Talk:Baba Vanga

Biography assessment rating comment

The article may be improved by following the WikiProject Biography 11 easy steps to producing at least a B article. --KenWalker | Talk 04:13, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Neutral point of view

I am from Romania and I know from my own experience that Baba Vanga did only good things for the people who asked for help. Her power was to see the problems of the peoples who asked for help and to advice them on how to manage their missfortune and to continue their lifes. I asked her once to help me, in 1993 and she gave me the solution! He proved me that she saw the past and the future as well. She told me straight: your life must go on! Forget the problem you have now! She gived me a goal in my life and now me and my family are well due to her. I swear she never knew what was my problem before I met her but she could tell me about my troubles and, what it is more important, almost a miracle, she adviced me what is to be done in order to continue my life. I will be in Petrich on March 25,26 and I hope I will find her or her spirit again in/around Rupite. Good help me to be there and thank to Baba Vanga for what I have and I am now!

Why POV section? I just added Yuri Gorny's opinion about Gushterova, Gorny is quite respectant person and I think his opinion is worth reading too. I added a source too. If you think all facts desribed in the first sections are real then just add some reliable sources. For predictions, please include newspaper publications dated earlier than the events predicted.

Anyway, thanks for clearing pronunciation of Bulgarian "щ". I'll edit Russian version too. Abolen 10:56, 28 March 2006 (UTC)

I think the POV tag was added because that section is written in a very "definite" tone. I believe it would be better to start it with, "Some claim that ..." to emphasize that these are just theories. Actually, the main section suffers from the same problem, only in the other direction. I think this makes the page very confusing to read, because the first section talks about her abilities as factual, while the "Criticism" section talks about the alternate theories as factual. The entire page needs to be made more consistent.

Furthermore, the first section should probably be broken up into subsections such as "History", "Claims", etc.

Anton Markov 06:20, 9 April 2006 (UTC)

Gushterova's government service is a factual thing. I saw the price list with my own eyes when visiting Bulgaria in 1989, but it is not humble to put this fact into the article :) There also was a Bulgarian movie about Gushterova in which these facts were mentioned too, but I cannot find its title om IMDB.

When talking about cheating I specially mentioned that it's Yuri Gorny's opinion and added a source (his interview). The rest of the article is actually a brief translation of the interview. As for me, I think Gushterova was a charlatan, but it's just my (and Gorny's) opinion. For obvious reasons Gushterova's false predictions are consigned to oblivion. Gorny's experiment had shown that cheating did take place, but it's not possible to tell now how often.

As for the first section, it is translation of Natalia Baltzun's article from http://www.peoples.ru . There was a whole bunch of such articles in Soviet magazines of late 80's. It's a typical article that tells only about predictions that came true, neither describing false predictions, nor trying to conduct an experiment, collect statistics and so on. With lack of information, I do not know how to rewrite the article. Abolen 13:25, 10 April 2006 (UTC)

I'm not absolutely sure, but I think this is the film you looked for: Fenomenat (1977). Unfortunately, the info at IMDb in too scarce. --Cameltrader 09:07, 17 August 2006 (UTC)

Unsigned comment

I am from Macedonia Strumica my mother useto do baba Vangas here and the storys i have herd from my mother it is very hard not to beleve i regret the fackt that i have never seen baba Vanga because my mother didnot whant to take me with here to see so i dident get scered i was a kid at the time. Every scar on my dads body,baba Vanga told him how and when it hapend and she has helped whith family thru problems.Wee had mony mising from are hows she wold not say hoo toke it but she said that he will regret it and that he will return it an that is what hapend. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 58.165.139.158 (talk • contribs)

Prophecies

This article does not mention her prophecies on a distant future that turned out to be true, like a prophecy on Kursk submarine. Netrat_msk (talk) 20:59, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

If you have a reliable source, please add them. --Cameltrader (talk) 22:02, 28 March 2008 (UTC)

One widely acclaimed prophecy which was many times showed on russian television in special report about Vanga was about the Future of Europe. As mentioned in the report - Vanga proclaimed that "Europe will be empty of people by year 2014th" - this is very interesting considering the current economical crisis in Europe Union. At the same time she said that Russia will have very bright future with it's unlimited natural resources base and the new capital in old place - Saint Petersburg (Moscow is current capital). Westsomething (talk) 01:23, 17 November 2011 (UTC)

Well that didn't age too well... 142.213.178.23 (talk) 14:23, 28 March 2022 (UTC)

Bulgarian?

