Talk:Charles Edward Stuart/GA1

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Reviewer: Unlimitedlead (talk · contribs) 00:29, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Hello, I am happy to review this article for GA status. Please keep in mind that I am a very particular reviewer, so this process may take days, or even weeks. Please reach out if you have any questions or concerns. I look forward to working with you! Unlimitedlead (talk) 00:29, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]

First round of comments: PLEASE INDICATE WHETHER THE ISSUES HAVE BEEN RESOLVED BY PLACING A CHECK MARK:  Done

  • Maybe try to increase the size of the image in the lead. The caption could also be shortened.
Both  Done Coldupnorth (talk) 09:13, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • The last sentence of the lead should be corrected: His life and the once possible prospects of a restored Stuart monarchy have left an enduring historical legend that continue to have a legacy today. → His life and the once possible prospects of a restored Stuart monarchy have left an enduring historical legend that continues to have a legacy today. (plural)
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 08:33, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation in lead: This resulted in Charles landing by ship on the West Coast of Scotland leading to the Jacobite rising of 1745. This sentence should have a comma between "Scotland" and "leading."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 08:33, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation in lead: On his return Charles lived briefly in France before he was exiled in 1748 under the terms of the Treaty of Aix-la-Chapelle. This sentence should have a comma between "return" and "Charles."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 08:33, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Diction: He had a number of mistresses and affairs but finally married Princess Louise of Stolberg-Gedern in 1772. The word "affairs" implies that Charles Edward Stuart was having a relationship outside of his marriage, but the sentence goes on to say that he was married later.
 Done 'Affairs' removed. Coldupnorth (talk) 18:10, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry for being picky, but the lead image suddenly got too large. Would you mind adjusting it to 285px? Unlimitedlead (talk) 02:52, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Not a problem, changed it to 285px. Coldupnorth (talk) 18:29, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • should be added as a signature in the infobox.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 07:52, 2 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Childhood and education: 1720–1734


  • Grammar: "Historians differ as to his presided over his baptism ceremony; Kybett reports that it was presided over by Pope Clement..." Please fix the sentence: the grammar makes no sense.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 09:19, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clarity: "Regardless, he was given the names Charles for his great-grandfather, Edward after Edward the Confessor, Louis for the King of France..." Please specify who Louis is. It could be referring to the King of France at the time, but my impression was that the name was derived from Saint Louis.
 Comment: The Douglas reference only says 'the King of France' and does not specify which King. I've checked four other sources but could find no comment to confirm which King. It could be Saint Louis, Louise XIV (friend of James Stuart) or Louis XV (King at time of Charles birth). Coldupnorth (talk) 18:10, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If that's what we can get, that's what we'll take, I suppose. Thank you for checking. Unlimitedlead (talk) 21:45, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Stay focused on the topic: "Charles was the son of the Old Pretender, James Francis Edward Stuart (himself son of the exiled Stuart King James II and VII), and Maria Clementina Sobieska, a Polish noblewoman (the granddaughter of John III Sobieski, most famous for the victory over the Ottoman Turks in the 1683 Battle of Vienna)."
    The bolded section should be trimmed or removed from the article: it is not particularly related to Charles Edward Stuart.
 Done Now reads "Maria Clementina Sobieska, a Polish noblewoman (the granddaughter of John III Sobieski)." Coldupnorth (talk) 09:19, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Diction: "Charles Edward's grandfather, James II of England and Ireland and VII of Scotland, ruled the countries from 1685 to 1688."
    "Countries" could be replaced with "kingdoms," but that is up to you.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:10, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Since the exile of James and the Act of Settlement, the "Jacobite Cause" had striven to return the Stuarts to the thrones of England and Scotland, which had been united in 1603 under James VI and I, with the parliaments joined by the Acts of Union in 1707 as the United Kingdom of Great Britain."
    "United Kingdom of Great Britain" is not a correct term, use Kingdom of Great Britain.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:10, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: "However, Charles was instructed in a regime of exercise and dancing to help improve his constitution which strengthened his legs by later years." This sentence should have a comma between "constitution" and "which."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 09:19, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Multiple errors: "While several of the household were Protestant and there were initial concerns over his religious education by the Pope, Charles was raised as a catholic."
    • What does "several" refer to? Staff? Be more specific.
    • "there were initial concerns over his religious education by the Pope" should be reworded to make it more clear. Was the pope the one who has concerns?
    • I believe that "catholic" should be capitalized.
 Done Move the text to align with the education information. Now reads "Charles Edward's governor was the Protestant James Murray, Jacobite Earl of Dunbar. While the Pope had raised initial concerns over Charles's religious education under a Protestant governor, James agreed that Charles would be raised as a Catholic." Coldupnorth (talk) 18:16, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Travels in Europe: 1734–1745


