Talk:Demi Lovato/Archive 7

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Demi no longer identifies as nonbinary?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/tvshowbiz/article-11073851/Demi-Lovato-admits-no-longer-using-reverted-her.html?ito=social-twitter_mailonline

Should we change the pronouns on this article back? (This seems to be different from the discussion above, which uses Instagram as a source.) George Huntley (talk) 18:53, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

P.S. to any TERFs participating in this discussion: remember that if you don't create an account, your IP address will be publicly visible! — Preceding unsigned comment added by George Huntley (talk • contribs) 20:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

First we would need a source that isn't deprecated, yeah? Newimpartial (talk) 19:13, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Maybe this one's appropriate: E.T. —VersaceSpace 🌃 19:15, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Well, it isn't deprecated. :)

Note re: the section heading - these sources (and presumably the podcast interview on which they are based) discuss pronouns but don't make a statement about nonbinary identity (or otherwise) - feeling more feminine doesn't have anything in particular to do with being or not being nonbinary.

My own WP:OR observation is that being such a fluid person might hint at an emerging genderfluid identity, but that isn't mutually exclusive with nonbinary identity and, in any event, isn't presented as a gender identity in these articles. Newimpartial (talk) 19:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Well, actually changing Demi's pronouns on the article(s) is going to require extensive discussion no matter what, so I suggest waiting until more people learn of this so it can be thoroughly spoken about. —VersaceSpace 🌃 19:28, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

If she went from her to him on social media, there would be no hesitation to change every reference to "him". Now that it needs to be changed back, suddenly there's cautious debate. 165.89.30.1 (talk) 19:31, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

That's false. When Demi became non-binary there was discussion prior to the changing of the singer's pronouns across articles. Is there an implication you're attempting to make? —VersaceSpace 🌃 19:33, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I doubt, since there are cases like Quentin Crisp — Tazuco ✉️ 00:01, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Why are you moving the goal post? I don't see anything wrong with DailyMail. Do we need to wait until the outlets that pushed the Jussie Smollett hoax, Covington kids hoax or Trump Russia hoax to chime in on the story? 165.89.30.1 (talk) 19:28, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes, 165.89.30.1, we actually do, as they are reliable sources. —VersaceSpace 🌃 19:29, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

IP: The Daily Mail is deprecated for use on Wikipedia. It is not considered reliable. Newimpartial (talk) 19:36, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Name one reliable source. 165.89.30.1 (talk) 15:48, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

You can find all of them here. —VersaceSpace 🌃 15:53, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

https://www.etonline.com/demi-lovato-updates-her-pronouns-to-sheher-188417 Hello, it appears that plenty of non deprecated sources have reported on this and she herself made the statement she has officially changed her pronouns back, including her saying “Everyone messes up pronouns at some point” implies she has abandoned identifying as they/them. We should respect her wishes and change her Wikipedia page to reflect how she identifies, especially before users like Newimpartial that contributed to petty conflict in the other topic on her talk page turn this into a repeat of that topic. JNC23 (talk) 19:46, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

@JNC23: neither me nor Newimpartial have displayed any objection to changing Demi's pronouns, but this is a contentious change that will need to be discussed at length, or at the very least we'll need to wait for more reliable sources to report on this. —VersaceSpace 🌃 19:49, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I understand your hesitation, but what source is more reliable than her stating this herself on a podcast? I know you are not opposed to it, I was just noting that on the previous discussion of this topic that happened last month Newimpartial was among a group of users contributing to conflict over this, and I just feel it would be beneficial to make this change before it becomes a similar cesspool of argument JNC23 (talk) 19:59, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

JNC23: the passage from the interview that reads “Everyone messes up pronouns at some point” should not be misread as suggesting that Demi messed up their own pronouns - that's not what it says.

In last month's discussion, all we had was "she/her" on the trailing end of a list of pronouns on social media, and editors were arguing here that the article switch pronouns for reasons that have nothing to do with WP policy. The sourcing situation is clearly changing, so there is no need for you to be hostile in anticipation of a potential negative reaction. Newimpartial (talk) 20:12, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

No, that sentence does not refer to herself, it refers to the interviewer. Demi might better be described as genderfluid, but that she is using she/her pronouns does not mean she's no longer non-binary or anything. Like myself, some of us are just fine with whatever pronouns. Others, like Eddie Izzard, oscillate until they feel at home in one set. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:00, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

@JNC23: It is not verifiable that Lovato has "switched back" or no longer identifies as non-binary. Her Instagram bio currently lists their pronouns as they/them/she/her, implying acceptance of either. In spite of the sloppily written headlines, accepting both she and they pronouns does not constitute "abandoning" non-binary identity. Pronouns are not gender identity—people do not "identify as they/them". There's a mild case to be made that we should prefer the one listed first, but it would be fine for this article to use either. Distinctions like these are why we need to exercise caution. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 20:01, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I was just about to add what Roxy said... "The pronouns on Lovato's Instagram bio have been updated, which also include they/them/she/her. " means either are fine. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:02, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

But she/her is much easier to understand grammatically than they/them, and if both are acceptable, why not go with the pronoun that is easier for readers to understand? Also, unsure why a direct audio quote from her is still not enough evidence. She never said she still is cool with people using they/them, and maybe she hasn't had time to go on Instagram or remembered she has to change her social media pronouns. And even if she does change them on Instagram, that still wouldn't be enough for Wikipedia. 24.156.179.25 (talk) 20:20, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The argument that she/her is much easier to understand grammatically (sic.) than they/them isn't compatible with Wikipedia policy or with 21st-century English, for that matter.

If you want the article to "switch back" to she/her pronouns, the policy-relevant arguments would be that actual reliable sources use these pronouns for Demi, and that she prefers that they be used for herself (if Demi does).