Can we say with any certainty that she was ethnically Bulgarian? --Hegumen (talk) 14:15, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

What else could she be? --Laveol ^T 15:09, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Oh, I mean, what else besides any nonsense I feel you'll try to introduce. She self-identified as Bulgarian, was born as Bulgarian and was identified as such by every single source (besides the one I guess you'll cite and that for some reason come from a specific country in South-Eastern Europe). --Laveol ^T 15:20, 23 June 2008 (UTC)

Whoa, calm down. I'd just like to see her "self-identification as Bulgarian" properly sourced. That's all. It's a controversial topic as you well know. --Hegumen (talk) 15:03, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

That's exactly what I meant - it is not controversial. It could be for some ultranationalist, irredentist and so on persons. Bulgarian means Bulgarian whatever those guys like to think. --Laveol ^T 15:24, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Btw as I look at it there are enough sources in the Sources section - do you need inline citations? Feel free to add them yourself :) --Laveol ^T 15:36, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

В отговор на въпроса дали България и Република Македония пак ще бъдат заедно, Ванга казва: „Там, дека е текло, пак ке тече“ и „Един народ — една държава“. Отношението си към Република Македония Ванга изразява в две изречения: „Македония е българска земя. Тя не е държава, а част от българската територия.“ [1][2] [3]Jingby (talk) 17:17, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Now, that's something worth mentioning :)) --Laveol ^T 17:20, 24 June 2008 (UTC)

Good work, Jingby. --Hegumen (talk) 15:24, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

Why did you write his username like that? Did you mean to tell him something? --Laveol ^T 15:29, 26 June 2008 (UTC)

I just copied/pasted it like that, relax. --Hegumen (talk) 03:30, 29 June 2008 (UTC)

If you listen to Baba Vanga's predictions, you will hear that she speaks clear Macedonian dialect from the Strumica region. The same dialect is used today by the people who live in that region. The only fact that she is born there makes her nothing diffrent that any other Macedonian born in Strumica. She is Macedonian woman who got married and died in Bulgaria. Anyone who denies these facts also denies the ethnicity of all Macedonians, who define themselves by those criteria like language, ancestry, origin and it can't be realised like serious historian. Don't forget the fact that, I quote: Her speech was difficult to distinguish and she spoke a heavy dialect (recent TV recordings used subtitles for the Bulgarian audience). (closed quotation.) Her speech is easy understandable to all Macedonians without any necessity of subtitle! Having these facts in mind, we must carefully make articles on wikipedia —Preceding unsigned comment added by 77.29.238.210 (talk) 20:06, 29 September 2008 (UTC)

What you are saying is true. Vanga's ancestors were in fact closer to the ancestors of today's Strumitsa people, than the bulgarians living in Burgas, for example. But that means that The people of Strumitsa have bulgarian ancestors, even though they don't feel bulgarians now. For example, a person who was born and raised in Kosovo when it was part of Serbia was an ethnic albanian and his nationality was albanian, although he hasn't lived in Albania. But his grandchildren, or their grandchildren, will live in a country named Kosovo and won't feel albanian, their nationality will be kosovar. But by no means does this mean that their grandfather wasn't albanian. What are you saying, that if his grandchildren went to the USA and became american, this means that he was american also!? If anything, it means that they're albanians. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Atanas tsankov (talk • contribs) 17:13, 26 July 2010 (UTC)

List of alleged prophecies

I've removed again the list of alleged prophecies - this time it was sourced, but not only the source itself appears to be not reliable, the author admits that "the article, and all of the predictions you just saw here, were translated from a Russian Newspaper Article, therefore it’s impossible to find out whether this article is credible or simply a sensationalism driven hoax…" --Daggerstab (talk) 16:08, 5 November 2008 (UTC)

