Talk:Derek Chauvin

This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Derek Chauvin article.
This is not a forum for general discussion of the article's subject.

Put new text under old text. Click here to start a new topic.
New to Wikipedia? Welcome! Learn to edit; get help.

Article policies

Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL

Archives: 1, 2: 14 days

The contentious topics procedure applies to this page. This page is related to articles about living or recently deceased people, and edits relating to the subject (living or recently deceased) of such biographical articles, which has been designated as a contentious topic.

Editors who repeatedly or seriously fail to adhere to the purpose of Wikipedia, any expected standards of behaviour, or any normal editorial process may be blocked or restricted by an administrator. Editors are advised to familiarise themselves with the contentious topics procedures before editing this page.

The subject of this article is controversial and content may be in dispute. When updating the article, be bold, but not reckless. Feel free to try to improve the article, but don't take it personally if your changes are reversed; instead, come here to the talk page to discuss them. Content must be written from a neutral point of view. Include citations when adding content and consider tagging or removing unsourced information.

This article must adhere to the biographies of living persons (BLP) policy, even if it is not a biography, because it contains material about living persons. Contentious material about living persons that is unsourced or poorly sourced must be removed immediately from the article and its talk page, especially if potentially libellous. If such material is repeatedly inserted, or if you have other concerns, please report the issue to this noticeboard.

If you are a subject of this article, or acting on behalf of one, and you need help, please see this help page.

Biography

This article is within the scope of WikiProject Biography, a collaborative effort to create, develop and organize Wikipedia's articles about people. All interested editors are invited to join the project and contribute to the discussion. For instructions on how to use this banner, please refer to the documentation.BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Biographybiography articles

Minnesota Low‑importance

	Minnesota portal This article is within the scope of WikiProject Minnesota, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of articles related to Minnesota on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.MinnesotaWikipedia:WikiProject MinnesotaTemplate:WikiProject MinnesotaMinnesota articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Black Lives Matter Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Black Lives Matter, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Black Lives Matter on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Black Lives MatterWikipedia:WikiProject Black Lives MatterTemplate:WikiProject Black Lives MatterBlack Lives Matter articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Crime and Criminal Biography Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Crime and Criminal Biography, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Crime and Criminal Biography articles on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.Crime and Criminal BiographyWikipedia:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyTemplate:WikiProject Crime and Criminal BiographyCrime-related articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the project's importance scale.

Law Enforcement Low‑importance

	Law portal This article is within the scope of the WikiProject Law Enforcement. Please Join, Create, and Assess.Law EnforcementWikipedia:WikiProject Law EnforcementTemplate:WikiProject Law EnforcementLaw enforcement articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

Discrimination Low‑importance

	This article is within the scope of WikiProject Discrimination, a collaborative effort to improve the coverage of Discrimination on Wikipedia. If you would like to participate, please visit the project page, where you can join the discussion and see a list of open tasks.DiscriminationWikipedia:WikiProject DiscriminationTemplate:WikiProject DiscriminationDiscrimination articles
Low	This article has been rated as Low-importance on the importance scale.

faq page

Frequently asked questions

Q1: Does it have to say "white" police officer?

A1: Yes, because almost all reliable sources emphasize the significance of this fact.

Q2: I read some information on the web that isn't in this article!

A2: When proposing anything to be added to the article you need to cite a reliable source; secondary sources are generally preferred over primary.

Q3: This article is biased (for/against), or (whitewashes/blames), (Floyd/police)!

A3: See our neutral point of view policy. Complaints of bias must be accompanied by specific concerns or suggestions for change. Vague, general statements don't help.

Q4: Why is this article calling it a murder instead of a death/killing?

A4: As a person was formally convicted for murder in a court of law, the article uses the term "murder", in line with the community guidance at WP:MURDERS.

Q5: Wasn't Floyd killed near a store called Cub Foods, not Cup Foods?

A5: The store is Cup Foods, and is not affiliated with the Cub Foods store chain.

Q6: Why does the article use such a shocking photo? Isn't it in poor taste?

A6: The lead image was determined by the community in a formal Request for Comment process. The RfC reached an "overwhelming consensus" that "...the image, despite it being traumatizing, should be kept per WP:NOTCENSORED, as it is an appropriate representation of the topic."

Q7: Why was my request or comment removed?

A7: Because of the frequency of meritless and disruptive requests, any further requests to describe Floyd's murder using other terms (e.g. "death", "overdose") or to change the name of the article accordingly will be removed without consideration, unless the request complies with all relevant Wikipedia guidelines and essays, including WP:Requested moves, WP:Common name, WP:Article titles, WP:Naming conventions (violence and deaths), and WP:Reliable sources. Anyone removing such requests should include a link to this FAQ in their edit summary.