On the other hand, if your goal is simply to stir up Talk page contention, I suggest you continue to offer your personal, unsourced POV on English grammar and usage.Newimpartial (talk) 20:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Oh and also, the mental gymnastics here is astonishing. We use pronouns to reflect how people identify, correct? Pronouns *are* gender identity, that was the whole reason why people change pronouns in the first place. RoxySaunders is thinking of pronouns =/= biological sex. The only reason why at this point she would tolerate they/them is because she doesn't care, not because she doesn't think she is feminine. 24.156.179.25 (talk) 20:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Feminine, nonbinary people exist and we have the same ability to choose our pronouns as anyone else, thanks. Newimpartial (talk) 20:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Lol, pronouns are not gender identity. Demi can be nonbinary and still be feminine and use feminine pronouns. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:32, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes they are gender identity. I go by he/him because I identify as male. Are you saying someone who identifies as girl can be masculine and therefore use male pronouns? At that point terminology just doesn't reflect any sense of reality. 24.156.179.25 (talk) 20:38, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I'm saying that a nonbinary feminine person like Demi can use whatever pronouns they want because their gender identity is nonbinary. And frankly, if someone is a girl and uses he/him, that's fine too... I'd chalk it up to gender nonconformity/queerness. EvergreenFir (talk) 20:45, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Yes, people can and do sometimes use pronouns that don't traditionally match their gender (for example, Big Freedia), and this is especially true with nonbinary people because nonbinary isn't even a gender, it's an umbrella for various non-traditional genders, combinations of genders, or, for some, a lack of gender. For instance I'm nonbinary but explicitly do not like they/them (my main sets are fae/faer, pony/ponys, and she/her). Soweli Rin (talk) 20:57, 16 August 2022 (UTC)

This argument is getting into the weeds. It doesn't matter if the subject identifies as non-binary or not; the only thing pertinent to this discussion is what pronouns the subject prefers. Someone can be NB and still prefer any range of pronouns. --Kbabej (talk) 20:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

• A green-level RS on RSP (People) has covered this story with an exchange in quotes from the podcast here. The source says: "In response to Dhia asking Lovato to explain the concept of chosen pronouns like they/them, the 29-year-old singer-songwriter said, "Yeah, so, they/them is... I've actually adopted the pronouns of she/her again."" That seems quite clear to me. --Kbabej (talk) 20:24, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  Correct. To steelman the other side's argument, they can say "that doesn't mean she no longer uses they/them". But the thing is, she has had both pronouns for a while. So, what would be the point of her statement? If she still went by both they/them and she/her, she would feel no need to even say that. At minimum, she *prefers* she/her over they/them. And based off the woke Wiki agenda, we *must* use *preferred* pronouns. Just because someone can go by they/them doesn't automatically mean that's their preferred pronoun. Crazy concept isn't it? 24.156.179.25 (talk) 20:28, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  They/them were, and still are, listed first on Instagram. George Huntley (talk) 20:31, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  Ever thought that she doesn't use social media 24/7 and just hasn't updated it yet? Why is a quote straight from her mouth less trustworthy than her social media profile? She is rolling out an album, the last thing on her mind is to update her IG pronouns. 24.156.179.25 (talk) 20:33, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  I think a verbatim statement from less than a day ago would take precedence over an Insta description. She may not have rushed to update it. --Kbabej (talk) 20:34, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  You may have missed the key point that the prompt for the quoted conversation seems to have been the change to Instagram pronouns back in April. Newimpartial (talk) 20:36, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  @Newimpartial, I caught that, but the statement saying "I've actually adopted the pronouns of she/her again" is like a day old. --Kbabej (talk) 20:38, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  Can't wait for one day in the future when Demi decides to go back to they/them. These people would without hesitation make the pronoun changes instantaneously. But changing to she/her is just too controversial and they need 100% unfalsifiable sources, even with a direct quote in it. 24.156.179.25 (talk) 20:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  What I'm saying is, I don't see any incompatibility between the two. OR again, but if this is an emerging genderfluid identity then it is entirely possible that demi has adopted ... she/her again while leaving they/them as accepted pronouns and even giving them pride of place on Instagram. Newimpartial (talk) 20:42, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  I'm not saying Demi no longer accepts they/them. The point is, which pronouns does she *prefer*. This is Wikipedia's whole mantra, is it not? This is why I believe your side of the debate is being hypocritical. To reiterate, her IG for months has both in her profile. So, for her to come out today and say "I'm going by she/her again", what other conclusion can you draw from this other than her newly established preference of she/her pronouns? 24.156.179.25 (talk) 20:57, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  I'm not drawing any other conclusion. But if Demi turns out to be genderfluid, there may come a time when the sources come to distinguish between "Demi's preferred pronouns this year" and "Demi's preferred pronouns today" and if they do, and what they do is compatible with WP policy, then we should follow them. Newimpartial (talk) 21:05, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  What's the consensus for genderfluid pronouns, anyway? Use "they"? ωικιωαrrιorᑫᑫ1ᑫ 21:41, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  In addition to the quote you provide from People about Demi adopting she/her again, I would call attention to the fact that People has chosen to use she/her consistently in the piece. We should follow the sources where they document and align with the subject's declaration. Newimpartial (talk) 20:35, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  Agreed! --Kbabej (talk) 20:39, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

  I'd agree with this... also pinging Praxidicae EvergreenFir (talk) 20:51, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

There are a few points I'd like to make. First, I'm sorry for using a DailyMail source, and had no idea those have been officially deprecated. Second, I almost didn't realize that the original discussion I was referring to went back to last April. Third, I disagree that "everyone messes up pronouns at some point" references Demi's own pronoun choices; it seems more directed towards followers. Thanks. George Huntley (talk) 20:30, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Those are good points. Newimpartial (talk) 20:40, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

She didn't "change her pronouns back". They still use they/them pronouns alongside with she/her and they still identify as non-binary. People, actually inform yourselves before thinking of making these changes, and please stop persisting in this tirade against they/them pronouns only because of your ideological pursuits. It's pathetic. Paolo Calucci (talk) 16:42, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

Alright, since there seems to be a strong WP:CONSENSUS, I've gone ahead and rewritten the lead section to use she/her pronouns. Feel free to revert if you don't agree, but try not to invoke WP:EDITWAR. ωικιωαrrιorᑫᑫ1ᑫ 20:49, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

EDIT: @Praxidicae: I'm sorry. ωικιωαrrιorᑫᑫ1ᑫ 20:50, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