The gate at Sergii is in bulgaria. Meaning bulgaria will fail. Russia is now called union, that is correct, because the european union or europe is made from russia which is technically the start of civilization in europe. Russia is once again Russia. 4 heads of state die, meaning they it could be mistranslated to attempts, 2008 was a key year for assassination attempts made on heads-of-state. 1. Barak obama (unlikely carried out) 2. East Timor president and 3. prime minister (very close and IN INDONESIA) 4. Tony Blair attempt (not close). All these are presidents and prime ministers affiliated from or in the middle-east. This round can change drastically before another pole shift or 'tilt' so 5000 or 3000 as a periodic end seems correct (although 5000 would be impossible or a biblical exaggeration for the end of life because 5000 is around the corner in terms of earth's history). The Occult becoming a religion is credible because its so far the most accurate in terms of world history and earth surpassing even science in credibility. So far, all her predictions are coming to realization, Iran is obtaining nuclear arms, India has been in constant wars and has already started a chain reaction in sir lanka, so 2010 seems like a date I am looking out for. As for legitimacy, it could have been written after certain dates, there could have been a plethora of predictions not mentioned, everything could be a hoax.--66.81.42.146 (talk) 20:24, 3 May 2010 (UTC)

Possible Hoax

I have never yet seen a location where her "Future Prophecies" were ever cited besides the internet. Are we 100% that she honestly made those predictions? I mean, some of them seem REALLY far fetched. "Humans will become robots." What? Source and we'll remove the hoax template. --LukeScalone (talk) 02:58, 28 November 2010 (UTC)

I'm With you man, something fishy about this one, she lived to be 85 yet do we have her on video mentioning any of these predictions or are they all second hand from communist government run newspapers. — Preceding unsigned comment added by ChesterTheWorm (talk • contribs) 00:34, 25 May 2011 (UTC)

I have read and heard about the subject. The whole story developed by Mrs. Gushterova and her followers is a hoax. Wikipedia should be a scientific encyclopaedia. She could have collaborated with the secret service at this time to provide and gather information about her subjects. Secret service archives are probably lost or destroyed by now. I am not aware of any controlled experiment asserting the extraordinary abilities of Mrs. Gushterova. All her speech lacks clarity and precision and can be interpreted by believers to mean almost anything. 2601:647:C803:4840:C8D1:E0C0:8126:D7CE (talk) 04:09, 30 March 2017 (UTC)

Assasination attempts and Nostradamus

Vanga mentions the 44rth president being black, she also mentions the 4 asssasination attempts on headofstate. 1.) qaddafi (own guards kill him) 2.) erdogan (the failed coup attempt) 3.) trump (the failed gunman) 4.) karlov, ambassador of russia (suceeded hitman). Nostradamus mentions the word mabus, could this correlate to Ray Mabus, head of the US Navy? Afterall it was the US navy that destroyed the airbase in syria with a cause of war. The blatant act of agression against another military power. He mentions the year 7 (2017?) being very relevant. They also mention the prince. Something to do with trump. I hope this helps on material for future edits. Karlov and trump can be misplaced with Kim Jong Un, qaddafi, erdogan, yakonovych as of late from an eastern political view. The correlation of ww3 with baba vanga is uncanny. Infact muslims did invade europe in 2016 with a great migrant crisis. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 69.255.30.97 (talk) 23:07, 17 April 2017 (UTC)

Topalov

Bulgarian chess master Topalov never became a world champion as claimed in the article. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 78.188.176.219 (talk) 08:08, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

He was world champion in 2005. And lost the title the following year. End of the story. --Laveol ^T 08:37, 8 September 2011 (UTC)

Characterization of the birthplace

In the summary, the birthplace should be characterized as being in the Bulgarian-populated part of Turkey or something along those lines, since "ancient Bulgaria" simply sounds strange (and unclear).—172.56.18.46 (talk) 07:34, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

"Second annexation"?

The beginning of the "Life" section has "the second Bulgarian annexation of the region"; which region is that?

(By the way, I don't know that the 1941–1944 occupation was an annexation, but let's leave that aside for now.)

—172.56.18.46 (talk) 07:59, 7 June 2014 (UTC)

Low-quality article

This entire article suffers from a lack of citations to reliable sources, and generally unencyclopedic tone at many parts. It needs some serious attention if it is to stick around. --V2Blast (talk) 06:50, 30 August 2014 (UTC)

Yeah. 174.4.162.2 (talk) 13:27, 18 September 2014 (UTC)

The top part says that she was taught to read braille then a later section says that she was illiterate. One of those is obviously incorrect.

