Talk:Building code/Archive 1

Law or "Best Practice"?

(no title was given to this section, so I added it)

NittyG (talk) 07:28, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

I am not sure that a building code is a lawful document, as the opening sentence suggests. I think the code represents 'best practice'. Does anyone have a better understanding? --Commander Keane 13:37, 14 May 2005 (UTC)

In most jurisdictions the building code is given the force of law. A "Code" by definition is a set of laws. The enforcement is usually done by not granting occupancy to a building that doesn't meet the building code. -- Webgeer 23:57, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

How about the building code of England and Wales which specifically says it is not the law and that variation from the code is permitted (nay encouraged) even though it is the national guidance covering those countries? Glenn UK It might also be worth considering that whilst this page is written in English that the term 'code' could be applied to the national code of any country, not just the USA or the UK. therefore reference to any speciifc code should be put into a context and not stated as an absolute sourceGlenn UK (talk) 17:37, 3 February 2009 (UTC)(talk) 17:22, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Building codes become law when they are adopted by a jurisdiction. For example, the International Building Code is a model code written by the International Code Council (ICC), a private organization. The ICC cannot make laws and cannot enforce its code. However, a city, state or other jurisdiction may adopt the code and thereby make it law within that jurisdiction. In general, building codes are considered minimum legal standards, and not necessarily best practices. -- Jiano 20:12, 23 October 2005 (UTC)

The building code is still not law even when adopted by a jurisdiction. The building code is merely adopted by it and is given force of law. In other countries such as Japan and China, construction is covered by laws that contain building code provisions that are not published elsewhere. In the UK the Building Regulations are law, but they do not specify which building code to use. In theory you could use the IBC to design in the UK, although you might have to argue it with the local checking office. --Muchado (talk) 05:01, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Add aspects of building codes concerning roads, towers, radio masts, electricity pylons and other structures!

Most Building Codes do not address roads, towers, etc. As these are not occupied premises they usually are not regulated by a "code" (or set of laws), but instead by design standards . -- Webgeer 23:57, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

"Roads and unoccupied premises are not regulated by building codes." Not true! Unoccupied and occasionally occupied facilities are identified in building codes as "nonbuilding structures" and are subject to the same structural safety regulations that are used for buildings. Surprisingly, roads are also subject to regulation by building codes. The properties of the road such as width, turning radius, and rigidity of pavement are regulated to accomodate and support weight of fire trucks and garbage trucks. Asknine 15:54, 5 June 2006 (UTC)

Late to restarting the question. Is a building code law, or just a set of instructions which if followed will mean the resulting building meets the requirement of the law? Or does it depend on the country in question?

By comparison In the UK, The Highway Code is not the law or a legal document per se. It is a set of rules/behaviours which if followed puts you the right side of the laws and regulations regarding vehicles (and pedestrians) and road use. It interprets and expresses what the law of the land is regarding driving, but only when it says "MUST" or "MUST NOT" in the instructions is it expressing a prescribed method enshrined in law. GraemeLeggett (talk) 20:11, 19 February 2013 (UTC)

proposed merger with International Building Code article

• Yes, the article should be merged together. 206.170.104.63 (talk) 03:20, 29 January 2009 (UTC)

No, the articles should not be merged, international is not only the US, bit like the world series does not include the rest of the world. The IBC is not in fact an international code its written for and by the US. doesn't make it bad, just not international, ISO, CEN or IMO standards for example come closer to being international imho. Glenn UK (talk) 22:08, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

No the articles should not be merged. "International Building Code" is the name of a model building code produced by the International Code Council of the US, and as such should not be confused the the concept of an international building code, which could have its own article (although that one probably should be merged with this one!). So yes, it may seem a little presumptuous for a US organisation to call its product the "International Building Code", but this does reflect the intended applicability of the the product. Perhaps the originators of the EuroCodes were thinking too small! Incidentally, both products are used outside the geographical area that they were originally developed for. --Muchado (talk) 05:01, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

• • No the articles should not be merged - I support the reasons stated above. --Teda13 (talk) 18:28, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

Oppose the article is stand alone and siginificantly used in many statesOttawa4ever (talk) 09:09, 24 November 2009 (UTC)

• • No the articles should not be merged - I also support the reasons stated above. Delafield (talk) 22:56, 3 March 2010 (UTC)