I see a consensus about the actual pronoun choice for this article, accompanied by a desire on the part of certain editors to litigate issues other than the actual pronoun choice for this article. Newimpartial (talk) 20:59, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Agreed; in spite of some WP:BATTLEGROUNDing, there appears to be an emerging consensus that Lovato's remarks in the podcast constitute their latest expressed self-identification, and thus, a policy basis for using she/her pronouns in her article. However, due to the various ambiguities under discussion, I'm not sure we should state definitively, in-text, that As of Aug 2, Lovato uses she/her pronouns. Unless other sources arise, I don't see anything in the interview snippet to indicate that Lovato no longer considers they/them/she/her to be an accurate list of her pronouns. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 21:54, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

It is a similar case to Halsey or Kehlani ("Kehlani uses both she/her and they/them pronouns and switches between them. This article uses they/them pronouns for consistency."), they use neutral and feminine pronouns at the same time. But Demi has stated in interviews and on social media that she currently prefers they/them.BePlus (talk) 22:01, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Our most recent source is the podcast interview published today. At roughly the 11:00 mark, Lovato remarks, "That's what they/them is about for me. It's just about, like, feeling human at your core ... Recently, I've been feeling more feminine, and so I've adopted she/her again." Editors have interpreted this to mean that Lovato now prefers she/her pronouns, although I disagree somewhat. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 22:20, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Given the (limited but real) ambiguity of the situation, it seems to me that we have no real option but to rely on the WP:RS. Our own interpretations of an ABOUTSELF piece aren't especially relevant. Newimpartial (talk) 22:23, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

The article is fake news and clickbait, Lovato never stopped using the they/them pronouns, they added the she/her pronouns months ago, but the main ones are the neutral ones, they identifies as a non-binary person. They never claimed to leave their pronouns in the interview, their pronouns are on his Instagram. In the article, the neutral pronouns must remain, since they are the main ones that they uses. "As of August 2nd, 2022, Lovato no longer uses they/them pronouns" is fake, please restore to the previous and correct version.:) BePlus (talk) 21:27, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Hello @BePlus. How is it you've determined a direct quote from the subject in a green-level source on RSP is "fake news"? --Kbabej (talk) 21:29, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

hear hear 165.89.30.1 (talk) 15:53, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

I don't think the WP article says that. And the recent RS font shlloe4 your statement that they are the main ones that they uses (sic.) Newimpartial (talk) 21:36, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

See how the clickbait title has already changed after the controversy: "Demi Lovato, 29, explains she's now using 'she/her' pronouns AS WELL as 'they/them' one year after coming out as non-binary: 'I'm such a fluid person'".BePlus (talk) 21:38, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

You're placing a lot of emphasis on the title. Please review WP:HEADLINES on RSP, which states the RS part is the body narrative, not the title. --Kbabej (talk) 21:52, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

That's what I'm saying, the debate was generated after false titles about Demi changing their pronouns from they/them to she/her, when they didn't. The contents of the articles always commented on Demi's decision to have both pronouns (what happened months ago), which she stated in a podcast, the rest was clickbait. There's the interview. That's why I don't see any logic in changing the pronouns in the article, considering which ones Demi prefers. BePlus (talk) 22:36, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

You have claimed that Demi currently prefers they/them, but the independent, reliable sources don't seem to back you up on that. Newimpartial (talk) 22:46, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

User:Newimpartial seems to already have. ωικιωαrrιorᑫᑫ1ᑫ 21:39, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

Somebody needs to finish the process I started. I have added a quote to the article to underline what we reliably know at this point. The article should not state that Demi "doesn't use" they/them, because we don't know that, but we should follow the sources and use she/her. Newimpartial (talk) 22:02, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

For one, Daily Mail is a banned source. People magazine would be an acceptable source. Whatever the case may be, this article absolutely requires pronoun consistency which is now in limbo. Trillfendi (talk) 21:31, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

• Noting that I've provisionally removed the editnotices on the article and this talkpage while things are sorted out. Anyone with the necessary perms is welcome to restore them once a solid consensus is reached; anyone else can feel free to ping me or submit a {{tper}}. (Do note that {{pronouns editnotice}} does support multiple sets of pronouns with a |consistency= parameter for the one used in the article.) -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 22:08, 2 August 2022 (UTC) (ed. 22:11, 2 August 2022 (UTC))

  Thanks, I was just about to leave you a message to that effect. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 22:09, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

• Looking at the source it looks like it's more or less just repeating/clarifying things that have been known to this talk page since April? That is, it seems like it's just saying (my interpretation, not a quote) "I adopted she/her [i.e. alongside they/them, as their social media has stated for months] because I'm comfortable with femininity again when I wasn't back when I was just using they/them". I'm curious why this was apparently enough that I'm assuming there was consensus to change the pronouns back to she since they have been large-scale changed AFAICT when it doesn't state anything that sounds new to me. - Purplewowies (talk) 22:16, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
  • I can't speak for anyone else, but what convinces me is the reporting in independent, reliable sources. Also, I didn't see anything back in April that supported "I'm comfortable with femininity again and therefore prefer she/her" among the many possible interpretations of April's socials. Newimpartial (talk) 22:20, 2 August 2022 (UTC)

    It may just be a difference in the way I'm understanding the reporting, then. *shrug* - Purplewowies (talk) 00:59, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

• She/her pronouns are the safest option given the latest reliable source reporting. It is not clear that they/them pronouns would be incorrect, nor that we need to change anything relating to the 2021 self-identification as non-binary. For the record, I do not believe this was the same situation when it was just an Instagram bio change. — Bilorv (talk) 22:59, 2 August 2022 (UTC)
• I updated The Bigg Chill with the pronoun thing in mind, mainly so we don't have to worry about altering quotations. -BRAINULATOR9 (TALK) 02:35, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I would like to object to the current formulation of the footnote, as I do not believe that anything in what Demi said indicates a complete abandonment of they/them pronouns and Instagram still lists they/them/she/her. I think that a formulation similar to the one on Judith Butler's article (along the lines of "Lovato uses they/them and she/her pronouns, but in August 2022 expressed a preference for the latter.") would respect recent developments while not completely ignoring they/them. Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 12:58, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

The footnote currently reads As of August 2, 2022, Lovato uses she/her pronouns, in addition to they/them. This article uses she/her pronouns for consistency. Do you object to any of that? Newimpartial (talk) 20:29, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

This sounds a lot better to me. Thank you. Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 20:45, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Don't thank me - it was Nielsoncaetanosalmeron who improved the note. Newimpartial (talk) 20:51, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Editnotice

Things look stable enough now, so any objection to me reädding the article editnotice as follows?