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just added archive links to 3 external links on Baba Vanga. Please take a moment to review my edit. If necessary, add {{cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{nobots|deny=InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150511235757/http://www.theastralworld.com:80/prophecies/babavanga.php to http://www.theastralworld.com/prophecies/babavanga.php
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20150727021514/http://www.sofiaecho.com:80/article/notes-from-history-baba-vanga/id_13025/catid_64 to http://www.sofiaecho.com/article/notes-from-history-baba-vanga/id_13025/catid_64
• Added archive https://web.archive.org/20110122060312/http://www.babavanga-predictions.com:80/baba-vanga/baba-vanga-2012.html to http://www.babavanga-predictions.com/baba-vanga/baba-vanga-2012.html

When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the checked parameter below to true to let others know.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—^{cyberbot II}_{Talk to my owner:Online} 10:18, 13 February 2016 (UTC)

Comment

I first became aware of Baba Vanga when I saw the wave of media coverage of her prediction about Barack Obama being the last US president. At the time, all the coverage simply ended there, and there was no source locatable anywhere for her predicting anything about what would happen next — only after the US election date last year did the "messianic bringer of peace" prediction suddenly start materializing; even on a Google search, that prediction completely fails to exist in any source published anytime prior to November 11, 2016. Even just one day earlier, that prediction was nowhere to be found, and the media were randomly speculating about what the Obama prediction might mean in light of the fact that a non-Obama election had just taken place. And even on the actual "official" Baba Vanga website, I can't seem to find any indication anywhere of it claiming that she ever actually made either prediction.

So, my question: is there really properly sourced evidence for her saying either of these things in reality, or does the idea of a dead psychic seer just provide a convenient pretext for people to start making up whatever idea they want to propagate into her mouth, since she isn't alive to contradict it, and the media just blindly pass on any new "prediction" that comes along without actually investigating whether there's any evidence that she ever actually said it? Bearcat (talk) 04:13, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

I will try and look for something, but I am rather sceptical that there is even a single reliable source about any of her alleged clairvoyance. --Laveol ^T 09:13, 15 March 2017 (UTC)

Low-quality information

Just under the "Work" section, it said that Vanga "[showed] very right-wing, reactionary and xenophobic tendencies." However the source for this is not only obviously biased, but also not actually talking about Vanga, the article is talking about Vanya, who is being a medium to speak to Vanga's spirit. To make claims that Vanga is "very right-wing, reactionary and xenophobic" on the basis of a very shoddy source is inappropriate for this article. I removed the line, unless someone can prove that weight is due and that there are reliable sources proving Vanga was "right-wing." — Preceding unsigned comment added by EmperorJimmu (talk • contribs) 05:06, 14 April 2017 (UTC)

Ancient Indian doctrine of White Brotherhood

White Brotherhood laterally translates to a word Pandava - पांडव in Sanskrit! They are the antagonists in the ancient poem - Mahabharata - महाभारत. Which is also the largest/longest poem in the world.

Kountilya (talk) 01:52, 10 August 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Baba Vanga. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20110622081334/http://theastralworld.com/prophecies/babavanga.php to http://www.theastralworld.com/prophecies/babavanga.php

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 11:05, 3 December 2017 (UTC)

External links modified

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified one external link on Baba Vanga. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

• Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20160111110824/http://bnt.bg/part-of-show/za-vanga-i-vangeliya to http://bnt.bg/part-of-show/za-vanga-i-vangeliya

When you have finished reviewing my changes, you may follow the instructions on the template below to fix any issues with the URLs.

This message was posted before February 2018. After February 2018, "External links modified" talk page sections are no longer generated or monitored by InternetArchiveBot. No special action is required regarding these talk page notices, other than regular verification using the archive tool instructions below. Editors have permission to delete these "External links modified" talk page sections if they want to de-clutter talk pages, but see the RfC before doing mass systematic removals. This message is updated dynamically through the template {{source check}} (last update: 18 January 2022).

• If you have discovered URLs which were erroneously considered dead by the bot, you can report them with this tool.
• If you found an error with any archives or the URLs themselves, you can fix them with this tool.

Cheers.—InternetArchiveBot (Report bug) 22:10, 1 January 2018 (UTC)

About the miracle deniers

In the "work" section, paragraph 2, there are a lot of questions (who? where? which?) about the Bulgarian sources who minimize or deny the prophets that Vanga claimed to have. In https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Baba_Vanga there's a link to an article in the Bulgarian newspaper '24 chasa', that includes these kind of things. If you haven't noticed, I'm totally not a wiki expert, so I ask someone that is an expert to take car of it... sorry.