  • "Prince Charles Edward Stuart. Eldest son of Prince James Francis Edward Stuart (painted by William Mosman, around 1750)"
    This caption could be shortened to "Portrait by William Mosman, around 1750"
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:16, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: "In January 1735, shortly after his fourteenth birthday, Charles mother Clementina died of scurvy." This sentence should have an apostrophe on the word "Charles," since it is clearly a possessive noun.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:16, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: "In 1737 James sent his son on a tour through the main Italian cities, to complete his education as a prince and man of the world." This sentence should have a comma between "1737" and "James."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation and capitalization: "The Italian tour was a shock for Charles who had believed he would be welcomed as a Royal Prince." This sentence should have a comma between "Charles" and "who." Additionally, "Royal Prince" does not need to be capitalized in this context.
 Done Both amended Coldupnorth (talk) 18:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation and capitalization: "Instead most European courts, would only receive him as the 'Duke of Albany' (an historic title adopted by Scottish Royals in the 14th century)." This sentence should NOT have a comma between "courts" and "would." Instead, there should be a comma after Instead." Additionally, "royals" does not need to be capitalized in this context.
 Done All amended Coldupnorth (talk) 18:20, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Diction and capitalization: "While Catholic, many European States wished to avoid antagonising Britain, the only exception being Venice." Changing "Though" to "Although" of "Despite being" would be much more clear. Additionally, "states" does not need to be capitalized in this context.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:35, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grammar: "By the time he had reached 20, he had become a notable member of Rome society and developed a fondness for alcohol and fine clothes, often in excess of his allowance." "Rome" is not an adjective, so it cannot describe "society." Please adjust accordingly.
 Done Amended to "By the time he had reached 20, he had become a notable member of upper-class society in Rome and had developed a fondness for alcohol and fine clothes, often in excess of his allowance." Coldupnorth (talk) 18:35, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grammar/Clarity: "His father planned to rely on foreign aid in his attempts to restore himself to the British and Irish thrones, and the idea of rebellion unassisted by invasion or by support of any kind from abroad was one which was pursued by Charles Edward as he grew older." This sentence is very confusing grammatically. To be honest, I still have no idea what it is trying to say, but the impression I got was that Charles Edward's approach to invading Britain was different than that of his father. If that is the case, please use a contrasting word like "but" to make this clear.
 Done Amended to "His father continued to rely on foreign aid in his attempts to restore himself to the British and Irish thrones. However, Charles became increasingly supportive of the idea of rebellion unassisted by invasion or by support of any kind from abroad." Coldupnorth (talk) 18:35, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Hyperlink issues: "On 23 December 1743, owing to his limited ability to travel to Britain, James named his son Charles Prince Regent, giving him the authority to act in his name." The hyperlink "Prince Regent" redirects to George IV of the United Kingdom, which makes no sense in this article. Either find a more appropriate hyperlink, or just do not link anything.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:48, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Continuity and Punctuation: "However, neither the French Government or King Louis XV had officially invited Charles.[37] This would prove particularly problematic for the French authorities as they sought to balance the likely impact of supporting the Stuart restoration.[38] By February, the French government had agreed to support a planned invasion of England hoping to remove British forces from the War of the Austrian Succession." These sentences do not flow logically. If the French government did not wish to support the Stuarts, then why are they doing so three sentences later? Additionally, there should be a comma between "England" and "hoping."
 Done Agreed. Removed the sentence concerning actions of the French authorities Coldupnorth (talk) 18:48, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: "However, when he could no longer afford the rent on the house in Montmartre, the Arch-bishop of Cambrai agreed to lend him his country estate near Paris." "Archbishop," not "Arch-bishop."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:48, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grammar: "Charles remained there until January 1745, when following repeated attempts by the French to encourage him to leave the Paris region, he withdrew to the country house of Anne, Duchess of Berwick in Soissons." The grammar of this sentence should be corrected: its present state is somewhat confusing.
 Done Amended wording for clarity Coldupnorth (talk) 18:48, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Preparations and journey to Scotland: 1745