(The talkpage link will be a working link in production.) The editnotice I had up for this talkpage, meanwhile, seems no longer applicable. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 07:40, 8 August 2022 (UTC)

Go right ahead! That update seems quite appropriate. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 04:41, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

 Done. If anyone has any questions or concerns, please let me know. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 07:26, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

Deadname?

Demi Lovato goes by Demi and not her birth name. The lead should read "Demi Lovato (born <birth name> [...]". We need to decide whether to put her birth name in parentheses or not. It may even be possible to remove her deadname, per MOS:DEADNAME. WPEditor42 (talk) 20:19, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Source for it being considered a dead name? As far as I know, “Demetria Devonne Lovato” is their actual, legal name while “Demi Lovato” is a stage name and/or a nickname. MRN2electricboogaloo (talk) 20:43, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

It can be edited to say "Demetria Devonne Lovato (born [...]), better known as Demi Lovato, [...]". WPEditor42 (talk) 20:48, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

That is, until it's confirmed that Demetria Devonne Lovato is a deadname. WPEditor42 (talk) 20:56, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I've made the edit. I'm not sure this would be a "deadname", but I guess if she says it is we'd make that change. I just think of mine like a suit: uncomfortable and only for formal occasions. EvergreenFir (talk) 21:40, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Demetria Devonne Lovato is not a deadname… Trillfendi (talk) 22:11, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

I thought it was, since Demi doesn't usually her birth name. However, it also looks like Demi is short for Demetria so it's more like a nickname, stage name or preferred name. If it's found that Demetria Devonne Lovato is a deadname, we're going to consider it a deadname and change the page so Demi Lovato is the name that shows up first in the lead. WPEditor42 (talk) 22:17, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

Also in IMDb she's introduced as Demetria Devonne "Demi" Lovato WPEditor42 (talk) 22:19, 3 August 2022 (UTC)

• Past discussion: Talk:Demi Lovato/Archive 6 § Using full name in lede. I do stand by my position there: As she hasn't gone by it in the time that she's identified as nonbinary, we should assume it's a deadname. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 02:25, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

  @Tamzin, see my comment below. That's a big leap that just because she's NB means she wants her name removed. Demi is a shortened form of her name. It's like a "Jessica" going by "Jess". --Kbabej (talk) 20:35, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

  It's true that some transgender and non-binary people choose not to change their names, and keep their pre-transition name. Demi Lovato is one of these people. WPEditor42 (talk) 19:28, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

  There are a lot of non-binary people who use masculine or feminine names. If Lovato hasn't specified that "Demetria" is a deadname, I don't think it should be removed from the article. —VersaceSpace 🌃 17:00, 5 August 2022 (UTC)

  If Lovato didn't specify that her birth name is a deadname on a reliable source, do not say it is a deadname on Wikipedia, because that would be considered original research, which is not allowed on Wikipedia. WPEditor42 (talk) 19:35, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

There are a lot of assumptions being made here. It doesn't matter if the subject is nonbinary or not; it matters if the subject has stated their birth name is a deadname. Lots of trans/NB people use their birth name as their name - take Tommy Dorfman for example. Dorfman is a trans woman, uses she/her pronouns, and still uses their birth name. Just because someone is NB doesn't mean we immediately remove their birth name. Demi is simply a shortened form of the subject's birth name, which they use as a stage name. If they started going by something completely different in an announcement of their identity, that would be different. The name should stay until we hear otherwise from the subject. --Kbabej (talk) 20:33, 4 August 2022 (UTC)

Edit request 9th August 2022

In "Early life and career beginnings", please change "whom she first spoke to when Demi was 20 years old." to "whom Demi first spoke to at age 20." I feel this better handles the issue of the double she pronouns for Amber and Demi by removing that issue altogether, as it reads a bit clunky in its current form to refer to Demi as "she" first and then by her name. FeFiFo (talk) 01:49, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

 Done I agree this is better and have revised the sentence accordingly. SNUGGUMS (talk / edits) 04:38, 9 August 2022 (UTC)

It should be changed to "whom Lovato first spoke to at age 20.", per this manual of style. WPEditor42 (talk) 19:43, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

I've changed it to say Lovato instead of Demi. Note that MOS:SURNAME only applies to articles, and does not mean you have to refer to people by their surname in the edit summary and talk pages. WPEditor42 (talk) 19:48, 20 August 2022 (UTC)

Genre

Please, since edition is closed to prevent vandalism, Demi’s genre should be updated. Her last album is rock and there are many reliable sources. For example

https://www.billboard.com/lists/demi-lovato-holy-fvck-tracks-ranked/

Also, most of the professional reviews agree on the album being rock, with some pop punk songs and metal, hard rock and goth influences. Maybe the best option is: Early and contemporary: rock, pop punk, pop rock. And the rest: R&B, Pop… Hadriensaori (talk) 17:18, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Also, in Don’t forget page I added a source classifying the album as Rock. Hadriensaori (talk) 17:19, 22 August 2022 (UTC)

Most of her albums are described as rock-influenced records. Unless she (and not her discography) is described as a rock singer, the classification is incorrect. (CC) Tbhotch^™ 01:48, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 28 August 2022

Change Demi Lovato's pronouns to they/them from she/her. EMiLy Sau (talk) 05:01, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: According to the discussion above, Lovato seems to accept either they or she. Lovato most recently noted that she had re-adopted she/her pronouns in a recent interview, so the article currently uses those for consistency. If Lovato's preference has changed, please open a new discussion topic and provide a source.

