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This party is included in the category protestant political party, because it is classified as such in Paul Freston (2004) Protestant Political Parties Aldershot (Ashgate), who gives two reasons: 1) the party has ties with the methodist church 2) bases it self around protestant political principles. I think they are convincing. C mon 11:25, 9 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
well your source is frankly doesn't know what is talking about, Adi Koila was a senior member of the party and is a Roman Catholic. The party had several Catholic members. No one in Fiji has heard of Paul Freston, i don't think he is a convincing source at all. --Xorkl000 01:12, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
"I think that it would be true to say that nobody else has Paul Freston's grasp of this complex and growing field" (the field of protestant political parties) - David Martin Professor of Sociology LSE; Paul Freston holds the Byker Chair in Christian Perspectives on Political, Social and Economic Thought at Calvin College, Grand Rapids Michigan and is Professor of Sociology at the Federal University of Sao Carlos Brazil. He has written scientific books, journal articles and book chapters on political protestantism.
Furthermore the protestant/catholic categories are not exclusive, see for instance the German Christian Democratic Union, which is categorized as both.
if thats the case, whats the use of the category? If its both catholic and protestant, thats 90% of the christian population!
Finally its not the author who has to be convincing, the external source needs to be reliable and verifiable. C mon 02:34, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
VLV was not a Protestant party, pure and simple, i know i was here. Freston wasn't. Find a source that demonstrates a knowledge of FIJIAN politics (as opposed to some foreign generalist) and i think we could accept this categorisation --Xorkl000 05:55, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
First off, this is an encyclopedia, not a collection of personal experiences, intuition is nothing without references.
agreed, but if something is obviously false then i'm certainly going to weigh in. --Xorkl000 10:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Second, Freston bases himself on two other authors: Virginia Horscroft, who specialized in Fijan politics and Charles Forman, who specialized in Christianity in the Pacific Islands.
another two people i've never heard of. If we were talking about people like Jonathan Frankel, known and respected in this field then you'd have something here. --Xorkl000 10:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Third there is no rule on wikipedia that only external reliable verifiable sources are excepted which are not written by foreign generalists. C mon 12:20, 11 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
agreed, but some sources are recognised in this field, some are credible, others are not.
to summarise my position on this issue:
the VLV was not a purely protestant party, this is obviously shown by its senior catholic members
to categorise it as both a catholic AND protestant party is useless, given that Fiji an almost non-existent eastern christian community, "Catholic AND Protestant" reduces to "Christian". Categories are meant to illuminate and separate things - this sort of category does neither.
I concede your point on references, even though i see them as unqualified dilettantes in this field, they are published authorities. However i believe this does not change the validity of the two points i make above --Xorkl000 10:29, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
Unless you provide references, those factoids are just unreferenced original research by a "diletant" without publications. I would consider the source I provided recognized in the field of protestant political parties. C mon 20:25, 12 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
The fact Adi Koila was a senior member of the VLV and that she is Catholic is very easy to find references for, her religion is not mentioned at Koila Nailatikau but that easily fixed and is now officially on my to do list. A bit of trudging through Ratu Mara's memoirs should do the trick.
My belief that if you can categorise a party as both Catholic and Protestant, that the resulting category is too broad to impart any useful information, is just something that seems logical to me.
Finally expertise in the field of protestant political parties is not the relevant expertise needed here, expertise in the politics and history of Fiji is - and the names that are respected here Jon Frankel, Brij Lal, Steve Ratuva, etc. --Xorkl000 03:53, 13 March 2007 (UTC)[reply]