The articles should not be linked, but a summary of each of the various building codes should be added to the general Building Code entry. In addition to the International Building Code by the International Code Council, there is also the Universal Building Code (UBC), the Chicago Building Code, and a variety of others for general building. Added to those are a range of special codes governing Fire Protection (NFPA, UFC, IFC), Electrical, Mechanical Systems, Plumbing, Energy use and many others. They should all be included in the topic "Building Code(s)" but should each have an article of their own. --66.172.105.227 (talk) 16:46, 17 May 2010 (UTC)

• There are just too many articles on building code(s). A merger of some is warranted. Building codes include not just architectural and structureal, but they include mechanical code, plumbing code, electrical code, and others. Ucla90024 (talk) 15:39, 17 August 2010 (UTC)

local requirements

it would be good if references were made to application of codes outside of the country of origin. The codes from the US, UK and Australia specifically are widely used in the middle and far east. Unfortunately many of those applying them have little wit or understanding and simply think hey we are following the code therefore it must be safe. Glenn UK (talk) 17:31, 3 February 2009 (UTC)

Should there be some discussion regarding the adaption of building codes to local conditions. For example, earthquake resistance in Japan and California, and hurricane resistance in Florida. Also, what abou interesting cases of specific building code requirements, such as the fact that Los Angeles, California requires a heliport on all of their skyscrapers, so you could never have a Transamerica Building-style design in LA. ^BlankVerse 10:30, 10 February 2006 (UTC)

I agree. Most jurisdictions who adapt standard codes also adopt amendments to those codes. (Tycobb9999 (talk) 12:49, 24 September 2008 (UTC))

"Should there be some discussion regarding the adaption of building codes to local conditions" The appendix of the National Building Code of Canada code book contains a list of 600 cities/towns and lists the minimum snow load, seismic event conditions, temperature, and rain loads for each of these cities, and also details methods of extrapolation to determine minimum design requirements for buildings outside of the list of 600 cities. In American code books, there is a very similar system. there are regional maps published in each code that tell you what to design to as far as earthquakes, wind speed, foundational permafrost, soil type and many others. Local ordinances, however, are free to publish additional code on top of preexisting code. Their code modifications do not supersede most other codes, and may not contradict preexisting code. -User:EaglePoint

One of the most problematic areas of the application of codes and standards in my view is the application of codes as if they were divine rules which always apply everywhere. Nowhere does this seem more of an issue than in markets other than the US or UK (my experience is in the Middle East and Africa in this respect) where NFPA/BSI codes are applied by engineers, and i use that term with reservations, in areas where the socio-economic factors locally are a mile away from those found in the host countries.

Without an understanding of the underlying assumptions and an ability to review critically local conditions, buildings not only end up with a reduced level of safety, but often end up worse than if the codes had not been applied, simply because when designed to a code the owners/occupiers have a false belief about the ability of their building to perform to the required standards. Glenn UK (talk) 16:52, 12 February 2009 (UTC)

Effects on society

I don't know what to add, but just a note, that maybe this article should have some detail about the effects of building codes - like how strict building codes in recent decades have been a major cause of the homelessness and lack of affordable housing in urban areas of the United States. Peoplesunionpro 16:44, 6 September 2007 (UTC)

This is a more general problem. City centers experience very little rebuilding into higher density accomodation because of building codes and restrictions on building in built up areas. This naturally encourages urban sprawl. What I also note is that it is in the original case the professions who benefited from the code (builders, architects) who promulagated these codes. However, in the fullness of time they have become a bureaucratic bug-bear, with massive State regulation (for example, from the EU) which leads to a great deal of stupidity in building - leading to higher costs, more risk, less construction. My flat for example by law must have all windows with automatic locking, so they cannot, once open partially, be opened further from outside; however, there must also be ONE window in each room which can be opened without hinderance from outside to permit escape from fire. This means my flat, which has two windows per room, must, BY LAW, have one window with a locking type mechanism and the other with a non-locking type mechanism. This is insane. Good principles, utter idiocy when applied universally. Toby Douglass 21:55, 20 September 2007 (UTC)

I think the addition of opinions and conjecture is counter to the purpose of Wikipedia. Further, there is no verification that building codes are a "major cause of homelessness", nor that window locking prescriptives are "insane". The article as written is biased enough without adding this drivel. (Tycobb9999 (talk) 12:52, 24 September 2008 (UTC))