See also MOS:GENDERID for more about Wikipedia's guidelines for writing about gender identity. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 05:18, 28 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 29 August 2022

Change sheTo they 122.60.60.113 (talk) 08:12, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: this has been discussed twice above already. Any change at this point would require prior discussion to establish consensus. Madeline (part of me) 08:21, 29 August 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 4 September 2022

Demi Lovato goes by they/them pronouns 86.13.16.76 (talk) 08:56, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

 Not done for now: please establish a consensus for this alteration before using the {{edit extended-protected}} template. ––FormalDude (talk) 09:37, 4 September 2022 (UTC)

Influences and Voice

Add Mariah Carey to her influences, and Demi's ability to sing and enunciate in the whistle register. 8.2.72.75 (talk) 22:27, 30 September 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 October 2022

change "her" to "them" and "she" to "they" throughout Alenadeyoung (talk) 18:18, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

Has Demi made another announcement? Newimpartial (talk) 18:24, 12 October 2022 (UTC)

 Not done as her Instagram bio still allows the use of she/her. This discussion determined that the article should use she/her. ~~ lol1VNIO (I made a mistake? talk to me) 20:12, 13 October 2022 (UTC)

Correcting a mistake

If anyone here can, can someone please change Demi's pronouns to thier correct ones, they/them. 2600:4040:7C7B:7A00:FD03:4586:F87B:4494 (talk) 23:31, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Hello! On their Instagram page, Demi lists her pronouns as they/them/she/her, indicating that either she or they are correct pronouns for Demi. The article currently uses only one she/her, for the sake of consistency. See this discussion for further information. –RoxySaunders 🏳️‍⚧️ (💬 • 📝) 23:41, 10 December 2022 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 February 2023

Lovato will be singing Still Alive, the lead single for Scream Movie 6 soundtrack HaysonDage (talk) 01:05, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. Cannolis (talk) 07:47, 16 February 2023 (UTC)

Feminine term "actress"

Shouldn't we just call her a "performer", since she is non-binary?2601:5C7:8300:EF70:253F:F98A:BCDD:3700 (talk) 03:20, 19 February 2023 (UTC)

Nothing prevents non-binary people from identifying with certain gendered terms. Lovato has identified herself using the word "actress" in the press on various occasions. I have never seen an instance of her using the word "actor" to describe herself. It is important to note that Lovato is both a singer and an actress. Just calling her a "performer" does not distinguish those two career tracks. IronGargoyle (talk) 15:55, 23 February 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 16 March 2023

Demi will be doing a Hulu documentary titled Child Stars HaysonDage (talk) 20:42, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: please provide reliable sources that support the change you want to be made. ■ ∃ Madeline ⇔ ∃ Part of me ; 20:44, 16 March 2023 (UTC)

Heart Attack rock version + Child Star documentary

https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/magazines/panache/demi-lovato-to-make-directorial-debut-with-hulu-documentary-on-child-stardom/articleshow/98795516.cms?from=mdr

https://www.billboard.com/music/rock/demi-lovato-heart-attack-rock-version-1235289944/ HaysonDage (talk) 18:03, 22 March 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 April 2023

Child Star documentary on Hulu HaysonDage (talk) 01:04, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 01:13, 1 April 2023 (UTC)

Personal life - Sexuality, gender and relationships

Lovato then had an on-again, off-again relationship with actor Wilmer Valderrama; they first began dating in August 2010 when Valderrama was 29 and Lovato was 18. This is wrong, cause he was 30, cause he was born 1980 January. 46.135.17.106 (talk) 06:23, 15 April 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 22 April 2023

Dear Mr/Mrs, I think the main Profile Picture of the Singer-Songwriter Demi Lovato should be changed. As is a very old photo of her in 2020 and it doesn't even show off her beauty in the best possible way instead it is a photo taken from an interview while she was laughing and moving around. So I request you to kindly change this picture of her to a new one.

I suggest a picture below but you can choose any other one that suits you and help show off her beauty in the best way possible.

change https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/1/1c/Demi_Lovato_Interview_Feb_2020.png to https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/e226ae1d136d9d3b06adad9873a17d3723cb8cf8/0_88_3500_2100/master/3500.jpg?width=1200&height=1200&quality=85&auto=format&fit=crop&s=0eb5a9e6b34e88b82b20a8cc8e7ea265

Best Regards, Rony Marounrony34 (talk) 17:49, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Not done: We can only use images that are verifiably "free", based on citing back to the license-owner of the image. Random things on file-sharing cites are not viable. Files in commons:Category:Demi Lovato are our current set of known possibilities. DMacks (talk) 18:12, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Hello, Marounrony34. Because of copyright laws, we can only use a photo that is in the public domain, or is freely available under an acceptable Creative Commons or similar copyleft license. A large majority of photos of living people that can be found online are restricted by copyright. Cullen328 (talk) 18:14, 22 April 2023 (UTC)

Voice

Lovato is also noted for her frequent use of the whistle register, and like Minnie Ripperton before her has the ability to enunciate lyrics in said register. 8.2.72.6 (talk) 14:50, 25 April 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for speedy deletion:

• Demi Lovato Interview 2022.png

You can see the reason for deletion at the file description page linked above. —Community Tech bot (talk) 05:23, 28 April 2023 (UTC)

pronound

Demi lovato no longer uses they/them 2600:4040:28C6:3C00:41EE:FDD7:CB47:AF8B (talk) 16:20, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

That is definitely not correct. Even the people arguing (in my view, mistakenly) that Lovato prefers she/her are not claiming that they have dropped they/them entirely. See discussion above in the section above. DanielRigal (talk) 18:10, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Pronouns

I know we've had this discussion several times and I hate to rehash this. However, in light of a new interview with Demi with the Spanish edition of GQ, I am once again questioning which set (they/them or she/her) to use across articles. Demi has said in this new interview that they adopted she/her again in addition to they/them (never as a replacement, unlike what was reported in some outlets) because "I constantly had to educate people and explain why I identified with those pronouns [they/them]. It was absolutely exhausting. [...] I just got tired." To me, this indicates a clear preference for they/them. For transparency, I will disclose that I am non-binary and use they/them pronouns myself, which may colour my interpretation. However, speaking to other Lovatics on social media showed me that I was not the only one in thinking this. What does everyone else think? The change has been made in both directions before so I don't believe it would be too complicated to adjust it again, but it's still a big change so I would like to reach consensus. Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 10:49, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