  • Writing style: "In Rome and Paris, Charles had seen many supporters of the Stuart cause, and he was aware that in every key European court the Jacobites were represented." Consider changing the wording of this sentence. It sounds stiff; I am not exactly sure if the later half of the sentence makes sense, but here is a suggestion for the rewording:
    "In both Rome and Paris, Charles met numerous supporters of the Stuart cause; he was aware that there were Jacobites representatives in every key European court."
 Done Thank you for the suggested rewording Coldupnorth (talk) 18:52, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Following conversations with Irish and Scottish exiles such as Sir Thomas Sheridan who advocated the strength of Jacobite support in Scotland..." → "Following conversations with Irish and Scottish exiles such as Sir Thomas Sheridan who assured him of the strength of the Jacobite movement in Scotland..."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:52, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Diction: "The ultimate aim was to bring forth a rebellion to place his father on the thrones of Great Britain and Ireland." → "The ultimate aim was to instigate a rebellion that would place his father on the thrones of Great Britain and Ireland." (or something to that effect)
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:52, 30 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Encouraged by the French victory in May 1745 at the Battle of Fontenoy, Charles and his party set sail on the 5th July for Scotland." → "Encouraged by the French victory in May 1745 at the Battle of Fontenoy, Charles and his party set sail on 5 July for Scotland." (assuming this article is in British English)
  • Grammar: "During the voyage north, the Elisabeth fought an action with HMS Lion..." Fought an action? What does that mean? Please reword.
 Done New text added and additional reference to explain the sea battle. Coldupnorth (talk) 18:23, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Early stages and victory at Prestonpans: 1745


  • Punctuation: "On 19 August he raised his father's standard at Glenfinnan and gathered a force large enough to enable him to march towards Edinburgh." There should be a comma between "August" and "he."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:23, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: "Charles reached Perth on 4 September where his forces were joined by more sympathisers, including Lord George Murray." There should be a comma between "September" and "where."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:23, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: "On 14 September Charles and his forces took Falkirk and Charles stayed at Callendar House where he persuaded the Earl of Kilmarnock to join him." There should be a comma between "September" and "Charles."
  • Punctuation: "Charles progress on to Edinburgh was helped by the action of the British leader, General Sir John Cope, who had marched to Inverness, leaving the south country undefended." "Charles" not having an apostrophe makes this sentence give off a completely different meaning. Additionally, "on to" is one word: "onto."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:23, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Repetition: "On 21 September 1745, Charles and his forces defeated Cope's army, the only government army in Scotland, at the Battle of Prestonpans..." "1745" is not necessary: the section is called "Early stages and victory at Prestonpans: 1745."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 18:23, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Repetition: "Charles was said to have been only 50 paces from the front-line of the battle[74] and he later expressed regret that the victory involved killing his own subjects." The word "regret" was used just a few sentences prior. Maybe replace it with a synonym like "remorse."
 Done Replaced with "remorse" Coldupnorth (talk) 18:28, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Significantly, it was reported during the battle that Charles and Lord Murray had argued with each other over the disposition of forces." The word "significantly" sounds out of place here. I don't think it's necessary, but you may keep it if you feel strongly about it.
 Done Fair point, I've removed the word as arguably no more significant than other issues eg strength of government forces, lack of support from France, etc. Coldupnorth (talk) 18:28, 31 August 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Invasion of England: 1745–1746