The link to the Bulgarian article is in this rationalwiki I mentioned before, footnote no. 3.

Thanks everybody.

29.8.

Irrelevant transliteration to non-related Macedonian language

@Kromid: Vangeliya Gushterova was a Bulgarian born in the Ottoman Empire, lived in the Kingdom of Serbia, Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Slovenes, Kingdom of Yugoslavia, Kingdom of Bulgaria, Peoples Republic of Bulgaria and Republic of Bulgaria. In none of the states above the Macedonian language was official. How is this language related to her? She's neither Macedonian nor ever lived in a state where this language is or was official. Based on what Kromid you add this language? Based on the fact that she was born on the territory of a geographical region that has the same name as the language or on something else? --StanProg (talk) 16:20, 27 August 2020 (UTC)

She was born in the region of what is now North Macedonia and her native dialect would have been a part of the western dialects of the East South Slavic dialect continuum - i.e closer to Macedonian despite the standard not existing at the time.Kromid (talk) 02:48, 28 August 2020 (UTC)

I have decided against this, I no longer support adding the Macedonian translation. Kromid (talk) 00:29, 2 September 2020 (UTC)

Nationality on Passport - removal of relevant sources

I noticed in the history there was an edit that had the following source which was deleted with a poor explanation (i.e "not an improvement"). The context of the source was that she had "Macedonian" listed as her nationality in her passport. I expect some meaningful reasoning on the removal of this sourced material. Kromid (talk) 01:26, 29 August 2020 (UTC)

@Kromid: A Wordpress blog and a Facebook page post do not qualify as trustworthy sources. --James Richards (talk) 23:14, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

@Jamesrichards12345:, OK. is a better source. Kromid (talk) 23:43, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

It literally says in your 'source' "according to the Facebook status posted on the "Macedonian Diaspora" page. Baba Vangja was born on October 3, 1911 in Strumica, spent most of her life in the Rupite area of ​​Mount Kozuf in Pirin Macedonia, and died on August 11, 1996 in Sofia."

You realize that when she was born Strumica was still part of Bulgaria and according to Dimitri Mishev and D. M. Brancoff, La Macédoine et sa Population Chrétienne, p. 158 according to the geographers Dimitri Mishev and D. M. Brancoff. 1905 had a total Christian population of 22.860, consisting of 12.736 Exarchist Bulgarians, 8.992 Patriarchist Bulgarians, 624 Protestant Bulgarians, 444 Roma people, 25 Greeks and 6 Vlachs. Also let's imagine that this source is real and trustworthy, how are you going to infer what Macedonian means? After all Macedonian has multiple meanings, how are you going to prove that it means ethnic Macedonian rather than a regional identifier. --James Richards (talk) 23:46, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

How does the second Wordpress site that you sent me count as a trustworthy source? Just because they have more likes on their Facebook page? It is just a Macedonian interpretation of her passport, I just Google Translated a few articles from Bulgarian and Macedonian websites and the Bulgarians see this as evidence that she saw herself as a Bulgarian from Macedonian or Macedonian Bulgarians while Macedonians see her as an ethnic Macedonian. We can't choose interpretations but what is for certain is that she was born in Bulgaria and had a Bulgarian citizenship. I am indifferent to adding the Macedonian language translation but I don't support adding Macedonian nationality.--James Richards (talk) 23:57, 30 August 2020 (UTC)

I am not pushing to replace her nationality with Macedonian as I whole wholeheartedly believe that this is not a black or white matter, but I am trying to highlight the complexity in her identity. I am leaning toward using "Macedonian Bulgarian" in the lead as that seems to be most neutral. As for the validity of sources, there is nothing to condemn Wordpress sites and there are tones of citation in Balkan articles that lead to dubious Balkan media outlets, and if your not satisfied one can use which is one the bigger news outlets in North Macedonia. Anyway one thing is clear, she listed Macedonian as her nationality, how to interpret that is another matter, but I think "Macedonian Bulgarian" should do justice to the source. Kromid (talk) 00:46, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

