Talk:British Rail Mark 4

Mk 4 SLEP ?

are Nightstar (train) stock not mk4 sleeper stock ??? 91.111.96.72 (talk) 16:08, 19 September 2008 (UTC)

2010 'Refurbishment'

This section mentions refurbishment but goes onto to say the coaches will have a new livery when the bogies are overhauled. Is a re-livery a refurbishment? If panels were replaced or features added or removed I would say the unit was refurbished. Would it be better to title this section as '2010 re-livery' or '2010 repaint'? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.164.124.3 (talk) 16:54, 30 June 2010 (UTC)

Seating Capacity

How many seats? i.e. How many tonnes per bum? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.133.220.188 (talk) 16:26, 1 December 2010 (UTC)

Are DVTs considered coaches for the purposes of counting Mark 4s?

It says within the existing content that there are 302 Mk 4 coaches, operating as 30 rakes of 9. Are the remaining 32 representative of the 32 mk 4 DVTs? If so, I'd suggest this needs clarifying, with either further description or overview of Mk 4 DVTs, or with the quoted number of Mk 4 coaches being shown as 270 rather than 302. ClivePIA (talk) 06:00, 8 July 2012 (UTC)

DVTs are "non-passenger carrying coaching stock", which is why they're numbered in the 80000-99999 block and have TOPS design codes in the N group. By contrast, hauled passenger coaches are numbered below 50000 and have design codes in the A group. But DVTs 82200-31 were built with the passenger-carrying Mark 4 fleet, share many of their design features, and have always operated with them.

I do think that the "number built" figure of 302 is inaccurate, because 282 passenger-carrying coaches were built - if the 32 DVT be added, we get 314. The original numbering was as follows:

Lot no.	Numbers	Design code	Quantity	Notes
31043	82200-31	NZ502	32
31045	10300-33	AJ105	34
31046	11200-63	AD111	64
	11272-6		5	11264-71 cancelled
31047	12200-31	AI201	32	12221 converted to 12405 (2nd)
31048	12300-30	AL201	31
31049	12400-89	AC214	90	12405 (1st) completed as 12232
	12513-38		26	12490-512 cancelled
Total			314

There are gaps in the original numbering sequence at 11264-71 and 12490-512: these 31 coaches were cancelled between ordering and construction. Another anomaly is that there have been two coaches numbered 12405 - the first was converted to become 12232 (which is not in the table above), and the bodyshell which had been intended for 12221 was completed as the second no. 12405.

In subsequent years, 84 further coaches have been converted and renumbered, taking nos. 11277-95/8/9, 11301-30, 11401-30, 11998/9, 12331 - this accounts for the present (1 January 2012) gaps at 10314/6, 11200/2-12/4-8/20-3/5-8/30-6/8-40/2/3/5-63/72/4-6, 12408/16/8/35/51/75/9/82/7, 12517/21/3/4/7-32/5-7. The gaps at 11296/7 are because these were the intended numbers for the two actually renumbered 11998/9.

The remaining gaps are due to withdrawal - as of 1 January 2012, twelve have been withdrawn: these were two of the coaches derailed at Hatfield in October 2000 (12314, 10327) and all ten involved in the Great Heck Rail Crash in February 2001 (82221, 11224, 11213, 10322, 12306, 12525, 12516, 12412, 12413, 12206). If we subtract these 12 from the 314 built, we get 302. --Redrose64 (talk) 16:24, 8 July 2012 (UTC)