entering this discussion without reading all of the massive wall of text above me, so please correct me if any of the following has already been brought up.
Wikipedia is not a space to share opinions, but I do not believe reporting this common judgement is an opinion. I often see Alonso referred to as either the greatest or one of the greatest Formula One drivers, just as frequently as this judgement is conferred on Senna or Hamilton and so on.
It is appropriate for Wikipedia to include these sort of statements when they are appropriately phrased and referenced. I see no problem in including a mention of this in the lead, as is done on Hamilton's, Vettel's, Fangio's, Lauda's, Senna's, Häkkinen's, Prost's, etc. It is established practice to share this information if it is a belief commonly held.
Whether or not Alonso is controversial is irrelevant. That is widely accepted and nobody denies it. In fact, I would expect that claim to also be included in the article, perhaps even in the same sentence. At the same time, if we are to accept that he is often regarded as a controversial figure, it would logically follow we must accept he is also considered to be one of the greatest F1 drivers.
Overall, I'm surprised that this is being challenged. A short, well-sourced statement in the lead such as "Alonso is often considered to be one of the greatest Formula One drivers of all time, but also one of the most controversial." should not be an issue at all. These claims exist on other F1 articles, and I genuinely cannot see why it should be different on Alonso's.
5225C (talk • contributions) 10:20, 21 April 2020 (UTC) (edited for spelling and grammar)
Did you read these: "Avoid the temptation to rephrase biased or opinion statements with weasel words, for example, 'Many people think John Doe is the best baseball player.' " and "Another approach is to specify or substantiate the statement, by giving those details that actually are factual. For example: 'John Doe had the highest batting average in the major leagues from 2003 through 2006.' People may still argue over whether he was the best baseball player. But they will not argue over this." The following about the lead section "Write clinically, and let the facts speak for themselves. These concerns are especially pressing at biographies of living persons." also says that it is not appropriate in the lead. Other articles having it in the lead is not a justification to have it in Alonso's article, the same applies to every page and can be changed in them as well. Carfan568 (talk) 14:09, 22 April 2020 (UTC)

Bretonbanquet Please show me where the explanation of why the guidelines do not apply to this is. Carfan568 (talk) 15:27, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

