Talk:Dražeta

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Untitled[edit]

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This article was nominated for deletion on 27 April 2007. The result of the discussion was keep.

References section[edit]

"((1) this is the English Wikipedia - use English (2) in what sense is this a "References" section? Looks like a list of non-notable people without Wikipedia entries to me"

I cannot believe this. Those references are in Serbian, but I do not believe that you do not see what they are. Why would I create a list of non-notable people and post it into this article? Is there a logic in this? If you look them better you will see that it is a list of books that are relevant for the subject of this article, i.e. which mention surname Dražeta and its origin (a proper way to list an book as a reference is to list name of the author of that book, name of the book, place of publishing and year of publishing, and you can see that I provided exactly this). Also, if you see reference named "Leksik prezimena Socijalističke Republike Hrvatske, Zagreb, 1976." you can see that there is no name of the author listed here (so much about your "theory" about "list of non-notable people"). Besides this, you can also notice that I listed books written by Vuk Stefanović Karadžić who is very notable Serbian author (this just show that you even did not read this section before you blanked it and an admin on Wikipedia certainly should not behave like this). Vampire in the city 15:23, 3 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Ahem. I was too hasty in my last edit summary. I should have read the above first.

The section still needs to be translated into English. This is the English Wikipedia. --Richard 01:15, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Let me try a different approach. Sorry for my misreading of the list. However, if I made the mistake, it is likely that others will as well. Please translate the list into English. This is the English Wikipedia. --Richard 01:30, 5 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

I have requested translation of the article here. --Richard 08:12, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

But what is the point of translation of those references into English? These references were published in Serbia or former Yugoslavia and they exist only in Serbian/Serbo-Croatian language. The whole purpose of listing references for something is that somebody could go to library to find and read such references and since those references do not exist in library in English language, it would not be useful for anybody to translate names of these books into English since he cannot find such books under such names. I translated the text from these references (I plan to translate more and expand this article), but I do not see a point of translating references because library do not have those references written in English. Vampire in the city 17:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC)[reply]

This is a simple matter. WP:NOENG is the relevant wikipedia policy here. Please read it. In summary, it says that:

English language references are preferred over non-english. So you should be doing a diligent search for other places where these facts may be established that English-speaking readers my refer to.
If the only suitable reference is not in the English language then the relevant text should be quoted and translated into English in a footnote.

Since neither of these things have been done, I recommend removing the references (and the 'facts' that they back up) until such time as either English language references become available - or the text from those references can be translated into English and placed into the article in footnotes. SteveBaker (talk) 12:30, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

OR[edit]

Nice article, but a gross violation of Wikipedia:No original research :) Can the author(s) move the intricate details and development to some other site, and only link the encyclopedic bits from here, please? --Joy [shallot] (talk) 13:35, 24 November 2010 (UTC)[reply]

No replies yet, so I'm starting an RFC. No members of the family are notable enough to have their own articles apparently, so does this whole thing warrant an encyclopedia article at all, particularly with this much inconsequential detail and OR? It seems a bit of a vanity article about someone's family history that's got very little to do with an encyclopedia. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 11:08, 23 March 2012 (UTC)[reply]

I think this article should be deleted. I don't see any valuable information for an encyclopedia here. If the family wants to create their own website and post this information there that is fine, but this type of page is not really something that should be on Wikipedia. Thepoodlechef (talk) 20:28, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Now that I have educated myself on the wikiproject I revert my last comment. I think this article could be improved by making it more about the history of the name and evolution of the name. Possibly. I still think this should be a short article and most of the stuff on here should be moved to a genealogy website. Thepoodlechef (talk) 20:48, 9 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The problem here is that notability is only established via references that are not in English. As I commented in the previous section, WP:NOENG requires that the relevant text from each non-English reference to be translated into English and placed as a footnote into the article. Once that has been done, we will be better able to judge whether those references show that the persons named pass Wikipedia's notability guideline. However, Wikipedia's notability guidelines only apply to the subjects of articles - not to (for example) people mentioned in articles. For example, I am personally not considered to be notable - yet my name appears as the author of several pieces of software that have articles because of their notability. In this case, the people listed as having that surname don't (strictly speaking) have to be notable, but if none of them are then perhaps there is an issue with the notability of the name in general. Quite honestly, until we can see the text of the relevant sections of these references translated into English, we cannot judge this issue.

Also, note that several of the internet links provided as references are broken - these need to be either fixed or removed.

My opinion is that we should remove names from that list that are not supported by either English or translated-into-English-as-footnotes references. When those references are found (or translated) then we may replace these names into the article and then we'll be better able to establish notability of the article as a whole.

The amount of detail in the article seems impressive - which is fine by me - providing it can be referenced with English translations.

Oh - and also: The names in that list should only be linked (and therefore show up as redlinks) if there is a reasonable likelyhood that an article about that person will eventually be written. If the person doesn't meet Wikipedia's notability guidelines then there is no prospect whatever of an article about them being written - so their name should certainly NOT be redlinked. However, once more, we need English translations of these references in order to judge the notability of each person.

SteveBaker (talk) 12:44, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

It should be noted that the bulk of this article was written in 2007 and 2009, which is before the changes to WP:NOENG that started to advocate translating non-English references. Which isn't to say I necessarily advocate these references being sufficient to keep this article. --Joy [shallot] (talk) 19:26, 23 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Yeah - I quite understand that. But we have to move to track Wikipedia policies - articles written before some policy was instituted are never "grandfathered in" to the old way of working. SteveBaker (talk) 17:08, 24 April 2012 (UTC)[reply]

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