  • "Following the battle at Prestonpans, morale was high and Charles returned to Edinburgh holding court in Holyrood Palace." → Morale was high following the battle at Prestonpans, and Charles returned to Edinburgh, holding court at Holyrood Palace.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 20:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • "Jacobite morale was further boosted in mid-October when the French landed supplies of money and weapons, together with an envoy, which seemed to validate claims of French backing." → Jacobite morale was further boosted in mid-October when the French landed with supplies of money and weapons, together with an envoy, which seemed to validate claims of French backing.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 20:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grammar: "By November, Charles was marching south at the head of approximately 6,000 men." → By November, Charles was marching south at the head of an army numbering approximately 6,000 men.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 20:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Date formatting: "Having taken Carlisle on the 10th November, his army progressed as far as Swarkestone Bridge in Derbyshire." → Having taken Carlisle on the 10 November, his army progressed as far as Swarkestone Bridge in Derbyshire.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 20:33, 7 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grammar: "Charles admitted he had not heard from the English Jacobites since leaving France; this meant he lied when claiming otherwise and his relationship with some of the Scots became irretrievably damaged." → Charles admitted he had not heard from the English Jacobites since leaving France despite claiming the contrary; this caused his relationship with some of the Scots became irretrievably damaged.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 21:13, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Date formatting: "Charles and his forces then reached Glasgow on the 26 December where they rested until 3 January 1746." → Charles and his forces then reached Glasgow on 26 December, where they rested until 3 January 1746.
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 21:13, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grammar: "The decision was made to lay siege to Stirling Castle however while the town surrendered..." I do not have the sources (books) to research this event, but this sentence's grammar makes no sense. Please consult some sources and reword the highlighted section.
 Done Text reworded for clarity. Coldupnorth (talk) 21:22, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
There should be a comma between "However" and "while" in your edit. Unlimitedlead (talk) 00:05, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Thanks. Apologies, my grammar knowledge is poor. Coldupnorth (talk) 07:58, 9 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation and Grammar: "A failure to take the castle however, resulted in abandoning the siege and the Jacobite forces moving northward to Crieff then Inverness." → A failure to take the castle, however, resulted in the abandonment of the siege and the Jacobite forces moving northward to Crieff then Inverness. (comma between "castle" and "however")
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 21:23, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: "With a halt in operations until the weather improved, Charles forces then rested at Inverness..." There should be an apostrophe in "Charles."
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 21:22, 8 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]