I explained it to you myself above. In WP:SUBSTANTIATE, which you keep citing, it allows factual statement about an opinion such as this, provided it is sourced. Regardless of your view of these guidelines, you still need a consensus. You started a discussion here, several editors got involved, and precisely nobody agreed with you on your interpretation of these guidelines. So you steam back in and make your change, and start edit warring again. You also removed similar material from Vettel's article, without even discussing it there. Poor show. Bretonbanquet (talk) 15:37, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
And WP:SUBSTANTIATE also says that using weasel words should be avoided. You also ignored MOS:LEADBIO which specifically states that facts should speak for themselves in the lead, someone's opinion is not a fact. You also ignore that the information was not removed from the article. No one disagreed with the guideline and policy based arguments, so making changes based on them was completely justified. Note that WP:CONSENSUS states that "unless they can convince the broader community that such action is right, participants in a WikiProject cannot decide that some generally accepted policy or guideline does not apply to articles within its scope". Carfan568 (talk) 16:05, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
Quoting from WP:WEASEL: The examples [...] are not automatically weasel words. They may also be used in the lead section of an article or in a topic sentence of a paragraph, and the article body or the rest of the paragraph can supply attribution. Likewise, views that are properly attributed to a reliable source may use similar expressions, if those expressions accurately represent the opinions of the source. All this is true therefore the article with the claim doesn't voilate the weasle word policy. Nobody has agreed with the removal of this information from the lead. Stop asserting that you have consensus, even a wp:silent consensus, when this is clearly not the case, because it is evident from anyone reading the above that you had no consensus making [these] changes [...] was completely justified is simply not true.
SSSB (talk) 16:16, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
You are ignoring MOS:LEADBIO, which specifically applies to Alonso and which specifically states "Write clinically, and let the facts speak for themselves. These concerns are especially pressing at biographies of living persons." The guideline where you quote from is more general and uses words like "not automatically" and "may". The quideline which I quote from directly applies to Alonso and straight up says "let the facts speak for themselves". You also ignore this "Another approach is to specify or substantiate the statement, by giving those details that actually are factual. For example: 'John Doe had the highest batting average in the major leagues from 2003 through 2006.' People may still argue over whether he was the best baseball player. But they will not argue over this." Again, the information or the sources were never removed, they were only placed solely in a place where it is more appropriate. Besides, the consensus in sources is not strong enough to state that "he is one of the greatest Formula One drivers in the history of the sport". I doubt that you can provide 10 unbiased and reliable sources which rank him among the five greatest F1 drivers in the history of the sport, let alone as the greatest, while many sources criticise him for his politicking, etc, so why wouldn't it be more appropriate in the driving ability section? Carfan568 (talk) 17:10, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
You're taking one phrase there from a guideline and interpreting it in a way which suits you. "Let the facts speak for themselves" – it's a fact that the voices in the sources provided have said Alonso is one of the greatest. So that statement is satisfied. You say that the "consensus in sources" is not strong enough. Nobody here agrees with you. Nobody has to provide ten sources which rank him in the top five, just because you demand it. "One of the greatest" doesn't mean the top five – who said it did? Nobody has claimed he is "the greatest". His politicking is utterly irrelevant; we've been through all this. You think his politicking is relevant, but Schumacher's and Senna's banger race tactics are not. It starts to look a little like you might just have a problem with Alonso. Ultimately, there is not only no consensus for your desire to remove this stuff, but there's actually a consensus to keep it. Not a single editor has agreed with you. At some point you should probably just drop the stick. Bretonbanquet (talk) 18:34, 26 April 2020 (UTC)
You act as if I'm completely removing the information from the article, I have never completely removed it and I'm not arguing for it to be completely removed. Someone's opinion is not a fact. It is a fact that it's their opinion, but opinions are not facts. Therefore, why do you want to have this opinion-based statement in the lead, even though the guideline for writing lead sections for biographies of living persons states otherwise? And no, if it were to be removed from the lead, it would not be removed from the article. Carfan568 (talk) 22:11, 26 April 2020 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ http://www.roadandtrack.com/motorsports/news/a28898/f1-greatest-driver-of-all-time/
  2. ^ https://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/18957703

Nonsensical statement in "driving ability"

The sentence "he drives aggressively and uses a braking area to put a car into a corner without losing speed exiting it" in the Driving Ability section does not make any sense. It does not match what was written in the cited article, nor does it explain anything about his driving ability in a way that drivers are typically discussed. I am sure that the person who made this edit is not a competitive driver. I would recommend either eliminating it entirely or matching the statement from the cited article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.181.48.66 (talk) 18:54, 8 July 2020 (UTC)

Motor racing career of Fernando Alonso

Why is there now a seperate page created for the Motor racing career of Fernando Alonso? I mean this main page is about the racing driver and his career of a racing driver. What is the need to have a sperate page for his racing career? Now there a 2 pages where his career is described? That makes things not clear. I think the original page contained enough information and summery of his career and provided enough information about his career needed for a Wikipedia page. Lobo151 (talk) 05:40, 29 July 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 23 August 2020

"He is often regarded as one of the greatest Formula One drivers in the history of the sport.[1]" Please delete this. It is at best opinion, as is the magazine article it references. The referenced article was written in 2016. Alonso left F1 around then and may return in 2021 or 2. He has 2 WDC while five drivers have 7, 6, 5, 4 and 4 WDC. By only a drunken or stoned measure is 2 WDC evidence of "one of the greatest" F1 drivers. 47.184.171.53 (talk) 17:59, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

This is already discussed before. Check the talk page Lobo151 (talk) 18:06, 23 August 2020 (UTC)
 Not done There are 8 sources referencing this claim. Additionally, the fact you are looking at this from purely a statistics point of view indicates that you have not even looked at the sources in question.
SSSB (talk) 18:35, 23 August 2020 (UTC)