History

A quick Google seems to indicate that "bloodguilt " is more of a curse on your family (or "house" as used here) not a construction hazard. Any biblical scholars out there able to check on this? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.29.211.240 (talk) 17:34, 25 May 2008 (UTC)

Bible in "Building Code" article:

Does it strike anyone else as absurd that the Bible is quoted in this article? I have nothing against the Bible, but it is an irrelevant source in this discussion. I try to take Wikipedia seriously (and it does have some excellent content) but the inclusion of this reference in this context is ridiculous. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 70.109.226.86 (talk) 20:21, 5 October 2008 (UTC)

• No, within the historical section, it is not absurd. This quote is part of the Mosaic Law, binding to the Israelites, therefore it is an early example of building code. -- P199 (talk) 17:45, 27 January 2009 (UTC)

Article is Important; Needs Drastic Expansion!!

How can such an important topic be so dismal? I also added this to the International Code Council article. We need to add, in much more detail - the purpose of building codes, history of codes, and expand every country's section, and probably create new articles such as Building Codes in the United States, and add an "issues with building codes" section.

NittyG (talk) 07:28, 3 November 2011 (UTC)

Wow. Someone please add a section on building code enforcement in the united states? Aquagirlz (talk) 00:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)aquagirlz

Tornado-specific building codes

According to [1] there are no tornado-specific building codes, much as that would make sense. So I removed the claim that this is a common requirement. -- Beland (talk) 04:54, 18 August 2013 (UTC)

Added Canadian information

There seemed to be some questions over the years about the application of codes by region, and outside the USA. I added a summary of codes in Canada (it is much more complicated). Perhaps this could, some day, be expanded into a dedicated section. In any case, the Canadian summary was my first edit. I'm certainly interested in your feedback. Regards! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Gnurob (talk • contribs) 19:25, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

Discussion on Reverting Edit Citation

This article needs additional citations for verification -- Wikipedia

The citation revision 698268835 by Special:Contributions/Ronz was reverted. The reason for the removal of the citation was unreliable source, however the content was maintained. Is it an unreliable source, or not? After careful consideration of conflict of interest guidelines, self publication recommendations, SPAM, and paid-contribution disclosure, the revision was undone.

Wikimedia allows using material you have written or published and is allowed within reason, but only if it is relevant, conforms to the content policies and is not excessive. The inclusion of information on Canadian building codes is very relevant to this page, and provided information that noticeably absent. Furthermore, the content is difficult to find concisely stated in a single article: as trivial as it may be, and was based on a primary research of legislation in Canadian provides. In other words, if a better source exists, please use it, until then, this citation was good enough to keep the content, and does provide a benefit to readers.

Certainly, if I ever share such a link in the future, I will used the Talk page in advance. However, I believe that may be extremely unlikely, and I have put future plans to edit WP on hold.

Gnurob (talk) 05:18, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Wait. You're appear to be saying you wrote the material on robertmiller.ca? Could you please clarify? --Ronz (talk) 15:57, 9 January 2016 (UTC)

Don't Remove a Citation and Keep the Content

Are Wikipedia editors reading the Talk pages or making edits without due consideration?

This article needs additional sources and unsourced material should be removed. It is absolutely incredible that a contribution be retained while removing the citation. For more information, please read this.

Therefore, I have removed the unsourced contribution: In Canada, national model codes are published by the National Research Council of Canada, and then adopted, in whole or part; or copied and modified; by each province or territory.

By all means, if you can find this information somewhere else, go ahead and add the content along with the source. However, you will find as I did, that it is not easy to be found. The result: no discussion on Canada.

Another frustrating day for new contributors.

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List of building codes?

The title is "Building Code", but the sections about "current codes" have nothing more than "energy" codes. Shouldn't there be also be a list of currently adopted national codes, such as "IBC" (International Building Code), plumbing code, electrical code, mechanical code, residential code, as a minimum, or links to country-specific codes? Also, historical codes may apply to existing structures: Uniform Building Code, National Code, Standard Building Code, etc. Lupinelawyer (talk) 14:36, 17 December 2018 (UTC)

"Building control" listed at Redirects for discussion

A discussion is taking place to address the redirect Building control. The discussion will occur at Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion/Log/2021 December 20#Building control until a consensus is reached, and readers of this page are welcome to contribute to the discussion. Chumpih. (talk) 06:59, 20 December 2021 (UTC)