That makes perfect sense to me (and I'm cis). We should not be using anybody's second choice of pronouns, particularly not if they only adopted that second choice reluctantly. DanielRigal (talk) 12:14, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I think Lovato is indicating she wishes to go back to she/her. Academicskeptic9 (talk) 16:51, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

It sounded like the exact opposite to me based on the quote Bizarre Bizarre provides and reading the two articles only confirms that. The Billboard article deliberately alternates "she" and "they" throughout the piece, which is actually far less jarring to read than one might expect. That said, I wouldn't advocate that we do the same in our article as that would be bound to confuse at least a few readers. It is clear that Lovato is still openly nonbinary and still regards they/them as their first choice of pronouns hence it is both sensible and decent for us to use their first choice. Lovato is not indicating that they wish to go back exclusively using to she/her. They are indicating that they are tired of fighting over it and that they are no longer bothered to argue when people say she/her. DanielRigal (talk) 18:47, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

It seems that she/her is their auxiliary pronoun. Which means they/them is preferred over she/her. But at the same time, she also said that the reason why they went back using she/her (when they updated their prnoun) was because of feeling more feminine again, stating "I'm such a fluid person". So their feelings can be fluid. Many multipronominal folks would prefer not choosing one pronoun over the other, rather using both pronouns. But this would be inconsistent and Wikipedia seems to choose only one set of pronouns "for consistensy" (also for reader's accessibility and clarity). Wllace (talk) 21:54, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with this. If someone goes by multiple pronouns it's best to use whichever is most preferred. I also think that if they use any pronouns, even without a preference, they/them would be the most logical choice regardless since it's the most "neutral". Using the pronouns of a trans/gnc person that allign with their AGAB could imply that Wikipedia sees that those pronouns are the more "legitimate" choice, instead of the most neutral one, and is an especially worse look if the person specifically favours their AGAB pronouns the least. Weirdarpeggi (talk) 22:10, 14 June 2023 (UTC)

I completely agree that the page should be changed to they/them where she/her exists. Demi does not want to use she/her but feels she is tired of explaining it. AussieWikiDan ^(talk) 16:04, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

I strongly oppose this proposal. Pronouns should absolutely not be changed back to they/them. The Spanish GQ article says that Lovato chose she/her pronouns for the interview (and in case my translation of Spanish is shit, that pronoun choice by Lovato was verified by the Los Angeles Times). We cannot try and dissect Lovato's reasoning. She/her is her most recent expressed preference. Full stop. She said that they/them pronouns were exhausting. Why is that an invalid reason for her to choose to go back to she/her? IronGargoyle (talk) 19:34, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

To my knowledge, Spanish doesn't have widely accepted gender-neutral pronouns, so that explains going by she. There's no indication they have "[chosen] to go back to she/her". -- Maddy from Celeste (WAVEDASH) 19:49, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

This is not a Spanish lesson. Please read the following quote from the article: "No obstante, para realizar esta entrevista, Demi ha sido consultada y prefería que se empleara el pronombre femenino." According to Google, that translates to "However, to carry out this interview, Demi has been consulted and preferred that the feminine pronoun be used." How can that mean anything else than that Lovato's latest expressed preference is she/her? It does say earlier in the article that she would respond to a gender-neutral pronoun (I believe that this is "elle" in Spanish), but not that she would prefer it. IronGargoyle (talk) 20:01, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

It can, and does, mean that Demi's most recently stated preference in Spanish is the use of standard feminine pronouns over the neopronoun "elle". There are impactful enough differences between the two languages that we shouldn't assume Lovato's preference is portable. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 20:07, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

If someone expresses a feminine pronoun choice in one language it is common sense that the choice would extend to all languages. It is absurd to claim otherwise. There would need to be clear evidence that Lovato has a different pronoun choice in different languages. IronGargoyle (talk) 20:13, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

It's not really that absurd at all. Demi clearly said: "You only have two options, male and female, and I feel like none of that makes sense to me. I am conditioned to choose [to be treated as] a woman because there is no more [options]. I think this has to change. Hopefully over time there will be more options." This pretty much describes my experience living in a non-English-speaking country that forces me to use gendered pronouns by default because there's no other option in the local language, even though I use exclusively they/them in English. Firefangledfeathers is completely right to remark on the differences between English and Spanish, as it's actually not that unheard of to use or prefer different pronouns in different languages. Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 22:49, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

If Lovato hadn't endorsed the legitimacy of the gender neutral Spanish neopronoun "elle", I might agree with you. But she did endorse the word as a valid choice. She said that she would respond to it. Basically that it's a choice she would accept, but not her first choice. Lovato clearly preferred feminine pronouns be used in the article even though she acknowledged other options were available in Spanish. Your statement that you use they/them pronouns in English would be great evidence for pronoun selection if we were writing an article about you, but we're not. There is no reason to assume that Lovato's experiences or desires would be the same as yours. Lovato has not recently expressed a preference for they/them over she/her in English. We should assume pronoun consistency across languages unless given evidence to the contrary. Your direct quote from Lovato also leaves out the fact that she is talking about bathrooms and government forms, not pronouns. Chosen pronouns do not necessarily (and should not be required to) match other facets of someone's personal experience of gender. Finally, please don't cite Reddit. It is not a reliable source (and unavailable because of the blackout). IronGargoyle (talk) 02:58, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

The sentence you're referring to was talking about Demi's initial coming out in 2021 when they first changed their pronouns to they/them, followed by an explanation for Spanish-language readers that it is analogous to the Spanish neopronoun "elle". It's not related to anything Demi might have said in the 2023 interview about the legitimacy of "elle" in Spanish. Nonetheless, every single non-binary person (both Lovatic and not) whom I've spoken to about this interview outside of Wikipedia understands this interview to be expressing an obvious preference for they/them, at least in English. I still think Firefangledfeathers's argument stands and I wasn't using myself as an example because I somehow think the article is about me, but simply to explain why I felt that what Firefangledfeathers said made perfect sense.