Updates

In the chapter about other racing career, there is a sentence that he is still waiting to drive at Indianapolis 2020, but the fact is that race was held one month ago: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Indianapolis_500.— Preceding unsigned comment added by F1almanah.mk (talk • contribs) 13:43, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

 Done the two instances of incorrect tense (relating to this) that I could find.
SSSB (talk) 17:02, 19 September 2020 (UTC)

Controversies section needed

Known as one of the most divisive drivers in F1 over many years, and many scandals. Like it or not, he needs a Controversies section in the main article to list all the many examples. They are all well-known and many reliable sources can be found for each one. Other sports stars have these sections, but the fanboys on this article have not added one here. Can a responsible editor please create the section?2A00:23C4:215:C500:5CC4:47C6:52B0:F21E (talk) 13:03, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

WP:CRITS No need to have a whole section on controversies when it can be integrated in Alonso's career section. Where this is mentioned now. Lobo151 (talk) 13:22, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Rivalry section needed

Similar to Hamiltons, Vettels etc. To show his record against certain drivers and/or team-mates. For example, when teamed with Hamilton, he was beaten by hamilton for most stats etc. Can someone add this please as it really adds to the value of the article

Here is a start: In their time together as teammates, Hamilton and Alonso won 8 of 17 races in the 2007 Formula One season. Hamilton had 4 victories, 12 podium finishes and qualified ahead of Alonso 10 times. Alonso also had 4 victories, 12 podium finishes but qualified ahead of Hamilton only 7 times. At the end of their season as teammates, the pair were tied on 109 points, with Hamilton placing second and Alonso third in the World Drivers' Championship by virtue of Hamilton having more second-place finishes.[169]2A00:23C4:215:C500:5CC4:47C6:52B0:F21E (talk) 13:08, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

This would be a duplicate of what already is mentioned in the career section. Lobo151 (talk) 13:23, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Overview citation needed

At the end of the overview of Alonso’s career, the article claims he found no success in his later years due to an uncompetitive car.

"A second stint with McLaren from 2015 to 2018 resulted in no further success due to an uncompetitive car."

This is an opinion at best, and certainly seems to require a citation. I would do it myself, but the page is protected. Kandrion (talk) 20:18, 3 January 2021 (UTC)

It's been removed from the lead.
SSSB (talk) 09:21, 4 January 2021 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 21 January 2023

Change Roff Mortgage to Runoff Mortgage 174.238.51.65 (talk) 01:28, 21 January 2023 (UTC)

 Done Lightoil (talk) 04:58, 21 January 2023 (UTC)
Note: The edit request was implemented correctly - the correct spelling is "Ruoff Mortgage", not "Runoff Mortgage" as specified in the request. DH85868993 (talk) 04:40, 22 January 2023 (UTC)

Merged content, section headings

Per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Motor racing career of Fernando Alonso (2nd nomination) I have merged some of Motor racing career of Fernando Alonso ([8]) to this article, but it is requiring more trimming than I had expected, which is disappointing. In any case others should not hesitate to trim or rewrite further. I'm also thinking that the layout should be changed slightly. I think the section "Motor racing career" should include everything under "Other racing". To make this possible, I think a subsection "Formula One" (or similar) should be added, and all of the F1 subsections (ie "Minardi and Renault (2001–2006)", " McLaren and second stint with Renault (2007–2009)" etc) should be bumped down a layer to be subsubsections. If there are no objections I will do this in a few days. A7V2 (talk) 23:47, 26 January 2023 (UTC)

excuses

I've never seen a Formula 1 drivers Wikipedia page that has as many excuses for poor performance than this page. It's completely absurd. The biases towards him are incredibly obvious. It's as though Npov didn't exist. Jackhammer111 (talk) 19:10, 2 December 2022 (UTC)

I agree that this article does not read as a typical wikipedia entry. But what surprised me the most was the continual mentioning of the Hungarian GP—nine times, and another two mentions of Hungary. It's almost like an advertisement.
Pineapplesuitcase (talk) 02:06, 9 March 2023 (UTC)
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