Q8: Why do we not call the protests riots?

A8: Because multiple reliable sources call them protests, not riots.

This article was nominated for deletion. Please review the prior discussions if you are considering re-nomination:

Keep, 12 June 2020, see discussion.
Speedy delete, 3 June 2020, see discussion.

This article was nominated for deletion review on 4 June 2020. The result of the discussion was Relist at AfD.

Text and/or other creative content from Derek Chauvin was copied or moved into State v. Chauvin. The former page's history now serves to provide attribution for that content in the latter page, and it must not be deleted as long as the latter page exists.

This article has been viewed enough times in a single week to appear in the Top 25 Report 2 times. The weeks in which this happened:

Daily pageviews of this article

A graph should have been displayed here but graphs are temporarily disabled. Until they are enabled again, visit the interactive graph at pageviews.wmcloud.org

Bias[edit]

"is an American former police officer who murdered George Floyd"

Strong words for a highly contested case that has strong evidence to the contrary, and a case deeply hampered by a desired political outcome. In the very least, the article should state that Derek was convicted of murder, not simply that he "murdered George Floyd". We know the courts sometimes seek out political outcomes and that their ultimate ruling does not represent what much of the public knows is to the contrary. 24.235.210.58 (talk) 05:13, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The sources are unanimous on what happened. You claim it’s disputed but that’s simply not the case. Not even close. There’s a video of it so it wasn’t hard to verify. 25stargeneral (talk) 05:18, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

Yes, it is unanimous, for anyone capable of independent query, who doesn't take their idea of unanimity from old guard media.

What is also unanimous is the one party state rule of Wikipedia, apparent in the legion of locked articles by left wing "academics", almost immediate attempts at refutations, and reversions of my edits. Which is why many people have washed their hands of the whole thing, and you have increasingly dwindling right wing representation on this platform, and why I may only interact with the platform once a year, if only engaging in exercises of futility. But enjoy your echo chamber.

I know you're not supposed to impugn motives and try to be objective on here. but the time for that passed long ago for me, when I noticed the severe imbalance of power here.

Blood on your hands, you whole lot, of an innocent man. 24.235.210.58 (talk) 05:32, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

No injuries were found on Floyd consistent with the neck injury narrative. The coroner said as much, and was pressured politically to change their opinion. 24.235.210.58 (talk) 07:19, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

You'll never change their minds. It's not even worth trying. 2603:6000:A602:121D:7E09:BF15:32A3:B103 (talk) 01:35, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

All true. No asphixiation found in the autopsy. 2600:1014:A019:7A20:112F:FFDC:C831:B6E9 (talk) 04:07, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I miss when Wikipedia wasn't run with bias 2601:18C:600:7510:A2AE:3E0C:2CEE:151 (talk) 12:05, 2 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree- 2600:1014:A019:7A20:112F:FFDC:C831:B6E9 (talk) 04:05, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I find this wiki ‘statement of fact’ also surprising. With the plethora of drugs in Floyd’s system and the known factors of some of these drugs to cause overdoses / death, I’m sure that the page should actually remove the “murdered” aspects and replace it with something less definitive. Convicted in the death of Floyd is a much better way to describe.

The coroners report / autopsy is readily available online for anyone who wishes to read it.

I firmly believe he wasn’t murdered but died as a result of drugs and the officers actions. 205.206.76.168 (talk) 16:27, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree, the article should say Chauvin was "convicted of murdering" rather than "murdered George Floyd". The reason is simple logic. Most criminal case decisions have the chance of two types of errors--false negatives and false positives. Therefore in general wikipedia should say things like "was convicted of murder" or "was convicted of child sexual abuse" or " was convicted of fraud" Academicskeptic9 (talk) 08:28, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Derek Chauvin murdered George Floyd. That is a factual and legal determined by a jury and court and the challenges to it have not succeeded. The only blood here is that shed by Mr. Floyd while a uniformed police officer ground his knee into the back and side of his victim's neck until that victim's heart and lungs stopped. Kablammo (talk) 11:31, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I don’t think you know everything about that case at this point. See the new documentary, The Fall of Minneapolis. Very revealing. 2600:1014:A019:7A20:112F:FFDC:C831:B6E9 (talk) 04:08, 16 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