Culloden and return to France: 1746


  • Punctuation: "Charles ignored the advice of general Lord George Murray and chose to fight on flat, open, marshy ground where his forces were exposed to superior government firepower." There should be a comma between "ground" and "where." Unlimitedlead (talk) 14:52, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 17:03, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clarity: "He commanded his army from a position behind his lines, where he could not see what was happening." Please take a look at the source material and reword this sentence for clarity. For ease, please paste the new sentence here so I can take a look. Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:35, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Reworded as 'To ensure his safety, his officers requested that Charles command his army from a position behind the front lines which resulted in him being unable to gain a clear view of the battlefield.' Coldupnorth (talk) 20:59, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Grammar: "The Jacobite attack was uncoordinated, charging into withering musket fire and grapeshot fired from the cannons, and it met with little success." There should be the word "was" between "and" and "it." Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:37, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 20:55, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clarity: "The Jacobites broke through the bayonets of the redcoats in one place, but they were shot down by a second line of soldiers, and the survivors fled." The phrase "in one place" is somewhat confusing. Please take a look at the citation and change the wording accordingly. For ease, please paste the new sentence here so I can take a look. Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:39, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Reworded as 'In the center, the Jacobites reached the bayonets of the redcoats but they were shot down by a second line of soldiers. The remaining Jacobite survivors in the front line then fled.' Coldupnorth (talk) 21:06, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent. Thank you. Unlimitedlead (talk) 21:26, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Punctuation: "However, the north-eastern regiments, as well as Irish and Scots regulars in the second line retired in good order, allowing Charles and his personal retinue to escape northwards." There should be a comma between "line" and "retired." Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:40, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Coldupnorth (talk) 20:55, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Clarity: "Charles hid first in the moors of Scotland and then made a flight to the Islands, always barely ahead of the government forces." What are "the Islands?" I could not tell when reading the article. Please adjust for clarity. Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:44, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
 Done Your comment got me thinking that this section needed more detail. The period was several months in length and so have added further information about his location/journey in evading capture. The text now reads: 'Charles hid first in the moors of the Highlands of Scotland and then made a flight to the Hebrides, always barely ahead of the government forces. Many Highlanders aided him during his escape, and none of them betrayed him for the £30,000 reward. Charles was assisted by supporters such as the pilot Donald Macleod of Galtrigill and Captain Con O'Neill who took him to Benbecula. From 16 April until 28 June, Charles travelled through Benbecula, South Uist, North Uist, Harris and the Isle of Lewis. On 28 June, Charles was aided by Flora MacDonald who helped him sail to the Isle of Skye by taking him in a boat disguised as her maid "Betty Burke". Charles remained on Skye until July when crossed back to the mainland. With the aid of a few loyal servants and local supporters, Charles hid from government forces in the western Grampian Mountains for several weeks. He ultimately evaded capture and on 19 September left the country aboard the French frigate L'Heureux. The Prince's Cairn marks the traditional spot on the shores of Loch nan Uamh in Lochaber from which he made his final departure from Scotland.' Coldupnorth (talk) 21:34, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sounds great! I will review the added text on a later read-through of the article. Please keep in mind that I will be doing this several times in order to catch any mistakes that may have slipped through, especially from revisions made for the GA review. I suspect that in total, there will be a dozen or so read-throughs, some oriented towards the content itself, and others like this one, which will look at simple errors like grammar and punctuation. Unlimitedlead (talk) 23:11, 10 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you, it is important to make sure we get the grammar and punctuation correct. While I understand the need to read the article itself several times, I had not realised you would be returning again and again to different levels of detail with a different focus each time and therefore new comments. While I have experience of the GA process in the past, I am quite concerned about how comprehensive this review is going to become. While it's great for the article, it is not a GA process. If you feel the article is needing so much work, then it really should be a fail or a hold. We are some 11 days in now and I feel like this GA could go on for months. I appreciate all your efforts so far but if that's the case, I don't think the GA process is working here. If you want to work together on the article to get it to GA if you think it isn't there, that's something I'd be happy to do further with you. For now it seems way more than the process for comparable GAs and I am quite concerned. Thanks Coldupnorth (talk) 07:58, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would also add that if the article is on hold, then its generally 7 days for improvements. Please see Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions If you think it's a failure that would be a shame especially as I am here ready to take it to GA now for 2 weeks. Coldupnorth (talk) 08:03, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
You are right: I am only halfway through this article and there are tons of errors ranging from clarity to grammar. I will go ahead and put this review on hold so you have an opportunity to revise it. Thank you for voicing your concerns. I was not aware that you felt that way. Unlimitedlead (talk) 16:28, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Sorry, I need you to clarify exactly the changes you like by placing the article on hold. If you have tons of errors ranging from clarity to grammar then you need to specify these as part of the process. You then either fail the article outright or put it on hold, giving me time to work through them. Can you review the Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions please and then act accordingly. Please use the 6 good article criteria to assist you. You can also ask for a second opinion, especially if you are unsure of the format of a GA review. Otherwise, just fail the article please and let me know the reasons why. I will then action any comments you have and then renominate again. Thanks Coldupnorth (talk) 16:41, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