Finally, I'm more than aware that Reddit isn't considered reliable and I'd be the first to remove it from mainspace. I take reliability seriously and have WP:RSPS bookmarked so of course I've seen Reddit on there. I wasn't using it as a "source" as much as a quick, convenient aggregation of direct accounts from non-binary people who use different pronouns in different languages because it sounded like you were saying the very concept itself was absurd, which was what I took issue with. Based on this reply, I may have misinterpreted that part and I apologise if that's the case. Text communication can be difficult. I would never put a Reddit "source" in an actual article, please be assured of that. 🙂 Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 14:08, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

There is a plain statement from Lovato that she prefers feminine pronouns, but you choose to intuit and read between the lines and figure out what you think she prefers? That's absurd and frankly insulting to Lovato's agency as a person. We must accept Lovato at her word. I will add just one more thing about language. If we follow your logic that we should assume different pronoun preferences for different languages is the default, how the hell do we write English Wikipedia articles about non-English speakers? Do we just stick our fingers in our ears and ignore their masculine, feminine, or non-binary pronoun choices just because they gave those choices in a language other than English? That's some Anglocentric bullshit right there. IronGargoyle (talk) 17:44, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

@IronGargoyle: If someone expresses a feminine pronoun choice in one language it is common sense that the choice would extend to all languages. It is absurd to claim otherwise. I take feminine or neuter pronouns in English, but exclusively feminine pronouns in grammatically gendered languages. Anecdotally, I think that's pretty common for multilingual nonbinary people. Haven't looked enough into the specifics to say whether it applies here, but you're very off-base to say consistency across languages is "common sense" and that the alternative is "absurd". -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 20:19, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm not saying there aren't exceptions, but Lovato has expressed a clear preference for feminine pronouns in Spanish. We don't have more recent evidence of a preference for gender neutral pronouns in another language. This is about where the burden of proof should lie when there is a clear gendered pronoun choice in one language but there could hypothetically be a different pronoun choice in another language. It's absurd to think that the most clearly-articulated choice of the subject shouldn't take precedence over a lack of evidence in English. IronGargoyle (talk) 21:03, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Yes, we should switch back to they/them. The change to she/her was based on interpretation of an ambiguously phrased comment of Lovato's, and this recent comment makes it clear that they were not expressing a preference for she/her over they/them. Also, this whole time, Lovato's instagram bio has continued to list "they/them/she/her" as their pronouns. We routinely assume that these are stated in order of preference. Firefangledfeathers (talk / contribs) 20:25, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

The Spanish GQ article is clear that Lovato's most recent pronoun choice is feminine. You can try to read from a crystal ball what the ordering of the Instagram pronouns means (and policy does not, to my knowledge, speak to ordering), but that's irrelevant because those were updated about a year ago. The Spanish GQ article is very recent. IronGargoyle (talk) 20:32, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

If she's willing to, we should use she/her. It's about readability. "They/them" to me means multiple people and makes an article unreadable.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 19:06, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I can't see this as a valid consideration. Singular they is something that has been used in English for centuries and it is already used in many other Wikipedia articles. People are able to read it. Even people who are not very familiar with it pick it up quite quickly. In fact, if you use singular they without, being too ostentatious about it, people often don't even notice that you did it. Sure, it seems a bit jarring until you get used to it but it is not unreadable. Of course, we should link to an explanation when we first use it, so that anybody who is confused can find out what is going on, but that's all we need to do. What we can't do is prioritise perceived readability over correctness. Should we go into all the science/religion/sports/cookery articles and replace all the specific scientific/religious/sporting/culinary terminology with more widely used but less accurate or appropriate terms in the name of readability? No, we use the most correct and appropriate terminology and link any terms that readers might need explained so that they can find out more if they need to.

So, is she "willing to"? Clearly she is only reluctantly willing. She is making a concession purely to avoid annoying conversations. That's not really willing.

Lets imagine that we have an article about a guy called Cuthbert. Cuthbert reluctantly makes it known that he doesn't really care if the annoying guy on the train calls him Bob because he doesn't want to waste his time arguing on the train. Are we going to change Cuthbert's article to say "Bob" just because Bob is a more readable name? I don't think so. DanielRigal (talk) 20:10, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Unreadable for me. My mind just won't accept it. People need to come up with another set of pronouns for those who are nonbinary.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:14, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

It isn't for us, as cis people, to tell nonbinary people "We don't like your terminology. You must make up something more to our tastes." Anyway. trust me. You will get used to it. You will see it elsewhere and gradually the novelty will wear off. --DanielRigal (talk) 20:21, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

@Vchimpanzee: People have, quite a few times, and the community has determined that those are the pronouns that are too confusing to use in articles. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 20:22, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I'm referring to something I hope happens in the future, not how it is now.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 13:20, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Then I'd refer you to WP:NOTFORUM. -- Tamzin^{[cetacean needed]} (she|they|xe) 14:17, 17 June 2023 (UTC)

Anyway, I've given my opinion on how the article should read and that's what we're here for. If people insist on they/them I can say the article would look better with neopronouns.— Vchimpanzee • talk • contributions • 20:04, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

The issue isn't readability. They/them is perfectly readable. The issue is that Lovato has recently expressed a clear preference for feminine pronouns. IronGargoyle (talk) 21:06, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I am really struggling to see how the sources provided can be interpreted in that way. DanielRigal (talk) 22:00, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Per the GQ article: "No obstante, para realizar esta entrevista, Demi ha sido consultada y prefería que se empleara el pronombre femenino." That translates to "However, to carry out this interview, Demi has been consulted and preferred that the feminine pronoun be used." IronGargoyle (talk) 22:17, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

Taken alone, that might support your interpretation but, when taken with the other sources, I read that as as a preference for that specific interview. DanielRigal (talk) 22:25, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

There is no other evidence. The only talking point is that Lovato was exhausted with explaining gender-neutral pronouns. Maybe that is the reason why Lovato shifted to prefer feminine pronouns. I am sure that seems like a great injustice to those who are trying to normalize they/them usage in society (a laudable goal if it respects the wishes of individuals). It is not up to us, however, to pick apart why Lovato made the choice to move toward feminine pronouns (if that is even the only reason). We must respect the choice of Lovato, whatever the reason(s). IronGargoyle (talk) 22:37, 16 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with many here: the pronouns in this article should be she/her. Academicskeptic9 (talk) 05:59, 18 June 2023 (UTC)