That is not how legal decisions are made--they are made on a reasonable doubt basis, and doubt in most cases never goes down to zero. A conviction or aquittal does not discover a fact (except the fact of conviction or aquittal). In other words, there are always possibilities of type 1 or type 2 errors. So wikipedia should not be writing "Depp is not guilty of assault" rather "Depp was found not guilty of assualt". If Chauvin is ever exonerated of murder, wiki should not then say "CHauvin did not murder Floyd"--it should say "Chauvin has the murder conviction overturned by..." And currently, wiki should not write "Chauvin murdered ...." it should say "Chauvin was convicted of murdering..." This argument is AIRTIGHT. Academicskeptic9 (talk) 08:36, 21 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Moreover, Chauvin disregarded his training and knew that his actions could kill someone. On June 23, 2020 Minneapolis Police Chief Medaria Arradondo said that Chauvin had been trained in the dangers of positional asphyxiation and characterized Floyd's death as murder.^[1]

"knew that his actions could kill someone" It seems that he went out of his way to kill, not just risking a death. Dimadick (talk) 15:04, 28 November 2023 (UTC)[reply]

The Chief said:

“Mr. George Floyd’s tragic death was not due to a lack of training — the training was there. Chauvin knew what he was doing.”

“The officers knew what was happening — one intentionally caused it and the others failed to prevent it. This was murder — it wasn’t a lack of training.” [1]

References

^ Forliti, Amy (June 23, 2020). "Minneapolis police chief says Floyd's death was 'murder'". Twin Cities Pioneer Press. Twin Cities, Minnesota: Media NewsGroup Inc. Archived from the original on April 21, 2021. Retrieved June 24, 2020.

Biased Writing.[edit]

The opening paragraph is written in such a way as to convince the reader of the guilt of the subject by citing unrelated and unquantifiable prior negative issues. Whilst they may be true, it is not the purpose of an encyclopedia to persuade it's readers to think or respond in a specific way. The issue is not the content but rather it's delivery. 82.31.70.248 (talk) 22:26, 29 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

I agree that the first paragraph unduly emphasizes negative incidents, and does not give us any context for them. We are told that he had two letters of reprimand (is that a lot for his length of career?); was involved in three police shootings, one fatal (same question); and had 18 complaints against him (same question, and what were the resolutions?). Not until the "Career" section do we get a little more information on them, and the fact that he received two commendations and one medal for valor. The third and fourth sentences in the lede serve no purpose. Kablammo (talk) 21:20, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

At the very least, they seem out of place. I took the minimum action and moved them later in the lead (diff). Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 23:12, 30 December 2023 (UTC)[reply]

And I have mentioned in the lede his commendations and medals for valor. Kablammo (talk) 15:29, 12 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

9 minutes and 29 seconds[edit]

Please update this to specify that Derek Chauvin knelt on George Floyd's neck for exactly 9 minutes and 29 seconds, as proven by body cam footage, instead of "about 9 minutes." BabelMD (talk) 10:42, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

I have changed it to "over nine minutes". Kablammo (talk) 16:04, 15 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Other factors in George Floyd's death[edit]

It should be noted in the Wikipedia article on the cause of the George Floyd's death that there were several factors that contributed to Floyd's death. According to an AP article, the medical examiner indicated that Floyd suffered from heart disease, hypertension, enlarged heart, plus fentanyl intoxication and methamphetamine use at the time of his death. Those factors along with the pressure on his neck from Officer Chauvin caused his death. 2600:1700:2E37:1C00:702F:BD3A:4C80:C525 (talk) 20:22, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

Those details are covered at Murder of George Floyd#Autopsies, and that's not what they say. Both autopsies agreed that Floyd's heart stopped because Chauvin crushed his neck for upwards of nine minutes. One of the reports identified these other causes that made it more likely that Floyd's injury would be fatal, but Chauvin's restraint caused the fatal injury, and that's what's relevant to this article. Ivanvector (^Talk/_Edits) 21:00, 26 January 2024 (UTC)[reply]

43 or 23?[edit]

In the heading to Career: "He received a medal for valor in 2006 for being one of several officers who fired 23 shots on Wayne Reyes..."

But later on:

"On October 29, 2006, Chauvin was one of six officers who opened fire on Wayne Reyes, killing him, after he reportedly stabbed his girlfriend and a friend and fled in his truck.. Police shot 43 rounds in four seconds."

Which one?

Edited as initially ctrl + entered whilst incomplete by mistake. EPEAviator (talk) 14:47, 4 February 2024 (UTC)[reply]

[1] Forliti, Amy (June 23, 2020). "Minneapolis police chief says Floyd's death was 'murder'". Twin Cities Pioneer Press. Twin Cities, Minnesota: Media NewsGroup Inc. Archived from the original on April 21, 2021. Retrieved June 24, 2020.

[1]