Talk:Coins of the South African pound

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Disselboom != "double shaft"[edit]

The following sentence in the article is incorrect in my opinion. "The Double Shaft coins are known by the nickname Disselboom, which is Afrikaans for Double Shaft." A "disselboom" is the word for the single shaft extending from a wagon for purposes of harnessing draft animals in pairs. It does not refer to the mechanism on a wagon made for draft animals in single file, which comprises of double shafts. The "Double Shaft" coins are of interest because the European minters struck the image of the ox wagon with double shafts, which was not the type of wagon commonly used in South Africa, but which was more common in Europe. I do not know what the actual nickname for this coin is, but it certainly can't be "disselboom", and if it is, it is incorrect. Another type of South African coin which was also struck in Europe bore the image of a little bushveld tree. The Europeans thought that the tree was too "boring" and added round fruits to it to spruce it up, even though no indigenous South African trees bear fruit like those depicted on the coin. 196.211.98.154 (talk) 13:23, 2 June 2009 (UTC)[reply]

You are quite right - Disselboom != "double shaft". I am in the process of rewriting this article. Martinvl (talk) 17:46, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Try to get the pictures to scale[edit]

On the main article, there are some pictures of the old South African penny which are on a scale that is most misleading. Everybody in the UK, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, and the Republic of Ireland who remembers those old 'coppers' remembers a large coin. The scale used ought to be 1:1. As it stands, the old pennies are depicted as being virtually the same size as the farthings. This is very misleading. David Tombe (talk) 13:41, 21 July 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Kruger Brass Tokens and Popularity of Kruger coins in Scotland[edit]

Do these two sections have a place in this article? Both are poorly written and unreferenced. Martinvl (talk) 20:48, 6 December 2009 (UTC)[reply]

Griqua coinage[edit]

I have reinstated the section on the Griqua Coinage. The booklet issued by Barclays Bank "From Barter to Barclays" considers then as coins and Barclays Bank is a reputable name in banking. Martinvl (talk) 18:24, 9 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Strachan Tokens not Griqua money: Strachan & Co trade tokens were issued by a trading store and not by the Griqua authority. Griqua coinage were issued in 1815/1816. This article deals with South African government issued specie. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.133.239.133 (talk) 11:58, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]
I have
  • Merged the previous comment into the diuscussion where it belongs
  • Reinstated the text about the Griqua coinage.
Please lets reach a consensus before you again delete something that does not corresponf to your own point of view. Martinvl (talk) 14:02, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The suggestion "first indigenous currency" is incorrect. The first indigenous currency was the Griqua coinage issued by the London Missionary Society in 1815/1816 in Griqualand West. This not my point of view, but published in numerous numismatic articles.--41.133.239.133 (talk) 15:24, 10 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.133.239.133 (talk) 14:58, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

References can be found in following publications:

Banking and Currency Development in South Africa - Prof EHD Arndt, The Coinage of Griqualand by H Alexander Parsons in The Numismatic Circular, The Coinage of Griqualand by Prof FK Mitchel - Antiques in South Africa,--41.133.239.133 (talk) 15:21, 10 June 2012 (UTC) The Mission at Griquatown - Karel Schoeman--41.133.239.133 (talk) 15:22, 10 June 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.133.239.133 (talk) 15:12, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

This is something on which I am not an authority and as I do not have ready access to the article that you cited, I cannot comment. If you have access to this papers, it would be appropriate to write it up as part of this artcile and at the same time to amend the text of the Strachan tokens to provide consistency across the article, but don't just delete the text concerning the Strachan tokens - correct it! Martinvl (talk) 21:57, 10 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

The dying fantasy of the Griqua coinage[edit]

The Griquatown tokens sent to Griquatown in the about 1817 were a complete failure. [1] Not one token ever circulated.

In summary:

The resident missionary William Anderson there at the time makes no reference to them[2]

Secondly, Griquatown was a ghost town when the tokens arrived c 1817.(Source: "Weapons of Peace" by Peter Anderson - first published 1995).

There was no store in which to trade the tokens, not one reference is made to the Griquatown tokens in any of the records of the London Missionary Society's detailed record of assets (which include ivory, Rijksdaalder and goats).[3] , The suggestion by Parsons that they circulated, and those who since parroted his research, has been discarded by all mainstream coin experts including Spink and Son (who originally contracted Parsons to research the tokens in 1927); Krause Coin Catalogues; Stanley Gibbon as well as Morgan Carroll in the latest South African Coin catalogue [4] Krause now recognize the Griquatown tokens as fantasy coins.[5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.96.54.86 (talk • contribs) 04:44, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.tokencoins.com/summation.pdf |title=Proof that the Griquatown tokens never circulated can be seen at this link.
  2. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.tokencoins.com/petera1.htm |title=Peter Anderson, author of the 1995 book "Weapons of Peace" about William Anderson notes not one reference is ever made by the missionary about the tokens.
  3. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.tokencoins.com/helm.htm |title=Transcript of Helm's comments in the London Missionary Society records.
  4. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.coinsrsa.com |title=The latest 2016 South African Coin Catalgoue.
  5. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.tokencoins.com/summation.pdf |title=A single page PDF that exposes the Griquatown token fantasy.

Strachan and Co currency (S&Co) tokens[edit]

The Strachan tokens were first issued in 3d, 6d, 1/- and 2/- in 1874 and are South Africa's first widely circulating indigenous currency.

The son of Donald Strachan, Douglas Strachan, notes the S&Co tokens were issued not long after 1870[1] In this same diary note Douglas Strachan notes that the S&Co tokens were "accepted everywhere". The area of circulation from the stores at Umzimkhulu quickly spread to a large area including Kokstad about 100kms to the south. Ken Strachan, Douglas Strachan's son, told Scott Balson in the late 1970s that the S&Co tokens were launched on the day the company opened its doors in 1874.

In 1874 the area known as East Griqualand was an independent state run by the Griqua and one of the directors of Strachan and Co, Brisley, was the state's parliamentary secretary.[2] This fact is confirmed by the Standard Bank in Kokstad who note that in 1878 the only "money" used in Kokstad was the S&Co tokens.[3]

The S&Co token preceded the Kruger coinage by eighteen years making them the first indigenous coins widely used in South Africa.

In recent months there have been attempts by a coin dealer to discredit this and a detailed expose of his fraud can be seen at this link.[4]

The information supporting the fact that the S&Co were South Africa's first widely circulating indigenous currency is overwhelming.[5] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.96.54.86 (talk • contribs) 05:08, 20 December 2016 (UTC)[reply]

References

  1. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.tokencoins.com/sandco/1874.jpg |title=Screendump of certified diary note by Douglas Strachan, certified by his son Ken Strachan, confirms the S&Co first released in early 1870s.
  2. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.tokencoins.com/nortje.htm#2 |title=Confirming the S&Co were first released in 1874.
  3. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.tokencoins.com/Kokstad125.pdf |title=The Standard Bank 125 year celebration of doing business in Kokstad - published 2003 - where they confirm the S&Co tokens were used in Kokstad about 100km from Umzimkhulu.
  4. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.tokencoins.com/nortje.htm |title=Exposing the attempt by Nortje trying to to rewrite numismatic history in South Africa.
  5. ^ {{cite web |url=http://www.tokencoins.com/summation1.pdf |title=Two page PDF summarizing the evidence that the S&CO tokens were South Africa's first widely circulating indigenous currency.

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