Talk:Con Colbert

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Conn Colbert[edit]

There is a slight problem with the name change and it is this: In Piaras F. Mac Lochlainn, Last Words, The Stationery Office (Dublin), ISBN 0 7076 0101 0, they have exact copies of his last letters in which he signed them all Conn. Therefore, that is how he spelled his name. However, most sources simply refere to him as Con. So I went with the name he used himself. Any thoughts and opinions are welcome, thanks --Domer48_'fenian' 21:18, 5 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As long as redirects remain, I have no strong opinions on these sorts of matters, although most writings I've seen on him seem to refer to him by his full name, Cornelius. However, if we're going by the names they used themselves, then Sean Mac Diarmada should be moved back to Sean MacDermott, as that is the name he seemed to use, at least in informal circumstances (p. 159 of Last Words, for example) as well as the name his friends seemed to use (Kathleen Clarke's memoirs, I believe, use that name). But again, I'm not terribly concerned. -R. fiend (talk) 00:38, 6 December 2008 (UTC)[reply]

So "Con Colbert Road" in Dublin gives his Gaelic first name as "Chonin", not Conn. We are safest with Cornelius ("Con") Colbert.78.17.52.218 (talk) 08:46, 29 September 2017 (UTC)[reply]

DOB not 1896?[edit]

Looking at the 1911 census Colbert is listed as being 21 years old, making him about 25 in 1916 and therefore probably born in 1890, not 1896 as the article states. There's a link to the census return here: http://www.census.nationalarchives.ie/reels/nai000137536/ (Colbert's name is abbreviated to Corn's, but its certainly him, the family is from Limerick and he's working as a bookkeeper in a bakery). Does anyone know of any other sources for Colbert's birth that might clear this up definitively? ANB (talk) 20:03, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Piaras F. Mac Lochlainn in Last Words, (The Stationery Office (Dublin), ISBN 0 7076 0101 0) on pg.144 has the dates 1888-1916. I'll check out some more sources and see what I can get. --Domer48_'fenian' 21:02, 1 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks Domer. It would be nice to clear this up. Having googled a bit, I unearthed this family genealogy site which has his DOB as 21 October 1888 (about half way down the page). http://www.geocities.com/wellesleywoman/colbert/d1.htm#c59 Its the first place I've seen a full DOB for him. There is no indication that the person who compiled the site is aware of his historical significance, so this may be original research which draws on birth/church records rather than the published accounts of his life. I'll drop them an email and ask what their source is. Happy hunting! ANB (talk) 00:41, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Hi ANB, while it's useful I don't think the problem will be with WP:OR but more with WP:V and WP:RS. It's a self published source and as such would be open to challanges. If you get a responce to your email it would provide a good starting point, and hey we have a date now if all goes well. --Domer48_'fenian' 00:52, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

True. Hopefully she got it from something verifiable. I think 1896 is out in any case. Colbert was working at St Enda's by 1910 cf. http://www.nli.ie/1916/pdf/9.6.pdf , and I'm not sure many schools employ gym instructors who are younger than most of the pupils! ANB (talk) 01:08, 2 February 2009 (UTC)[reply]

I have found Colbert's birth certificate which confirms he was born on 19 October 1888, it can be found in the General Registry Office in Dublin. I got a copy of his baptismal certificate from the Parochial House in Castlemahon. The census forms can be unreliable and he may have had reasons for changing his age or it could be a mistake by the person who filled the form.Twocentstungsten (talk) 23:39, 30 June 2011 (UTC)[reply]

Stephen Colbert[edit]

I've removed the reference to Stephen Colbert claiming to be a descendant. In the youtube clip that was cited as a reference, Stephen Colbert only refers to Conn Colbert when he is trying to demonstrate that the name 'Colbert' could plausibly be an Irish name. If Stephen Colbert has claimed descent (presumably indirect, since Conn Colbert had no children) another source is needed. ANB (talk) 00:02, 7 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Isn't it quite odd though that he just knew the name off the top of his head? Apollo The Logician (talk) 14:22, 30 October 2016 (UTC)[reply]

remarks not supported by source[edit]

Removed remarks not supported by source cited.

So Colbert 'refrained from smoking, drinking, and swearing, as well as from dancing during Lent'? Seriously, I'm sure Colbert and I have very little in common. Even so he remains an important historical figure in Ireland, however obscure. I marvel at those whose contempt for history is such that he becomes a figure of infantile fun and who take comfort in distancing themselves from him. Let's face it, 3 - 4 generations is the maximum distance we're talking about. You may feel safer feeling he's a comical character but he and his generation were the ones who defined the Ireland of today. You're free to find him or his beliefs comical; you're not free to magically wave away his influence on your life and your background and influences, so see the real joke and make fun of the real joke: you and Ireland today. Dduff442 (talk) 04:38, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Now, I'm not responsible for the edit in question, but I suspect it was actually a good faith edit WP:AGF which was not intended to poke fun at Colbert in any way. In the early 20th century devout Catholics simply didn't attend 'frivilous' entertainments during Lent - including dances. As far as I can see the edit merely points out that Colbert was devoutly religious, which, to my mind at any rate, is far from being a criticism. In fact, even if you are not religious, it points to considerable discipline and strength of character. However, it does certainly need a reference if it's going to be in the article. ANB (talk) 11:34, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

WTF? -R. fiend (talk) 13:56, 24 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well lent wasn't mentioned in the reference cited, which made me think it was vandalism. Don't edit drunk, kids!Dduff442 (talk) 09:30, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Well Lent was mentioned, and you removed it. --Domer48_'fenian' 12:56, 25 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Re-checking, I still find no reference to lent.

Incidentally, I would treat any .gov.ie reference relating to Irish history with caution. The article in question itself cites no sources and the author isn't even named. Note that the entry on Casement ignores the Black diaries. Bertie Ahern, in whose name the article referenced was prepared, was questioned directly about the Black diaries in the documentary The Ghost of Roger Casement and cast doubt on Casement's homosexuality without producing any evidence to support his point of view. This issue is not in serious dispute among professional historians in Ireland or elsewhere.

When it comes to their parties' founding heroes, both FF and FG politicians prefer to toe their traditional party lines than to engage in honest investigation.Dduff442 (talk) 00:21, 26 May 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Ann Horgan[edit]

Ann Horgan of Limerick's mothers name was Colbert. Her first cousin was Conn Colbert. Her Whole family is from Limerick.And u can check the census. Ann's Mothers name was Nora Colbert, and her mothers name was Margaret. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.40.35.0 (talk • contribs) 17:13, 4 April 2011 (UTC) [reply]