References

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 1 July 2023

She also does the Soul genre of music. 72.176.198.85 (talk) 09:40, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

•  Not done You do not provide a source for this information; also, the edit request function is for proposing a specific edit in a "change X text to Y text" format. 331dot (talk) 09:42, 1 July 2023 (UTC)

Influences

Mariah Carey, Minnie Rpierton & Joe Cocker 8.2.72.6 (talk) 21:50, 14 July 2023 (UTC)

Diminutive in the lead

Two people are in favour of it in the lead: Ben0006 and Barry Wom. There argument is the same per WP:HYPOCORISM: "Assume that most non-English hypocorisms are not familiar as hypocorisms to readers of the English Wikipedia, even if well-known in their native culture". But this is countered by the fact that Demi Lovato is an American whose first language is English, regardless of her mixed ancestry. So far two people are against the inclusion of Demi in the lead: myself and Bizarre Bizarre. Because of the simple reason that "Demi" is an obvious diminutive for Demetria, and both are not unusual names in America (remember her?). Can both sides now reach an agreement please? Kailash29792 (talk) 05:18, 5 June 2023 (UTC)

"Demi" is an obvious diminutive for Demetria.

I don't believe this is the case. Of the notable people listed at Demi, none except Lovato are actually named Demetria. Similarly, of the notable people listed at Demetria, only Lovato has shortened her name to Demi. This isn't a (for example) Robert/Bob situation, where most people called Bob have the given name Robert.

The name Demi may well derive from Demetria, but it's clearly uncommon for people named Demetria to use the shortened name. I can't be the only one out there who had no idea Demi was short for Demetria before Lovato came along. Barry Wom (talk) 10:20, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree with Barry Wom. I think it'd be better to have the diminutive in her name, in the lead–for all reasons mentioned above.

Ben | he/him (talk) 10:26, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I want to stress that this is absolutely not a WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS argument but simply my autistic brain trying to understand your argument. Although the Demi Moore example in the original message isn't perfect because she's said many times that her birthname is simply Demi, I believe the fact that several sources list her as "born Demetria Guynes" shows that there is some sort of established tradition of Demi as a nickname for Demetria. If people just assumed that Demi Moore was born Demetria (despite the fact that, according to her, this isn't the case), doesn't it mean that there's previous use? Sources clearly didn't begin listing Demi Moore's birthname as Demetria because of Demi Lovato, given that one of the sources listed on Demi Moore's article was published in 1991… before Demi Lovato was even born.

One of the other people listed at Demi is Demi Evans, whose full name is listed as Demetrious in her article; this is pretty similar to Demetria. Again, this isn't me saying "other stuff exists so you must agree with me", but I do think it shows an existing pattern and that, while it may not be as widespread as Robert and Bob, it clearly predates Demi Lovato. This is why I personally don't believe that the diminutive is particularly necessary in the Demi Lovato article. Bizarre Bizarre^{Talk modern to me} 13:55, 6 June 2023 (UTC)

I believe the fact that several sources list her as "born Demetria Guynes" shows that there is some sort of established tradition of Demi as a nickname for Demetria

I don't think it shows anything other than the fact that some sources knew that the name Demi was derived from Demetria and presumed (incorrectly) that Demetria was her given name. It doesn't suggest an "established tradition" of Demi being a nickname.

Demi Evans, whose full name is listed as Demetrious in her article; this is pretty similar to Demetria

I don't think this is a particularly strong argument either. "Demetrious" may be similar to "Demetria" (and have the same derivation) but it's obviously not exactly the same. Barry Wom (talk) 13:53, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

This is ridiculous, MOS:NICKNAME is a guideline, and we're just going to throw it out the window? Someone needs to open a {{RfC}} (I've never opened one and don't want to mess it up). I just don't understand why This article is immune to this guideline. - FlightTime (open channel) 16:58, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

MOS:QUOTENAME seems more applicable here. Using Demi as a hypocorism for Demetria is not that common in the English language, and the commonality of the hypocorism is the deciding factor for either NICKNAME or QUOTENAME. Also, as your removal was reverted citing the rough consensus here, even if you disagree WP:BRD would suggest that you should self-revert until there is a consensus otherwise. Sideswipe9th (talk) 17:08, 17 July 2023 (UTC)

Revamped

Demi Lovato will release a new album on September 15 titled Revamped, with new versions of songs already released. I'm in doubt if we should place it in the "Discography" section and how to classify it. Remix album? (According to Wikipedia an album consisting of remixes or rerecorded versions of an artist's earlier released material). Compilation album? (According to this source). Or studio album? Also Variety names it as a "collection". For me, I believe that we should not place it in the "Discography" section, and name it a remix album, taking into account the definition of Wikipedia. I am looking for other opinions. BePlus (talk) 16:16, 15 July 2023 (UTC)

I think it should be classified as a studio album since Demi rerecord all the old songs. Musiclover9790 (talk) 22:13, 29 August 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 11 September 2023

change demi lovato’s wikipedia photo to a most recent one of them at the howard stern interview (new york) on 11.09.2023 2A02:C7E:2827:E500:F822:6B6E:B4A3:1025 (talk) 22:27, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: see WP:Image Use Policy. If you believe this image meets licensing requirements, follow the instructions on that page to upload the picture, link to it here, and reopen the request then Cannolis (talk) 23:42, 11 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 12 September 2023

I want to edit semi protected pages. Ewwdw2 (talk) 21:32, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate.

This article is more than just semi-protected. If it were only semi, you would have the ability to edit it. DMacks (talk) 21:45, 12 September 2023 (UTC)

Extended-confirmed-protected edit request on 19 September 2023

- Change or remove picture of Kelly Clarkson - Change or remove picture of Christina Aguilera 164.160.123.131 (talk) 22:16, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

 Not done for now: why? and to what? Cannolis (talk) 23:13, 19 September 2023 (UTC)

Demi Lovato's pronouns are also they/them

she uses they/them too, as it's noticed on their social profiles, and I didn't see anywhere the use of this second set of pronouns Whydidntheychangethis (talk) 21:28, 23 October 2023 (UTC)