But doesn't Macedonian Bulgarian just mean Bulgarian so what's the difference? It is seems to me that you always use the statement of 'it's not a black and white matter' when you have no quality evidence to prove your claims/beliefs. There is no evidence that there is any debate over her nationality, even on the Macedonian wikipedia page it has her listed as Bulgarian. You as a Macedonian should know that the term has many different meanings and most of those are not related to the modern ethnic Macedonian term. And what I mean by Wordpress blogs is that they are small sites that anyone can make and post whatever they want whether true or not, you cited a post from a Facebook page with 5000 followers, and two sites that receive less than 1000 visits per month. The only notable publication you cited is Vecer.mk and the post is an opinion article that cites no reputable sources to back up its claims. --James Richards (talk) 01:51, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Also it is very interesting to me that you only make your points using Macedonian 'sources'. I am assuming that you are not here to push an agenda so please take into account all sources and evidence. --James Richards (talk) 01:57, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

The Vecer.mk source, at the very least is still valid. Please have a look at how many sources direct to Greek or Bulgarian news outlets that paint their points of view, however I don't question their validity as long as they don't get undue weight. I may not have evidence for my claims which are basically trivial (ethnicity and national belonging is highly fluid, especially in the Balkans at this stage in time), but you don't either solid evidence to universally qualify Macedonian means Bulgarian for this time period, specifically in this case, but that is not my point. A valid source is a valid source and given it's relevance to the topic, it needs representation without undue weight in this article. (Btw please use ':' for responses, so I can keep better track of discussion, thanks) Kromid (talk) 02:57, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Interesting article, I think a mention here is warranted and not giving undue weight. --Local hero ^talk 03:18, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

My proposal for mention with undue weight is having "Macedonian Bulgarian" in the lead, and simple Bulgarian can remain as nationality in infobox. This is enough to highlight fluidity in self-designation. Kromid (talk) 04:46, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

@Kromid: Ok I agree to the proposal above and I am indifferent to the language addition. --James Richards (talk) 04:52, 31 August 2020 (UTC) (Withdrawn support and instead take an indifferent position following Jingiby comment. Will stay out of discussion due to lack of knowledge about topics such as Macedonization.--James Richards (talk) 18:14, 31 August 2020 (UTC))

But I think it will be best to wait a bit for other users actively editing the page to voice their opinion (StanProg etc) --James Richards (talk) 04:54, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

I agree to await other opinions. I kinda change my mind on the language addition, I don't see it as being necessary enough when thinking about it - 1.) it makes the lead uglier and 2.) she spent most of her life in what is now Bulgaria. Kromid (talk) 05:49, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

Vanga was recorded as a Macedonian by nationality during the so-called Macedonization in Bulgaria. This happened with all the locals in Pirin Macedonia in the period 1946 - 1958. Then the Bulgarian communists decided that this was a mistake and all were re-registered as Bulgarians, as by all censuses before 1946. Otherwise, this woman has stated that Macedonia is Bulgarian land and has predicted that it will become part of Bulgaria again. But that's another topic. Otherwise, Vanga has never said that she is Macedonian by nationality and at least I do not know that there is a serious source to say something like that, except some pseudo-historian propagandists in NM.Jingiby (talk) 18:05, 31 August 2020 (UTC)

That being said, would you support Macedonian Bulgarian being used in the lead? Kromid (talk) 09:46, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I do not object. Jingiby (talk) 20:39, 1 September 2020 (UTC)

I don't agree that we should have Baba Vanga listed as Macedonian Bulgarian as she is more famous as simply Bulgarian. After all it means the same thing, I don't believe in supporting the conspiracy theories that she was an ethnic Macedonian. --StoyanStoyanov80 (talk) 14:04, 9 November 2020 (UTC)

Macedonian Bulgarian =/= ethnic Macedonian. There is still a 2:1 consensus for using "Macedonian Bulgarian".

I know it's not the same thing, she is just better known as simply Bulgarian. --StoyanStoyanov80 (talk) 04:09, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

In some documentations she identified as "Macedonian". Forced or not - "Macedonian Bulgarian" better highlights that complexity. Kromid (talk) 07:37, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

In one documentation* during the Macedonization campaign, her father identified as a Bulgarian, even though she grew up outside of Bulgaria her family was harassed by the Serbs for being Bulgarophiles, during WW2 she moved to Bulgaria willingly with her husband who was a Bulgarian soldier and she also predicted that Macedonia (now N. Macedonia) will reunite with Bulgaria. There is no complexity in this situation. --StoyanStoyanov80 (talk) 17:28, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Kromid, by this logic Kiro Gligorov, Lazar Kolishevski, Mihajlo Apostolski, Ljubcho Georgievski etc. are Macedonian Bulgarians. Jingiby (talk) 18:43, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

Per the page on "Macedonian Bulgarians",

Macedonians[3] or Macedonian Bulgarians[4] (Bulgarian: македонци or македонски българи), sometimes also referred to as Macedono-Bulgarians[5] or Macedo-Bulgarians,[6] are a regional, ethnographic group of ethnic Bulgarians,..