Reading through the article, the prose and content itself seems to be alright. The only glaring issue I see so far is the concerning amount of mistakes concerning grammar, clarity, and punctuation. As seen in the comments above, many sentences contain such errors. Unfortunately, due to time constraints (in real life), I am unable to read through the article and manually point out every single minor error in one sitting. The only thing I can say is to write carefully. The content is lovely, but the execution is poor. If there is anything else I can assist you with, please reach out. This is my first GA review, so I am still unexperienced. Unlimitedlead (talk) 17:33, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi Unlimitedlead, thank you for coming back to me quickly on this and for all your efforts so far. I will look at the last few sections and see if I can improve some of the prose, however, I think the next best step is to put in a request at Wikipedia:Cleanup for someone who is able to assist with improving the spelling, grammar, etc. Please leave it on hold for a while and hopefully someone is willing to assist. Coldupnorth (talk) 17:50, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
That sounds wonderful. Thank you for your consistent diligence and politeness. I apologize for any inconvenience my inexperience has caused you. As always, please let me know if there is anything I can do for you, and just give me ping when the article is ready for review again. Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:03, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I would advise closely working and communicating with the user working on the cleanup. Since this is a historical biography, said user is unlikely to have the sources and knowledge required to accurately correct the article. Unlimitedlead (talk) 18:07, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, there is no guarantee that another user helps with the cleanup so I've made several edits to the remaining sections this evening. I've used some of your previous comments as indicators as well as looking at the manual of style in terms of improvements to grammar, punctuation and the general prose. I would greatly appreciate if you could look at the later life section please and let me know if my changes have helped? Coldupnorth (talk) 21:36, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The section looks significantly improved, but keep in mind that if a sentence has two clauses that are joined by a coordinating conjunction, there should be a comma before said conjunction.
Example: "On his return to France, he was initially received warmly by King Louis but as far as obtaining additional military or political assistance was concerned, his efforts proved fruitless."
  • There should be a comma before "but."
Unlimitedlead (talk) 21:45, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I will take another look if you'd like, just ping me. Unlimitedlead (talk) 21:49, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, I think I have caught most of them now, please do take another look. Coldupnorth (talk) 22:14, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
I have just read through the section, and it is absolutely stunning. The prose, grammar, and punctuation appear to be correct. This section of the article should be a model for the rest of it. I will say, however, that there are several instances of "Charles" needing an apostrophe (example: In the sentence "In the years that followed, the Pope awarded Louise half of Charles papal pension, and Charles international reputation was much damaged," there should be an apostrophe in "Charles.") Other than that, I'd say you've vastly improved the issues I pointed out. I will continue to leave the article on hold so you can flesh things out and correct the punctuation issues I just stated. Thank you for your diligent work. Unlimitedlead (talk) 22:49, 11 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Hi, that's great, thank you for all your support with this. The user Metropolitan90 has kindly added the apostrophes. I've made some other changes too. Please let me know if there is anything outstanding or if you are happy it is now at GA standard. Coldupnorth (talk) 08:03, 12 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I will give notes tonight/tomorrow and finish up the review by the end of the week. Unlimitedlead (talk) 14:24, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Per Wikipedia:Good article nominations/Instructions#Reviewing, I will probably just edit any remaining grammatical and punctuation errors myself to avoid more trouble for you. You can expect all such issues to be resolved by tomorrow night (EST) at the latest and for the GA Review to be finished by Saturday evening (EST), although I will likely finish it sooner. Unlimitedlead (talk) 19:01, 13 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Excellent, thank you for all your time and effort in getting this article to GA. Coldupnorth (talk) 07:44, 14 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
No problem! I have just done a thorough read-through of the article and corrected all mistakes I see. By Saturday night, I will have done so again and leave my final remarks. I am confident that the article can be promoted to GA status; in the meanwhile, please review your sources and add citations to sentences/sections that lack them. The more of them, the better, but please don't overdo it. Once again, thank you so much for your patience and hard work. I look forward to consulting with you again in a few days. Unlimitedlead (talk) 00:26, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Thank you. I've added a few more references to unreferenced sentences. If you have any further queries, please let me know. Coldupnorth (talk) 20:18, 15 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Conclusion[edit]

  1. It is reasonably well written.
    a (prose): b (MoS for lead, layout, word choice, fiction, and lists):
  2. It is factually accurate and verifiable.
    a (references): b (citations to reliable sources): c (OR):
  3. It is broad in its coverage.
    a (major aspects): b (focused):
  4. It follows the neutral point of view policy.
    Fair representation without bias:
  5. It is stable.
    No edit wars, etc.:
  6. It is illustrated by images, where possible and appropriate.
    a (images are tagged and non-free images have fair use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
  7. Overall:
    Pass/Fail:
I feel like the article has improved significantly over the past few weeks and is ready to be listed as a GA article. Congratulations! Unlimitedlead (talk) 13:21, 17 September 2022 (UTC)[reply]
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