It's obvious from this that Kiro Gligorov, Lazar Kolishevski, Mihajlo Apostolski, Ljubcho Georgievski do not fit that definition. Kromid (talk) 01:55, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

We know the official definition, the point was that you Kromid said "In some documentations she identified as "Macedonian". Forced or not - "Macedonian Bulgarian" better highlights that complexity." in which they would fit in your definition. --StoyanStoyanov80 (talk) 08:47, 13 November 2020 (UTC)

References

Birthday

There seems to be a debate on what her actual birthday was. Was it January 31 or October 3?2600:100C:A202:C26F:2178:E63D:EFE3:2B1 (talk) 08:43, 10 March 2022 (UTC)

We don't know this. 103.16.24.173 (talk) 15:50, 31 March 2023 (UTC)

A Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion

The following Wikimedia Commons file used on this page or its Wikidata item has been nominated for deletion:

• Vanga.jpg

Participate in the deletion discussion at the nomination page. —Community Tech bot (talk) 19:08, 1 May 2023 (UTC)

Sources

I can find absolutely no source material for the "prediction" about 9/11. It supposedly was "The American brethren will fall after being attacked by the steel birds. The wolves will be howling in a bush, and innocent blood will be gushing."

This smacks of similar hoax-y stuff that were prevalent just post-9/11 and sometimes attributed to Nostradamus.

Given that there is no real written record of so many of these, the article comes across more as a catalogue of internet-propagated myths than an actual account of her prophecies. 2603:7000:33F0:D20:C0BA:5930:5414:E6BB (talk) 04:34, 8 June 2023 (UTC)

I agree.

Also, they are adding more predictions every new year, and with every new prediction that turned it out false, they they attribute that it was a false prediction and Baba never said that.

Predictions just appears from thin air and later they are attributed to Baba without saying when she predicted it and which follower write it.

I tried to find any source and the only one was 4chan. :-/ 190.100.245.177 (talk) 01:52, 19 June 2023 (UTC)

Baba Vanga: Passport says Macedonian, "I am in Macedonia"

Baba Vanga was born in Strumica, Macedonia but moved to Bulgaria. In her BG passport she is mentioned as Macedonian. In the passport it clearly says Македонка (Macedonian) and her real date of birth. You CANNOT deny that she listed herself as nationality MACEDONIAN. I know this is a very complex identity and topic so to make it more neutral, we should make her a Macedonian Bulgarian, because she is NOT 100% Bulgarian! [4] Go to Youtube and check out this Bulgarian documentary where Baba Vanga HERSELF says "аз см у Македония" - "I am in Macedonia", which implies that Macedonia did infact exist back then as it's own! Type on Youtube - ФЕНОМЕН (1976) (Документален филм за Баба Ванга, реж. Невена Тошева). Go to @41:46 to see that. Andrew012p (talk) 17:18, 25 December 2023 (UTC)

Hi Andrew012p, not that I have anything against your idea, but the theses presented by you are baseless. Firstly, Vanga was born in 1911 in Strumica, then in the Ottoman Empire. The first country to which this settlement was annexed after the expulsion of the Ottoman Empire from Europe in 1912 and was ceded in 1913 was Bulgaria. Strumica became part of (North) Macedonia only in 1991. Secondly, the passport issued to Vanga, where she is listed as a Macedonian was the result of a temporary administrative measures set there by the Bulgarian communist authorities after WWII. According to your logic, personalities who played a key role in the post-WWII Macedonian nation-building such as Lazar Kolishevski, Mihailo Apostolski, etc. are Macedonian Bulgarians, because they declared themselves as Bulgarians and had Bulgarian passports during WWII. Last but not least, part of Macedonia is in Bulgaria since 1913, and this is what Grandma Vanga means. Moreover, the entire region of Macedonia was a target of Bulgarian nationalism before the occurrence of clear Macedonian identity and distinct Macedonian state and language themselves. Greetings. Jingiby (talk) 06:07, 26 December 2023 (UTC)